From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Sun Dec 1 21:20:02 2002 From: "Michael Hartwig" To: Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 22:16:33 -0600 Subject: Need piston help Some one the MG V8 list suggested I post here, so here goes Anybody have specs for Rover pistons? I'd like to have the compression height and dish cc. Now the whole story. 88 RR engine. I had initialy bought Keith Black Silvolite pistons (at least I think they are). When it can time to calculate the compression ratio. I came up with 7.775. Ugh, I know. I asked for pistons for a buick at the engine parts warehouse. Here are my numbers. Piston dish: 14cc Combustion chamber: 34cc Headgasket. .045" (Felpro composite) Deck height .067" My brother says that deck height is no good and that I need to get it lower. So what happened. Did I somehow get 8.13CR Rover pistions, then with the thicker felpro gasket it took me down to 7.775? I thought Buicks only came with 8.8 and 10.5 CR. Do the buick heads have a different volume? Assuming all my measurements are right, what next. Should I get some rover pistons? What CR should I go for? 9.35, 9.75? I'd prefer to run 87 octane. Who has the best prices? Rimmerbros has a set of 9.75 for $288 with rings and pins. RPI $256 with rings only. I wouldn't need the rings, as I have a nice set of Moly rings already. Any good sources in the states? Mike /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Mon Dec 2 20:05:10 2002 From: "Michael Hartwig" To: , Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:01:35 -0600 Subject: Need piston help (update) I tore down the engine to recheck my measurements tonight. I do have Silvolite pistons. model 1718. So the CR should be 8.8 according to silvolite. The compression height is 1.845. There must be something else that is different. The Felpro gaskets cannot make up that much. I ran the calculations between .045 and .020 head gasket thicknesses and it worked out to about 0.4 difference in the compression ratio. Does anyone have specs for Rover pistons? I'd like to use the 9.35 pistons, but I want to make sure that something else isn't wrong before buying another set of pistons. mike /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Mon Dec 2 21:18:56 2002 From: StagbyTriumph@aol.com To: mhartwig@midsouth.rr.com, mgb-v8@autox.team.net, Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 23:11:56 EST Subject: Re: Need piston help (update) In a message dated 12/2/02 8:02:54 PM Mountain Standard Time, mhartwig@midsouth.rr.com writes: > There must be something else that is different. The Felpro gaskets cannot > make up that much. I Sounds to me like there is a stroke issue. Have you compared the old piston wrist pin position to the new piston wrist pin position? Regards, Glenn Merrell President, Triumph Stag Club USA http://www.triumphstagclub.org/ StagbyTriumph@aol.com ***J*O*I*N**Y*O*U*R**T*R*I*U*M*P*H**C*L*U*B**T*O*D*A*Y***** **Member of VTR, TSC, SOC **7*3**S*T*A*G**x*2**************************************************** /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Mon Dec 2 22:09:17 2002 From: mga To: scottdon@napanet.net Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:02:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: Car/parts hauling Hello Listers: My friend, Dan Grinnell, who used to have a British car repair shop in Santa Rosa, CA, is driving a large truck with trailer from New England to central Ohio, then on to Sacramento and Los Angeles. He can be reached at 508-369-3359 or e-mailed at mymokeis@hotmail.com. He can haul running cars, parts cars, car parts, motorcycles, etc. This is not a corporate type business, just a guy that does this for a living. I continue to recommend him highly- he brought my TR8 from PA to Napa Valley and my MGA from the Sierras. And a few months back he transported a '66 MGB for me; not a long distance but had to get it through some mud that was a foot deep! Don Scott '91 Miata BRG '80 TR8 '73 MGB GT '62 MGA '59 Riley 1.5 /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Tue Dec 3 13:16:15 2002 From: Kent Kinard To: buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 14:06:24 -0600 Subject: Crankshaft question Hi V8'ers, In digging through the storage building, I have come across a 215 crank that is marked "steel" in raised letters. I had thought all 215 cranks were cast iron. Was the Jetfire crank steel? I have several Jetfire blocks, but did not remember haveing a Jetfire crank. Kent K. /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Tue Dec 3 16:49:36 2002 From: "HoYo" To: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 17:42:35 -0600 Subject: Fw: Buick 300 4 bbl. intake for sale ----- Original Message ----- From: "HoYo" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 4:28 PM Subject: Fw: Buick 300 4 bbl. intake for sale > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "HoYo" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 4:03 PM > Subject: Buick 300 4 bbl. intake for sale > > > > Hi Gang, > > you ole' bad boys,i mean nasty boys.... > > a friend of mine who is ISP challenged has an intake manifold he wants to > > sell(i'd buy it my self but the prick-bastard sold the heads without > > offering it to me!!) > > It's an aluminum 4bbl. Buick intake from a 1964 Buick 300 engine, GM > > #1359122 'S' it appears.....he wants$150.00 FIRM or he'll put it on evil > > eBay where they go for $200-$400.(firm??,he,he).....lemme know if you're > > interested.....oh,and you'll have pay s/h i'm sure as "ol' tight-ass" > > won'.t.........thanks! HoYo > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kent Kinard" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 2:06 PM > > Subject: Crankshaft question > > > > > > > Hi V8'ers, > > > In digging through the storage building, I have come across a 215 crank > > > that is marked "steel" in raised letters. I had thought all 215 cranks > > > were cast iron. Was the Jetfire crank steel? I have several Jetfire > > > blocks, but did not remember haveing a Jetfire crank. > > > > > > Kent K. /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Wed Dec 4 15:50:49 2002 From: "HoYo" To: , , Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:43:19 -0600 Subject: F/S i have an original early 3000 wavy grill,excellent shape, pro'lly would need to be rechromed to satisfy the Concours gods, the top center mounting tab is broken off but no rust,straight and of better quality than the reproductions...$100. pix on request...HoYo also 2 door skins for a BJ7(and 8??) that came from who knows where, black primer very "slight" surface rust,pix on reqwuest, $50. for the pair.....kids need the unemployed Santa to get them SOMETHING for Christmas!! thank s! HOHOH OYO ps lots of MGB,some MGC,Morris Minor 1000(948,1100),1974 Peugeot 504,Ford Mustang('67) and 1979 Ford p/u , 1978 Datsun p/u,1978 Ford van,1987&1990 Volvo 740,Fiat X1/9(1974) parts for sale. sorry to bomb the list but Santa needs to "come".....HoYo /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Wed Dec 4 18:48:41 2002 From: David Kernberger To: Kent Kinard Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:44:11 -0800 Subject: Re: Crankshaft question 12/4/02 Kent, What have you found out about that crankshaft? I have certainly never heard anything about any such animal so am curious. Cheers, David Kernberger -------------------------------------------------------- >Hi V8'ers, >In digging through the storage building, I have come across a 215 crank >that is marked "steel" in raised letters. I had thought all 215 cranks >were cast iron. Was the Jetfire crank steel? I have several Jetfire >blocks, but did not remember haveing a Jetfire crank. Kent /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Thu Dec 5 09:10:51 2002 From: "bown" To: Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 09:02:14 -0700 Subject: Fw: D&D Fabrication I read this on the mgb-v8@autox.team.net list. I didn't know if it had also been posted here. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 6:11 PM Subject: D&D Fabrication > Guys, This may be old news to you but I was cruising ebay and found a late Rover shortblock, the most interesting part was that it was listed by D&D Fabrication. There was a link to a website, and lo and behold Dan is now on the net. No ordering but he seems to have a very complete list of products online. I found it at www.aluminumv8.com. If anyone didn't know, then go have a look. james > > _______________________________________________ /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Sat Dec 7 19:49:17 2002 From: "" To: buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 21:41:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: transmissions Gents, I sent a question to the mgb-v8 list recently and someone recomended I send it here. I have an mgbgt-v8 that I built with an olds engine with the optional F-85 4speed and bellhousing. I am looking for a 5-speed to replace it with, the standard conversion transmission is the GM T-5. I was wondering if there is a drop in replacement 5-speed to replace the factory T-10. It is not inconcevable to replace the T-10 with a T-5 but I have already built in the T-10 and would like to save my crossmember, driveshaft and other adaptations to fit the T-10. If anyone knows of a bolt in replacement I would love to know. Thanks in advance,James _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Sat Dec 7 22:34:08 2002 From: lmg@gomog.com To: james_nazarian@excite.com Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 00:29:12 -0500 Subject: Re: transmissions >I have an mgbgt-v8 that I built with an olds engine with the >optional F-85 4speed and bellhousing. I am looking for a 5-speed >to replace it with, the standard conversion transmission is the >GM T-5. advance,James Why not use the Rover 5 speed? The earlier models require deliberate shifting but the recent model called the R380 is beefier and slick. They give you a wide range of bellhousings to choose from as the unit is/was used in many cars. An old unit and housing will cost you about $550 from Autogear in England and a new R380 and housing will cost you $1500 from Rpi. /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Sun Dec 8 20:08:31 2002 From: David Kernberger To: buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 19:03:24 -0800 Subject: Transmissions 12/8/02 Hello all, To clarify a perhaps minor point---All T-10 Warner transmissions I have ever seen or heard of have a splined output shaft for a slip joint connection to the driveshaft----except the 61-63 Buick Special/Olds F-85 applications. I believe these are the only ones which have a rigidly mounted u-joint flange. Cheers, Dave Kernberger /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Sun Dec 8 23:44:12 2002 From: "Simon & Maresa" To: Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 17:34:39 +1100 Subject: Rover EFI Hi Guys I'm in the process of building up a Leyland 4.4 p76 V8 that will be fitted with Rover heads and Rover hotwire EFI by using a pair of Hard Court's manifold adapters. I am looking at fitting new injectors with a larger capacity any ideas? Anyone got a complete wiring diagram for hotwire injection ? I am thinking of running stock hotwire efi with larger injector and an adjustable pressure regulator to get the Rangie back on the road while i buildup a new Leyland with buick heads and possibly supercharged! Thanks Simon Robbers /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Mon Dec 9 08:08:23 2002 From: "bown" To: "David Kernberger" , Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 08:06:32 -0700 Subject: Re: Transmissions Dave, I wonder how much different the drive-shaft is for the manual shift cars (as compared to the automatic shift cars). I believe that the middle joint on an automatic car is a slip joint. I wonder if it is the same (or a different) slip joint on a manual shift car? Regards, Jim B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Kernberger" To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 8:03 PM Subject: Transmissions > 12/8/02 > > Hello all, > > To clarify a perhaps minor point---All T-10 Warner transmissions I > have ever seen or heard of have a splined output shaft for a slip joint > connection to the driveshaft----except the 61-63 Buick Special/Olds F-85 > applications. I believe these are the only ones which have a rigidly > mounted u-joint flange. > > Cheers, > Dave Kernberger /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Mon Dec 9 12:57:08 2002 From: "HoYo" To: , Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 13:56:28 -0600 Subject: Intake Manifold?? Hi all, hope this is appropriate. Can some one tell me what model/year/etc. a manifold i own is from?? It is an aluminum one that came from a B-O-P V8, pro'lly Buick or Olds '61-'63.....it's # is 587544 CFD there's also a K 346 M1 below the part no. line above. I think it may be from a Turbo due to the differences in it and another 2bbl. manifold i have ALMOST identical to it EXCEPT for some WEIRD pedistal and linkage located between ports#1 and 3 ,closer to #3 actually .THANKS!! HoYo /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Mon Dec 9 18:23:05 2002 From: David Kernberger To: "bown" Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 17:25:45 -0800 Subject: Re: Transmissions 12/9/02 Jim, I am reasonably certain that the only difference, if any, is the length of the front portion. The slip joint should be the same. There is a double constant-velocity u-joint in the center also--right behind the support bearing, I seem to remember. By the way, all drivelines must include a slip joint somewhere to allow change of length as the rear axle moves up and down. Of course, if the differential is rigidly mounted, as in some independent rear suspension systems, then none would be needed. Regards, Dave Kernberger ---------------------------------------------------- >Dave, >I wonder how much different the drive-shaft is for the manual shift cars (as >compared to the automatic shift cars). I believe that the middle joint on >an automatic car is a slip joint. I wonder if it is the same (or a >different) slip joint on a manual shift car? >Regards, >Jim B. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "David Kernberger" >To: >Cc: >Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 8:03 PM >Subject: Transmissions > > >> 12/8/02 >> >> Hello all, >> >> To clarify a perhaps minor point---All T-10 Warner transmissions I >> have ever seen or heard of have a splined output shaft for a slip joint >> connection to the driveshaft----except the 61-63 Buick Special/Olds F-85 >> applications. I believe these are the only ones which have a rigidly >> mounted u-joint flange. >> >> Cheers, >> Dave Kernberger /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Tue Dec 10 20:02:53 2002 From: "Susan and Jack Brooks" To: Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 18:59:25 -0800 Subject: Distributor My TR8's "in distributor" OPUS electronic ignition is officially dead and I am looking at a GM points type distributor to replace it. I will most likely upgrade to electronic ignition later on. I am looking at the distributor which was used in the 215, 300, 340 and 350 Buick engines, the 481813 and 481812. I'm not quite sure what the differences are. Can anyone help explain the differences? Also, should I be considering the HEI distributors? I know there are some fitment issues with these distributors and the TR8's manifold and one bolt. Thanks in advance, Jack Brooks Covington, WA 1960 TR3A 1980 TR8 /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Wed Dec 11 02:30:52 2002 From: "Neil" To: "David Kernberger" , "bown" Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:34:18 -0000 Subject: Re: Transmissions Even with a chassis mounted diff (ie independant rear suspension) there is still a need for some length compensation. Triumph Herald/Spitfire/GT6/Vitesse uses a slip joint, others use CV joint to allow for tolerances and moving of components on their rubbers. The last thing you want to do to many bearings is add axial loadings. Neil ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Kernberger" To: "bown" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 1:25 AM Subject: Re: Transmissions > 12/9/02 > > Jim, > > I am reasonably certain that the only difference, if any, is the > length of the front portion. The slip joint should be the same. There is > a double constant-velocity u-joint in the center also--right behind the > support bearing, I seem to remember. By the way, all drivelines must > include a slip joint somewhere to allow change of length as the rear axle > moves up and down. Of course, if the differential is rigidly mounted, as > in some independent rear suspension systems, then none would be needed. /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Wed Dec 11 20:40:12 2002 From: "" To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net, buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 22:39:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: T56 Since I am entertaining mounting a new gearbox in my BV8, does anyone know anything about the T56 found in late model camaros and the like? Like how big is it? It seemed on ebay that there are two different case designs, anyone know anything there? Are there any good references for reading up and comparing trannies? james _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Wed Dec 11 21:02:06 2002 From: "Larry Hoy" To: , Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 21:01:32 -0700 Subject: RE: T56 James, it is a MONSTER transmission. As I recall the bell housing is interregnal to the transmission and does not fit the rover. It requires major surgery to graft the BOPR bell housing to the transmission. Check with Glen Towery or Dan LaGrue. They have all the details. Every once in a while Glen pops in on this list, perhaps he's reading this. Larry Hoy > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-mgb-v8@autox.team.net > [mailto:owner-mgb-v8@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of > james_nazarian@excite.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 8:40 PM > To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net; buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net > Subject: T56 > > > Since I am entertaining mounting a new gearbox in my BV8, > does anyone know anything about the T56 found in late model > camaros and the like? Like how big is it? It seemed on ebay > that there are two different case designs, anyone know > anything there? Are there any good references for reading up > and comparing trannies? james /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Wed Dec 11 22:13:25 2002 From: "" To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net, buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net, Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 00:12:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: T56 Yea, I figured as much. I just thought I'd ask. I didn't think the chances of something like this fitting were very good, since it was never intended to go into a small car. James -- On Wed 12/11, Larry Hoy < list@marketvalue.net > wrote: James, it is a MONSTER transmission.As I recall the bell housing is interregnal to the transmission and doesnot fit the rover. It requires major surgery to graft the BOPR bellhousing to the transmission.Check with Glen Towery or Dan LaGrue. They have all the details.Every once in a while Glen pops in on this list, perhaps he's readingthis.Larry Hoy _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Sun Dec 15 00:40:11 2002 From: "" To: mgb-v8@autox.team.net, buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 02:40:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: pushrods Hi all, I tore my engine down and boy was it bad, I don't have the energy to write up the results tonight but I do have a few questions so I'll ask those tonight and I'll send the writup tomorrow. I'm going to send the questions seperately to try and keep track of them. question #1: can anyone describe the cross-section shape of the BOP connecting rods, I think mine were modified but I want to be sure. james _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Sun Dec 15 00:44:02 2002 From: "" To: buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net, mgb-v8@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 02:44:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: camshaft ID Hi again, Question #2: I would like to id my limited edition 4 piece camshaft that came out of my modified olds engine, if possible. There are two identifying markings on the cam; the first is that the area between the first bearing and the first lobe on the cam is painted red. The second marking is on the back of the last bearing, at the end of the cam. It is engraved with the number 100, 180 degrees out from that is an 'M' with a circle around it then the number 'J152' then another 'M' with circle around it. Everything else seemed to have a GM cast into it somewhere so any help in ID of this cam would be great. james _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Sun Dec 15 00:48:20 2002 From: "" To: buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net, mgb-v8@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 02:48:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Cam specs Last question for the evening,This is of the more general type. How can I measure the specs of a cam off of the cam itself. If I recall the important dimensions are lift, duration, seperation or overlap, and the angle at which each valve opens. Can anyone describe, with the use of a degree wheel, how to measure for all of the important specs of a cam. Thanks a lot, a full description of my discoveries will follow tomorrow when I have a little more energy. james _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Sun Dec 15 15:23:51 2002 From: "" To: buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net, mgb-v8@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 17:24:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: Blown engine details Now that I am rested, here are the details of my engine failure. Unfortunately, my hopes of a recoverable situation were thuroughly dashed. The engine was balanced as evidenced from the markings of 1-4 L and R on each rod and piston. I think that the rods were originally of an H beam design with a ridge or bar around the entire beam and small end; my rods were H beam in shape and clearly showed that the small ends and the beam had been ground, what leads me to beleive that there was another ridge around them was that about 3/4 inch of this bar was left on each side of the rods where the big ends tapered into the beam. It was the #3 rod that broke, the small end was still in the piston, and I know this to be the source of the failure because one peice of the H that was left exposed by the failure was the same darkened color as the whole inside of the block (almost black). So I know that the rod was cracked for a very long time, if not from the factory. The engine had 1100 miles on it since the rebuild from the PO. My feeling is that when they removed the extra ridge from around the rod, in an effort to lighten them, the remaining rod was no longer strong enough to hold the crack together. So the rod snapped at the top of its stroke, because there was no indication of impact damage to the bottom of the piston which was sitting at the top of the bore. About 1/3 of the skirt was missing from the #3 piston, including half of the wrist pin bearing surface on one side. Either the rod broke and the action caused the fracture of the piston, or the piston broke, cocked in the bore and caused the rod to break. I think it was the first one because there was no damage to the #3 sleeve. The rod removed a chunk of the block, on the passenger side, under the engine mount of about 25 square inches, gutted the pan on that side,crushed and tore the motor mount (stock olds mount), and opened up the galley from pickup to oil pump and broke open the water jacket; on the other side it punched straight through the block about 5 times and punced straight through the pan about 8 times. The #3 rod swung through the #4 sleeve about two inches up, and cracked and holed the piston on both sides, in line with the damage to the sleeve. It also hit the cam; the cam broke between the #2 intake lobe and the 2nd bearing, this first section consisting of the front of the cam and the first 4 lobes walked out, the timing chain started to eat the cam gear and all four spokes of the cam gear cracked. The second bearing and the next two lobes (#3 cyl) broke and were forced up in the journal about 40 degrees, the #3 exh lobe was the only one showing significant damage, was in line with the broken rod, and was forced up tells me that this was the point of impact. The #3 rod was curved about 30 deg presumably from this impact. The next two lobes, for #4 cyl, were in the pan, however the big end cap of the #4 rod showd significant signs of damage from impacting this. It bent the bolt hole around one of the rod bolts and I had to hammer the rod apart from this damage, the crank shows a few small dings from the same impact, the remainder of the cam, from the 3rd bearing back (4cyls worth) was intact. What I think happened was that the #3 rod hit the cam made the rear most break (at 3rd bearing) which left a bent cam connected to the timing gear. The bent, spinning cam then impacted the #4 rod cap causing the other fractures, forced the cam to angle up, cracked the timing gear, and broke out the lifter guides for the #3 int and exh and the #4 exh. One of those pushrods was severely bent, but I found them all in the pan so I don't know which one. The #4 exh rocker broke where the valve arm joins the rockershaft bearing surface. I think that when all of this happened the #7 intake was open and the valve colided with the piston, because this was the worst bent rod of all, I think this is what caused the back halft of the cam to stop turning. I saw no visual indications that any of the pistons had collided with any of the valves, everything looked decent and without telling scratches or dents. One of the lifters from the #3/4 area was shattered and about 1/3 of them were chipped around thier cam surface. Most of the valve train and block parts were found in the oil pan, along with the remains of the coolant and the oil. I also found some magnetic parts that were probably from the #3 rod, since about 1/2 inch of it is unacounted for. The bearings from #3/4 big ends look perfect as does the rest of the bottom end except #3 and #4's parts. That leaves me in need of an entire engine as even the heads are suspect if enough force made it up there to break a rocker arm. The valley pan gasket was severly dented up around #3/4 but the intake showed no signs of being hit. Basically I think my only useable parts are the flywheel, pulleys, front cover, intake, exhaust, and valve covers. Oh well. AND THE MORAL OF THE STORY IS.... you really ought to magniflux old parts, especially if you are going to try and lighten a stock part. It looks like the rod was cracked from new but it was probably the loss of so much strengthening material that caused it to let go. Unfortunately the motor was built about a dozen years ago, buy a guy that was into these motors in Medina, OH. My dad traded him an old Oliver tractor for the motor and trans, so no chance of reimbursement or anything there. Whew!!! I think that about covers it.James Nazarian71 B tourer71 BGTV8 with ventilated block and 4 piece cam85 Dodge Ram with bad gas mileage _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Sun Dec 15 15:26:28 2002 From: "" To: buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net, mgb-v8@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 17:26:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: block question How, can I tell if the block was decked or if the head was shaved? Are there places to measure such things?James Nazarian71 B tourer71 BGTV8 with ventilated block and 4 piece cam85 Dodge Ram with bad gas mileage _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Sun Dec 15 16:42:42 2002 From: "" To: buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net, mgb-v8@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 18:43:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: Blown engine details I found a small picture of a rod on Dan Lagrou's site and it appears that my rods were not modified just ground to remove the casting ridges.James Nazarian71 B tourer71 BGTV8 with ventilated block and 4 piece cam85 Dodge Ram with bad gas mileage--- On Sun 12/15, < james_nazarian@excite.com > wrote: I think that the rods were originally of an H beam design with a ridge or bar around the entire beam and small end; my rods were H beam in shape and clearly showed that the small ends and the beam had been ground, what leads me to beleive that there was another ridge around them was that about 3/4 inch of this bar was left on each side of the rods where the big ends tapered into the beam. _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Sun Dec 15 20:48:51 2002 From: StagbyTriumph@aol.com To: james_nazarian@excite.com, buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net, Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 22:49:10 EST Subject: Re: block question In a message dated 12/15/02 3:31:00 PM Mountain Standard Time, james_nazarian@excite.com writes: > How, can I tell if the block was decked or if the head was shaved? Are > there places to measure such things? Any half reputable engine shop with the ability to do this work will stamp the block on the head surface, usually top front, and stamp the heads on the head surface in the same location. You should find a 005 or 010 indicating the deck or skim. Regards, Glenn Merrell President, Triumph Stag Club USA http://www.triumphstagclub.org/ StagbyTriumph@aol.com ***J*O*I*N**Y*O*U*R**T*R*I*U*M*P*H**C*L*U*B**T*O*D*A*Y***** **Member of VTR, TSC, SOC **7*3**S*T*A*G**x*2**************************************************** /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Thu Dec 19 23:58:32 2002 From: "" To: buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net, mgb-v8@autox.team.net Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 01:58:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Last bit of engine details For today's project I finished tearing everything down and inspected the heads and some smaller parts. I discovered that only 4 of my pushrods were perfect, 4 were marginal, and the other 8 were definately bent. I also discovered that I showed signs of valves hitting the pistons in all 8 cyls. At least 5 valves are visibly bent. All of the installed heights of the valve springs are roughly correct but the tops of the valves are all at different heights, seems the spring seats are all at different heights by 30 thou or so. I also discovered that all of my valves are slightly oversized, by .019 on the intake and .034 on the exhaust. I looked up the head casting numbers and found they were 43cc chambers but only got 40cc when I cc'd them. On the left bank I had one .020 thick head gasket, on the right bank I had two gaskets totaling .035 thick. I think they were the new ones but were stuck together and got installed together. I don't think any of this caused my problems, but I do think it would have caused them later had the rod not broken, who knows at this point. I do know that the rebuild seemed to be half assed, and was a time bomb waiting to explode.James Nazarian71 B tourer71 BGTV8 with ventilated block and 4 piece cam85 Dodge Ram with bad gas mileage _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Sat Dec 28 03:44:02 2002 From: "Simon Birkby" To: Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 10:44:35 -0000 Subject: Last bit of engine details list [demime 0.99d.1 removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list /// From buick-rover-v8-owner@autox.team.net Mon Dec 30 09:05:11 2002 From: Barrie Robinson To: mgs@autox.team.net, mgb-v8@autox.team.net, buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net, Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 11:01:15 -0800 Subject: Virus virus on the wall! Folks at world I regularly get viruses sent to me - but I never open them of course. The only "outside" list of correspondents I have are on these lists so I have to assume that they come from some unfortunate persons on these lists. However, I have been attempted-zapped by a virus which has a rather cunning presentation which again was nicely blocked by Mrs Norton's little son, Avey. The purpose of this missive is to warn against this particularly cunning format. The email purports to be an advisory of a non-delivered email. So the recipient may think "Oh, I wonder which message I sent that was not delivered" and open the dreaded virus infected file that accompanies the failure of delivery message. The standard warning applies DO NOT OPEN ATTACHMENTS WITHOUT PRE-SCANNING FOR VIRUS'. Regards Barrie Barrie Robinson - barrier@bconnex.net /// /// buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net mailing list ///