From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 10 13:04:40 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0289A40511 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 13:04:40 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm1-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm1-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.236.27]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5327F4041C for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 13:02:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.94.237.195] by nm1.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2013 19:59:45 -0000 Received: from [98.139.221.64] by tm6.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2013 19:59:45 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp101.rog.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2013 19:59:45 -0000 s=s1024; t=1357847985; bh=je9sH9lajmnNoMcub0XuZKCW3WaXTZTM5rcv8t6N7hg=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Reply-To:From:To:Cc:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:Organization:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:Content-Language; b=Hrr/ygAc/ELlCg0lsdm0mm/GPuVd4B65OGC5FV9IkhtRdvPRL00ENfmRATe8lDDIvy3oqWxzCpCG+WrZZtohHdwbl0cV9FZZWobZGVDD/j8Q0m3V+S2Qf4eRwY3IXXAt5JEuJsBBkcPSGnzQP/x+iUG+wCUwA2D/G/5ERh5Sp3E= HX47dZB0dM4MIpOOeio_n79rMMhUR_4BSt.yKomJx.P9g1STC6KN5v7aFR8M Q35JnU8zt6CUKF91IVZ8wVyYB7vhMeeEunsfvOE3no1SJw5xn4n2dz0x7M42 q4rWIV8GgJKNBkMQGeYDa9PnemFZqI2Te4_zpZHIigPPGfppGhrAwEdR7mhL mPQIDFyiUI1.093UnvoCWY3e.efKqGXFQ8XPxQTb6.hr6TA4Ztq7tEqq9vzz j_V8fHVTqs36X8nV5G84Otg8TTLK9YXsyZeCCTZ8M3Y1J40ylMp82DSpTFWb oEE92hLbiWf7RkVAq_ddwG8Y5UvHjO0LNGORJWLRzsf96QB.q5uLDd39H3q1 XC6jHiqgoIUyQoK67do9tfDhTDRFLrFDLxwikuG04TXAUvbCLUjJKs7nA53q 2_wN3yCE0YiHVzkoA5xBr31TU9TfGGtys_aT0qvx.7u4_p_tIWy4QKQnIW9f JnVMzQ_dWXbjRS2j3kyQPMrsW Received: from ProMedia (DJFidler@99.240.105.77 with login) by smtp101.rog.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2013 11:59:45 -0800 PST From: "David Fidler" To: "'Dave More'" , "'Timothy Holbrook'" References: <1356563886.70654.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <56C5FB52-8598-4594-B6B2-49056894BA1C@lbcs.ca> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 14:59:22 -0500 Organization: ProMedia Thread-Index: Ac3jwFOinB5f4uOpRBGJaiuhLsxOiALrBSQQ Content-Language: en-us Cc: '6Pack List' <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Sorry to correct you Dave, I know of a few TR5s that were sold new in Toronto through Sportscars Unlimited. They were shipped here in error and, rather than take them back, BL said sell 'em! One of our TTC members is the guy who sold them. Fid. -----Original Message----- From: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:6pack-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dave More Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 6:23 PM To: Timothy Holbrook Cc: 6Pack List Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Canada, like the US, received the TR250. No TR5's were sold as new in North America. Cheers, Dave On 2012-12-26, at 4:18 PM, Timothy Holbrook wrote: > Hey all, > > Trying to figure out a piece of Triumph trivia with my Dad...did the > Canadian market get the TR5, or the TR250? Online references about the TR250 > are somewhat contradictory/vague, sometimes saying that the 250 was for the US > market, other times stating it was the North American market. What's the > word? > > Thanks, > Tim > > ________________________________________ > > 6pack@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/tr6@lbcs.ca ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/djfidler@rogers.com ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 10 19:59:32 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2096740517 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 19:59:32 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from hp89.hostpapa.com (hp89.hostpapa.com [76.74.242.170]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D23B54042D for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 19:59:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from [184.64.38.189] (port=58731 helo=[192.168.1.15]) by hp89.hostpapa.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1TtUmx-004K5u-22; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 21:56:11 -0500 References: <1356563886.70654.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <56C5FB52-8598-4594-B6B2-49056894BA1C@lbcs.ca> <010201cdef6c$fc1937f0$f44ba7d0$@com> From: Dave More Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 19:56:09 -0700 To: "" with any abuse report acl_c_relayhosts_text_entry: tr6@lbcs.ca|lbcs.ca Cc: 6Pack List <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Ya got me! So "officially" there were no Tr5's sold in North America other than those admitted due to bureaucratic bungling? :) Is there any record of where those TR5's ended up, and if they're still active? Cheers, Dave On 2013-01-10, at 12:59 PM, "David Fidler" wrote: > Sorry to correct you Dave, I know of a few TR5s that were sold new in > Toronto through Sportscars Unlimited. They were shipped here in error and, > rather than take them back, BL said sell 'em! One of our TTC members is the > guy who sold them. > > Fid. > > -----Original Message----- > From: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:6pack-bounces@autox.team.net] On > Behalf Of Dave More > Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 6:23 PM > To: Timothy Holbrook > Cc: 6Pack List > Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 > > Canada, like the US, received the TR250. No TR5's were sold as new in North > America. > > Cheers, > Dave > > > On 2012-12-26, at 4:18 PM, Timothy Holbrook wrote: > >> Hey all, >> >> Trying to figure out a piece of Triumph trivia with my Dad...did the >> Canadian market get the TR5, or the TR250? Online references about the > TR250 >> are somewhat contradictory/vague, sometimes saying that the 250 was for > the > US >> market, other times stating it was the North American market. What's the >> word? >> >> Thanks, >> Tim >> >> ________________________________________ >> >> 6pack@autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/tr6@lbcs.ca > > ________________________________________ > > 6pack@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/djfidler@rogers.com ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 10 21:31:33 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A15B40519 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 21:31:33 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from mail-vb0-f45.google.com (mail-vb0-f45.google.com [209.85.212.45]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04A4F40337 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 21:30:48 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-vb0-f45.google.com with SMTP id p1so1068673vbi.18 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:27:34 -0800 (PST) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=GP5ju3gjv044VBr6ARdEGZz4ZBHa/LrWbpPOjR9BRA0=; b=Y2SVT6DXhCWlWy0hxBHfd5DorkYHMNi6dE0prsygtwx3QDz93wVHZKj+kwFZmMkDYF yaUK70zlj4nnW9DC8ngOvp0H18oStVSHr9ApL6siWdg5f2UVvln/6hEtMMsGvtcTf4MQ pT2ZZCol+qGNjGTY5/l+qByp+GpuzLIQ6CKtoZ2iNp/dqCJ6Oy2KB5/eF4G41047qSC6 UQdu+KERGMjRJJqYvg0b5sZzDmhHTbN5LMF+hIGOwdjfKHN1gcIlKYpw2BQ5+8d6H2BL lfcYvmv8tOkJfdQm4vmsmO0JD6bg4TE1oUAbRLnKejinIkBCxcnsj37kQnp8JVhyoG4a hoZw== Received: by 10.52.94.113 with SMTP id db17mr82369139vdb.27.1357878454589; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:27:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.117.9 with HTTP; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 20:27:34 -0800 (PST) References: <1356563886.70654.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <56C5FB52-8598-4594-B6B2-49056894BA1C@lbcs.ca> <010201cdef6c$fc1937f0$f44ba7d0$@com> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 21:27:34 -0700 From: Jody Kerr To: Dave More Cc: 6Pack List <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net I met th fellow who lives in New Mexico and owns a proper TR5. When I asked he said there were 17 of them in the US. On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Dave More wrote: > Ya got me! So "officially" there were no Tr5's sold in North America other > than those admitted due to bureaucratic bungling? :) > > Is there any record of where those TR5's ended up, and if they're still > active? > > Cheers, > Dave > > > On 2013-01-10, at 12:59 PM, "David Fidler" wrote: > >> Sorry to correct you Dave, I know of a few TR5s that were sold new in >> Toronto through Sportscars Unlimited. They were shipped here in error and, >> rather than take them back, BL said sell 'em! One of our TTC members is the >> guy who sold them. >> >> Fid. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:6pack-bounces@autox.team.net] On >> Behalf Of Dave More >> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 6:23 PM >> To: Timothy Holbrook >> Cc: 6Pack List >> Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 >> >> Canada, like the US, received the TR250. No TR5's were sold as new in North >> America. >> >> Cheers, >> Dave >> >> >> On 2012-12-26, at 4:18 PM, Timothy Holbrook wrote: >> >>> Hey all, >>> >>> Trying to figure out a piece of Triumph trivia with my Dad...did the >>> Canadian market get the TR5, or the TR250? Online references about the >> TR250 >>> are somewhat contradictory/vague, sometimes saying that the 250 was for >> the >> US >>> market, other times stating it was the North American market. What's the >>> word? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Tim >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> >>> 6pack@autox.team.net >>> >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/tr6@lbcs.ca >> >> ________________________________________ >> >> 6pack@autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/djfidler@rogers.com > > ________________________________________ > > 6pack@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/jodyfkerr@gmail.com > > -- http://www.theymightberacing.com/ 1953 Studebaker Champion 1960 Austin Healey 3000 (BT7L/5479) 1974 Jensen Healey MKII (14291) 1974 Jensen Healey MKII (18854) 1978 Triumph Spitfire (Mum's) 1981 Triumph TR8 1970 MG MGB 1980 Triumph TR7 "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." --Douglas Adams ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 10 22:08:00 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 223E340531 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 22:08:00 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm16-vm4.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm16-vm4.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.91.176]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8D9C40411 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Thu, 10 Jan 2013 22:07:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [98.138.90.55] by nm16.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2013 05:04:10 -0000 Received: from [98.138.88.242] by tm8.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2013 05:04:10 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp105-mob.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2013 05:04:10 -0000 s=s1024; t=1357880650; bh=7RzrhwlTb0xP0fZ+m6MOi2gIyJnmgexomdkYEmKaKUo=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:References:Mime-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:Cc:X-Mailer:From:Subject:Date:To; b=hlFa9FQsrcamUJECN0ZZ+sOk9iUl1fPnHdLTwdgrsR+7jDadL5UCNtFJGuuOvghOqPbftNm0UvHml1PBldeQKvMG4Fi1zh0DDozSvZYinfqCDkLHrPckWKQkDOrLO90TWOZ7af4NAX9Mp3+/YkqfiJuwoOg4SeumDSVtS+k5I1E= V5EUBE7SvGpOJlZmv8W7upbdFT9s.C7s6jNQG44CNpHlkkS4iAnL9m8zDNWp oTYT.QAfXzEEkzU5Cs0jjPCNdPuOcsxRuKlbunWJTCp9VcBrIiHiDY2iE7fL hyRci2NbhDHyiNtEthFaCkTLzKR7cwT2.L9E0DWdNm__jJ0NO8S6WpZk_e0A ED875HuY1jfWJSTSA_0uI1GrbxTrJPEf9l0Gf3bSGlFqXvxXPBvRHt2H3Oro u3V2QWcWn8XzS0Gu05OD3w_6LpBD7XfRKVwPzWqAxmj_5ZU75knpYGDH9IEG Gj2PFSJ.42IEha0mtmqewJFwl0i3FDVuMkkgd5qruchLYvMlWsS9.XzIVzAS J0Wu3U4SEnUsotHt839zfgkDnjcZtoqAlpNCbks0ewQpXv9doNFbk5DzsiVX HoMsATEV9JXuXAlt6Tx.Zqo3Ax4z5hPIkFaNtqvMZLHux_zoGrciDvuC6mEX vY2XtCiZT8Z35vmAVuDvFL1EKMRn2iuJekb13DzEhtl6tH6E2xM_w..FIK3a BEenPWV4VfUwfyxLj1QyrAYuidwtkuLKDHFfxwLLe Received: from [192.168.0.109] (djfidler@99.240.105.77 with plain) by smtp105-mob.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2013 05:04:09 +0000 UTC References: <1356563886.70654.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <56C5FB52-8598-4594-B6B2-49056894BA1C@lbcs.ca> <010201cdef6c$fc1937f0$f44ba7d0$@com> From: David Fidler Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 00:04:09 -0500 To: Jody Kerr Cc: 6Pack List <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Quite a few exist in NA, but as far as I know, only the few (I think it was 3) sold in Canada arrived here unregistered new. Of course some US and Canadian armed forces guys bought TR5s while they were stationed in Europe and shipped over when they came home, so there are probably a lot more here than we think. I see them on eBay frOm time to time. I don't know where the Canadian fives ended up or if they're still on the road, but I'll ask our guy (he's also our historian, so if anyone knows, he will). Best regards, David. Sent from my iPad On 2013-01-10, at 11:27 PM, Jody Kerr wrote: > I met th fellow who lives in New Mexico and owns a proper TR5. When I > asked he said there were 17 of them in the US. > > On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Dave More wrote: >> Ya got me! So "officially" there were no Tr5's sold in North America other >> than those admitted due to bureaucratic bungling? :) >> >> Is there any record of where those TR5's ended up, and if they're still >> active? >> >> Cheers, >> Dave >> >> >> On 2013-01-10, at 12:59 PM, "David Fidler" wrote: >> >>> Sorry to correct you Dave, I know of a few TR5s that were sold new in >>> Toronto through Sportscars Unlimited. They were shipped here in error and, >>> rather than take them back, BL said sell 'em! One of our TTC members is the >>> guy who sold them. >>> >>> Fid. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:6pack-bounces@autox.team.net] On >>> Behalf Of Dave More >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 6:23 PM >>> To: Timothy Holbrook >>> Cc: 6Pack List >>> Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 >>> >>> Canada, like the US, received the TR250. No TR5's were sold as new in North >>> America. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> On 2012-12-26, at 4:18 PM, Timothy Holbrook wrote: >>> >>>> Hey all, >>>> >>>> Trying to figure out a piece of Triumph trivia with my Dad...did the >>>> Canadian market get the TR5, or the TR250? Online references about the >>> TR250 >>>> are somewhat contradictory/vague, sometimes saying that the 250 was for >>> the >>> US >>>> market, other times stating it was the North American market. What's the >>>> word? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tim >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> >>>> 6pack@autox.team.net >>>> >>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/tr6@lbcs.ca >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> >>> 6pack@autox.team.net >>> >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>> Unsubscribe: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/djfidler@rogers.com >> >> ________________________________________ >> >> 6pack@autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/jodyfkerr@gmail.com >> >> > > > > -- > http://www.theymightberacing.com/ > > 1953 Studebaker Champion 1960 Austin Healey 3000 (BT7L/5479) > 1974 Jensen Healey MKII (14291) 1974 Jensen Healey MKII (18854) > 1978 Triumph Spitfire (Mum's) 1981 Triumph TR8 > 1970 MG MGB 1980 Triumph TR7 > "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn > from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent > disinclination to do so." > --Douglas Adams ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 11 02:06:26 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DEB74064D for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 02:06:26 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from smtpauth22.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (smtpauth22.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net [64.202.165.44]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id EF52F40560 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 02:05:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 23843 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2013 09:02:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (76.184.166.234) by smtpauth22.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (64.202.165.44) with ESMTP; 11 Jan 2013 09:02:37 -0000 From: "Dave" To: "Triumph 6 Pack" <6pack@autox.team.net> References: <1356563886.70654.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><56C5FB52-8598-4594-B6B2-49056894BA1C@lbcs.ca><010201cdef6c$fc1937f0$f44ba7d0$@com> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 02:52:46 -0600 Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net one of those is in the philadelphia area, member of the delaware county triumphs. that car came from belgium, and had been wrecked. its gorgeous now. -----Original Message----- From: Jody Kerr Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 10:27 PM To: Dave More Cc: 6Pack List Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 I met th fellow who lives in New Mexico and owns a proper TR5. When I asked he said there were 17 of them in the US. On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Dave More wrote: > Ya got me! So "officially" there were no Tr5's sold in North America other > than those admitted due to bureaucratic bungling? :) > > Is there any record of where those TR5's ended up, and if they're still > active? > > Cheers, > Dave ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 11 07:19:39 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7B8040E41 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 07:19:39 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from qmta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.48]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EED440404 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 07:19:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from omta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.51]) by qmta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id mdXd1k00716LCl055eFukn; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:15:54 +0000 Received: from [10.0.1.17] ([66.56.8.22]) by omta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id meFt1k0100UXH423SeFuAo; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:15:54 +0000 From: Ashford Little <70tr6@comcast.net> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 09:15:53 -0500 References: <1356563886.70654.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <56C5FB52-8598-4594-B6B2-49056894BA1C@lbcs.ca> <010201cdef6c$fc1937f0$f44ba7d0$@com> <187D06D10B474BAE8082AC0D9AE9FB3D@Datsun> To: Dave s=q20121106; t=1357913754; bh=RfwygtZzUNKrTJ7QWLGTIrRos8izmddvq86nTib4WsE=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:Date: Message-Id:To; b=QD3FOrP+dnMhlBMbNiaNTP/+abak05haxqykJGm+LUsH0Gc2yCtOPI5zAj8Dmaokv 6cFIQcoseK06z9cQcfzI426Qsb6j++lCJPa43GKbCwOFWzOpy5hRa+ZRv5zEd2Syog NpD7RiqVO0UJkJaKTG0J/vaCg0IJa58ASQhOUQM7Z5+k4GQa36u+JBq5SDY7QZ9DuZ 9WSpzz+tgpsfV/wOFYye7fCRA7FxYgghHcDwAhtLrUEYvOL688Eo0VOlhDmOskRWdE kQ0Mo3A10yQv8xwFlLdN0Ws9UsYGYpvXJ+cRvQk7aeP8OgxHvHL3qEQ2lzsixu0iL+ GbAcO4sfXVrRg== Cc: Triumph 6 Pack <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Is it a BRG car? One lived in Atlanta a few years ago. I met the owner at a local show. We got to talking about the car. He really didn't know much about the car or Triumphs. I asked him to call me if he ever wanted to sell it, and in the meantime to get involved. Never saw him again, but a year or so later I came across the car being sold by a dealer. Thus ended the story. Ashford Little ralittle2@mac.com On Jan 11, 2013, at 3:52 AM, Dave wrote: > one of those is in the philadelphia area, member of the delaware county triumphs. that car came from belgium, and had been wrecked. its gorgeous now. > > -----Original Message----- From: Jody Kerr > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 10:27 PM > To: Dave More > Cc: 6Pack List > Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 > > I met th fellow who lives in New Mexico and owns a proper TR5. When I > asked he said there were 17 of them in the US. > > On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Dave More wrote: >> Ya got me! So "officially" there were no Tr5's sold in North America other >> than those admitted due to bureaucratic bungling? :) >> >> Is there any record of where those TR5's ended up, and if they're still >> active? >> >> Cheers, >> Dave > > ________________________________________ > > 6pack@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/70tr6@comcast.net ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 11 09:15:46 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 385C840E30 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 09:15:46 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm10-vm0.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com (nm10-vm0.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com [98.139.44.122]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 097364069C for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 09:15:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from [98.139.44.105] by nm10.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2013 16:12:21 -0000 Received: from [67.195.15.61] by tm10.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2013 16:12:20 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp102.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2013 16:12:20 -0000 aQTWY4Ji.ElPBBoxuVDsTCgIoVFMirbbdwRzBD5Hdo5TKajqaOR946lDZuHB dziAVpqGjNRh.znQ7601hkKM_qC5G7JQvpv7IrnO4CKfEPP8WXbJbmigZ91. TUWtS2sI9kCHNFI8Tc0KpmkFACHLwu0ZtkhBI06HuYA7DXgNMg8_x1ne.HFx ceAM3gR6f9OiQcmgQwfAu493cfBD.iAdtzSKP15mHmzdG4bDfCyDQ4UdvHkw wi7vXn7ioSsjQFllYarAnAwPv92Km8SUkgwY.snXJcj3HgRlut0zUr3oJCYJ XmmH7UNhE6hGhTlGzQqo4UQ4NZA4d7dvt8ReYorzKY_zNjJh5I1O51wige_W npQ7q7BHN.il2oateM3mjFDSWQDjVUcRtv7HR9j9IQQj0Gyw.Qd1DA0pqS7D 4mFe.vSNjl7D832tycopjMcwZagGzLV2xhQwRuNdtUOk46cA17tx0Bk2fH75 noxl3WcbxeMOtMAnx3Z04vPEzlrTRn47FiHm5Q85vNK97In9gEai1ckvuJqH jc1WlU6M91.ltjQzdJxGmPOKkw2orz4jBiVpZ Received: from [192.168.1.77] (cartravel@99.98.59.54 with plain) by smtp102.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2013 08:12:20 -0800 PST Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 10:12:30 -0600 From: Larry Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 To: 6pack@autox.team.net References: <1356563886.70654.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <56C5FB52-8598-4594-B6B2-49056894BA1C@lbcs.ca> <010201cdef6c$fc1937f0$f44ba7d0$@com> <6A98954B-6C40-4EC5-8C5C-EC0C10156D66@rogers.com> Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Did the TR5 meet Canadian emission standards of the time? I bought my TR250 on European delivery and had to have a special EPA form stating that it met US emission standards in order to register it in the US. Larry Young On 1/10/2013 11:04 PM, David Fidler wrote: > Quite a few exist in NA, but as far as I know, only the few (I think it was 3) > sold in Canada arrived here unregistered new. Of course some US and Canadian > armed forces guys bought TR5s while they were stationed in Europe and shipped > over when they came home, so there are probably a lot more here than we think. > I see them on eBay frOm time to time. > > I don't know where the Canadian fives ended up or if they're still on the > road, but I'll ask our guy (he's also our historian, so if anyone knows, he > will). > > Best regards, > > David. > > Sent from my iPad > > On 2013-01-10, at 11:27 PM, Jody Kerr wrote: > >> I met th fellow who lives in New Mexico and owns a proper TR5. When I >> asked he said there were 17 of them in the US. >> >> On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Dave More wrote: >>> Ya got me! So "officially" there were no Tr5's sold in North America other >>> than those admitted due to bureaucratic bungling? :) >>> >>> Is there any record of where those TR5's ended up, and if they're still >>> active? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> On 2013-01-10, at 12:59 PM, "David Fidler" wrote: >>> >>>> Sorry to correct you Dave, I know of a few TR5s that were sold new in >>>> Toronto through Sportscars Unlimited. They were shipped here in error > and, >>>> rather than take them back, BL said sell 'em! One of our TTC members is > the >>>> guy who sold them. >>>> >>>> Fid. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:6pack-bounces@autox.team.net] > On >>>> Behalf Of Dave More >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 6:23 PM >>>> To: Timothy Holbrook >>>> Cc: 6Pack List >>>> Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 >>>> >>>> Canada, like the US, received the TR250. No TR5's were sold as new in > North >>>> America. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2012-12-26, at 4:18 PM, Timothy Holbrook wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hey all, >>>>> >>>>> Trying to figure out a piece of Triumph trivia with my Dad...did the >>>>> Canadian market get the TR5, or the TR250? Online references about the >>>> TR250 >>>>> are somewhat contradictory/vague, sometimes saying that the 250 was for >>>> the >>>> US >>>>> market, other times stating it was the North American market. What's > the >>>>> word? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Tim >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> 6pack@autox.team.net >>>>> >>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>>>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>>>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/tr6@lbcs.ca >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> >>>> 6pack@autox.team.net >>>> >>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>>> Unsubscribe: >>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/djfidler@rogers.com >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> >>> 6pack@autox.team.net >>> >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >>> Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/jodyfkerr@gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> http://www.theymightberacing.com/ >> >> 1953 Studebaker Champion 1960 Austin Healey 3000 (BT7L/5479) >> 1974 Jensen Healey MKII (14291) 1974 Jensen Healey MKII (18854) >> 1978 Triumph Spitfire (Mum's) 1981 Triumph TR8 >> 1970 MG MGB 1980 Triumph TR7 >> "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn >> from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent >> disinclination to do so." >> --Douglas Adams > ________________________________________ > > 6pack@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/cartravel@pobox.com ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 11 13:27:37 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4DD240E45 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:27:37 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm1-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm1-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.236.27]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E46DC40E27 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:27:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.94.237.195] by nm1.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2013 20:23:44 -0000 Received: from [98.139.221.71] by tm6.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2013 20:23:44 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp108.rog.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2013 20:23:44 -0000 s=s1024; t=1357935824; bh=c+pncVhKapFPWe7wvVakhrxXD5VhOtU58jh+pM2DA3Q=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Reply-To:From:To:Cc:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:Organization:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:Content-Language; b=FeuN4kiRkrf+okvnAA3Ah7dpnpJkymOYpVX7EaUglX8D1tn6Mp1QZfCeUoztfcMldrlFxOHMshYO5n0ZmErMFrhggcwNTG54gXg32ngqXS8xa9nKosRkoKDaEuJaTgPJX/tC0P4PsGFum+5pdpdcCPc3dotfQSnVGSeclod50Mg= kQVx4AWkeP_LYTc1JMc0Jr0NFSgBSPt4Z9DeMOhGNWAqK2gZtkH3GEWe6qZ9 OcXj9i2IQGgvK6kL46DoovdrU7GTHeSnTOIR.2_4m_INa5zgdmQYv9wj4kuH ug.Oer7bgRaKW8_Tszrb18PDm4yznHJAFLiiKic9hpqA93Wts7qsgGmk48w3 .pc3GUBTnJ7C6TeuSZj6bMs9W7XjERuqSZZj5moXSGrkCPA4flB0fZDwEjLq tLyeirUhRu6_4oZfPJMgxbPug3KLz4Y0eQl7h9bzjfCGyf_hRTzmGj1B6dUy bhmi7yE9DXQ1D8FbcDpPYRodGuid36UsEVY_tVmsYu1boPrhluS1AamF1Dz5 4FgOznA9yXuARcTpRlQrVO1d6mWu6mJ7WQQ3nWLXLReSNxHCDvfuIMcONnsx cIbLewSNeXNEUsyanfATVpzjp3A-- Received: from ProMedia (DJFidler@99.240.105.77 with login) by smtp108.rog.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2013 12:23:43 -0800 PST From: "David Fidler" To: "'Larry Young'" References: <1356563886.70654.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <56C5FB52-8598-4594-B6B2-49056894BA1C@lbcs.ca> <010201cdef6c$fc1937f0$f44ba7d0$@com> <6A98954B-6C40-4EC5-8C5C-EC0C10156D66@rogers.com> <50F039EE.9060401@pobox.com> <677B3705-0CA1-4A19-8677-87D74DB0AF1A@rogers.com> <50F03F83.8020301@pobox.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:23:25 -0500 Organization: ProMedia Thread-Index: Ac3wGcJnBh2sO+sORtCZ1yjLMMFefwAHwheQ Content-Language: en-us Cc: 6pack@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Are you sure about that Larry? I've never actually seen the test results, have you? My guess is that the problem was more to do with the lower octane (RON) rating of US fuel. The UK PI TR5s (and TR6s) were designed to run on 4 star leaded fuel (97 octane), if they didn't meet the US regs, it's most likely the inferior fuel quality/lower octane was the cause. Europe has as strict, if not more stringent, emissions regs than the US and the PI TR5s and 6s passed those. Injected cars typically have better emissions than carbs, although the Lucas system was totally mechanical and therefore didn't have any of the modern electronic emissions control systems. Just sayin' Fid. -----Original Message----- From: Larry Young [mailto:cartravel@pobox.com] Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 11:36 AM To: David Fidler Cc: 6pack@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 The TR5 did not meet US Emission standards and could not legally be imported into the US. On 1/11/2013 10:27 AM, David Fidler wrote: > Larry, > > I don't think the dealer cared about that. The TR5s were able to exceed US and Canadian emissions standards anyway. The real reason (so I'm told) is they were dumbed down to Stroms because the US dealers created hell about having to maintain the Lucas injection system and the boffins at Triumph acquiesced. > > Best regards, > > David. > > Sent from my iPad ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 11 13:35:41 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 774D640E44 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:35:41 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from qmta12.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta12.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.27.227]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE06F40E27 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:35:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from omta16.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.72]) by qmta12.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id meBc1k0091ZMdJ4ACkXzbk; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 20:31:59 +0000 Received: from [10.0.1.17] ([66.56.8.22]) by omta16.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id mkXx1k00B0UXH428ckXy8H; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 20:31:58 +0000 From: Ashford Little <70tr6@comcast.net> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:31:56 -0500 References: <1356563886.70654.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <56C5FB52-8598-4594-B6B2-49056894BA1C@lbcs.ca> <010201cdef6c$fc1937f0$f44ba7d0$@com> <6A98954B-6C40-4EC5-8C5C-EC0C10156D66@rogers.com> <50F039EE.9060401@pobox.com> <677B3705-0CA1-4A19-8677-87D74DB0AF1A@rogers.com> <50F03F83.8020301@pobox.com> <027b01cdf039$827525d0$875f7170$@com> To: DJFidler@rogers.com s=q20121106; t=1357936319; bh=uO6N2liXEkETvx/6LWqfiyOeZ5MH2+8npHwkqiEZu2M=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:Date: Message-Id:To; b=N4HzPb3ZbrdvP6VN15HoIIUUxUVJkw4VAYajfZpsHG5MEj61SNzjhmcpxqMzB6MxB //0rbaWkgUByRK6V3+zu2ObperZtKun6NAMjrQmA/1zK+T+l3msNiRKdnTop17+KZL 9NbuV7OiXydRvXroz3jhtXMPdSCeN/9BvpSu72YsQ/C8WlSoqR+2+yTWR/vtrOViAi gYWw4KNsCrxv/ceJOrL/Kjd2f5YmA5DJI8kW0QD22FPzlO2n98qUsFk3yAexbh47xz u4GErltwmT8Gt5cWuwTEb52Lxg9+DALliJbLcsmtWiQzxQojrb82zfzfrDzV4o4dvV 6noa6pzwKN3VQ== Cc: 6pack@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net I heard that the whole emissions argument was "the story" but that the real reason was cost. The PI system costs more and they didn't think us Yanks would pay for the added cost as PI wasn't common at the time. I think Mike Cook might have said this. Then again, I might be wrong. Ashford Little ralittle2@mac.com On Jan 11, 2013, at 3:23 PM, David Fidler wrote: > Are you sure about that Larry? I've never actually seen the test results, > have you? > > My guess is that the problem was more to do with the lower octane (RON) > rating of US fuel. The UK PI TR5s (and TR6s) were designed to run on 4 star > leaded fuel (97 octane), if they didn't meet the US regs, it's most likely > the inferior fuel quality/lower octane was the cause. Europe has as strict, > if not more stringent, emissions regs than the US and the PI TR5s and 6s > passed those. Injected cars typically have better emissions than carbs, > although the Lucas system was totally mechanical and therefore didn't have > any of the modern electronic emissions control systems. > > Just sayin' > > Fid. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Young [mailto:cartravel@pobox.com] > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 11:36 AM > To: David Fidler > Cc: 6pack@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 > > The TR5 did not meet US Emission standards and could not legally be > imported into the US. > > On 1/11/2013 10:27 AM, David Fidler wrote: >> Larry, >> >> I don't think the dealer cared about that. The TR5s were able to exceed US > and Canadian emissions standards anyway. The real reason (so I'm told) is > they were dumbed down to Stroms because the US dealers created hell about > having to maintain the Lucas injection system and the boffins at Triumph > acquiesced. >> >> Best regards, >> >> David. >> >> Sent from my iPad > > ________________________________________ > > 6pack@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/70tr6@comcast.net > > Ashford Little 70tr6@comcast.net ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 11 13:55:34 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9417A40EA3 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:55:34 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm33.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm33.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [72.30.238.133]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 450C54041B for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:55:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [98.139.215.141] by nm33.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2013 20:51:41 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.193] by tm12.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2013 20:51:38 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2013 20:51:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 89244 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 2013 20:51:38 -0000 s=s1024; t=1357937498; bh=KznXlYZmxRu0YFzZzQgumkDT86G4psCmTelv5TQ4C/g=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=KNxGiYLzQVpz9L+qXa1aJETlJgoU+WwuYW2ONslcoVyoEIbMLRE9XIHNxqzc0F+jb9KkQlcLg5GpoDy/1n/xir29EA51iaUh3ZFXPkbeS6j4fy8phRUHB+s0F6GXN8JRkySdpdRY6IgQz6ljy0FBI2T6KWlo+tDLSEnz9Yzq/x8= s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=gTWGJ/gPVAKt4KyG1jVwPWHQ+oM90vA5Ddx+LjmWkKbiTwaXO94LloPK/UHCSoH9pTCEpsWEHI4IwjhducGtI3a2E/dPMKgUOP9+G88xlJhcbL6YVYNJeHg5IuasqzavUwGF0Lf2H5ckw6BoQjGAznaBMpLgYrsNpiPlpM01sLU=; jl.YVWMI0naTVNa7ZnI3Fim2YElMSdSsL.p7vX5HXlcALeRd.8rSFzgtLg4N 4jvwc88._eBw8Msjl7SPLn60SUxcL1rNIiUrkORVP78pxeVF7sDsiTAmH4YJ ShkpWujMOSSkMaXdWosl2RiCjbGvGy7Dzd5VkaGld1nJp2O6qWBmStn6HUNv 7bXrvaySj6vcKW22WCsP6DihwAu1hdqj3NhOrmi2ydm7hplWm1cesjGtitGc zPbULypF6ASaVsuihLS9dD0fxCD2mpiKXe.S_j4fReg2FlsNbV5O1HUKvusw WPN8xMr5vjk3jbJDAnuRlvagZOqnvOzrrjoBlmYKNrZ_oDaEH5J6yvSuzD0G .THaKheiQnCA6_QmZsVTbRVNINiBlZ6QYyGva9MpTAWGaValAnXjULln0FAE M7dMzlZCFUyFdGtkFh3chy83xGfXR2xt.rC74IBYmq5vKOMtT9Rwcy9SEHq3 6cOdbvuh2Pm8DwCzHyg-- Received: from [75.83.58.175] by web161303.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:51:37 PST RmlkIC0tLSBIaWdoIG9jdGFuZSBmdWVsIHdhcyBhdmFpbGFibGUgaGVyZSBpbiB0aGUgU3RhdGVzIGR1cmluZyBhbGwgb2YgdGhlICc2MHMgd2hlbiB0aGUgVFI1cyB3ZXJlIG5ldy4gSSByZW1lbWJlciBzZWVpbmcgMTAwKyBvY3RhbmUgb24gc29tZSBvZiBvdXIgcHVtcHMgYW5kIG11c2NsZSBjYXJzIGxpbmVkIHVwIHRvIGdldCBpdC4gSSdtIGxlc3MgY2VydGFpbiBhcyB0byB3aHkgdGhlIFUuUy4gZGlkbid0IGFsbG93IHRoZWlyIHNhbGVzIGhlcmUuIEl0IHdvdWxkIHNlZW0gbGlrZSBpdCB3b3VsZCBiZSABMAEBAQE- References: <1356563886.70654.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <56C5FB52-8598-4594-B6B2-49056894BA1C@lbcs.ca> <010201cdef6c$fc1937f0$f44ba7d0$@com> <6A98954B-6C40-4EC5-8C5C-EC0C10156D66@rogers.com> <50F039EE.9060401@pobox.com> <677B3705-0CA1-4A19-8677-87D74DB0AF1A@rogers.com> <50F03F83.8020301@pobox.com> <027b01cdf039$827525d0$875f7170$@com> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:51:37 -0800 (PST) From: Sally or Dick Taylor To: "DJFidler@rogers.com" , 'Larry Young' Cc: "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Fid --- High octane fuel was available here in the States during all of the '60s when the TR5s were new. I remember seeing 100+ octane on some of our pumps and muscle cars lined up to get it. I'm less certain as to why the U.S. didn't allow their sales here. It would seem like it would be an emissions thingy, as the US didn't care about whether these cars would run on a lesser grade of octane. We know the cam used in the 5 to be "dirtier" than the carbureted engine. Another drawback to US sales could've been the higher cost of the P.I. system, and the training necessary to service them. Oh, well... Dick '73 Los Angeles area >________________________________ > From: David Fidler >To: 'Larry Young' >Cc: 6pack@autox.team.net >Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:23 PM >Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 > >Are you sure about that Larry? I've never actually seen the test results, >have you? > >My guess is that the problem was more to do with the lower octane (RON) >rating of US fuel. The UK PI TR5s (and TR6s) were designed to run on 4 star >leaded fuel (97 octane), if they didn't meet the US regs, it's most likely >the inferior fuel quality/lower octane was the cause. Europe has as strict, >if not more stringent, emissions regs than the US and the PI TR5s and 6s >passed those. Injected cars typically have better emissions than carbs, >although the Lucas system was totally mechanical and therefore didn't have >any of the modern electronic emissions control systems. > >Just sayin' > >Fid. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Larry Young [mailto:cartravel@pobox.com] >Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 11:36 AM >To: David Fidler >Cc: 6pack@autox.team.net >Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 > >The TR5 did not meet US Emission standards and could not legally be >imported into the US. > >On 1/11/2013 10:27 AM, David Fidler wrote: >> Larry, >> >> I don't think the dealer cared about that. The TR5s were able to exceed US >and Canadian emissions standards anyway. The real reason (so I'm told) is >they were dumbed down to Stroms because the US dealers created hell about >having to maintain the Lucas injection system and the boffins at Triumph >acquiesced. >> >> Best regards, >> >> David. >> >> Sent from my iPad > >________________________________________ > >6pack@autox.team.net > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Archive: >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/taylorturbo6@yahoo.com ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 11 13:56:16 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D12840E6C for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:56:16 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from hp89.hostpapa.com (hp89.hostpapa.com [76.74.242.170]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6EF04041B for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:55:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [184.64.38.189] (port=64674 helo=[192.168.1.15]) by hp89.hostpapa.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Ttlag-000NGl-VN; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:52:39 -0500 References: <1356563886.70654.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <56C5FB52-8598-4594-B6B2-49056894BA1C@lbcs.ca> <010201cdef6c$fc1937f0$f44ba7d0$@com> <6A98954B-6C40-4EC5-8C5C-EC0C10156D66@rogers.com> <50F039EE.9060401@pobox.com> <677B3705-0CA1-4A19-8677-87D74DB0AF1A@rogers.com> <50F03F83.8020301@pobox.com> <027b01cdf039$827525d0$875f7170$@com> <1A166899-5F76-42B0-9368-187751DF3A9E@comcast.net> From: Dave More Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:52:41 -0700 To: Ashford Little <70tr6@comcast.net> with any abuse report acl_c_relayhosts_text_entry: tr6@lbcs.ca|lbcs.ca Cc: "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net And to add to the tales of complexity and cost apparently the PI cars also didn't take kindly to the types of elevation changes we have in North America, which tends to be a non-issue with modern EFI systems. Although I did own a '77 Rabbit and a '76 Saab 99, both with Bosch K-Jetronic (mechanical) injection and altitude didn't seem to bother those Cheers, Dave On 2013-01-11, at 1:31 PM, Ashford Little <70tr6@comcast.net> wrote: > I heard that the whole emissions argument was "the story" but that the real > reason was cost. The PI system costs more and they didn't think us Yanks > would pay for the added cost as PI wasn't common at the time. I think Mike > Cook might have said this. Then again, I might be wrong. > > Ashford Little > ralittle2@mac.com > > > > > On Jan 11, 2013, at 3:23 PM, David Fidler wrote: > >> Are you sure about that Larry? I've never actually seen the test results, >> have you? >> >> My guess is that the problem was more to do with the lower octane (RON) >> rating of US fuel. The UK PI TR5s (and TR6s) were designed to run on 4 star >> leaded fuel (97 octane), if they didn't meet the US regs, it's most likely >> the inferior fuel quality/lower octane was the cause. Europe has as strict, >> if not more stringent, emissions regs than the US and the PI TR5s and 6s >> passed those. Injected cars typically have better emissions than carbs, >> although the Lucas system was totally mechanical and therefore didn't have >> any of the modern electronic emissions control systems. >> >> Just sayin' >> >> Fid. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Larry Young [mailto:cartravel@pobox.com] >> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 11:36 AM >> To: David Fidler >> Cc: 6pack@autox.team.net >> Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 >> >> The TR5 did not meet US Emission standards and could not legally be >> imported into the US. >> >> On 1/11/2013 10:27 AM, David Fidler wrote: >>> Larry, >>> >>> I don't think the dealer cared about that. The TR5s were able to exceed US >> and Canadian emissions standards anyway. The real reason (so I'm told) is >> they were dumbed down to Stroms because the US dealers created hell about >> having to maintain the Lucas injection system and the boffins at Triumph >> acquiesced. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> David. >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >> >> ________________________________________ >> >> 6pack@autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/70tr6@comcast.net > > > Ashford Little > 70tr6@comcast.net > > ________________________________________ > > 6pack@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/tr6@lbcs.ca ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 11 14:10:00 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 614F440E69 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:10:00 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from dfn.com (mail.dfn.com [74.116.128.7]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAF0040E2C for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:09:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.0.2] [199.83.117.102] by dfn.com with ESMTP (SMTPD-11.5) id 2448009f0328771c; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:06:36 -0700 Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:06:46 -0700 From: Michael Porter User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 To: Ashford Little <70tr6@comcast.net> References: <1356563886.70654.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <56C5FB52-8598-4594-B6B2-49056894BA1C@lbcs.ca> <010201cdef6c$fc1937f0$f44ba7d0$@com> <6A98954B-6C40-4EC5-8C5C-EC0C10156D66@rogers.com> <50F039EE.9060401@pobox.com> <677B3705-0CA1-4A19-8677-87D74DB0AF1A@rogers.com> <50F03F83.8020301@pobox.com> <027b01cdf039$827525d0$875f7170$@com> <1A166899-5F76-42B0-9368-187751DF3A9E@comcast.net> Cc: 6pack@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net On 1/11/2013 1:31 PM, Ashford Little wrote: > I heard that the whole emissions argument was "the story" but that the real > reason was cost. The PI system costs more and they didn't think us Yanks > would pay for the added cost as PI wasn't common at the time. I think Mike > Cook might have said this. Then again, I might be wrong. > IIRC, the plan was to introduce PI as a means of meeting the 1968 US emissions standards, but the development costs mounted (partly because Lucas specified individual runner throttling and some other new proprietary parts, which really drove up unit pricing and time to delivery). There was also some preliminary rally testing done that indicated that the lack of barometric mixture control made performance problematic in a lot of US locations. When it was found at a late stage of development that Stromberg could meet emissions at a lower cost than PI, that pretty much sealed the deal for the larger US market. As for emissions standards, they may be comparable to the US standards now (or even tighter), but that simply wasn't the case in 1968. Triumph at the time was concerned about meeting US standards, which were quite new to both them and the American manufacturers. The British and European standards were almost non-existent then, which is why the the PI engines were first equipped with a camshaft with considerably more overlap than the US engine and could make a rated 150 hp. Nor did fuel quality have much to do with it (there's nothing intrinsically better about European fuel blending). At the time of introduction, pump gas of ~ 100 octane was available (remember Sunoco 260?). It was only when tetraethyl lead began to be phased out in the `80s that octane ratings dropped (Europe was well behind the US in that change, which might contribute to the belief that European fuel was superior). Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 11 14:21:38 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 581C840E81 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:21:38 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm17.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm17.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.237.218]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3808A40E2C for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:21:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.94.237.199] by nm17.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2013 21:18:14 -0000 Received: from [98.139.221.70] by tm10.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2013 21:18:14 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp107.rog.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2013 21:18:13 -0000 s=s1024; t=1357939093; bh=5nZ3hCNi4IK/M/Db49dWlTt4EFARNp6j25OZwhMToeY=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Reply-To:From:To:Cc:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:Organization:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:Content-Language; b=AZEk2W2a0G/wBRHJWrVfoaqmA/h0DjJU2kk4nvpCmqJAH6xayt6rRPTyBr1mRqwsrvqcX1mZR0br08vP1uzwRYhG/OLAcmDwhT6SkL3RzKnNB0KoQt/akbsNXvFugGbxVnccjYGh3HthmtwHZnlmcl86WXivVMrg3x7S9Kb2MmU= UKr0Jo2GZqvoOS5pBhjB6I3IQ5dcy4R_.FSK_QbR38dBQPbpQ2PpEeewhu4q uBXeURh0HVHKNmHkOIankZm4rvsgJnkzfUwcqzHfM2s__K6MNjgkS5fVI1Gu 1Ca7XpG6hrXtN7.xLtkZYumTF0ueodNv2glx7zNBHiYGbXK3_m.qIXiNZzld Qk2hD9UgILSnN25SXEfdCPm06GKW9QhFjvjg7kAUrE3Owlm.a2QtolXmhefC 5Qvst1ePirK5aVld0QBvJRLs9Lvn5Ndh8P0LaXe9VcQxB30n1IFY2VcWTq2p rBVZuQ3MUK9BmWvP9jCTRKEFyGnHcEZfoZQpsiBLFF5ofssZYXw.MOWiP9l7 FTl67sT6N6sTCVtqnyfsLdVtPG46OaGNoc4oFmLaf02og55PF4pI5zDqbh3u WfazYvoc3hEpHGXr7MNnt..cppoBvTTXmrPBr7VFyDnlAJN71vUIH7fQsqX5 rjviZzjcs75ztQoIVGNsDLbna0O_kbo102Nj.tSFTpok_kXow53E43EmuqMu 2LHhtQfvn6vaNENLy Received: from ProMedia (DJFidler@99.240.105.77 with login) by smtp107.rog.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2013 13:18:13 -0800 PST From: "David Fidler" To: "'Ashford Little'" References: <1356563886.70654.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <56C5FB52-8598-4594-B6B2-49056894BA1C@lbcs.ca> <010201cdef6c$fc1937f0$f44ba7d0$@com> <6A98954B-6C40-4EC5-8C5C-EC0C10156D66@rogers.com> <50F039EE.9060401@pobox.com> <677B3705-0CA1-4A19-8677-87D74DB0AF1A@rogers.com> <50F03F83.8020301@pobox.com> <027b01cdf039$827525d0$875f7170$@com> <23A0410A-1301-446D-A2C3-2B290F979548@mac.com> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:17:54 -0500 Organization: ProMedia Thread-Index: Ac3wOqWPXRIoJObtSdKDCmd0K2neywABfT8Q Content-Language: en-us Cc: 6pack@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Yep, that is pretty much what I heard too, but I forgot about the cost factor, which I think was more to do with the maintenance cost than the OEM cost of the unit... you Yanks didn't/wouldn't go on the training courses to learn how to tune/fix them! ;-) Corvettes had fuel injection from the late fifties, so I don't know why it held any mystery for US mechanics? We'll probably never really know for sure. Fid. From: Ashford Little [mailto:ralittle2@mac.com] Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 3:32 PM To: DJFidler@rogers.com Cc: Ashford Little; 'Larry Young'; 6pack@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 I heard that the whole emissions argument was "the story" but that the real reason was cost. The PI system costs more and they didn't think us Yanks would pay for the added cost as PI wasn't common at the time. I think Mike Cook might have said this. Then again, I might be wrong. Ashford Little ralittle2@mac.com On Jan 11, 2013, at 3:23 PM, David Fidler wrote: Are you sure about that Larry? I've never actually seen the test results, have you? My guess is that the problem was more to do with the lower octane (RON) rating of US fuel. The UK PI TR5s (and TR6s) were designed to run on 4 star leaded fuel (97 octane), if they didn't meet the US regs, it's most likely the inferior fuel quality/lower octane was the cause. Europe has as strict, if not more stringent, emissions regs than the US and the PI TR5s and 6s passed those. Injected cars typically have better emissions than carbs, although the Lucas system was totally mechanical and therefore didn't have any of the modern electronic emissions control systems. Just sayin' Fid. -----Original Message----- From: Larry Young [mailto:cartravel@pobox.com] Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 11:36 AM To: David Fidler Cc: 6pack@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 The TR5 did not meet US Emission standards and could not legally be imported into the US. On 1/11/2013 10:27 AM, David Fidler wrote: Larry, I don't think the dealer cared about that. The TR5s were able to exceed US and Canadian emissions standards anyway. The real reason (so I'm told) is they were dumbed down to Stroms because the US dealers created hell about having to maintain the Lucas injection system and the boffins at Triumph acquiesced. Best regards, David. Sent from my iPad ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/70tr6@comcast.net ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 11 15:17:26 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 680EC4225A for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:17:26 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from imr-ma01.mx.aol.com (imr-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.206.39]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D98640EA5 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:16:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaout-db04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-db04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.196]) by imr-ma01.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 8F8A538000054; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 17:12:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.102] (c-98-235-149-216.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [98.235.149.216]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mtaout-db04.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPSA id 1C217E0000CD; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 17:12:52 -0500 (EST) References: <50F080C2.1080007@charter.net> <50F08BD3.9000200@charter.net> From: Body Wagner Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 17:19:14 -0500 To: Glenn Franco x-aol-global-disposition: G s=20121107; t=1357942372; bh=iCz89AMRmOFkEHnFOyKTOwsA8MxjEfLz6SxoxUZsQWA=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=QhTyuxyrG7m7ASP5BbiF6ZOu7MvNlTf0R/3oPM9GAo21zIsS/mcGC4eVy9ddBoy7U rWu9l+bfm2KaSCd++6r/fk7KBX12YAGQL9NpqtBWsClaUrqGwT0vJ9yHxs4eIFaud0 GEv27bTz8bve3RfCGOlNJYc+ssaDjfCjIYc3JVqc= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33c450f08e641397 Cc: "spitfires@autox.team.net" , Doug Braun , "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net>, Friends of triumph Subject: Re: [6pack] [Fot] [Spits] County Pistons Quality Control Issue Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Where are AE pistons made? Boyd C Wagner Sent from my iPad On Jan 11, 2013, at 5:01 PM, Glenn Franco wrote: > Yes the County Rockers are made in India. > They usually have better quality control than most. > > On 1/11/2013 4:33 PM, Doug Braun wrote: >> Another horror story: >> >> A while back I replaced my Spit's rocker arm shaft with the part that >> most vendors sold. I believe it was "County" >> branded, and it was made in India. I went to adjust the valves a few >> days later, and I noticed that the front four rocker arms >> seemed rather oil-starved. When I ran the engine with the rocker arm >> cover off, I could see that only the rear four rocker >> arms were getting lubricated. >> It turned out that the shaft was not completely hollow: They had >> rifle-drilled it inwards from each end, but they did not drill >> deep enough, and the two holes did not meet up in the center. >> >> Doug >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Glenn Franco > >> FYI >> I am in the midst of a TR6 Rebuild with an engine that is .020" >> overbored. >> While fitting up the pistons and checking clearances everything >> checked out and the bore was concentric and to specs. >> With the piston installed in the bore I noticed increased drag >> with #1 piston installed. >> With rings gaps, skirt clearance correct I pulled the piston and >> didn't see any issues. >> Further inspection showed that the piston was cocked in the bore >> and had score marks on the bottom of one skirt with the same wear >> just below the oil ring on the other side. >> After inspecting it with the machine shop we noticed that the ring >> grooves were not fully machined on one side of the piston. >> The rings would not move far enough in the groove and was proud of >> the surface causing the piston to cock in the bore. >> We collectively have not seen this before and have a new set of AE >> pistons not County on the way. >> >> Having spent many years in Automotive Engineering at one of the >> former Big Three, these events are usually not one of's. >> There likely are many more out there that ran down the line in the >> same batch at the same time before it was caught. >> >> These are new County Piston sets (I think made in Israel now). >> I would inspect their parts very closely before you install them. >> >> I also noticed machine chips in the machined groove of their >> Tri-Metal Main Bearings (Israel). >> The chips were in the machined groove and were plated over with >> the babbit and copper. >> >> I have had very good experiences with their parts in the past. >> Just thought I would provide a heads up. >> >> Glenn >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $11.47 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spitfires/doug@dougbraun.com > _______________________________________________ > fot@autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/boydwagner3@aol.com ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 11 16:54:25 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 178F040431 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:54:25 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm14-vm0.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com (nm14-vm0.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com [98.139.44.162]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BFE240421 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:52:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [98.139.44.103] by nm14.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2013 16:36:09 -0000 Received: from [98.138.84.183] by tm8.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2013 16:36:09 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp105.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2013 16:36:09 -0000 so2P8JXv0XHBag6rPAZvzk2nPGE_kw5I.5JVMDnufPHdju.h0DU8NOSLOw6f WdN_c0BknpMTw2R.1j_AxOFoXBKXR62nGPlNGr8FGfu9a3WEK8i7tV7IJdZn B1_gkHpeE3Xpl7WyA2XHbWWOXsjk5ee.dT1T8OkCc9h2BKoMC86HYbENYUhn Me8doKQW4uJzDIcTG73NqjGickWmSps.sT2mLgGcCdsB.LhOx0SQeBf_71NL DXP3OTVZeTM8vKStrqG0b7RcJTIzdwgkXgWdl7gwT.CP_lZW7iT_mXwWARLI A3AkSwOH59cJLpJ27rLIsc3H0JYAN9SHayVLAgg_S43JaN7YYTBjGO2Y5jpG .PVXCQCFPn17ngFn5wCzt.Rhmk8GORa.exchCi2QrrNYLKSTQFoOFqXx8Pj6 a.C0qTa_KK9mGO8DFoJhC Received: from [192.168.1.77] (cartravel@99.98.59.54 with plain) by smtp105.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jan 2013 16:36:09 +0000 UTC Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 10:36:19 -0600 From: Larry Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 To: David Fidler References: <1356563886.70654.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <56C5FB52-8598-4594-B6B2-49056894BA1C@lbcs.ca> <010201cdef6c$fc1937f0$f44ba7d0$@com> <6A98954B-6C40-4EC5-8C5C-EC0C10156D66@rogers.com> <50F039EE.9060401@pobox.com> <677B3705-0CA1-4A19-8677-87D74DB0AF1A@rogers.com> Cc: "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net The TR5 did not meet US Emission standards and could not legally be imported into the US. On 1/11/2013 10:27 AM, David Fidler wrote: > Larry, > > I don't think the dealer cared about that. The TR5s were able to exceed US and Canadian emissions standards anyway. The real reason (so I'm told) is they were dumbed down to Stroms because the US dealers created hell about having to maintain the Lucas injection system and the boffins at Triumph acquiesced. > > Best regards, > > David. > > Sent from my iPad ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 11 17:05:58 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A38740439 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 17:05:58 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm29-vm3.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm29-vm3.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.91.159]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 093DD40322 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 17:05:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from [98.138.226.179] by nm29.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2013 16:50:36 -0000 Received: from [98.138.89.232] by tm14.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2013 16:50:36 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1047.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jan 2013 16:50:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 46284 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 2013 16:50:36 -0000 s=s1024; t=1357923036; bh=eh7ZNqpLPhVRoumQXE/N4YlUR8KnistMsQ839Ro56l8=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=5Ypc6ebANJ6ii+oVY4xnafapJSy3+ifedTdT6eRE0gHOh5Evom0x8lDUbWrSnqTag197KT/XS4zrrovMNUNGzexoTQZ0Tb0UWwWE2oG+hRb0S+b86yVaYNIfaUNhxqNtt8faTzgZ+VRMSh+i1iTFyRtOUujU6bC/F53gkSS8L6g= s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=hXO+3NtZEtGY+ORVrnow3Pl8b53nMQWTt97zRB3oSDvuvyVbsFsOQ65lwEJBQQRusjmT239CqJSN8iTln8vt9ukE/yMU4sa0Op7MA2nIEx61ggCkEi86mHmZI7+QdLOmaLR5vHum5jDk4qVeIXyYAGGJ+vSaUEoDfUfVUw0kQmA=; VgmOsz78RLS_KoAoTY4eSi1N7HDD2zqMvWYg8yIEu3DQyZZEuGD.tDSKNa2v KJxAl349u0MZkxMVN1TiduwgmsZfJ4hhGGEcpJt6fbbTIZlMCROgz9twti4J kmp_WGWsN1sP05AiW_MOF8LoXpTlVk.TnZY.L_Woy63k_arMPVGAIHevw.Vo vTB2f.Qeqtx1TE.HrfOCQrQAAJ0yEKTk2shwcv5rnAY.K02Ux1lT7huLkn_c 5z9IlbBOaihz8TGfPWSVWIjU.wfq1j7FbeoUhnPRMinMz9SiZT3L2GTXiuUT cCMeFtBaOSLdRUeqRhfBo59FRELRiis2iQOIMwLxE8gdhZ9hxe9aAGUBoy5q 3nwIsfdcWKNXIL3.gqrs0HSPVJwsaUC5kt5q6LfmbTmeQea9LOccOLueuOLI uFmALTFEAyNo3CQ60xhSplRbTYTzqRoCkGSkFUMzlVEFn2FS70rqvLkJ1BGj VF3iB Received: from [71.17.44.75] by web121603.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 08:50:36 PST UmFuIGludG8gYSBnYXJhZ2Ugb3duZXLCoG9uIFZhbmNvdXZlciBJc2xhbmTCoHdobyB3YXMgYSBMZXlsYW5kwqBkZWFsZXIgbWVjaGFuaWMgaW4gVmFuY291dmVyIGNpcmNhIDE5NzAuwqDCoCBIZSBzYWlkIHRoYXQgQkwgYnJvdWdodCBpbiBhIFRSNSAob3IgZWFybHkgVFI2IFBJPywgY2FuJ3QgcmVtZW1iZXIpIGFzIGEgbWFya2V0aW5nIHRvb2wuwqDCoMKgIEl0IHdhcyBldmVudHVhbGx5IHNvbGQgbG9jYWxseSwgYW5kLCB0aGUgZGVhbGVyIG1lY2hhbmljcyBjdXNzZWTCoHRoZSBMdWNhcyBQScKgYXMgaXQBMAEBAQE- Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 08:50:36 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Simms To: "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: [6pack] TR5 in Canada Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Ran into a garage owner on Vancouver Island who was a Leyland dealer mechanic in Vancouver circa 1970. He said that BL brought in a TR5 (or early TR6 PI?, can't remember) as a marketing tool. It was eventually sold locally, and, the dealer mechanics cussed the Lucas PI as it was troublesome for them! I would doubt they had the specialized PI training and tools of a dealership in Britain or other markets. Triumph wasn't the only one to have issues with early fuel injection systems. I recall wishing my 74 Volvo had twin SUs. Cheers, Bruce Simms ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jan 11 20:35:42 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AEC34053C for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 20:35:42 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from imr-ma06.mx.aol.com (imr-ma06.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.142]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4563340510 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 20:35:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaomg-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.141]) by imr-ma06.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 618461C0000AB for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 22:31:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-mcc003a.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mcc003.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.40.85]) by mtaomg-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 35824E000087 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 22:31:49 -0500 (EST) From: Jimandruthhome@aol.com Full-name: Jimandruthhome Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 22:31:47 -0500 (EST) To: 6pack@autox.team.net x-aol-global-disposition: G s=20121107; t=1357961509; bh=1q5UFaToGQTN9AHRuMoHhQlw/98lcNiBvzukCsTMTm0=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=QZSOTwS4I+a/QckrtfXkktRZtEfAzEioGvabtblJHe8uZiy/a6rNjAGThJdf7eJlg bNp9unyveLjy32oCx9Jwp8otragWNjmTA95BR/DtgumXi7ZCFCf5T3EmWwbGesAVeZ 65Z6Y47O7/k3JYmNxAKSKb7vm0JiMBMm2Cqhus2M= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338d50f0d9257c6b Subject: Re: [6pack] 6pack Digest, Vol 5, Issue 3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Hi, I have a good friend of 30 years, from whom I learned a lot about cars, especialy LBC's. We met because my new to me, but 11 years old and well thrashed, 1971 TR6 had stumped me. He had recently gone out on his own. This was early 1980's, and he worked mostly on LBC's, but also on other cars from across the pond. He did a fair amount of business with BMW 2002 tii owners. They had, if I remember rightly, Bosch mechanical injection. He was, and is, an unusually talented mechanic ( we campaigned everything from a BMW 325is to an IROC Camaro in the, sadly long since gone, IMSA show room stock endurance series). Anyway, he was one of a very few guys in the NYC area who could tame the Bosch mechanical injection without extensive factory training (he had none) and so got a lot of business on that score. He was also adept at fixing the infamous, rotting BMW 2002 rear shock towers. Maybe the Brits were right to be skeptical about the willingness of US dealers/mechanics to deal with Bosch mechanical injection. I know Corvettes had mechanical injection from way back, but were their injection systems Bosch? I'm thinking that back in the 50's and early 60's everything from overseas was pretty suspect, at least re service, so either GM had their own injection system, or it was licensed from Bosch or another overseas company but the source was never mentioned out loud. Not a Corvette guy, so just speculating about that. Jim Knight 71 TR6 ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jan 12 07:09:10 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77C5840556 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 07:09:10 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from dfn.com (mail.dfn.com [74.116.128.7]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F39840545 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 07:09:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.0.2] [199.83.117.102] by dfn.com with ESMTP (SMTPD-11.5) id eaee00a12e95d143; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 07:05:42 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 07:05:54 -0700 From: Michael Porter User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 To: Jimandruthhome@aol.com References: <6c3f.66ff6de2.3e223323@aol.com> Cc: 6pack@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [6pack] 6pack Digest, Vol 5, Issue 3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net On 1/11/2013 8:31 PM, Jimandruthhome@aol.com wrote: > > Maybe the Brits were right to be skeptical about the willingness of US > dealers/mechanics to deal with Bosch mechanical injection. I know Corvettes > had mechanical injection from way back, but were their injection systems > Bosch? I'm thinking that back in the 50's and early 60's everything from > overseas was pretty suspect, at least re service, so either GM had their own > injection system, or it was licensed from Bosch or another overseas company > but the source was never mentioned out loud. Not a Corvette guy, so just > speculating about that. Jim, I tend to think the business about unwillingness to learn fuel injection is more apocryphal than substantive. The technology was changing in a lot of ways by then (note that 4As had had, for example, several years of IRS suspension by the time PI showed up), and the savvier mechanics would have been eager to keep up. The factory may have been reluctant to provide training because of the cost, but my experience in dealerships is that there were always a few people who wanted to stay current, and the truth is, one didn't have to have a shop full of mechanics capable of fuel injection work--one just needed at least one guy who could do it. As for Corvettes, IIRC, fuel injection was a special option in the year of introduction in 1957, and there were about a thousand made that year. It was a Rochester system first developed by, in part, Zora Arkus-Duntov, but the development was initially begun for Pontiac, I think, because Pontiac's sales were flagging and GM was beginning a program (run by John Delorean) to attract younger buyers to Pontiacs . A slightly different system (better fuel metering in cold weather) was actually installed on the new 1957 model, the Bonneville, on 600 units, one for each dealer. Unlike either Lucas or Bosch at the time, the Rochester system was continuous injection, with the injector nozzle positioned very near the intake valve, and fuel metering done by vacuum signals from the air metering unit to several diaphragms operating levers controlling the fuel valves. Compared with the Lucas PI system, it was actually a lot more fidgety and fiddly, with lots more moving parts and multiple vacuum signals. Cheers. -- Michael Porter Roswell, NM Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance.... ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jan 12 09:07:52 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E56740645 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 09:07:52 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com (hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com [71.74.56.122]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD72B40559 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 09:07:46 -0700 (MST) a=B3cZvtR7CnT5WnMNErIZnA==:17 a=0cZmuKrZTK8A:10 a=x9yGrEW5UoYA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=u64kjwLpqMYA:10 a=sLkM-TS1QoeFIySZOGUA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=B3cZvtR7CnT5WnMNErIZnA==:117 Received: from [76.84.49.244] ([76.84.49.244:49347] helo=livingroompc) by hrndva-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 4B/06-03129-88981F05; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 16:04:25 +0000 From: "Greg Lemon" To: "Greg Lemon" , "Michael Porter" , Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 10:04:25 -0600 Cc: 6pack@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [6pack] 6pack Digest, Vol 5, Issue 3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Michael, Jim, all, the idea that the fuel injection would be too fiddly for US dealers is attributed to Bruce McWilliams, who was one of Triumph's marketing/distributor guys back in the 60s, and presumably would know. I just happened to be reading the "Triumph TR250/TR6 Companion" this week and that is what it says, adding that their "moral was low at that time" and they didn't need another issue to deal with, but in other sections it talks about the cost it would add to the car, and also I believe does make some mention of bigger climate differences in the States being a potential issue. It does state that the system could have been made to meet US emissions with only a modest loss in power. My theory is that the cumulative effect of the all the various things, additional cost both in development, and to the car, the time that development would take, plus the additional burden on the dealer and or potential hit in reputation if dealers didn't keep them running well, that contributed to the decision to offer the TR250 with Strombergs in the US. Maybe the dealer issue was the last one that was brought to the table and therefore broke the camel's back, but that is pure speculation on my part. If it would not have been that hard to meet emissions with the fuel injection it is too bad they didn't offer it along with the carburated car, kind of like they did with the BMW 2002 and 2002tii, I think they could have shifted a few more units and helped the reputation of the British sports car in the US (all the contemporary road test reports were talking about the dated designs of the MGs and Triumphs and low specific output, dated designs, and not so stellar straight line performance by then). When introduced the TR2 could outdrag any American car to 60 mph according to one magazine. Of course the American horsepower race a started shortly thereafter and Triumphs and MGs were left in the dust for straight line performance soon thereafter, but the fuel injected TR could have at least kept performance up in the same ballpark as the early Porsche 911s and the soon to be introduced Z car. Greg Lemon ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jan 12 14:20:17 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52E0340651 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 14:20:17 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm10.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com (nm10.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com [98.139.44.137]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89BCA40541 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 14:19:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from [98.139.44.98] by nm10.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2013 21:16:15 -0000 Received: from [67.195.15.60] by tm3.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2013 21:16:15 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp101.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2013 21:16:15 -0000 iFMnE7WXEOZ23rzIuLS4KgeqQ30WPXDcMPLi_cwwSlQPNYVmeZy2SKAdVWfN KeGSQltw4I3trZ_pcdJ3doYnoI9ZZwuV4hjNOUi4_rja9blVr_uNbjYZ_Mhr cE6UDZxBpbn8267ua3psp4FB4THr.9kHhFB2XJmYrgMaVas1oKDXAn0lyakO cdzT12ZRas9WkfabxI0go8aGSydry8WxmPH0hSZEKbYl90_SjjDJXJScZpcG CGKTSnKuwx1b5y2tPww_K4kqCdhkAB0HkrXMh1eGfeJp2bdipH8ogOmvSGnx nUex4v7QlGO_qSt9RZCL9KTYUTfV9JZq7j0u__p2GYghI_TIeEKPWZsht8kV bobKDojLIKSj.em_3ZtkP9DxSSPwwOWGcb0rcwBtl.UVM6swfGi1uyBTT3p8 4QGItzpvCaobi0idvaqdR Received: from [192.168.1.77] (cartravel@99.98.59.54 with plain) by smtp101.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2013 13:16:15 -0800 PST Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 15:16:27 -0600 From: Larry Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 To: DJFidler@rogers.com References: <1356563886.70654.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <56C5FB52-8598-4594-B6B2-49056894BA1C@lbcs.ca> <010201cdef6c$fc1937f0$f44ba7d0$@com> <6A98954B-6C40-4EC5-8C5C-EC0C10156D66@rogers.com> <50F039EE.9060401@pobox.com> <677B3705-0CA1-4A19-8677-87D74DB0AF1A@rogers.com> <50F03F83.8020301@pobox.com> <027b01cdf039$827525d0$875f7170$@com> Cc: 6pack@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net I have owned my TR250 since it was new and many of the period road tests stated that emissions was the reason for using carbs on the TR250. Ironically, fuel injection is now the cleaner system, but it was at a much more primitive stage of development in 1968. There were many other modifications required to meet US emissions - cam, compression, ignition, etc. I don't believe there were any appreciable differences in fuels. My 250 was delivered in Coventry and was driven all over Europe before shipment back to the states. It required premium everywhere which was leaded in those days. It has never run as well on lead free premium. Larry On 1/11/2013 2:23 PM, David Fidler wrote: > Are you sure about that Larry? I've never actually seen the test results, > have you? > > My guess is that the problem was more to do with the lower octane (RON) > rating of US fuel. The UK PI TR5s (and TR6s) were designed to run on 4 star > leaded fuel (97 octane), if they didn't meet the US regs, it's most likely > the inferior fuel quality/lower octane was the cause. Europe has as strict, > if not more stringent, emissions regs than the US and the PI TR5s and 6s > passed those. Injected cars typically have better emissions than carbs, > although the Lucas system was totally mechanical and therefore didn't have > any of the modern electronic emissions control systems.y > > Just sayin' > > Fid. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Young [mailto:cartravel@pobox.com] > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 11:36 AM > To: David Fidler > Cc: 6pack@autox.team.net > Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 > > The TR5 did not meet US Emission standards and could not legally be > imported into the US. > > On 1/11/2013 10:27 AM, David Fidler wrote: >> Larry, >> >> I don't think the dealer cared about that. The TR5s were able to exceed US > and Canadian emissions standards anyway. The real reason (so I'm told) is > they were dumbed down to Stroms because the US dealers created hell about > having to maintain the Lucas injection system and the boffins at Triumph > acquiesced. >> Best regards, >> >> David. >> >> Sent from my iPad ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jan 12 14:38:57 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FD734056A for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 14:38:57 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm4-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm4-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.237.138]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DFE64054B for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 14:38:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.94.237.192] by nm4.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2013 21:35:09 -0000 Received: from [98.139.221.49] by tm3.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2013 21:35:09 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp102.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2013 21:35:08 -0000 KdYjy57f124GgatEyvWI7X.AltPYwYvqquSn4Jpgk3gY5ieCVsyIxLuXnUc1 WzN2d_EkePHswIcEDs_hdVyi2HJWNTAy_CRcZEr_SYJ9tviHSaS6qvtcPqef LIHuRo4L09EZX0QVtvTN4TpLpGKvW0k214bW3gFN4sptjhQMiOrhXoFIzcqu R4QC7E_RFxeAgLt0aTI.sbYvA5Ore4fCyuxnWDFrHpKmM3nJHmWN96VeTKqa it0Qam6VJ35e8inROyX9249TJJ0rui9c7E4CwJLw38GzJPEOIlb9VuNOfxDO pMMxxjTJ9pzYUyyhVL8GE1tTyBz0cvvKjHmweXCNTljVfeBSzubc4ebevOl6 kBUYyAAYVkwXsqCINvmhM6nFOeY8EfQIn32UGrj0hxLhIaocgfVTFV1ryKyu vIEfA4.MjfFLdOFMdVK_1 Received: from [192.168.1.77] (cartravel@99.98.59.54 with plain) by smtp102.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2013 13:35:08 -0800 PST Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 15:35:21 -0600 From: Larry Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 To: Sally or Dick Taylor References: <1356563886.70654.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <56C5FB52-8598-4594-B6B2-49056894BA1C@lbcs.ca> <010201cdef6c$fc1937f0$f44ba7d0$@com> <6A98954B-6C40-4EC5-8C5C-EC0C10156D66@rogers.com> <50F039EE.9060401@pobox.com> <677B3705-0CA1-4A19-8677-87D74DB0AF1A@rogers.com> <50F03F83.8020301@pobox.com> <027b01cdf039$827525d0$875f7170$@com> <1357937497.88597.YahooMailNeo@web161303.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Cc: "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net I have trouble believing the argument about complexity of maintenance of the PI system. Remember, GM had been using fuel injection on several models since the late 50's. Not to mention all the hot rodders using the Hilborn system. I believe the Lucas system was a step closer to our current modern systems though. With regard to the cost argument, wouldn't you pay just a little bit more for a 40 percent increase in power? The alternative was two additional cylinders, but virtually no increase in power over the previous model. Since they couldn't market performance, you got things like buttons that said "Triumph Over Conformity - TR250". I have a couple of these buttons. Kas Kastner told me he thought the majority of the power increase was not due to the PI system, but other modifications. The conservative cam with little or no overlap comes to mind. Larry ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jan 12 15:01:29 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B72140572 for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 15:01:29 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm5-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm5-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.237.155]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8FC34055C for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 15:00:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.94.237.126] by nm5.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2013 21:57:26 -0000 Received: from [68.142.198.105] by tm1.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2013 21:57:26 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp107.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jan 2013 21:57:26 -0000 CRseTX0d.Kpm.mh0z_x34I8uzjS1gt7eY6eCHP5YicjBhO2_fESx1U0o6qMK sWeM4l33Nt92xGJNZC3rR2GsfgYC84aUG6eDx4mmNAssAB8POG5Jn6D2QCgu hcP6TGuHUUnaoRRAOP6MrXGKp2q6sSyGWNHfDAW.MeRlYwe_iuJTklcPDaHe zgOLFUX.2R62ghHjDCqKuikfPLyiBq_00ysNgR_j_E9GQwQdBRM3K5DdspKX F288AtWAcSlGbPAjV7qfU5bNPfWxm_MW22wYyw3dxkNi5fkSFPUt5Vln2jHO yDhW7rGKudWX7avdzDnDnRy8jYWfgWrE_mvznb5FpyTrG1QRQETCODr4nh4W ZaDUMFLOxI5S1.Pd3CpARanoQp6DN1DDtWgJ0s0tf3xFRiDvjf8TBwM7LDcb YH.4UuGYtn7AxpO7G7bdp Received: from [192.168.1.77] (cartravel@99.98.59.54 with plain) by smtp107.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2013 13:57:26 -0800 PST Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 15:57:39 -0600 From: Larry Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 To: Greg Lemon , Triumph <6pack@autox.team.net> References: <1356563886.70654.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><56C5FB52-8598-4594-B6B2-49056894BA1C@lbcs.ca><010201cdef6c$fc1937f0$f44ba7d0$@com><6A98954B-6C40-4EC5-8C5C-EC0C10156D66@rogers.com> <50F039EE.9060401@pobox.com> <4033E0285D7443F89C9839D816ACB204@livingroompc> Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net I think 1968 was when the EPA certification came about. The engine in my 250 threw a rod in Europe, so I got a replacement engine under warrantee. I was given a special form for US Customs certifying that it met US emission standards. I think the US emission standards have always been more strict than other countries. European cars are now about 40% diesel and it has been very difficult to get them clean enough to import. I have a German diesel with two catalytic converters, one requires a urea tank. It also has a filter for particulates. The Europeans are more concerned about green house gases (carbon dioxide), but less concerned about carbon monoxide which is poisonous. Larry Young On 1/11/2013 8:03 PM, Greg Lemon wrote: > Some web research shows Canada didn't have national auto emission > standards until 1971 so should not have been an issue with the TR5, if > they sold TR250s new in Canada was probably marketing/expediency and > not due to regulations. > > Also, I met the guy that had his bought in Germany and imported to the > US TR5 featured in Hemmings Sports and Exotic a couple of years ago, > he said on import to the USA (this was a number of years ago, don't > know exactly, I think the 80s), they made him replace the fuel > injection with TR250 carbs, vacuum lines, etc, to make it "US EPA > spec" (guess they didn't know/care about the cam) then they cleared > it, apparently with a nod and a wink, and allowing him to keep the > fuel injection, which he re-installed. > > Greg Lemon ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Jan 13 00:38:59 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5407C40E5E for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 00:38:59 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm4.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm4.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.212.163]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1B67C4042F for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 00:38:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [98.139.212.149] by nm4.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2013 07:35:26 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.245] by tm6.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2013 07:35:26 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1054.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2013 07:35:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 58831 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Jan 2013 07:35:26 -0000 s=s1024; t=1358062526; bh=oKh3uZYmz+owRYJfY2U2K3d6p/qxWt4wVHPMg+VLCc4=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Vwyy/zQ81LEySXbgIU9tKYtcgxdsCjF7E1Akl7UvBAPXERsjPUq1OiCd5PtO69cQj/smY1BLCv/mxLfh0oX8xbLSL8p20nQLcccAdJJDFtmnjlxNP9fR+Ilj2AXZwuQ1x1sy49C5KZKSAWrsDJcjIauNpIQQrx0TTSvJkDaMIhY= s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=6U4ARMrv+UOPVUryqttHwxTIWrbefKFSLlqPuz5zMxTqFdw+0/e4Nh4f6PhMGpMorGq6eu9h1bHEQpZ90I5hKfJ0iV9OyjKJWnbLPJq89MpJ8bBUFhv+uyAD74za5S+7DSab+CMlFkoRDdJ2FruYADahVUaZ2pCRq6Au57LdoB0=; .cIGR5NmtrrOaxSJB_cqh4w9uZApZt1sTKb0eWPCmCHClFm2a4NrZsl5Q4Ug j50gB4fwLAPJJIJpC3sE2Yjlt1537Qy4QmS4POzMSfr473ga6DMHRPmabThQ XPC7B0dMT0jfdqNjwKBuWMt4P1.hpp27v2OtXzSr1uGt9P.B.QeJmVKpgq_h F4yyLYyT0jhqRuJmgOxJ32A6LtUxfdrY_2pfzxshYjnBNKWnbvCf0DuQgjET LrD8BnE00SEywNsvlCNOQDEJnGaiCBDVzLRUGRXU8mh1YgknUwLHiLGFCWvt 8hAofEbzDWmtaYym9PSMlxMAe21obVEJ7FnYKK9ACFu1V7JfyF7I1RnpOjKa PTHWj1kaRnwxgB.OzgpAk3TUPoFHGF.aZl15fbi_VcIIrSsC4_nHrkd6uR56 TEKWL1I8Oe2cNBWXb Received: from [75.83.58.175] by web161305.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 12 Jan 2013 23:35:25 PST TGFycnkgLS0tIFdvdWxkIEkgcGF5ICJqdXN0IGEgbGl0dGxlIGJpdCBtb3JlIiBmb3IgYSA0MCUgaW5jcmVhc2UgaW4gcG93ZXI_IFByb2JhYmx5IHNvLCBidXQgSSB3b3VsZCd2ZSBiZWVuIGluIHRoZSBtaW5vcml0eSBiYWNrIGluIHRoZSBsYXRlIHNpeHRpZXMgd2hlbiBpdCB3YXMganVzdCBhYm91dCBhcyBjaGVhcCB0byBnZXQgYSBWOCBDaGV2ZSBvciBNdXN0YW5nLiBDb3N0LCBvciBkZWFsZXIgcHJvZml0LCBoYWQgdG8gYmUgYSBmYWN0b3Igd2hlbiBjb21wZXRpbmcgd2l0aCBvdGhlciAoZm9yZWlnbikBMAEBAQE- References: <1356563886.70654.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <56C5FB52-8598-4594-B6B2-49056894BA1C@lbcs.ca> <010201cdef6c$fc1937f0$f44ba7d0$@com> <6A98954B-6C40-4EC5-8C5C-EC0C10156D66@rogers.com> <50F039EE.9060401@pobox.com> <677B3705-0CA1-4A19-8677-87D74DB0AF1A@rogers.com> <50F03F83.8020301@pobox.com> <027b01cdf039$827525d0$875f7170$@com> <1357937497.88597.YahooMailNeo@web161303.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <50F1D719.9070202@pobox.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 23:35:25 -0800 (PST) From: Sally or Dick Taylor To: Larry Young Cc: "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Larry --- Would I pay "just a little bit more" for a 40% increase in power? Probably so, but I would've been in the minority back in the late sixties when it was just about as cheap to get a V8 Cheve or Mustang. Cost, or dealer profit, had to be a factor when competing with other (foreign) sports cars. A "conservative cam" must've helped sell some later models of the TR6, so far as emissions regulations was concerned. Power dropped to 125 as I recall. The CR was also reduced during this period. I don't know if even these detuned engines could pass mustard on emissions in California. The SMOG, or emissions testing, didn't start here until 1986. I had to take out the S2 cam recently installed to get my '73 to pass the sniff (HC and CO) test. Tim H. is getting his money's worth on this topic. Right Tim!? Dick Taylor >________________________________ > From: Larry Young >To: Sally or Dick Taylor >Cc: "DJFidler@rogers.com" ; "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> >Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:35 PM >Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 > >I have trouble believing the argument about complexity of maintenance of the PI system. Remember, GM had been using fuel injection on several models since the late 50's. Not to mention all the hot rodders using the Hilborn system. I believe the Lucas system was a step closer to our current modern systems though. > >With regard to the cost argument, wouldn't you pay just a little bit more for a 40 percent increase in power? The alternative was two additional cylinders, but virtually no increase in power over the previous model. Since they couldn't market performance, you got things like buttons that said "Triumph Over Conformity - TR250". I have a couple of these buttons. > >Kas Kastner told me he thought the majority of the power increase was not due to the PI system, but other modifications. The conservative cam with little or no overlap comes to mind. > >Larry ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Jan 13 09:07:52 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 106B240E58 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 09:07:52 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.27.212]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 843C540E50 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 09:07:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from omta18.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.74]) by qmta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id nU0N1k0011bwxycAEU3rxq; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 16:03:51 +0000 Received: from [10.0.1.17] ([66.56.8.22]) by omta18.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id nU3o1k00c0UXH428eU3pV9; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 16:03:50 +0000 From: Ashford Little <70tr6@comcast.net> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:03:48 -0500 References: <1356563886.70654.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <56C5FB52-8598-4594-B6B2-49056894BA1C@lbcs.ca> <010201cdef6c$fc1937f0$f44ba7d0$@com> <6A98954B-6C40-4EC5-8C5C-EC0C10156D66@rogers.com> <50F039EE.9060401@pobox.com> <677B3705-0CA1-4A19-8677-87D74DB0AF1A@rogers.com> <50F03F83.8020301@pobox.com> <027b01cdf039$827525d0$875f7170$@com> <1357937497.88597.YahooMailNeo@web161303.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <50F1D719.9070202@pobox.com> To: Larry Young s=q20121106; t=1358093031; bh=4wWLi6Ks3rJ8Um3RWfhwtjm5XIjtJ5kTQKUMwJVQttg=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:Date: Message-Id:To; b=RXcMPfSUcK/660D2K27eKnvRbF4q+m1l/Y4qTDAgmhLFTGH2RtD7q8k/i6FakzCse rMzcdMwtLXQnnp5s2WICVBmlgdWWRYaA31gaY6NBxn9Cx7wKFjq7/RIAr4Zk9e8j6g DTav7Kk6K/SqBeSj6+7N/T1R0cG90OjakODeuoUjyKUC1SBVmatQO3puSN6YVHo9Bh XRBGnTLUkNHPiue7//7kG6NHW8GLlAGcOFj6dbABdLnvzzX6SDMgay5tpUxms39jVb MUlQn8sYCkBOnHOJI8wF8lDuDr9YnSzKE5jIYU+yxHijbyNWBjDSxBsK9nEEYJ78UM 93Yqs7bnwSY2g== Cc: "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net The 40% increase in power probably wasn't accurate. IIRC, the way horsepower was measured was changed about this time from Gross to Net. I think the later PI cars were quoted at about 125hp, which is still a nice bump. The cost of the PI system was not the only cost that was involved. Dealer training would have added to the cost, but another factor that I think was hurting Triumph & BL was the Pound to Dollar ratio. Over the next couple of years these cars went up in price dramatically while they were trying to keep losing market share to the new Japanese market entrants. Ashford Little 70tr6@comcast.net On Jan 12, 2013, at 4:35 PM, Larry Young wrote: > I have trouble believing the argument about complexity of maintenance of the PI system. Remember, GM had been using fuel injection on several models since the late 50's. Not to mention all the hot rodders using the Hilborn system. I believe the Lucas system was a step closer to our current modern systems though. > > With regard to the cost argument, wouldn't you pay just a little bit more for a 40 percent increase in power? The alternative was two additional cylinders, but virtually no increase in power over the previous model. Since they couldn't market performance, you got things like buttons that said "Triumph Over Conformity - TR250". I have a couple of these buttons. > > Kas Kastner told me he thought the majority of the power increase was not due to the PI system, but other modifications. The conservative cam with little or no overlap comes to mind. > > Larry > > ________________________________________ > > 6pack@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/70tr6@comcast.net ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Jan 13 13:58:33 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EFC840E82 for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 13:58:33 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm29-vm0.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com (nm29-vm0.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com [98.139.44.192]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2814A403E3 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 13:57:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from [98.139.44.104] by nm29.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2013 20:54:27 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.87] by tm9.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2013 20:54:27 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1024.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Jan 2013 20:54:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 8056 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Jan 2013 20:54:26 -0000 s=s1024; t=1358110466; bh=8XTtgPJ483XXrHoKljzfsIwvJajGd+45M8Ch5sT+7TM=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=sHH7zv0fQEwFV89zCfJAeos8KxJhiPLt60eMBjExUltCqtFs2ilxzlA+JOoCd5UHc1J3v0AOAMj/n2MXkTwnuUPtT5ZN3/KHv2Wy1oCeOLKarSyGthdLjHnPjIkdfbqMUpr0NGTF1MV/nWfhV1fGt/lJjfbBMMxXuRXbKGUBDcw= s=s1024; d=att.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=X3xy4DN11xUOM6zzN3Wz9aLnm1lPbPzbUDPf507+Xj1062gEZ7IJo1pi3Y0OMVtZ5FLohnHm+8YMFKgnjAki5PBLw03Jwq0q+a5VRUupEBgdNFj9kcBGriG2O3op0yVAPgCTigJ4VFrXsIhM8NY+1TKGqhzaISPcNflvpFBsWfg=; lMc.ldl0RThghO7jnsDdF_IPs4nz9iRXLXTG2broWNQNzACyUPf2r.x7s5Po xzafij6JybGaoAWao5SjsHObCJ2QNvu4owxrJBiBlGuIXtTj3DfT_bB5Hu1c nc2Q.LvtlivKmMAoP3AJyiaPA_WhabetgKHtCOzXzMwRWO.sDX6xiLWfJhwE HakyyuvEX0b.mQvF3OGGXYD7oTp8arbaMksretTEfhfG_gIWz23l_wITp5.f nCSyWtALO66uTWWniMncH4N7EML8SCDmleJio5t8VovYbWYyFnlSV4sJ3cDE C54JPBaQfzmeL9VDbiprCTuRJhMU74Sn9MzhDOZwbtfMnFmO.qjGIfNjf45W rbH6Tgd1ejfSAErGUT6SA2_bqayDttTx2ipVcqB7UwXj1YvWxKhG9vd93Wg- - Received: from [66.31.70.128] by web185002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:54:26 PST TW9zdCBvZiB0aGUgcmVhc29ucyBmb3IgdGhlIFRSMjUwIHZzIFRSNSBoYXZlIGJlZW4gdG91Y2hlZCB1cG9uIGhlcmUuDQrCoA0KQnJ1Y2UgTWNXaWxsaWFtcyBoYWQgYSBsYXJnZSByb2xlIGluIHRoaXMgZGVjaXNpb24uwqAgSGlzIGpvYiB3YXMgbm90IHRvIGNhdGVyIHRvIHBlcmZyb21hbmNlIGVudGh1c2lhc3RzLCBpdCB3YXMgdG8gc2VsbCBjYXJzIGFuZCBpbiAxOTY3IGhlIGhhZCBhIGJpZyBwcm9ibGVtLsKgIFRoZSBUUjQgd2FzIGVzc2VudGlhbGx5IHRoZSBzYW1lIGNhciB0aGF0wqB0aGV5IGxhdW4BMAEBAQE- Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:54:26 -0800 (PST) From: John Cyganowski To: 6pack@autox.team.net Cc: janah@att.net Subject: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Most of the reasons for the TR250 vs TR5 have been touched upon here. Bruce McWilliams had a large role in this decision. His job was not to cater to perfromance enthusiasts, it was to sell cars and in 1967 he had a big problem. The TR4 was essentially the same car that they launched in 1961. Okay it got IRS - whoopie! This was the muscle car era and the young men wanted power, not a noisey 4 banger. Triumph had thousands of unsold TR4s and something had to be done. A 6 cylinder was a step in the right direction. Mechanical fuel injection had been around in aircraft since WWII, but it was relatively new for automobiles. It is true GM offered mechanical fuel injection in the corvettes as an option. For mass production it had to be cheap and reliable. In 1967 it was neither. And it was not reliable until GM started coming out with electronic fuel injection in the late 70s early 80s. For Triumph, North America was the market for sportscars, not the rest of the World. The potential for a "black eye" and slow sales over service issues won out over performance. Time proved McWillliams correct. There were all kinds of fuel injection issues in the EU. It took the company quite a while to sort out these issues. The Kimberly book goes into this a little bit. Now a days we know how to make the Lucas PI system function like it should but PI would have been a disaster in North America in 1968. Instead it was a contained problem in a relatively small market. John Cyg 70 Damson CC52927LO ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Jan 13 18:06:25 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B3F040EAF for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 18:06:25 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm4-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm4-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.213.129]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8A6F140EAA for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 18:06:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from [98.139.212.150] by nm4.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2013 01:02:50 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.210] by tm7.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2013 01:02:49 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1019.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2013 01:02:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 40681 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Jan 2013 01:02:49 -0000 s=s1024; t=1358125369; bh=jjx/AcjYBK6++XK3+aLVWw4nIfpFZTo/1gwrN0QgxDE=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=pUf6DMTlm4UdlHuWoY+3qjyRHJIuzfzwPxTuD56dzusX+dR+4kN8PFqksJPirJjnlrsyYIXRyknzUUaYpdXTyXdIMKtdVZdkv4tzeei2QFHJ2TGVPcUtIOodo2t2WUw3GZfmH0/zROfA9SAFW3stCJFQ0yYAs5IFlN2ID0thK6s= s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=J5wFSl+wB7F6HLUfHhzwYWZwM7GRm7fST76v9UPb7r5w/cCWCkZY3Ec1hvaKZiCuQm0uFEMFiFoK4HC0rFkmNWZT3pcLO6Z7iT5WGByHvd64oq41nxBswNG8x9fs1OdMvpWs3OG6sUiaPY8meR3ZTNY10r2qJjvQRDp6xTN1b/w=; m56YrOprHwrRYdgCmPCphFzSY6jhJlMGBLFzCeN8NaKxg.J8rTAgLpU5Mb3S 8FFovlGeLvknGkXzJVPkSH.2xlf_yXtGx96ro_V5eUDAcD.eEwcIhfY4xuJU dydj6ZOJTzabj7P9Ua9M5kchPF4LjutbiQSiOth0Z8lv0l86sPxe6kNyPgq2 lLSede.0g39pqi1FFu7IG9k8hqBxqfv5z4kbw_d1yONru5mmXfYwYLFqrTAm 8MOfHnNnxMdn58makAOpuBcnyjtm2vYgLkjvDBEF1WvR1_plDsIanZAyt4Y7 uJbAUMMbtzkikW4wFJgCOQ6wQyTS6f57f6kbJVDd6a9hVpyEGXLriyxzxH0N dBBK.eVIYHOQCg2MuF9vASa62gzN9qestdT81gVoyrCAfPFZHNwjT9x3jAup ojlptmC511m6MOZJqL.e2otRAdyUG1j7mA8qg5Dr3qJesbZ_cTDQNQHAnuaY - Received: from [99.101.57.204] by web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:02:49 PST SSB3YXMgcXVpdGUgc3VycHJpc2VkLWFuZCBwbGVhc2VkIHllc3RlcmRheSB0byBmaW5kIHRoZSA2cGFjayBiYWNrIGluIG15IGluIGJveC4gwqBGZWVsIGxpa2UgSSdtIHBhcnQgb2YgdGhlIGNvbW11bml0eSBhZ2FpbjopIEl0IHdhcyBhIHJvdWdoIHllYXIgZm9yIG15IFRSNi4gTW9zdGx5IG5vdCBydW5uaW5nLiBGaW5hbGx5LCBvbiAxMC8xIEkgaGFkIGl0IGhhdWxlZCB0byAiVGhlIEVuZ2xpc2ggR2FyYWdlIiBoZXJlIGluIEphY2tzb252aWxsZSBhbmQgdG9sZCB0aGUgb3duZXItSSB3YW50IG15IGNhciABMAEBAQE- Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 17:02:49 -0800 (PST) From: John Summers To: "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: [6pack] Somehow:) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net I was quite surprised-and pleased yesterday to find the 6pack back in my in box. Feel like I'm part of the community again:) It was a rough year for my TR6. Mostly not running. Finally, on 10/1 I had it hauled to "The English Garage" here in Jacksonville and told the owner-I want my car to start. Start more than once or twice per trip. Also had a brake booster that went bad. So, he tinkered with it until November,,,,,,,,,,,but I got it back and it has been dependable. He took out the Pertronix Electronic ignition and put back points. May have cleaned out the fuel tank also. Still-as always-having trouble with the rear lights. Got "lights" when the headlights are on. No brake or turn signal. Maybe I need new bulbs:) Even though it badly needs new paint, I have gotten several nice comments about it in the last three days. If they only knew:)) Anyway, that's my story. John Summers '74 TR6 ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 14 07:16:08 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7232442488 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 07:16:08 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from isis.mit.edu (ISIS.MIT.EDU [18.142.2.157]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21F7942467 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 07:16:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from ISIS.MIT.EDU (ISIS.MIT.EDU [18.142.2.157]) by isis.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r0EECSWc023217; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 09:12:28 -0500 Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 09:12:28 -0500 (EST) From: "Robert M. Lang" To: Larry Young References: <1356563886.70654.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <56C5FB52-8598-4594-B6B2-49056894BA1C@lbcs.ca> <010201cdef6c$fc1937f0$f44ba7d0$@com> <6A98954B-6C40-4EC5-8C5C-EC0C10156D66@rogers.com> <50F039EE.9060401@pobox.com> <677B3705-0CA1-4A19-8677-87D74DB0AF1A@rogers.com> <50F03F83.8020301@pobox.com> <027b01cdf039$827525d0$875f7170$@com> <1357937497.88597.YahooMailNeo@web161303.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <50F1D719.9070202@pobox.com> Cc: "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net On Sat, 12 Jan 2013, Larry Young wrote: [stuff deleted] > Kas Kastner told me he thought the majority of the power increase was not due > to the PI system, but other modifications. The conservative cam with little > or no overlap comes to mind. And the 9.5:1 compression... that's 10 or 15 HP right there with no other mods (in all likelyhood). Just sayin. > Larry regards, rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent Former NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 14 09:59:40 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEDA24247F for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 09:59:40 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com (cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com [75.180.132.120]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A78D84051E for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 09:59:34 -0700 (MST) a=RzuCBmk8BqrbXbc/omhOxw==:17 a=OAfj9AB39i4A:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=Ug7041tn85bwDTXw5_gA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=2n_w7iwWyakA:10 a=RzuCBmk8BqrbXbc/omhOxw==:117 Received: from [65.191.60.205] ([65.191.60.205:43425] helo=[10.0.1.3]) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 24/1B-25866-2A834F05; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 16:56:02 +0000 From: Douglas Morris Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 11:56:02 -0500 To: 6pack <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: [6pack] '71 TR-6 for sale Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Feller in Troy, NC (near Southern Pines and Asheboro) has a yellow '71 TR-6 for sale. I don't know anything about it (he came up to me in my -6 in a parking lot), but he said it's mostly restored and runs well. Evidently, a health issue prevents his driving it any more. Just throwin' it out there. Don't ask me about it, m'kay? I know noth-thing. Contact: John Ellis, 910-673-0417 Doug Morris, NC ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 14 12:19:35 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A86A2424B0 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 12:19:35 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm8.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm8.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.237.209]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A54E4042B for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 12:19:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.94.237.201] by nm8.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2013 19:15:34 -0000 Received: from [68.142.198.200] by tm12.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2013 19:15:34 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp101.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2013 19:15:34 -0000 XbM0UEu_7kHqGhkjoGQUCvEONIFTMaSJinVHQCd01_OhmBPsSLZpD_cYeusz ShF4.7n2_cRDRr7JBGBffJjl5WKiCxyeNEbs7rMQKcXwiz0MOWpZ5YKNyLYD CJsgNZ0aZ9WkiF.qL38dsYaNxNefycvVXVeNsso1lAJ786QzpkkOCNlrZHse BvcfiReUidZ1fAiPtkVPPDQxOBRPSn9hQF_ed8gyPIRjUWJOq_AWG_3N9H1n 44fei5.JIj3nYG0wqYxhs9vOnNc9JgAjPZTXo.TtHgy0d.lk44jb2aTcJV_K m093328I5kR3r1ZxfJjPpSgokTVC1SaauItixutVoH69oHu7BmcF_a1KZwsQ DG.CvBBFLo0zmR1.auOyhiRifRpaXzUvfmVndj7ODpW1H5QU5ZyGlxWqjecc HagFChgxmBcU0Svcx20M5 Received: from [192.168.1.77] (cartravel@99.98.59.54 with plain) by smtp101.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2013 11:15:34 -0800 PST Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 13:15:34 -0600 From: Larry Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 To: Sally or Dick Taylor References: <1356563886.70654.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <56C5FB52-8598-4594-B6B2-49056894BA1C@lbcs.ca> <010201cdef6c$fc1937f0$f44ba7d0$@com> <6A98954B-6C40-4EC5-8C5C-EC0C10156D66@rogers.com> <50F039EE.9060401@pobox.com> <677B3705-0CA1-4A19-8677-87D74DB0AF1A@rogers.com> <50F03F83.8020301@pobox.com> <027b01cdf039$827525d0$875f7170$@com> <1357937497.88597.YahooMailNeo@web161303.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <50F1D719.9070202@pobox.com> <1358062525.37454.YahooMailNeo@web161305.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Cc: Mike Neal , "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] Canada - TR5 or TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net When I bought my TR250, my dad tried to persuade me to get a Mustang instead. Both he and my brother had them with plain vanilla 2V 289 (185hp) that he said would do 115 mph. I tried to explain that straight line speed was only part of the fun. What about driving on a twisted mountain road? I was in the minority of course. Most guys in my town wanted a pickup with a big V8 and a gun rack. It is a shame that Triumph dropped the ball after introducing the TR2 that would kick ass and then gave its successors very little power improvement. I think you guys are over inflating the cost issue. How much more was a TR5 when currency differences were accounted for? The hot cam certainly didn't cost any more. The TR250 distributor had to cost more with its complicated dual vacuum system. The currency differences were actually a help. When I was planning the purchase of my TR250 the pound dropped from $2.80 to $2.40 (if memory serves), which made the car cheaper. I wish we had someone like Mike Cook involved in this discussion. Larry Young On 1/13/2013 1:35 AM, Sally or Dick Taylor wrote: > Larry --- Would I pay "just a little bit more" for a 40% increase in > power? Probably so, but I would've been in the minority back in the > late sixties when it was just about as cheap to get a V8 Cheve or > Mustang. Cost, or dealer profit, had to be a factor when competing > with other (foreign) sports cars. > > A "conservative cam" must've helped sell some later models of the TR6, > so far as emissions regulations was concerned. Power dropped to 125 as > I recall. The CR was also reduced during this period. > I don't know if even these detuned engines could pass mustard on > emissions in California. The SMOG, or emissions testing, didn't start > here until 1986. I had to take out the S2 cam recently installed to > get my '73 to su pass the sniff (HC and CO) test. > the > Tim H. is getting his money's worth on this topic. Right Tim!? > kik > Dick Taylor ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 14 12:31:59 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B16C542486 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 12:31:59 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm20.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm20.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.237.221]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E7324247D for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Mon, 14 Jan 2013 12:30:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.94.237.201] by nm20.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2013 19:27:18 -0000 Received: from [98.139.244.51] by tm12.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2013 19:27:18 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp113.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Jan 2013 19:27:18 -0000 J7qWvxXoEZTAxNE1xTiVHAErsrwf8pyAGxSfMBEzDf7koQ10ldO7ZfNe2BHs c30p9XEJrKlGMCjhkJYMoAK08hQ4qlUTXHrpFP.ZxwouPSdhijRsAgOOrsuX mJ_7ms3DvizPRElpp7KRNVkWQrGktPYwUreKDJZ2cGJHB6yY7c91eeXQgwsb rRJnPsxyVsSY4iMGW4rP18kONL9aWh5tDn_MqPi6Th4sQaSfZQ4aMjmgW4Av 0DDPIsXdRSYdtZeRnObqngNeG88k3DVTUgAZHEUAwCt22N99wfI6uwqr9Ht1 .YZetSfbwaaCSL1KnS.KTesfa5_kCE..mtpu092JfBvQSFPBIujcxl.5JN0E tgwpwIct20P8wfoePzjifcrBplo9uHIGADCBfJ_.MuN_tAKrISLo.D7zP61Y 2BnS9tRvT4_iGdy6_GW6blZbV9zqti7EBNUssTn1zVvaoQ5N1LPOD99o7TOp 7WWzFawE4iJoWmzx0WXS63Q-- Received: from [192.168.1.77] (cartravel@99.98.59.54 with plain) by smtp113.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Jan 2013 11:27:18 -0800 PST Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 13:27:18 -0600 From: Larry Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 To: 6pack@autox.team.net References: <1358110466.66676.YahooMailClassic@web185002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net I can agree with some of this logic, but the central issue is whether the PI system could have met US EPA regulations. I think the answer is No. Were any other manufacturers using it on their US cars in '68? Fuel injection was a performance enhancement up until the later fully electronic (e.g. Bosch L-Jetronic) systems were developed. On 1/13/2013 2:54 PM, John Cyganowski wrote: > Most of the reasons for the TR250 vs TR5 have been touched upon here. > > Bruce McWilliams had a large role in this decision. His job was not to cater > to perfromance enthusiasts, it was to sell cars and in 1967 he had a big > problem. The TR4 was essentially the same car that they launched in 1961. > Okay it got IRS - whoopie! This was the muscle car era and the young men > wanted power, not a noisey 4 banger. Triumph had thousands of unsold TR4s and > something had to be done. A 6 cylinder was a step in the right > direction. Mechanical fuel injection had been around in aircraft since WWII, > but it was relatively new for automobiles. It is true GM offered mechanical > fuel injection in the corvettes as an option. For mass production it had to be > cheap and reliable. In 1967 it was neither. And it was not reliable until GM > started coming out with electronic fuel injection in the late 70s early 80s. > For Triumph, North America was the market for sportscars, not the rest of the > World. The potential for a "black eye" and slow sales > over service issues won out over performance. Time proved McWillliams > correct. There were all kinds of fuel injection issues in the EU. It took theW > company quite a while to sort out these issues. The Kimberly book goes into > this a little bit. Now a days we know how to make the Lucas PI system function > like it should but PI would have been a disaster in North America in 1968. > Instead it was a contained problem in a relatively small market. > > John Cyg > 70 Damson > CC52927LO > > ________________________________________ > > 6pack@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/cartravel@pobox.com ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 16 06:32:02 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 442FB42981 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 06:32:02 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm29.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com (nm29.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com [98.139.44.156]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1C2F40329 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 06:30:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [98.139.44.105] by nm29.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2013 13:27:18 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.77] by tm10.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2013 13:27:18 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1014.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2013 13:27:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 81923 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Jan 2013 13:27:17 -0000 s=s1024; t=1358342837; bh=oRSEhZiq0rdaOsNmoZA8ZoU8PQ9+AsStXbXqoceQlDM=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=4tELtrv0TBm2e/3O9r85eL2H3lgeZ+MvCvq+O8900LB7XpdRNt1UczF5fxgoG4djViGzBSrUJcfCGyHMCJR5g1tK0KFoq/87XPCiv7kbAvI3+5xgU5/mvYOaUO2oZnX4W8vf811NvOXP45im2L2IfnBEHBErjXWMDEGb0xh/Bn0= s=s1024; d=att.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=rnumbP49P62AFR8RMRF5t1XCzn9YppxrBWriX/0J5DV1nWikVI5Nt0bZN/BD9JX4iN28JOWNL52t2ep8HGNn/N9lKJrImosRvNUhcK+J9lLYlkiofy7UTqEgoFmhA77uNSWTqguZKQfERf3X0pGuxj7wiGHBgqCTl0LnFWBlueI=; c2.JqPZqQXrhLOFyGKYz3qIednQumjV6qVFRHXb_Mo4PdIHZhElwjUsS5v5Q Dy715AcVjXKQgh1uFCaO639r54v1v5ePrSDDCe64_MoX823J8j_jWoJmHTWB SoEMheUqJ53npmWhkUN0Nsv2bzUUW8A4k_k9Cl2kamXt7qqzeNaK7DsN3or3 wQ7MwbE5UeA_5zGcLachCuHV1YSs2Mhwnw8N13djjaq5pjvqCTc51q7lVT88 vSsIM7ycYfItc_OS33633Vz3DLtohPqPGyN27_4yXzLHH_KFkwpyhMV2L9Qa nYBeYNZHTHul25qpThvjn37RmOJ3V2tPDBDGzlAgq0auEMSJY37eZCHD1JXo uDxWwT0QgNjhssbg9IeI9jlXlajVIU9.uUF5v27aN0NZ9GgMo0w5xYC.Yzph f9V1bNALh2w7qUwhkzm1wHHpuQQZO47nlJw-- Received: from [216.2.95.162] by web185002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 05:27:17 PST SW4gbXkgaHVtYmxlIG9waW5pb24sIHRoZSBlbW1pc3Npb25zIHRoaW5nIGlzIGEgZmFibGUgdGhhdCB3YXMgcHVibGlzaGVkwqBhIGxvbmcgdGltZSBhZ28gYW5kIGhhcyBiZWNvbWUgYWNjZXB0ZWQgZmFjdC7CoCBGaXJzdCwgaW4gMTk2NyB0aGVyZSB3YXMgbm8gRVBBLiBFUEEgd2FzIGJlZ3VuIGluIDE5NzAgdW5kZXIgUHJlc2lkZW50IE5peG9uLiBDYXIgZW1taXNzb24gc3RhbmRhcmRzICh0aGUgbGl0dGxlIHRoYXQgdGhleSBoYWQpIGNhbWUgdW5kZXIgdGhlIERlcGFydG1lbnQgb2YgSGVhbHRoIEVkdWMBMAEBAQE- Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 05:27:17 -0800 (PST) From: John Cyganowski To: 6pack@autox.team.net Subject: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net In my humble opinion, the emmissions thing is a fable that was published a long time ago and has become accepted fact. First, in 1967 there was no EPA. EPA was begun in 1970 under President Nixon. Car emmisson standards (the little that they had) came under the Department of Health Education and Welfare (HEW). Oh for the days when government was not so bloated. I think the PI system needed altitude compensation in the US. This would have cost more. But I don't think the PI system could not be tuned. That is what fuel injection is all about - delivering the right amount of fuel at the right time. The issue was sales. McWilliam nixed anything he thought would be a distraction to sales. The home market was small. The home market had troubles with the PI system, but the number of cars produced for that market was small, so the problems were managable. The North American Market by comparison was huge. McWilliams just did not want those issues. He was right. John Cyg. ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 16 12:41:15 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F475425B5 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 12:41:15 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm20-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm20-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.213.165]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 53A2540562 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 12:41:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from [98.139.212.145] by nm20.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2013 19:37:24 -0000 Received: from [98.139.215.250] by tm2.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2013 19:37:24 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1063.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2013 19:37:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 35799 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Jan 2013 19:37:24 -0000 s=s1024; t=1358365044; bh=OWMqaqKFW2bamuAM9E2jgm8I7NZRCzzrjq+emSe1EO4=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Y+Fn8AMCZviOQ+mqDicRGikkYkKbwdLiQHt94pYT1ekpxDKadg39q9nf+UVqC1pxYYQSzp6vuqGZe3u37C/IeyNneKFOAWZGRg2sRZ6p+vPlQ0x4c/aUh5sYE1LXfa81RlnStmtKoc4x9Hr33kaAZlHJu+ePdcG1V1fLOFfsdeM= s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=5aD1Ef+5N9XZUN+9McCDf0Q7yy47EnqN7qQ26a6HA+TKp7SmU8+nBK5i3WdF6KcMmLhaiO476vBWp3Uy1Ifptr0Jdn2nlqYalF3t5QzWELCfcw0rjeT17dBRHM8WZqbPVBsg4zo0SWenvpyOjTt95CdRW24T/rErJ7LL+JsHCTE=; knRrvhJKEoLS7XXyUiBuPy16E1D3PqMGQFV_hFSjujgLj7o5rQxTqcu9eP17 PAxHS9s8Wk5w0PGJivEwTyWN0fCJ9iqAvQmM6epA1uIVR_MTYsjKWC9Lv_pH RmrjlGJsaoPwhNS2ZVslj_If5bVNg9xXUk.pZZck0O4yVtwsJn5Lu04umTgW yS9jQKelV4nCjAU_CBScXesqEFVSKn.3dEl3goHIlzpCLhjglJ6d5I7iQBUB GIwq9Fe3IOOps5iOf54QC8oSaL_35xH_yzL53j7S_VXeV1Wlen5R.ywWsUJq w2SkqRQ8k_gVgbEPxdH3BgOKQxFe6pncDMbiS1gbzcScLTvlwxKgqJF9D0oP iwTuTvlQt9uX5t.covsENwxzFcwyZ4cDENM9BnFoK8KjtuWo1QPPf4Mg6UYw OdhMhfPCgBclkF_iEeiCMkxD_gRyF4P6iR6C0Ibio9vRh147XTikJUsTQNlG 6H3d97obo4rOtQfI- Received: from [75.83.58.175] by web161305.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 11:37:24 PST Sm9obiBtYWtlcyBhIGdvb2QgcG9pbnQuIEluIDE5NjggdGhlIFVTIHdlcmUgc2VsbGluZyBtdXNjbGUgY2FycyB3aXRoIGJpZyBjYW1zLCBtdWx0aSBjYXJicyBhbmQgaGlnaCBjb21wcmVzc2lvbi4gVGhlc2UgZmFjZWQgbm8gZ292ZXJubWVudCByZXN0cmljdGlvbnMgdW50aWwgbGF0ZXIgb24uwqAKCgoKPl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCj4gRnJvbTogSm9obiBDeWdhbm93c2tpIDxqYW5haEBhdHQubmV0Pgo.VG86IDZwYWNrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0IAo.U2VudDogV2VkbmVzZGEBMAEBAQE- References: <1358342837.78808.YahooMailClassic@web185002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 11:37:24 -0800 (PST) From: Sally or Dick Taylor To: John Cyganowski , "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net John makes a good point. In 1968 the US were selling muscle cars with big cams, multi carbs and high compression. These faced no government restrictions until later on. >________________________________ > From: John Cyganowski >To: 6pack@autox.team.net >Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 5:27 AM >Subject: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 > >In my humble opinion, the emmissions thing is a fable that was published a >long time ago and has become accepted fact. First, in 1967 there was no EPA. >EPA was begun in 1970 under President Nixon. Car emmisson standards (the >little that they had) came under the Department of Health Education and >Welfare (HEW). Oh for the days when government was not so bloated. > >I think the PI system needed altitude compensation in the US. This would have >cost more. But I don't think the PI system could not be tuned. That is what >fuel injection is all about - delivering the right amount of fuel at the right >time. > >The issue was sales. McWilliam nixed anything he thought would be a >distraction to sales. The home market was small. The home market had troubles >with the PI system, but the number of cars produced for that market was small, >so the problems were managable. The North American Market by comparison was >huge. McWilliams just did not want those issues. He was right. > >John Cyg. > >________________________________________ > >6pack@autox.team.net > >Donate: >Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/taylorturbo6@yahoo.com ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 16 12:47:55 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0E99425AA for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 12:47:55 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from qmta03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.32]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A11E240690 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 12:45:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from omta21.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.72]) by qmta03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id oj7J1k0011ZXKqc53jhju8; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 19:41:43 +0000 Received: from [10.0.1.17] ([66.56.8.22]) by omta21.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id ojhj1k0060UXH423hjhjYo; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 19:41:43 +0000 From: Ashford Little <70tr6@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 14:41:42 -0500 References: <1358342837.78808.YahooMailClassic@web185002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1358365044.35294.YahooMailNeo@web161305.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> To: Sally or Dick Taylor s=q20121106; t=1358365303; bh=RBGP3+X9OmZzUgpWqc90Z+tNwERx1FajqggqaOkNzOA=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:Date: Message-Id:To; b=MzkNwvuR9R7OUnlUNICP+rEfC/oR35wDmc3CtJ7pseFaVoF0S8yncReNNwsN1prTA srwS86ZnQE2I4Xu5qcuVE9IkJx93jEHyy7JGLSzHXxOsS7DzUXd44iYpT2WD1WisnZ gUqK2GUg/PB6YPAJ2/YeTgiMxa1EngMf2nZf4sX0kiPta9GPx//iqyV5x18veVK1QD bpCfMlCSTkhfgoQu3E6d9LKTTqg6SiVPn2MXmaWQNYOfIpgYs4qH4zCwVKeRew9eCp vU/Xp6RxQec4EGV+3ULt+8XzcRkGbZhW+tF1Zpo3c3qzIiyJf0NgRUHbBOil9f/77H 25lvIAuJCsa4w== Cc: John Cyganowski , "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Yeah, hard to imagine a 440 6-Pack would pass even a gas station... not to mention almost any other big block motor in the US. My first "car" was actually a yacht of the land variety. 1971 Mercury Marquis. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention my father ordered it with the 429ci Mach One motor. Pass an emissions test. Yeah right. Ashford Little 70tr6@comcast.net On Jan 16, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Sally or Dick Taylor wrote: > John makes a good point. In 1968 the US were selling muscle cars with big > cams, multi carbs and high compression. These faced no government restrictions > until later on. > > > >> ________________________________ >> From: John Cyganowski > >> To: 6pack@autox.team.net >> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 > 5:27 AM >> Subject: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 >> >> In my humble opinion, the > emmissions thing is a fable that was published a >> long time ago and has become > accepted fact. First, in 1967 there was no EPA. >> EPA was begun in 1970 under > President Nixon. Car emmisson standards (the >> little that they had) came under > the Department of Health Education and >> Welfare (HEW). Oh for the days when > government was not so bloated. >> >> I think the PI system needed altitude > compensation in the US. This would have >> cost more. But I don't think the PI > system could not be tuned. That is what >> fuel injection is all about - > delivering the right amount of fuel at the right >> time. >> >> The issue was > sales. McWilliam nixed anything he thought would be a >> distraction to sales. > The home market was small. The home market had troubles >> with the PI system, > but the number of cars produced for that market was small, >> so the problems > were managable. The North American Market by comparison was >> huge. McWilliams > just did not want those issues. He was right. >> >> John Cyg. >> >> ________________________________________ >> >> 6pack@autox.team.net >> >> Donate: > http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: > http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/taylorturbo6@yahoo.com > > ________________________________________ > > 6pack@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/70tr6@comcast.net ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 16 13:19:51 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63A68429D9 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 13:19:51 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm23.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm23.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.212.182]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5B8B40E4C for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 13:19:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from [98.139.212.152] by nm23.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2013 20:15:55 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.238] by tm9.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2013 20:15:55 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1047.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2013 20:15:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 80016 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Jan 2013 20:15:54 -0000 s=s1024; t=1358367354; bh=fkufk+jH3pgST5XeBSOfWKLTU9wNsgXGoo+NAYXxH/A=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=NWZHZdWfmfUVinZMCMeETUlt2J8agIiU97vev1VHOVygqrtbc6bJX3KAmiJomy7ArOc05MC/n6kXXvFYPMn8Xdb2MJPQdAAXZxPMWLhL42WM7utSPm9lcymmAajaxOeTegPBgyEIjrV6qQywerB7HITQGyiWZSqg7FgZ2PbRx80= s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=dQ+RqNeG5byA0uQzVAlee0kEGYqnQfZG2V7CLYaH0rhEDifCyZCuGkyEasCZkjiyg/D8LffWDoQxV8pUJZ6EaMAHDlUBcRxobTkRdZzTycYXBTxprtOKhB2JZLIGlYu7wltK2++eIs4Al6Tdlft3/VwyYemsDuEPjq13QRvj7ew=; Xm2HCe0gGAmeen2qpiqu5gvDb3t6Yo3LcSfpjqDUkTDL8K2rywLhyqzaT2Sw eFpC1r0IjlAIZIfNGGgcvAOmEkgLx6VQaVXM3g.lD8ODMUzgcGnF7fxUnNt_ zVKtgOhoavOLf7qR..cN00dCE2EK1pEXommylyn3oRfwetBFfUpkJGcDcPlg 1tKUhtXUAtL5D2phjA9dDnuenXnI1MJ9frQkkkYjpGvki3gp1bClaSTYnfxu 71YO6XGLs6rKir1ypF7OLtjFlQpsLfg2H83wUQKed84MuzO2KHU1yrnbQXSY JMIFBMAXSSi79wrIEAR2od1tkDIWDPFgb6TAsYddsjdsIsQFKmIWIpjdjZW5 Jni.tcAZGo.M3wjBkQBBywN7I6aSCjsxp6NHa7GRxc.wGM8ouOIGiaGUoq8h ePqmG3YjnVEqh8NbN0GJgTmG0MEM9j3rMnd_zc1eSbP1Tjs3hOX6qEiYzIte l_PbESXmm3U7Vx04fCzckW_VtapVW6ZzQGn_HxxPUPOaWADRyP_XlTw9OPxe W8p7BCuUT5r1X Received: from [216.106.92.94] by web142703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 12:15:54 PST VHJ1ZSB0aGF0LiBNWSBkYWQgaGFkIGEgMTk3MCBTZWRhbiBkZSBWaWxsZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBDYWRkeSA0NzIgVjguIEkgbmV2ZXIga25ldyB3aGF0IGl0cyBudW1iZXJzIHdlcmUsIGJ1dCB0aGF0IHdhcyBhIHRvcnF1ZSBiZWFzdC4gSGFyZCB0byBpbWFnaW5lIHRoZSBlbWlzc2lvbnMgdGhhdCBjYXIgcHJvZHVjZWQuDQoNCkppbSBKb25lcw0KCkpvbmVzIEJlbHRvbmUgSGVhcmluZyBhbmQgQXVkaW9sb2d5DQoKSmVmZmVyc29uIENpdHksIE1PDQoNCi0tLSBPbiBXZWQsIDEvMTYvMTMsIEFzaGZvcmQgTGl0dGwBMAEBAQE- Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 12:15:54 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Jones To: Sally or Dick Taylor , Ashford Little <70tr6@comcast.net> Cc: John Cyganowski , "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net True that. MY dad had a 1970 Sedan de Ville with the Caddy 472 V8. I never knew what its numbers were, but that was a torque beast. Hard to imagine the emissions that car produced. Jim Jones Jones Beltone Hearing and Audiology Jefferson City, MO --- On Wed, 1/16/13, Ashford Little <70tr6@comcast.net> wrote: From: Ashford Little <70tr6@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 To: "Sally or Dick Taylor" Cc: "John Cyganowski" , "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> Date: Wednesday, January 16, 2013, 1:41 PM Yeah, hard to imagine a 440 6-Pack would pass even a gas station... not to mention almost any other big block motor in the US. My first "car" was actually a yacht of the land variety. 1971 Mercury Marquis. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention my father ordered it with the 429ci Mach One motor. Pass an emissions test. Yeah right. Ashford Little 70tr6@comcast.net On Jan 16, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Sally or Dick Taylor wrote: > John makes a good point. In 1968 the US were selling muscle cars with big > cams, multi carbs and high compression. These faced no government restrictions > until later on. > > > >> ________________________________ >> From: John Cyganowski > >> To: 6pack@autox.team.net >> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 > 5:27 AM >> Subject: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 >> >> In my humble opinion, the > emmissions thing is a fable that was published a >> long time ago and has become > accepted fact. First, in 1967 there was no EPA. >> EPA was begun in 1970 under > President Nixon. Car emmisson standards (the >> little that they had) came under > the Department of Health Education and >> Welfare (HEW). Oh for the days when > government was not so bloated. >> >> I think the PI system needed altitude > compensation in the US. This would have >> cost more. But I don't think the PI > system could not be tuned. That is what >> fuel injection is all about - > delivering the right amount of fuel at the right >> time. >> >> The issue was > sales. McWilliam nixed anything he thought would be a >> distraction to sales. > The home market was small. The home market had troubles >> with the PI system, > but the number of cars produced for that market was small, >> so the problems > were managable. The North American Market by comparison was >> huge. McWilliams > just did not want those issues. He was right. >> >> John Cyg. >> >> ________________________________________ >> >> 6pack@autox.team.net >> >> Donate: > http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: > http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/taylorturbo6@yahoo.com > > ________________________________________ > > 6pack@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/70tr6@comcast.net ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/jimjcmo@yahoo.com ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 16 14:17:34 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1DD642A3B for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 14:17:34 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from isis.mit.edu (ISIS.MIT.EDU [18.142.2.157]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1484B40E45 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 14:17:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from ISIS.MIT.EDU (ISIS.MIT.EDU [18.142.2.157]) by isis.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r0GLDPIx031713; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 16:13:25 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 16:13:25 -0500 (EST) From: "Robert M. Lang" To: Sally or Dick Taylor References: <1358342837.78808.YahooMailClassic@web185002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1358365044.35294.YahooMailNeo@web161305.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Cc: John Cyganowski , "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net On Wed, 16 Jan 2013, Sally or Dick Taylor wrote: > John makes a good point. In 1968 the US were selling muscle cars with big > cams, multi carbs and high compression. These faced no government restrictions > until later on. ... insurance was also a factor on the demise of real muscle cars. :-) rml --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Lang Triumph TR6!! | This space for rent Former NER Solo Chair | Voice:617-253-7438 | Cell: 339-927-4489 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 16 15:14:44 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C8E742A5A for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 15:14:44 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm24.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm24.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.212.183]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 329B140E24 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 15:14:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from [98.139.214.32] by nm24.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2013 22:10:54 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.204] by tm15.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2013 22:10:54 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1013.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2013 22:10:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 52290 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Jan 2013 22:10:54 -0000 s=s1024; t=1358374254; bh=cgFIKWHsb5dnv+5Z56CraF+lmV1BeIZc+Zgm0eaHgiw=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=QPJZJZPzSyQCJXHV/BngRsZmd5muDU7RhOcKMCAMt06WrTz0X/k3AKUaNvKA/EYjbShhU/hk3K3p1fOg4UGudljdvZKOFU+ROYuel+TBeCwQK34Ys+ACDS9mr7Ab86tlyU1UOtM9EVjUkNxKS0M4errkqj+2LFrNJVDLl0sD/a4= s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=jCNCW8Mx09idsQ3WhLmk9yuoxEv+5iXllC+iiwCZzcOXdyZNdIQSz1PdHv9LCOGzgPbu6yLRaO4cC9lxs9m7YOz5oue07efig7V3ommQycrWKOZ4hwsIIiEF60VgxkT5BjROUkjmy6bi+CiN4sKGYYa3weojaNGiT9LcDO1jnaI=; c.CvJEE.XJxChOAK.Gf3ZTCcsMM655NqPhndKSoO8ahZm1alUh..3HcMZqlx ZQMBOFuBeUKppsfWaR27mf8AtBAbWC0sovLOwB55E7ODmlxZOy78RDIJ30iu jcp4K6JeypfqhO4AWhRy8KEosOOXJhDn6DyZ4FFdqGPSbeyGd1ClTshX3VxF Lafx9un_bI3fUJbcmomAbxvxWKtCzXUjZdqNa0NvD6rVaz_0QuQM63z.DDmb GcZ8NG5mVXQDOxUvj6P1aqIUkziulN4.zTP6Ap6BM3Z6mvEe8NqZcR6ymObO 29pRJk8FcO5CE22GkQLi06VkEAIqDoroSJ0ToOGmAveVM81lqVZZiJfE9_18 52PVHJ3h1Cmb2baCeskLKe_hzwvQFoY7zYryN4o_hNeIgRNFIzGbxBqQperX XT2A_WyGf8buTLWd_fs6IHkfNMFtrihezdXuLUQXYefzo4D8PKxW1ualw7gG nStno0VhGXCl6fQIRfHDIouF5bu3D3AFekZEsR2139HTGXhn6Q76SKLoseE6 gj5qSV295oIvMPg-- Received: from [216.106.92.94] by web142702.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 14:10:54 PST SSBhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIEpvaG4sIGFuZCBiZWxpZXZlIHRoYXQgQnJ1Y2UgTWNXaWxsaWFtcyB3YXMgY29ycmVjdCBpbiBoaXMgZGVjaXNpb24uIFRoZSBCcml0cyBESUQgaGF2ZSB0cm91YmxlIHdpdGggdGhlIGVhcmx5IFBJIGNhcnMuIFRoZSBlYXJseSBoaWdoIHN0cnVuZyBjYW1zIGNhdXNlZCBhIGxvcGV5IGlkbGUgYW5kIHRoZSBmdWVsIG1ldGVyaW5nIHVuaXRzIGhhZCB0byBiZSByZWJ1aWx0IChleHBlbnNpdmVseSkgd2hlbiB0aGV5IGZhaWxlZC4gRmFyIG1vcmUgb2YgYW4gb3JkZWFsIGNvbXBhcmVkIHQBMAEBAQE- Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 14:10:54 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Jones To: 6pack@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net I agree with John, and believe that Bruce McWilliams was correct in his decision. The Brits DID have trouble with the early PI cars. The early high strung cams caused a lopey idle and the fuel metering units had to be rebuilt (expensively) when they failed. Far more of an ordeal compared to rebuilding a carb. It's likely that by the time the PI system was perfected, if that was possible, the cost may have put those cars into a price class where they could not compete well. Servicing would have been an issue for most of the BL dealers' service departments. Chevy dealers routinely removed the Rochester fuel injection units from Corvettes at their owners' request because they were a pain to keep working. The other issue is that the North American market needed the six cylinder FAST. Remember the TR250 was only marketed for what? 16 months? Waiting another year for a better PI system before rolling out the car could well have cost BL several dealers at a time when many were on the brink of taking down their Triumph signs. And remember that these cars, particularly the TR6, succeeded brilliantly. They kept the Triumph brand in the game. Face it. The basic design of these cars dated back to the mid-sixties, if not earlier. Trying to make it into a modern car would have required starting all over from the ground up, something that was not going to happen with the TR7 under development. Jim Jones Jones Beltone Hearing and Audiology Jefferson City, MO --- On Wed, 1/16/13, John Cyganowski wrote: From: John Cyganowski Subject: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 To: 6pack@autox.team.net Date: Wednesday, January 16, 2013, 7:27 AM In my humble opinion, the emmissions thing is a fable that was published a long time ago and has become accepted fact. First, in 1967 there was no EPA. EPA was begun in 1970 under President Nixon. Car emmisson standards (the little that they had) came under the Department of Health Education and Welfare (HEW). Oh for the days when government was not so bloated. I think the PI system needed altitude compensation in the US. This would have cost more. But I don't think the PI system could not be tuned. That is what fuel injection is all about - delivering the right amount of fuel at the right time. The issue was sales. McWilliam nixed anything he thought would be a distraction to sales. The home market was small. The home market had troubles with the PI system, but the number of cars produced for that market was small, so the problems were managable. The North American Market by comparison was huge. McWilliams just did not want those issues. He was right. John Cyg. ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/jimjcmo@yahoo.com ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Jan 16 19:10:38 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57826429E6 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 19:10:38 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from qmta02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.24]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46EA0422A0 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Wed, 16 Jan 2013 19:10:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from omta04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.35]) by qmta02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id ooUn1k0040lTkoCA2q6mCJ; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 02:06:46 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([24.8.234.200]) by omta04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id oq6j1k00S4L5TyG8Qq6kTy; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 02:06:45 +0000 From: Bud R To: Jim Jones Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 19:06:43 -0700 References: <1358367354.66930.YahooMailClassic@web142703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> s=q20121106; t=1358388406; bh=LOmr313XGu2o6yJr2DJkS0jaRh0YiD4M2hJicWwQHCg=; h=Received:Received:Message-Id:From:To:Content-Type:Subject: Mime-Version:Date; b=q++1lD2J9XyS8VgT3g9qWB/BRtw5OFwaJKWtPl3PvoFaF6lxDMbbhDfRXjlS4t12f eD9Y9wg2PrHyYdqaCgqjXBViJcl21kAha5rIjV4/W4hyvSacLzlEP19NY3QbHifq+T IH1asldeiMMb3YdwwhWnZuSxvFPZ0crSVJ4sjXPRkaP8Clzekeak0JLsG45GCfMnUQ HNrtAnpdlQqyDAsqr6i7NU4BPYMMcIi3AgSar82SnqusHaT519amiWjBv8yTAX2F2V ytOYftKEtJ+KOVXhgIhfSwoAgzAbbEMP8wNSAxZefAlYzEhGUR2fQ5fAFgDiJsC0+4 6QZkKA6W6NyiQ== Cc: John Cyganowski , "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net My 54 Oldsmobile (1st car paid $50.00) burned oil so bad I carried a five gallon can of it in the huge trunk. It was the car filling up the intersection with smoke. Bud Rolofson 71TR6 CC57365 (Good 6) 71 Spitfire MK IV Race Car #3 66TR4A CTC57529 (The Project) 71F-250 Camper Special (Triumph Support Vehicle) Z-50A Hardly Davidson 1977 Honda Mini-Trail Bike (Triumph Pit Bike) On Jan 16, 2013, at 1:15 PM, Jim Jones wrote: > Hard to imagine the > emissions that car produced. ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 17 11:25:42 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D021442ADF for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:25:42 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm13.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm13.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.237.214]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63E5D40569 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:24:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.94.237.199] by nm13.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2013 18:20:28 -0000 Received: from [98.138.226.243] by tm10.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2013 18:20:28 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp114.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2013 18:20:28 -0000 RnfZDy2jqCzIZ.voBh3fQSJ2CJv4PQIPg8D0aMkGSyDrZxmlB0Qc6pUhj2Vs kfIgzo3W3d8NcnVy_DPpcCOw.QjHRd58Zs3XKCS_DC_tQMK2F1oYvcXRueWP fmcLMJHviZAPYurehLx9ek6I9p7_tTsN_GSCxEUL8ACwiJ9jN0wWgTUSbyRG J0xhn8h7prZTLu3J.H6lRLIP9xxwEaGTbOixQ0OYZWcPIc5IZgR0vumGL2kg uCnnDTdIyV7eGPZT2Lfqh7596jXDC5NOt70IwujS5Sk3V1HQXjkjMkSD07fD WOYhbKSEfdmncHZoi8rvpHyzKRFrhKrKtLzLCVLe1mvsP5RtyC95e_xxYWB8 8Hq2fmhHi9nwHnaSb9EA2h.xNFFgG6KZchwKKiV4TypffudqtSUmNsRjRusE wdA9r1s_cyGpiWBsGGT4_J_f8rZrYKhMm.qjkiYa.AKJTpNgNgx_oVvCsQwb g3zYVU.oHh8Le37.2W4a5GamQVRHyfV16zd3T95pEx9PUfrRHubJw2mhwHK5 LizrjMJJoDlycAJHK338nQAMRTr5l8_JzPp61xbR2AQHtif_ur43Zo9KURoY 33Azx8c2cmmS5DuejYK.xs5sH9O4nmOJiQapW_dVokTwX0kgiMY3RQgKNX04 mC6TPRQjcGfX24S3kzpzw_jSSTjrmqQ-- Received: from [192.168.1.77] (cartravel@99.98.59.54 with plain) by smtp114.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2013 10:20:28 -0800 PST Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 12:20:33 -0600 From: Larry Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 To: 6pack@autox.team.net References: <1358342837.78808.YahooMailClassic@web185002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Sorry, there is no fable here. If you read a bit of history, you will find that the first real standards on tailpipe emission occurred in 1968. Here are a couple references, which state: "The first legislated exhaust (tailpipe) emission standards were promulgated by the State of California for 1966 model year for cars sold in that state, followed by the United States as a whole in model year 1968. The standards were progressively tightened year by year, as mandated by the EPA." At that time, the auto makers only tool for reducing emissions was by detuning. Catalytic converts came about in 1975 and helped to reduce the amount of detuning required. Electronic engine controls helped even more. Those that mention muscle cars should notice that they began to decline about this same time and were then totally killed by the 1973 oil embargo. It's too bad Triumph didn't adopt electronic fuel injection once it was perfected rather than continuing to detune, then the TR6 and TR7 wouldn't have been such dogs. references: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_emissions_control http://www.autolife.umd.umich.edu/Environment/E_Overview/E_Overview4.htm On 1/16/2013 7:27 AM, John Cyganowski wrote: > In my humble opinion, the emmissions thing is a fable that was published a > long time ago and has become accepted fact. First, in 1967 there was no EPA. > EPA was begun in 1970 under President Nixon. Car emmisson standards (the > little that they had) came under the Department of Health Education and > Welfare (HEW). Oh for the days when government was not so bloated. > > I think the PI system needed altitude compensation in the US. This woulrd have > cost more. But I don't think the PI system could not be tuned. That is what > fuel injection is all about - delivering the right amount of fuel at the right > time. > > The issue was sales. McWilliam nixed anything he thought would be a > distraction to sales. The home market was small. The home market had troubles > with the PI system, but the number of cars produced for that market was small, > so the problems were managable. The North American Market by comparison was > huge. McWilliams just did not want those issues. He was right. > > John Cyg. > > ________________________________________ > > 6pack@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/cartravel@pobox.com ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 17 11:32:42 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1F3D42B4F for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:32:41 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm30-vm8.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm30-vm8.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.136.216.199]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B40194068D for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:32:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from [98.137.12.189] by nm30.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2013 18:28:28 -0000 Received: from [98.137.12.205] by tm10.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2013 18:28:28 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1013.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2013 18:28:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 90780 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Jan 2013 18:28:28 -0000 s=s1024; t=1358447308; bh=e0M3asFdfvkafW/OCcCKNlx+lQreLbwFxSgO6mX/UDs=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=LEfyNUI3dQH5g44nLid/l0BxUvndbBhPAGUmHMm0kmuRZgla4DIM59RZJu+gqxm97UIcdvbC55WN/97hQyufmo7YDTMQUvfcnx+KCnRR8UwRJyvS4LwPm3l/AkDPHrrH5+aPZGaaFbS/BoiLjPTBFZdCMPPoTxLE7FnO9fF5+NI= s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=GN394HvwwNOFA0u5FSiWKPsqsgLaM5m6PN8KWGoRxEPL0AS85yob0AsiwGIfZREi3hVdJx8NWjXRrrt1VeeKfBpuYzPzkfRwYEk/DCcMqg4qj6paEufu8fAbT8GmnW78+aHmlPUYJGvf1uyEhG8BOrKk1v6z5W7FXh6dChoiprg=; fppzrvN6DbIrTs7NVTHNrf6a8bn4EVhDC1_xpX28o8JsokA5ErKv_w5zOUwZ sXAwBp6crEnbZSajakAppslY8tRyUp8KpUZeeehcfBPHE3gG_z04s2DqVWL0 n8UzJS5gp6Qyja0cWSvyde_nqYxqt5Ynl.nZJftcesPPPU7ZsNFeZG693UKn caZqmqQei8u559lZAi.0PtbsaCAajLE1ZAJ3OQj8AJerrLuSG2WBzOSFYzMC sO_g0Kxw8GAsJ0kBRQNq8FzFM9wDMMQQAnocHn93oRy3UK1SMhsv5w.lj4nx MxDphRVhozj7yq.oy6FICUXLjsxZA.2BvSdDQ1FZVnv_wwI3uS8sxjg.whWb gu8nSJKzsx_nkplspbXhbpgUPvMG3Q56ONAFlq.bJR6tIlZYe.1LnUYRoc1a 7KznjBw5OFjXQwIYTO.ZlLf_ruUcDzf.dG4XZyPvDW1q8A7SgGhew6QccI9u J_t2kKW2wiGk0E5qM6heCoSYubROtKurFmTzxmfjyBwbja6AHgU8gvsTOF7R lSS41thisrjEGgISHDLuRzJz8JAOtc1N19T_8tSg- Received: from [156.70.222.30] by web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 10:28:28 PST SW50ZXN0aW5nIHBvaW50cyAoYW5kIERpY2ssIHlvdSdyZSByaWdodCwgSSBoYWQgbm8gaWRlYSBteSBoYXJtbGVzcyAiZGlkIFRyaXVtcGggc2VsbCBUUjUncyBpbiBDYW5hZGEiIHF1ZXN0aW9uIHdvdWxkIHR1cm4gaW50byBhbGwgdGhpcywgYnV0IEkgc3VyZSBhbSBlbmpveWluZyB3aGVyZSBpdCdzIGdvaW5nISksIGJ1dCBhIHF1aWNrIFdpa2kgY2hlY2sgZmluZHMgdGhhdCBlbWlzc2lvbnMgc3RhbmRhcmRzIFdFUkUgaW50cm9kdWNlZCBpbiB0aGUgVVMgaW4gdGhlIDYwczoKwqAKPT09PT09CsKgVGhlIGYBMAEBAQE- References: <3EC02700-AD32-40F2-A3B1-4435B2CFE349@comcast.net> <1358367354.66930.YahooMailClassic@web142703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1358372076.74582.YahooMailNeo@web163505.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 10:28:28 -0800 (PST) From: Timothy Holbrook To: 6Pack List <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Intesting points (and Dick, you're right, I had no idea my harmless "did Triumph sell TR5's in Canada" question would turn into all this, but I sure am enjoying where it's going!), but a quick Wiki check finds that emissions standards WERE introduced in the US in the 60s: ====== The first legislated exhaust (tailpipe) emission standards were promulgated by the State of California for 1966 model year for cars sold in that state, followed by the United States as a whole in model year 1968. The standards were progressively tightened year by year, as mandated by the EPA. By the 1974 model year, the emission standards had tightened such that the de-tuning techniques used to meet them were seriously reducing engine efficiency and thus increasing fuel usage. The new emission standards for 1975 model year, as well as the increase in fuel usage, forced the invention of the catalytic converter for after-treatment of the exhaust gas. This was not possible with existing leaded gasoline, because the lead residue contaminated the platinum catalyst. In 1972, General Motors proposed to the American Petroleum Institute the elimination of leaded fuels for 1975 and later model year cars. The production and distribution of unleaded fuel was a major challenge, but it was completed successfully in time for the 1975 model year cars. All modern cars are now equipped with catalytic converters and leaded fuel is nearly impossible to buy in most First World countries. ====== That said, I agree with you guys that these emissions standards must have been pretty "relaxed" in the late 60s and early 70s when you think of so many of the US muscle cars that were being produced at that time. I'm similarly skeptical that the extra cost of the PI system would have been a signficant factor in putting carbs on the North American cars. As a supply chain guy who has been in the manufacturing segment for a long time, I would much prefer a single "flavor" (every TR6 in a single PI format) rather than dealing with a mix of PI and carbs. Any cost differences in the PI vs carb hardware would likely have been absorbed by simplified procurement and inventory management of parts, a sole assembly process for all assembly line workers to follow, easier training of dealers and technicians, etc. Seems much more likely that Triumph were worried about how well the PI car would run in the much more important US market in which there are many different climates and elevations, and where buyers are less inclined to be amused by a car's idiosyncrasies! My Dad worked for Triumph (unfortunately not in a capacity which gave him the insight to answer this current million dollar question of the 6pack list!) and drove his new PI TR6 (in the early 70s in UK) over the Pyrenees, and had a hell of a time with the car sputtering and losing power as the altitude increased, exhaust pipes black with soot, etc. That would be big trouble with US buyers! Tim From: Jim Jones To: Sally or Dick Taylor ; Ashford Little <70tr6@comcast.net> Cc: John Cyganowski ; "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 True that. MY dad had a 1970 Sedan de Ville with the Caddy 472 V8. I never knew what its numbers were, but that was a torque beast. Hard to imagine the emissions that car produced. Jim Jones Jones Beltone Hearing and Audiology Jefferson City, MO --- On Wed, 1/16/13, Ashford Little <70tr6@comcast.net> wrote: From: Ashford Little <70tr6@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 To: "Sally or Dick Taylor" Cc: "John Cyganowski" , "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> Date: Wednesday, January 16, 2013, 1:41 PM Yeah, hard to imagine a 440 6-Pack would pass even a gas station... not to mention almost any other big block motor in the US. My first "car" was actually a yacht of the land variety. 1971 Mercury Marquis. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention my father ordered it with the 429ci Mach One motor. Pass an emissions test. Yeah right. Ashford Little 70tr6@comcast.net On Jan 16, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Sally or Dick Taylor wrote: > John makes a good point. In 1968 the US were selling muscle cars with big > cams, multi carbs and high compression. These faced no government restrictions > until later on. ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 17 11:42:49 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B425B4069C for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:42:49 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from qmta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.80]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A3F84068D for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:42:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from omta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.59]) by qmta08.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id p5xn1k0091GXsucA86eelZ; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 18:38:38 +0000 Received: from [10.0.1.17] ([66.56.8.22]) by omta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id p6eb1k00g0UXH428U6eccU; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 18:38:37 +0000 From: Ashford Little <70tr6@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 13:38:35 -0500 References: <3EC02700-AD32-40F2-A3B1-4435B2CFE349@comcast.net> <1358367354.66930.YahooMailClassic@web142703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1358372076.74582.YahooMailNeo@web163505.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1358447308.89445.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> To: Timothy Holbrook s=q20121106; t=1358447918; bh=fd3GgJKKdmv2tzI9YprgH+oJJlaRB4Oyiq78XyYSJqg=; h=Received:Received:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:Date: Message-Id:To; b=gmtkAfomC8O8YRDVYthrecVejxdl/V2W72diLBY27FX7CfTFQvmHsWgwH8jvDUsz5 4ZarsMNL1u8ky3lQ4O1kzWhuiQcrz4NYwt+lS4TXXm33z/eiHPPokgRurb0MZ/6aM+ HGPyYAZHzcvZvkPgY7A2iO4S2EyeSe9Q6KLyd5omdVEBm+qV568d/n1K8g1CqO2PVi yMGiIhTMVkBxTw9KLfgG8lKV/gba99cyWAuM54Tx/S8oHPm8D0qF/cvNu6hgInoPRh qnIw7AmNKKkqHLZgR12NTK/V4Vv6u4cHZozlVxl/jgkSK+xz3Dsp4ukLaDzYNsgkak npFi4S7Nz0J8A== Cc: 6Pack List <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net > My Dad worked for Triumph > (unfortunately not in a capacity which gave him the insight to answer this > current million dollar question of the 6pack list!) and drove his new PI TR6 > (in the early 70s in UK) over the Pyrenees, and had a hell of a time with the > car sputtering and losing power as the altitude increased, exhaust pipes black > with soot, etc. That would be big trouble with US buyers! > > Tim Hmm, which brings up another question to the uninformed (me). How did the PI system meter fuel? Or why was it the higher altitudes caused issues? Obviously the air gets thinner, and it didn't compensate, so what did the PI lack that the carbs had to compensate for altitude? Ashford Little 70tr6@comcast.net ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 17 11:43:11 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B9FA4069C for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:43:11 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from mail-we0-f175.google.com (mail-we0-f175.google.com [74.125.82.175]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4764542AF1 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:42:27 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-we0-f175.google.com with SMTP id z53so419520wey.6 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 10:38:41 -0800 (PST) s=20120113; h=x-received:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=yiCXPCZpWRNgrpsLLPux+V+Qwb9wLyKugD/jwUNR2oU=; b=z0kv09Ivryqhj7CrmX31V21LBg+wJdTEbidLoOrLik8xcwWD/sYM6iezHNvdK42hXi tvH7YU09aOtKrlsGrVZ8tc3u57/9yl1sxBsK7dbnvw9K6oNuaV82f4P6pjya9G6RY5Lp s48m+l3yp9G72piPvLWI38nabPTl6E6pJtghQxAOidEDKDuDz7UX1iqZfZRa6iOLztLQ CfLx++oJAL2RFVHkle7rVXvjTps796IuhbPtzUm5TisYOohaygYz6jNsbqxEAzHpbWrS volaC+BG3E/I6NnrDWzP5uUUO51SQqCtHF3L5ktf4rSgG6uzmJFowCrhuDc063AE0jgn u4ig== Thu, 17 Jan 2013 10:38:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.17.3 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 10:38:20 -0800 (PST) From: John VanNorman Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 13:38:20 -0500 To: 6-Pack <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: [6pack] Buckeye Triumph Swap Meet Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Hey everyone, Buckeye Triumphs will be hosting its Third Annual Cabin Fever Swap Meet on Feburary 9, 2013. We'll have various vendors from around the area. Bring your British-related parts and pieces (and anything else you have that your significant other wants you to clear out of the garage)! If you would like to reserve a spot, please email buckeyetriumph@gmail.com. Otherwise, it will be first come first serve, so please show up early to get a spot. Here is the info: February 9th 10 to 3 Plain City Pastime Park Recreation Building 344 N Chillicothe St Plain City, OH 43064 John ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 17 12:06:21 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29ECA42B4C for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 12:06:21 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from imr-da03.mx.aol.com (imr-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.105.145]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D044C42B05 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 12:05:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaout-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.130]) by imr-da03.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 083CF1C000144; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 14:02:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.192] (adsl-71-141-108-93.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [71.141.108.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mtaout-da02.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPSA id 95B2FE0000EC; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 14:02:10 -0500 (EST) References: <1358342837.78808.YahooMailClassic@web185002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <50F840F1.7070504@pobox.com> From: Tr6uo Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:02:14 -0800 To: Larry Young x-aol-global-disposition: G s=20121107; t=1358449330; bh=umHWZRqdSK14DbyQnYt3S3e/joojbPGN0FH9jXsFBCc=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=GYskb1FK1JYubRML5WNAo8UQ2li0M37w7Duyr4aTzhXFFucXbk9kpOzS3OUtO/8+0 2F9lXWIOgzJajYQPJSwmwAeZTHbj1RBuVJC2QDDIV+F80/j1UMMKSwAcuSKyY/s3gN PrhuX1XTULJMU+Z+L9G33u+lF1yqNN2PVs7nvKWc= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338250f84ab2383c Cc: "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net I have to agree with Larry on this one. As I recall, the first attempts at emissions control came in the form of PCV valves on '67 or '68 models sold in California. I believe it was the most efficient way to detune the standard spec for that limited market. Steve Hollander Sent from my iPad On Jan 17, 2013, at 10:20 AM, Larry Young wrote: > Sorry, there is no fable here. If you read a bit of history, you will > find that the first real standards on tailpipe emission occurred in > 1968. Here are a couple references, which state: > > "The first legislated exhaust (tailpipe) > emission standards were > promulgated by the State of California for 1966 model year for cars sold > in that state, followed by the United States as a whole in model year > 1968. The standards were progressively tightened year by year, as > mandated by the EPA." > > At that time, the auto makers only tool for reducing emissions was by > detuning. Catalytic converts came about in 1975 and helped to reduce > the amount of detuning required. Electronic engine controls helped even > more. Those that mention muscle cars should notice that they began to > decline about this same time and were then totally killed by the 1973 > oil embargo. It's too bad Triumph didn't adopt electronic fuel > injection once it was perfected rather than continuing to detune, then > the TR6 and TR7 wouldn't have been such dogs. > > references: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_emissions_control > http://www.autolife.umd.umich.edu/Environment/E_Overview/E_Overview4.htm > > > On 1/16/2013 7:27 AM, John Cyganowski wrote: >> In my humble opinion, the emmissions thing is a fable that was published a >> long time ago and has become accepted fact. First, in 1967 there was no EPA. >> EPA was begun in 1970 under President Nixon. Car emmisson standards (the >> little that they had) came under the Department of Health Education and >> Welfare (HEW). Oh for the days when government was not so bloated. >> >> I think the PI system needed altitude compensation in the US. This woulrd have >> cost more. But I don't think the PI system could not be tuned. That is what >> fuel injection is all about - delivering the right amount of fuel at the right >> time. >> >> The issue was sales. McWilliam nixed anything he thought would be a >> distraction to sales. The home market was small. The home market had troubles >> with the PI system, but the number of cars produced for that market was small, >> so the problems were managable. The North American Market by comparison was >> huge. McWilliams just did not want those issues. He was right. >> >> John Cyg. >> >> ________________________________________ >> >> 6pack@autox.team.net >> >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums >> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/cartravel@pobox.com > > ________________________________________ > > 6pack@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/tr6uo@aol.com ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 17 12:14:37 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 354D942B57 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 12:14:37 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from bradakis.com (bradakis.com [166.70.156.35]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AFFC40570 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 12:14:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from mark.bradakis.com (bradakis.com [166.70.156.35]) by bradakis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B94EA137B for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 12:12:13 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 12:12:13 -0700 From: Mark J Bradakis User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120315 Firefox/11.0 SeaMonkey/2.8 To: 6Pack List <6pack@autox.team.net> References: <3EC02700-AD32-40F2-A3B1-4435B2CFE349@comcast.net> <1358367354.66930.YahooMailClassic@web142703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1358372076.74582.YahooMailNeo@web163505.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1358447308.89445.YahooMailNeo@web163501.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <1D261D88-AF06-4CA3-A25C-22AC516DF6C4@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Ashford Little wrote: > Hmm, which brings up another question to the uninformed (me). How did > the PI system meter fuel? Or why was it the higher altitudes caused > issues? Obviously the air gets thinner, and it didn't compensate, so > what did the PI lack that the carbs had to compensate for altitude? It was simple mechanical injection - the same dose of fuel regardless of barometric pressure. So as the air got thinner, with less and less oxygen, the air fuel ratio gets screwed up. The constant depression type carbs like SUs and Strombergs would not raise the pistons as much in thinner air, which limited the amount of fuel getting mixed in, so they dealt with altitude changes more readily than simple PI. mjb. ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 17 12:43:53 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A017D42B4A for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 12:43:53 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm25.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com (nm25.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com [98.139.44.152]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EC5840453 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 12:40:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from [98.139.44.97] by nm25.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2013 19:36:20 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.65] by tm2.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2013 19:36:19 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1002.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2013 19:36:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 38502 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Jan 2013 19:36:19 -0000 s=s1024; t=1358451379; bh=KQnGjQP22gXYNBlQpLjHaz4veSmLyaBbPGXG1VCrh7Q=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=KPyyd1sNIIj3S1qWF5aGKxES/IAQtDzbH5acZwmPXzxyRNod3tXqGNQDE0po8Ywt/EKXV6xC8GSiZCIkBQF6ptV7tJLoa8CIQG2enucY8NOfXLftm/Rd5TNUSxb0gnXLTR/O45YLOQjfhE2SQVMlscNwMurdp4XK16KQqcc1Cus= s=s1024; d=att.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=q2GG+3c7cEhHLFodFJQBzOYFK7r6UL70n/dhZW88GmWyfROk/zXCKsqltOV9pbPtdjRdCqMotRMYNoXZFZRe126cXha3DHiFtzmVGw5ZDVGTMvuEP5hWMki2hE6+He5/1MMiKVapE6N5DpBw/f5rYQJo9SiWwrx3DbXaVp0QcWg=; nTKoL8wFDSDMpuXcalaoA.9SmlF6ek87TtKAVt8H_2tNQQwxdm1Vc_Yp5TpF iu.iio.z4xvQXknC.DIr2xnpuPfwPNXODt1N9bJp7SQcWdGfatUn6AMXAMJq Xdfn3fIuM1ij56iXhc0ODLy0FTaTY1faujunIIpDDMEQd8Yd8HYenff5TxSe RAYS4rXdIoSHYoZa9M98Qt2EH7xqO3jcCO3bbsFx3ZLl0rstuJgjtVVcDdu3 oxeCIy7p6xqItE21Due08KD9GpE9PhfXW0CXAcMR3lhzXZbtMEZNmoaO_Jx8 tA0qWPjOmoVCScj7Scfb_FleIILNtf6xa9saPmzjO2sZjFXXYtGbnkO1EMu8 eZNiODbI83_GFHcxz.yKUTAPsm7iZg0X15IRgrq2t8DbjOV8cC9VdbqU9Aha fz6sKey9p.ytXQjceD4hvfalASLxInwd6Yg-- Received: from [216.2.95.162] by web185004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:36:19 PST SSBkaWQgbm90IHNheSB0aGVyZSB3ZXJlIG5vdCBhbnkgZW1pc3Npb25zIHJlZ3VsYXRpb25zIGluIDE5NjguwqAgV2hhdCBJIHNhaWQgd2FzIHRoYXQgdGhlcmUgd2FzIG5vIEVQQSB1bnRpbCAxOTcwIGFuZMKgd2hhdCBmZWRlcmFswqByZWd1bGF0aW9ucyB0aGVyZSB3ZXJlLCBjYW1lIHVuZGVyIEhFVy4gSSBkaWQgbm90IHRoaW5rIGFib3V0IENhbGlmb3JuaWEgcmVndWxhdGlvbnMsIGJ1dCB0aGV5IHdlcmUgdGhlcmUgYW5kIENhbC4gd2FzIGEgbWFqb3IgbWFya2V0IGZvciBUcml1bXBoLg0KwqANCkkgdGgBMAEBAQE- Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:36:19 -0800 (PST) From: John Cyganowski To: 6pack@autox.team.net Subject: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net I did not say there were not any emissions regulations in 1968. What I said was that there was no EPA until 1970 and what federal regulations there were, came under HEW. I did not think about California regulations, but they were there and Cal. was a major market for Triumph. I think the claim that Triumph NA passed on the PI system because they could not get it to meet emmission standards is the "fable". If you can do it with carburators, it can certainly be done with PI. Would it have cost more? Perhaps. I contend the real reason is that mechanical fuel injection was fussy and the real issue was concern over endless service issues and complaints leading to a bad reputation and deflated sales. John Cyg ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 17 13:16:38 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B205F40692 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 13:16:38 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm13.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm13.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.237.214]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C8E240549 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 13:16:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.94.237.192] by nm13.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2013 20:12:23 -0000 Received: from [68.142.198.207] by tm3.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2013 20:12:23 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp111.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2013 20:12:23 -0000 cW4b2RhHyZSck0di3O4ZSWyXXJODPgQv.M.bbUOR4SyFzVLLO6cPA7SrjBlQ aEzlBMOX4cOai_2CAg3aIJ3bwBqmTScUZ6XQhoAo06GBJQmXFjtWUCip21wS dLuvk8xRKDkt_MonI1Pt7cNldRwiZz93XFBGrrjBAm6hG01uPgS2WkzbDrJ9 232wgaOLAAb6dISOVC.6MNi6uwcDv_oVHlkplaVy.2VEFU6LRh.8uYpS0zk9 Se_QiXo1RJcXahQBy0r_SQ3.e36z.sfOlzJkNG9lyIMqlYaVbce7Y8ItbvJI VC6QRL0Ap_mxAHgJLJ2Z5rfLYVsbwiXVTuJeXixCz0iWERfRToqXnt7PnA4X DYDwj5j9yHI4JKMrpwf.W.7VX8JCbeWr9r_nXQ3UXEEiqNIx2dzOL2rVSher 3ClZTigCG0VILWCXd3pzxrO24vpxCBoV0az.nglSLPAxRPu3SzphTUk3x3ED lzicDLB7yNO6N2R4YgxvwZw-- Received: from [192.168.1.77] (cartravel@99.98.59.54 with plain) by smtp111.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2013 12:12:23 -0800 PST Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 14:12:29 -0600 From: Larry Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 To: 6pack@autox.team.net References: <1358451379.88197.YahooMailClassic@web185004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Yes, I understand what you said. My point is that there were Federal standards imposed on exhaust emissions and they were achieved by detuning, It may have been possible to achieve the standards by detuning a PI system, but they might have ended up with an 80 hp car. I don't know the answer to that. Granted the standards were nothing like they are today, but the technology wasn't there either. On 1/17/2013 1:36 PM, John Cyganowski wrote: > I did not say there were not any emissions regulations in 1968. What I said > was that there was no EPA until 1970 and what federal regulations there were, > came under HEW. I did not think about California regulations, but they were > there and Cal. was a major market for Triumph. > > I think the claim that Triumph NA passed on the PI system because they could > not get it to meet emmission standards is the "fable". If you can do it with > carburators, it can certainly be done with PI. Would it have cost more? > Perhaps. I contend the real reason is that mechanical fuel injection was fussy > and the real issue was concern over endless service issues and complaints > leading to a bad reputation and deflated sales. > > John Cyg > > ________________________________________ > > 6pack@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/cartravel@pobox.com ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 17 21:42:25 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C408D40653 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:42:25 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.197]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96F384055C for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 21:42:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from [192.168.1.103] (ool-4a5a292d.dyn.optonline.net [74.90.41.45]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTP id <0MGT00B1U0W6TI10@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for 6pack@autox.team.net; Thu, 17 Jan 2013 23:38:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 23:40:28 -0500 From: Ed McGuirk To: 6pack@autox.team.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 Subject: Re: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net If you look into the innards of the PI and the CV carb, you'll see that the PI only knows about engine vacuum while the CV carb only knows about the volume of air ingested. The PI will give you the same amount of fuel per engine revolution at 10 inches of vacuum for 1000 RPM and also 10 inches of vacuum at 3000 RPM. If you look at how modern fuel injectors work, you will see that an engine wants very different amounts of fuel per engine revolution for those two situations due to better breathing (volumetric efficiency) at 3000 RPM. Meanwhile the CV carburetor will try to give you the same amount of fuel for light load high RPM and heavy load low RPM. The engine wants different mixtures for these two situations but the differences are usually smaller. In other words, the PI assumes a dead flat torque curve while the CV carburetor assumes that the engine has the same torque curve shape with the throttle closed and throttle open. Variations in altitude will also be covered better on the CV carb by simply adjusting the needle while the PI control unit has to have all its concentric spring perches individually re-calibrated (a guess on my part). Until better fuel injection came along that could meter fuel based on both vacuum and RPM (3d fuel map instead of 2d map), the CV carb just had better all-around drivability at the cost of worse ultimate power. I would not be surprised if triple Strombergs could actually be better than the PI that came stock. ed Message: 2 Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 13:38:35 -0500 From: Ashford Little<70tr6@comcast.net> To: Timothy Holbrook Cc: 6Pack List<6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] TR5 and TR250 Message-ID:<1D261D88-AF06-4CA3-A25C-22AC516DF6C4@comcast.net> Hmm, which brings up another question to the uninformed (me). How did the PI system meter fuel? Or why was it the higher altitudes caused issues? Obviously the air gets thinner, and it didn't compensate, so what did the PI lack that the carbs had to compensate for altitude? Ashford Little 70tr6@comcast.net ------------------------------ ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Jan 20 06:14:37 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6523E42495 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 06:14:37 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from imr-ma04.mx.aol.com (imr-ma04.mx.aol.com [64.12.206.42]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79AE740531 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 06:13:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaomg-da06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-da06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.142]) by imr-ma04.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 3246B1C000063 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 08:09:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-dmd002b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-dmd002.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.213.69]) by mtaomg-da06.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id E0469E000081 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 08:09:53 -0500 (EST) To: 6pack@autox.team.net From: "daybell7@aol.com" Received: from 98.70.52.242 by webmail-d095.sysops.aol.com (205.188.255.6) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sun, 20 Jan 2013 08:09:53 -0500 Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 08:09:53 -0500 (EST) x-aol-global-disposition: G s=20121107; t=1358687394; bh=FnOTY7Px1zpAwjRDtCoBgIPYBM9HC6SEZbqdHCRVJG4=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=tOBpUuvE7zOhSo6iS+5zEGYs88RdyZjimKyK/+AlYxBOtYMKnmvbuenP+oFKzNYGw 9XBc+bZiZM8fwPPgPyVCfVbZrULpEW9XYZspyAdLnte7GaVyhtpIH1MOU1MEljauqw ViSLcihofSUvOX973IxSfef7dY4Ia0EPBHEoxo50= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338e50fbeca1040e Subject: [6pack] Ignition Switch Removal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Greetings 6-packers, My 73' s ignition switch has finally reached the point where I think I should replace it. The key is so sloppy that I have to turn it a dozen times before the starter will engage. It won't start now when the starter does engage. How do I remove the ignition switch? I see the reference to the small screw but can't find it. I think the ignition switch can be removed separately form the steering wheel locking mechanism. Thanks for help in advance. Steve Hughes Gainesville, FL 73 TR6 72 B 68 BGT 59 Morris Minor ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Jan 20 07:06:36 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90BA242499 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 07:06:36 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm13-vm0.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm13-vm0.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.91.48]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 152074247C for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 07:06:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [98.138.226.176] by nm13.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jan 2013 14:02:02 -0000 Received: from [98.138.89.162] by tm11.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jan 2013 14:02:02 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1018.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jan 2013 14:02:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 79266 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Jan 2013 14:02:02 -0000 s=s1024; t=1358690522; bh=sWmtU4w/OJdYWYrg0S0SR0huh4ii4LE5JaYO4Icw3N8=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=d1KRCvc1CizxRTbh/gdCUiJrbgrs5nSFJuTXz9zU3CKmY849izOoQg1wTX4Gdna6E4yx4C4xeWq/7eLiQXlQ/tE0Q9zhsZ1p0C2oDKrdsN6u/CnYeGd4/Hxj49JzmCQl8Ms+P6ARZrFfTTKINPwN+HVnTo7qsl5GQnOZJ0QDdwc= s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=3BSrbX9oLzjOWOlLvlUuXH/xWbiBYCAB0sD32g97F6YG8PgwOwE18eD6OAQ9O+FN0hlUJdk7kk7ZcOJmmderq7Ek7CkPvf0xnYANIibtObITQ07r823HXG/l+aA91L/3JaSwNnMz5um2nvkNgwhIBYGT9YrqdnzV2px1sV6svhE=; DKaY3JHBK1VQTrW1HxKg_BrBOE3hBktc_umpfCVyy2ONq_7bd0ey8w939wIW G9j7aW9MnOMBBgXb7yjrfKe4AaZ5QLwaCc9pBw300_axzlZAiyFCWD67_HoB VanMhHuOUA06fiYdxQZngI2IWRRi_qquq1GqTYKd_f6RK34FxGXbtF7rB75o au5Y8UWaadJu..Mb5Jno0tNZT_kI_ILkNBXvGMmkokHNRa1yZ7SodZoldoLs n_unfMUa0HCMHeaIYjpwqKxjrItpVC_WrLwPOApqJemq8nJN3Pn2UNTtz5xw 2qKJwUdwEe0CCw4XhtSQbaVdlbTS20ALh1NBLalC9ngwTwxKHtuE864QgUNV KJKO53gZJWGVUYCDgs1z4E1.AtMQtSl5NJzJofP5S4_IC02dgm_.qgM0wTp6 LHIUJEzwjryTzihVtGLG40BD7S3IQt.FqBhFyvMac_.wCRHxZl56eB7FdVOE j74BWXcjumcloMGuHS_80Ln9kLLaf_TeN2tVwnG5Mi60jU.h9lVDlHhOUq28 otRA0SgX2635iOG..SaE- Received: from [70.161.94.68] by web125506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 06:02:02 PST U3RldmUKwqAKSWYgdGhlIGhlYWRzIGFyZSBzdGlsbCBhdHRjaGVkIHRvIHRoZSB0YW1wZXIgcHJvb2YgYm9sdHMgZ2VudGx5LCByZW1vdmUgdGhlbS4gSWYgbm90IHRha2UgYSBkcmVtZWwgYW5kIGN1dCBzbG90cyBpbiB0aGVtLiBXaXRoIGEgcmFjaGV0IHNjcmV3ZHJpdmVyIGJsYWRlIGF0dGFjaG1lbnQgdGhlbiByZW1vdmUgdGhlbSBvciBhIHNxdWFyZSBzY3Jld2RyaXZlciBibGFkZSBhbmQgYSBjcmVzY2VudCB3cmVuY2guIFRoaXMgd2lsbCBnaXZlIHlvdSB0aGUgaWduaXRpb24gc3dpdGNoIGFuZCBsb2MBMAEBAQE- References: <8CFC52692241DF0-EE8-1626A@webmail-d095.sysops.aol.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 06:02:02 -0800 (PST) From: Dale To: "daybell7@aol.com" , "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] Ignition Switch Removal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Steve If the heads are still attched to the tamper proof bolts gently, remove them. If not take a dremel and cut slots in them. With a rachet screwdriver blade attachment then remove them or a square screwdriver blade and a crescent wrench. This will give you the ignition switch and locking mechanism. May need to rock the wheel while pulling down on the switch. It sounds like the electric part of the switch has failed as well. This is held in place on the back of the switch with avery very tiny screw. Good luck Dale ________________________________ From: "daybell7@aol.com" To: 6pack@autox.team.net Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 8:09 AM Subject: [6pack] Ignition Switch Removal Greetings 6-packers, My 73' s ignition switch has finally reached the point where I think I should replace it. The key is so sloppy that I have to turn it a dozen times before the starter will engage. It won't start now when the starter does engage. How do I remove the ignition switch? I see the reference to the small screw but can't find it. I think the ignition switch can be removed separately form the steering wheel locking mechanism. Thanks for help in advance. Steve Hughes Gainesville, FL 73 TR6 72 B 68 BGT 59 Morris Minor ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Donate: Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/tpdwinch@yahoo.com ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Jan 20 13:31:20 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87DEB424A5 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 13:31:20 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from mta21.charter.net (mta21.charter.net [216.33.127.81]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A6614249A for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 13:31:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from imp09 ([10.20.200.9]) by mta21.charter.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.09 201-2260-151-124-20120717) with ESMTP id <20130120202710.FREY10448.mta21.charter.net@imp09>; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 15:27:10 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.37] ([97.89.123.208]) by imp09 with smtp.charter.net id qLTA1k00U4VtFld05LTAAR; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 15:27:10 -0500 a=CbE/j3RIpx/hcDwmFN5tig==:17 a=Z_YIq9XYe_0A:10 a=yUnIBFQkZM0A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=hOpmn2quAAAA:8 a=2Rf_Zrw4y8oA:10 a=bB9XsXaNvBmYklFfdtUA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=CbE/j3RIpx/hcDwmFN5tig==:117 From: Bill Palmer To: 6pack@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 15:27:10 -0500 Cc: daybell7@aol.com Subject: [6pack] Ignition Key and Steering Column Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Steve, When restoring my '73, I took the key assembly off the column, Bought a new keyed switch and put it in my console. What I call console is the panel which holds my radio. If you look behind the console you will find two holes in the aluminum. I drilled the foam and leatherette covering these holes. Were a perfect fit for key and an electrical plug. I never really liked reaching between my legs for the switch. Locking steering wheels are just another place where problems can occur so mine no longer locks. KISS Hope this helps Bill ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Jan 20 13:55:40 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D599424B4 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 13:55:40 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from mailbox.cws.net (mailbox.cws.net [63.164.138.25]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89B1942487 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 13:55:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from [10.234.133.213] (mobile-198-228-233-226.mycingular.net [198.228.233.226]) (Authenticated sender: brian@asmoothmove.biz) by mailbox.cws.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 36BD21840087; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 14:51:31 -0600 (CST) From: Brian Alwin Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 14:51:11 -0600 To: Bill Palmer , "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net> Cc: "daybell7@aol.com" Subject: Re: [6pack] Ignition Key and Steering Column Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net I have a 72 and did the same thing. I love it on the console. I made a wiring pigtail so as not to destroy the original harness in case it needs to go back to original. Brian ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Jan 20 21:42:02 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 450754041E for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 21:42:02 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from mail-da0-f51.google.com (mail-da0-f51.google.com [209.85.210.51]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEE874040C; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 21:41:56 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-da0-f51.google.com with SMTP id i30so2523163dad.10 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:37:53 -0800 (PST) s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=4BOd6+0Qnf/P4BjaqmVzELcCpQ/fCpbE1CvXvfRC8Q4=; b=LcH3IXlvZrPOlvfCC4kSRJLyTbIYgkaV8Ghl3K7FiDgtOQIxRDQVDMY37Wvw0haPjX 05Ml3OjQv8OR6LNrBPGUPY9fQBbYh5Uq2kARd/2kdh0ZxsE6mmKs37JaKL17QMXe5V54 0sXP90Cypsa4X++56+TQwYPdGFWiL7cg55/po/KLlV7rIac62/KYRVx8g4m7O1l7lPO7 q3+/CzaUtqJPqBDaJ9YaQGP+Hpfo0ZjuPlrmc2LeV+p9YUUfDtf12cWzp5G1r4vwZGZa T30r5l5oWOtSDafY6ukUIp7ir2RZfVsExdt/SGi2F8q/ynlVVLREIuILlcPIQXK1lQ3z 8Agw== k8mr44024938pay.56.1358743073148; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:37:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.66.147.37 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:37:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:37:53 -0800 From: "Chuck Arnold and/or Kathleen Kelley" To: Friends , Triumph <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: [6pack] Tranny rebuilt problem looking for a solution Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net spent the afternoon reassembly the tranny for my TR6. All went OK till I tried to put the countershaft back in. The front thrust washer is hanging down about a 32 of an inch and nothing I have tried can move it up that little amount so the counter shaft can come through. I presume the washer has rotated a little such that the dimple is now not aligned with theslot at the top. anybody have any experience with solving this short of taking it all apart again and reassembling? ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 21 07:53:24 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D394A42529 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 07:53:24 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from blu0-omc4-s27.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc4-s27.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.111.166]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7CAD4055D for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 07:51:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from BLU171-W120 ([65.55.111.137]) by blu0-omc4-s27.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 21 Jan 2013 06:47:48 -0800 From: im sloane To: <6pack@autox.team.net> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 14:47:48 +0000 References: <20130120205557.D25B1424C8@autox.team.net> FILETIME=[47B73460:01CDF7E6] Subject: Re: [6pack] Ignition Key and Steering Column Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net You could also drill an extra hole in your switch plinth or purchase a 5 hole early plinth. My car is a 69 but a PO had put in a 4 hole plinth, car had no heater valve control. When replacing the heater control, I figured out the early cars had a 5 hole plinth. I just drilled a new hold in the center of the 4 hole plinth and it looks fine. Key goes on the right. Sloane :) 69-Six > > I have a 72 and did the same thing. I love it on the console. I made a wiring > pigtail so as not to destroy the original harness in case it needs to go back > to original. > Brian > > ________________________________________ > > 6pack@autox.team.net ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 21 08:59:51 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DED66403D8 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 08:59:50 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa07-10.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa07-10.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.192.239]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E01F54055D for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 08:59:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 13381 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2013 15:55:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (70.199.97.36) by p3plsmtpa07-10.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (173.201.192.239) with ESMTP; 21 Jan 2013 15:55:07 -0000 From: "Andrew Uprichard" To: "'Steve Thornton'" , , <6pack@autox.team.net> References: <8CFC57F7A5CBB97-1C2C-1BECE@webmail-m045.sysops.aol.com> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 10:55:02 -0500 Thread-Index: AQE4r7RoKm0Pyp+DNFJK97pf0Q01epl+frpA Content-Language: en-us Cc: bill.davis@wku.edu Subject: Re: [6pack] [TR] Surrey top help needed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Not an expert, but see below for what I know. Andrew Uprichard -----Original Message----- From: triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Thornton Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 6:46 PM To: triumphs@autox.team.net; 6pack@autox.team.net Cc: bill.davis@wku.edu Subject: [TR] Surrey top help needed Hello List- I purchased a surrey top for my TR250 this weekend, after a long search for one. It came with the back section and a steel mid section. My questions are- 1. What is the best way to store them when not in use? The back section isn't really designed for on and off, since it requires removing the interior panels to access the securing bolts and the door gap trim is continuous across the top itself. Can't speak for the mid-section since mine is soft. 2. Do you have to take the convertible top and frame off to install the surrey top? Yes - and you will have much more shoulder room. 3. Does anyone have a set of surrey top installation instructions? Not that complicated. I have pics is you want to contact me off-line 4. Does anyone know of a source for the soft top midsection and the frame that goes with it? I got mine from Racetorations (disclaimer - my cousin is the owner) Many thanks in advance. Steven O. Thornton Attorney at Law 1011 Lehman Avenue Suite 102 Bowling Green, KY 42103 270-781-6630 ** triumphs@autox.team.net ** Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/auprichard@uprichard.net ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 21 09:50:13 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D42242544 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 09:50:13 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm30-vm1.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm30-vm1.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.136.216.192]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEADC40409 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 09:49:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from [98.137.12.63] by nm30.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2013 16:45:38 -0000 Received: from [98.136.185.194] by tm8.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2013 16:45:38 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp103-mob.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2013 16:45:38 -0000 s=s1024; t=1358786738; bh=r2nqvm47v/lXzl71/XIYdihLvT8+8XxIxDvwbV/UsoE=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:References:Mime-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:Cc:X-Mailer:From:Subject:Date:To; b=rgARtwIAlmhlqEQMKftU+rtcOC1GIQDwEfU0cu6a1vXDkFJY4UpymPmWVPS+9Ft+gXzGnkz0CDxCn5veg79ohMMV+zHFPi1/Pz737pS5cyykAOWq5+sRzy6v30CUo9pH5Af9Im6jMMV8TVavc4XBVjew6TP3H6RQOWz2j7I39vI= .RkaAxMgT..b232leETRz242Qu9zzjGjpmkZG9XWs3XVfWR68zD3e8V54q5m VicWT8pq0cWvNetvQ6c24JSi4mdGq5OCSYguAMEv0jgg4rde.cfer1iLtvZ2 B3ufA80_iEAVa89F0SBwQ1hlPg8I6c9tM2ULhbMOf0A_k3R7ViyTDe.gCBZx ukHuDreGByiWi0NzIBS9.c73iqKKwiEQ9li5PNqiwT95tHNSZKirC_IUuSOe vKf.ZbYG_5ijwZGbz..4VaG_1lVuXraVEfRHZ.XHVFi3hrsiT262P68ooUn6 j97KzdodkXpPF.lnYDatvLXlHV5pXoEZ2kcdNGL5Ai.5XCUJIGwZ68uMFjF7 Hopu6ez3wQ9P2HmYUTUs9hczs0H0YmIe2BmcuE.eu_5VONXrUZ7b1aMV1o7Y GTEeTFj7yXOC19rO1RxK.JKHuvTWQ7GP8FxYiwtlDo4NbY7a.3DCxRy7JW18 cHcJYsqC2KElzDxbdS6LA Received: from [192.168.1.199] (apackard68@99.173.25.79 with xymcookie) by smtp103-mob.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2013 08:45:38 -0800 PST References: <8CFC57F7A5CBB97-1C2C-1BECE@webmail-m045.sysops.aol.com> <02de01cdf7ef$b0298d50$107ca7f0$@uprichard.net> From: Andy Packard Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 08:45:37 -0800 To: Andrew Uprichard Cc: "" , "bill.davis@wku.edu" , "<6pack@autox.team.net>" <6pack@autox.team.net>, Steve Thornton Subject: Re: [6pack] [TR] Surrey top help needed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net I bought my soft surrey and ladder frame from TRF. My mother in law made me a long slender canvas bag to store the top and frame in the trunk. I don't have a hard top section. Mine is a TR250 too and I love the extra space on the back shelf, but I need the windows up on the freeway to keep the wind from hitting the exact same spot on the back on my head over and over. Toughest part of the install are the studs at the corners and the nuts that go on them. It is definitely a permanent install though sine the convertible top is gone and the trim is one long continuous piece from A pillar to A pillar. Andy Packard Sent from my iPhone On Jan 21, 2013, at 7:55 AM, "Andrew Uprichard" wrote: > Not an expert, but see below for what I know. > Andrew Uprichard > > -----Original Message----- > From: triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net > [mailto:triumphs-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Thornton > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 6:46 PM > To: triumphs@autox.team.net; 6pack@autox.team.net > Cc: bill.davis@wku.edu > Subject: [TR] Surrey top help needed > > Hello List- > > > > I purchased a surrey top for my TR250 this weekend, after a long search for > one. It came with the back section and a steel mid section. > > My questions are- > > 1. What is the best way to store them when not in use? > The back section isn't really designed for on and off, since it requires > removing the interior panels to access the securing bolts and the door gap > trim is continuous across the top itself. Can't speak for the mid-section > since mine is soft. > > 2. Do you have to take the convertible top and frame off to install the > surrey top? > Yes - and you will have much more shoulder room. > > 3. Does anyone have a set of surrey top installation instructions? > Not that complicated. I have pics is you want to contact me off-line > > 4. Does anyone know of a source for the soft top midsection and the frame > that goes with it? > I got mine from Racetorations (disclaimer - my cousin is the owner) > > > Many thanks in advance. > > > > > Steven O. Thornton > Attorney at Law > 1011 Lehman Avenue > Suite 102 > Bowling Green, KY 42103 > > > 270-781-6630 > > ** triumphs@autox.team.net ** > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/auprichard@uprichard.net > > ________________________________________ > > 6pack@autox.team.net > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/apackard68@att.net ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 21 14:43:40 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ECDD40E2A for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 14:43:40 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from imr-db02.mx.aol.com (imr-db02.mx.aol.com [205.188.91.96]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B541C403F1 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 14:43:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaomg-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.203]) by imr-db02.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id E38FE1C000060 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 16:39:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-mtb002b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mtb002.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.234.197]) by mtaomg-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 766B7E000086 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Mon, 21 Jan 2013 16:39:26 -0500 (EST) To: 6pack@autox.team.net From: Hugh Sutherland Received: from 68.33.62.79 by webmail-d076.sysops.aol.com (205.188.181.102) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 21 Jan 2013 16:39:26 -0500 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 16:39:26 -0500 (EST) x-aol-global-disposition: G s=20121107; t=1358804366; bh=1f2lP2e1JvNYxCYs7FUY1hobXgPZ0xOLDC6XqqNWDpU=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ok4Fex0jOlkwcTFC983ZXk19JmYinDp5Z9D98rkULXSD54AwFHifq/6BMtZZVMYrp WThyYZIisKaWDk1Y2uem+qHV7jR6khOO+NYNu+I3klHdEzPvv/M7wBC5rUh3M+gGLf uljKNdhijRxxqwIL2ORasr/aCx0t3rfAXLhMTuI0= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33cb50fdb58e7201 Subject: [6pack] Any hard tops out there? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net All- I am on the hunt for a hard top for my 76 BRG TR6. Any leads would be appreciated. Thanks, Hugh Sutherland Alexandria VA ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Jan 22 12:27:13 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5274D42569 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 12:27:13 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from idcmail-mo1so.shaw.ca (idcmail-mo1so.shaw.ca [24.71.223.10]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCFB340533 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Tue, 22 Jan 2013 12:26:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from pd3ml2so-ssvc.prod.shaw.ca ([10.0.141.138]) by pd3mo1so-svcs.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 22 Jan 2013 12:22:23 -0700 cv=3f4U5fHrZLLPCzJ96ldNbjtja1zQ0ih230F6vdsLr5s= c=1 sm=1 a=idQYdKpjXQgA:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=v9YPm5MkDsKqLNOam70leg==:17 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=IIDE6o_CMSN134eAOnUA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=vVHhlVbjhPIA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 Received: from unknown (HELO ColinPC) ([174.6.76.60]) by pd3ml2so-dmz.prod.shaw.ca with ESMTP; 22 Jan 2013 12:22:23 -0700 From: "Colin Thom" To: <6pack@autox.team.net> References: Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 11:22:28 -0800 Thread-Index: Ac340tq5M7cJjPwpTw+plP7UOecYywAApEiw Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [6pack] Any hard tops out there? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Hi Hugh, I've got one but it's here in Vancouver, BC..that's a long way from Virginia. Keep it up your sleeve in case you can't find one closer to home. It's in reasonable shape but you'd probably want to replace the headliner if you want it to be perfect. It's primer grey and is missing a chrome trim piece on the right side if memory serves me. It's in the rafters of a buddy's garage and it's been a loooong time since I looked at it but it's here. Colin '75 -----Original Message----- From: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:6pack-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of 6pack-request@autox.team.net Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 11:00 AM To: 6pack@autox.team.net Subject: 6pack Digest, Vol 5, Issue 14 Send 6pack mailing list submissions to 6pack@autox.team.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/6pack or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to 6pack-request@autox.team.net You can reach the person managing the list at 6pack-owner@autox.team.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of 6pack digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Any hard tops out there? (Hugh Sutherland) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 16:39:26 -0500 (EST) From: Hugh Sutherland To: 6pack@autox.team.net Subject: [6pack] Any hard tops out there? All- I am on the hunt for a hard top for my 76 BRG TR6. Any leads would be appreciated. Thanks, Hugh Sutherland Alexandria VA ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ 6pack mailing list 6pack@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/6pack End of 6pack Digest, Vol 5, Issue 14 ************************************ ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 28 09:58:42 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 888A342260 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:58:42 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.200]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03EE4403DB; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:51:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from wm7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (wm7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.10.13]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPA id <0MHC00CKNH9EN890@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:46:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from [50.90.29.168] by webtop.webmail.optimum.net with HTTP; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:46:26 -0500 Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:46:26 -0500 (EST) From: dennis culligan To: triumphs@autox.team.net, 6pack@autox.team.net User-Agent: Laszlo Mail 3 Subject: [6pack] Anything "British" happening in/near Indianapolis? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net List - Looks like I will be here in Indianapolis for at least a week or two. I know it's winter but is there anything LBC-related happening within an hour or two of Indy? Thanks. Dennis Culligan, not in Highland, NY / 1976 TR6 CF57948U ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 28 10:13:51 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F7B0422E2 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:13:51 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from imr-db02.mx.aol.com (imr-db02.mx.aol.com [205.188.91.96]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86CCD40337 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:13:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mtaomg-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.140]) by imr-db02.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 503451C00017D; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:08:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-msc005c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-msc005.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.233.209]) by mtaomg-da04.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 9E619E000088; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:08:43 -0500 (EST) References: <13d111c.133500.13c820d7ace.Webtop.13@optonline.net> To: dctr6@optonline.net, triumphs@autox.team.net, 6pack@autox.team.net From: Joe Alexander Received: from 216.51.203.118 by webmail-d021.sysops.aol.com (205.188.181.23) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:08:43 -0500 Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:08:43 -0500 (EST) x-aol-global-disposition: G s=20121107; t=1359392924; bh=owYyyuAaA22QsInGST+Hmrlvzg33jPSpS6QIztLUovg=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=vpxoHKVBVa7xGpD0hWgtzVVuPUXgA4cFtbFyorFU7upPNVrOa8AAsiUZPGe3lo9zS ORVu5fomodP8V/TbYXRGb73cM6+qJyaYjYvKJ7K4ByaPwLm0ARUM0ykMfNZ+yKZSrH 7+TKZwE5ifSx+YIfQb7kxmW1ewJHi1rcLp6G6gMM= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338c5106b09b2e0b Subject: Re: [6pack] Anything "British" happening in/near Indianapolis? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Dennis, If you were in Iowa, we'd keep you busy. Joe Alexander A. R. E. 645 1st Street Jesup, Iowa 50648 319.464.4711 (cell) n197tr4@cs.com -----Original Message----- From: dennis culligan To: triumphs ; 6pack <6pack@autox.team.net> Sent: Mon, Jan 28, 2013 10:53 am Subject: [6pack] Anything "British" happening in/near Indianapolis? List - Looks like I will be here in Indianapolis for at least a week or two. I know it's winter but is there anything LBC-related happening within an hour or two of Indy? Thanks. Dennis Culligan, not in Highland, NY / 1976 TR6 CF57948U ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/n197tr4@cs.com ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Jan 28 13:01:28 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19E3442273 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:01:28 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from mail-we0-f170.google.com (mail-we0-f170.google.com [74.125.82.170]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC71140533 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 12:51:37 -0700 (MST) Received: by mail-we0-f170.google.com with SMTP id z53so1788606wey.29 for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:46:56 -0800 (PST) s=20120113; h=x-received:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=gcNqMaoNtu8cgHG/IQNzkmJuXwsNk3N5ug7z3X04AjE=; b=GesSoVXU+89yVrc97flqpOjQWeBWGm+7h61h2xEJhOciYEgNkh5exsGfNR7Yc9uJ0y za868iy7zhFCM7dtV9SIqbCaeJt0oPZXzsExdgMOzmbnJkTm10Jy5uzaV9ExGcsgRwBX WrLHCMto84Jwk8VLbR4jbQozViOCXUe91+667H1GLvy4ZOKi1ENeOHPjmrzoU0qTK5SN FeNj2ZdjbcYUGe8+ldcOwtf7i6ANJd45vFufHwgMGogrGCRmQAIpKp4dvbPYXkpRGumc ufZJBNr/fm1Yg45Bd9PxLVjuAwLvxRcjtHHUM6dBIj0u7UcNtoR6VBS9wqlochkzXNNu 2IkA== hu3mr11730858wib.31.1359402416031; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:46:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.22.201 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:46:35 -0800 (PST) From: John VanNorman Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:46:35 -0500 To: 6-Pack <6pack@autox.team.net> Subject: Re: [6pack] Anything "British" happening in/near Indianapolis? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Dennis, At about two and a half hours away from Indianapolis, it is farther away than you may be wanting, but on Feb. 9th Buckeye Triumphs is having our third "Cabin Fever Swap Meet." More info here: http://columbus.craigslist.org/pts/3551814351.html John V. > > List - > Looks like I will be here in Indianapolis for at least a week or two. > I know it's > winter but is there anything LBC-related happening within an hour or two > of Indy? > Thanks. > Dennis Culligan, not in Highland, NY / 1976 TR6 CF57948U ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net From 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Jan 31 04:00:31 2013 Return-Path: <6pack-bounces@autox.team.net> Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE2EA42907 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 04:00:31 -0700 (MST) Delivered-To: 6pack@autox.team.net Received: from nm19.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com (nm19.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.94.237.220]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52BE04052B for <6pack@autox.team.net>; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 03:57:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from [66.94.237.196] by nm19.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2013 10:52:50 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.106] by tm7.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2013 10:52:50 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1011.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2013 10:52:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 66113 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Jan 2013 10:52:50 -0000 s=s1024; t=1359629570; bh=JoUf2JqLAMnCS6lL2WJrSB72f7xSGxaILmB5uTtaYIA=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ECymVhh7TwUTPjhvxaHsg5TVsr/Ns6WSfVbQHupsF/NY1DhdgNLVq4U7wl5GaS3XjmIgsKJ9iyq34kq7k1F8tCxSSxG4UlrbcAvp2lnc+ROWUVpRvwKfaR22i0+j+kEqaixCnt4p3Y6Oypqq9S2F9J2RzATWB59CnEZkbg5mOqc= s=s1024; d=bellsouth.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=iRWg8PImy/s40numr7S4xoxGa+K6GfBvtPQrH7Yeh7Q00cntveWq2kgnZa5xGxJmaCLthZ4Fu8vSXrW0E0m5PHTxgbuU4Lvr2kkbI1i/OY5WbNsyuqhaWJviCKzZNxMggUyi32g4eFAPmdqHGEKALf8XYEmVsIRLF9ScUbNJdMk=; pr5hEK0rI8n0cOi3nXUGVLHkeloPYu.08PJmytYDmZkIgygpe_D1Hyac6WWA OGzjQXUUGAFcD6aQXaYR8lOOvIfF.s9t4OEYPUmThxQ9v7GVyr20SZLUtF6C QhTpW.r0DLB4JZnM5R_1vRRhfIfeRnAhcGF9YT11Mzje8VmKi4wRj7S7K_ks GPK9NGIpOjEZ6N1LlrM.MgzOHwX.R1ywN03JT8jnXvu1sudoZGZkQyWM4ZBx 7Xp1cbOH1RDsoK9msdHrjvvIvtZR_nxHPnHTYnooKzRcjNdCmSFEJnc3ETfS LxLITbgs1DeB.tIUFL6IpfFgbQFN5x_YJ.qpt8R0keiT10KFTa8xyPzzjvNM gsnhW9AxkHUTq2i_ps0ajmkjXX.SqPsl4NUvEd4.bHU_8e9dwqZuE1GsfWw1 cQh1JA6VZ5GWBh0mA8ruxF30munmuK3j.g_BAzqr3SUzFOw5bG.z2Y5HZ9H1 U9CG5xWU_tolxb3tr1UdlaYhzDq9EwXjGxsUo3YOgoR47H3NRDumPRuz0CyU 5WOuRrjGsdfwgRaM4q5GoCk5_pAjcCKPcA1BsEbc- Received: from [109.241.32.69] by web184704.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 31 Jan 2013 02:52:50 PST aHR0cDovL3d3dy5sYXV0emVydC1vYmVyZHJlaXMuZGUvaW1hZ2VzL3lvdXJwb2ludC5waHAKCgo9PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09CkJ1dGNoIE9saXZlcgEwAQEBAQ-- Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 02:52:50 -0800 (PST) From: Butch Oliver To: "soccermom92@comcast.net" , "butch@benradcliff.com" , "Bandemac1@cs.com" , "6pack@autox.team.net" <6pack@autox.team.net>, "doug@benradcliff.com" , "brandimac1@bellsouth.net" , "lucasdistributors@yahoo.com" , "robert.brunke@ngc.com" , "dm17363@yahoo.com" Subject: [6pack] (no subject) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: 6pack-bounces@autox.team.net http://www.lautzert-oberdreis.de/images/yourpoint.php ================ Butch Oliver ________________________________________ 6pack@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/6pack/mharc@autox.team.net