From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jun 1 03:30:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mharc@autox.team.net Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B0DE2D0411 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2012 03:30:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Original-To: fot@autox.team.net Delivered-To: fot@autox.team.net Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com (hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com [71.74.56.122]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D88F2D0353 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2012 03:24:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=T6AOvo2Q c=1 sm=0 a=GnMEISLh6JRH6pSStlFk9A==:17 a=7KaaxAUCt-sA:10 a=xPNQBHjY-WoA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=7N_aJbbPAAAA:8 a=JcvzPq48AAAA:8 a=_juTsQuhwxzz8fcdwF8A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=J0aUVQLP0FIA:10 a=m3MdUl94G8cA:10 a=INQB15XkED0A:10 a=GnMEISLh6JRH6pSStlFk9A==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 67.255.16.235 Received: from [67.255.16.235] ([67.255.16.235:49522] helo=Russlaptop) by hrndva-oedge04.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 9E/04-01775-F8A88CF4; Fri, 01 Jun 2012 09:25:35 +0000 From: "Spitfire Racing" To: "'william r tobin'" , References: <1355A8325EDD408C936E7E9C5F3FA342@owner8914bbf7f> In-Reply-To: <1355A8325EDD408C936E7E9C5F3FA342@owner8914bbf7f> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 05:25:32 -0400 Message-ID: <001201cd3fd8$7e808490$7b818db0$@rr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac0/oyLRl0QQnZPNTcyDGFt6sgyZ+AANRIhg Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Fot] Prospective member/racer X-BeenThere: fot@autox.team.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Private List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sender: fot-bounces@autox.team.net I'll second........but now he should follow through and get that TR4 and have the time of his life! If you've never gone to Mosport in June you owe it to yourself. Russ Moore Spitfire #49 -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of william r tobin Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 10:32 PM To: fot@autox.team.net Subject: [Fot] Prospective member/racer Hi all. We have an organization around Erie called SOB, Sons of Britain. Anyone who has anything British is welcome. Kinda like the FOT, no officers, dues, or any other constraints. They have monthly meetings, have a September car show, have various tours around the area, and will have a summer party at my farm July 29 (if you happen to be in the area). One of the guys, Mike Moore, is thinking about getting a TR4 to race and asked me if he could be put in touch with the FOT; he'll have a bunch of questions and could be helped immensely by the FOT's knowledge. I'll recommend if I can get a second. mmoore@wave1.net I'll probably head for Mid Ohio in late June for the vintage event. Thanks, Bill _______________________________________________ fot@autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/spitfire_racing@twcny.rr.com _______________________________________________ fot@autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mharc@autox.team.net From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jun 1 03:51:39 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mharc@autox.team.net Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09AA52D0411 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2012 03:51:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Original-To: fot@autox.team.net Delivered-To: fot@autox.team.net Received: from mail.o2.co.uk (yoda.london.02.net [82.132.130.151]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66EB32D03D3 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2012 03:39:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [10.28.8.11] (82.132.238.213) by mail.o2.co.uk (8.5.119.05) id 4EEB65B019FFFB47; Fri, 1 Jun 2012 10:40:32 +0100 References: <7041997.1338401615997.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <002601cd3f3b$a1a4e0d0$e4eea270$@com> From: TR4 Tony In-Reply-To: <002601cd3f3b$a1a4e0d0$e4eea270$@com> Message-Id: <2E4F25FA-EF7F-47F4-94CE-424197BB0930@virgin.net> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 10:35:43 +0100 To: MadMarx Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9B176) Cc: FOT Subject: Re: [Fot] LSD X-BeenThere: fot@autox.team.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Private List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sender: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Chris Soft engine mounts ??? Or are you running a torque reaction arm that is touching the chassis ??! Tony Sent from my iPhone On 31 May 2012, at 15:42, "MadMarx" wrote: > I have the trouble that the car does pull a little to the right "on > throttle" and to the left "off throttle". > > Does anybody see a reason for that? > > http://youtu.be/uMKqfOfSqGE > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot@autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4.tony@virgin.net _______________________________________________ fot@autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mharc@autox.team.net From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jun 1 05:51:37 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mharc@autox.team.net Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33F3E2D0281 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2012 05:51:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Original-To: fot@autox.team.net Delivered-To: fot@autox.team.net Received: from mail-bk0-f41.google.com (mail-bk0-f41.google.com [209.85.214.41]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 750E42D033E for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2012 05:33:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by bkcjm19 with SMTP id jm19so2364385bkc.14 for ; Fri, 01 Jun 2012 04:34:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer :thread-index:content-language; bh=A1yBIWJSq7/VnAEkJlEbrwD8OrD4eFanHftwvIe6qwQ=; b=LZY/YwfoNZKRgEQVDeFKdkqT7iRyiq3YZmF7+6XjvETWJsFMOro24VesUUY32NNRZv u62RYya1eejQxMz07TgeikT4zsqCgxeCi1aoTAkMzhbQpm1W0qUHm+Hmyg6AAMCHr4tz 9JaXhhsdd+kq/pSTX0ChCTgCXswxgXVTXY85pjTZ0+fEKztbegameu8f+rUVS45MOsp0 jv/+RlDDQ0YzI8rc1aR3RXN3SNgTPuGGL4njAj1M3pjUXf7AktJ0AlCmWRWCgViQNoVR nsU0ZWN7jsApj+nfBaKvyhcvj/e03X1xGIeuRu1JXamptf8SE0CrZ+wh1HoaomSQaD7P F7HA== Received: by 10.205.120.17 with SMTP id fw17mr1509646bkc.20.1338550463707; Fri, 01 Jun 2012 04:34:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Home (ip-109-84-55-127.web.vodafone.de. [109.84.55.127]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fw10sm1724513bkc.11.2012.06.01.04.34.21 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 01 Jun 2012 04:34:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "MadMarx" To: References: <7041997.1338401615997.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <002601cd3f3b$a1a4e0d0$e4eea270$@com> <8CF0D6CDF76227F-AE8-32AC@webmail-m167.sysops.aol.com> <20120531185341.BB3452D0330@autox.team.net> <67008F0C-CD27-4E84-A109-C89004B64573@bnj.com> <20120531201756.036962D036B@autox.team.net> <20120601014146.748D92D03F3@autox.team.net> <4FC82887.0@bradakis.com> In-Reply-To: <4FC82887.0@bradakis.com> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 13:34:23 +0200 Message-ID: <000401cd3fea$7fdc8cf0$7f95a6d0$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac0/ouox9bEaIlY5RueSSKvHzPNtewARusBw Content-Language: de Subject: Re: [Fot] LSD X-BeenThere: fot@autox.team.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Private List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sender: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Marks comment did lead me to an theory: If the force of the prop shaft makes that the rear axle press the left wheel on the ground and pulls the right wheel slightly up this would cause the axle to steer because the leaf springs are higher mounted at the rear than in front. If the right wheel goes up and the left goes down the rear axle would change direction to the left.....which make the car going to the right "on throttle" - opposite "off throttle" As I change axle ratio from 4.1 to 4.55 the engine force is greatly increased which might result in more steer from the axle. Could this be? If so, then torque rods are now mandatory. Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] Im Auftrag von Mark J Bradakis Gesendet: Freitag, 1. Juni 2012 04:27 An: fot@autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] LSD There is also the reaction of the axle housing against the propshaft. The shaft turns one way, the axle reacts in the opposite direction. One wheel is pushed a bit harder into the rollers, one lifted a bit up. mjb. _______________________________________________ fot@autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing@googlemail.com _______________________________________________ fot@autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mharc@autox.team.net From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jun 1 08:46:27 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mharc@autox.team.net Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C7582D03A5 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2012 08:46:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Original-To: fot@autox.team.net Delivered-To: fot@autox.team.net Received: from fbr04.mfg.siteprotect.com (fbr04.mfg.siteprotect.com [64.26.60.139]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5A992D028B for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2012 08:46:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtpauth04.mfg.siteprotect.com (smtpauth04-mf.mfg.chicago.hostway [192.168.33.79]) by fbr04.mfg.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48C0F9C986 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2012 09:46:49 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Charly (unknown [97.126.78.235]) (Authenticated sender: charly@mitchelplumbing.com) by smtpauth04.mfg.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4B1FA5D8085; Fri, 1 Jun 2012 09:46:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <062A92E5D1664226976EE6C74FA0496B@Charly> From: "Charly Mitchel" To: "MadMarx" , References: <7041997.1338401615997.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net><002601cd3f3b$a1a4e0d0$e4eea270$@com><8CF0D6CDF76227F-AE8-32AC@webmail-m167.sysops.aol.com><20120531185341.BB3452D0330@autox.team.net><67008F0C-CD27-4E84-A109-C89004B64573@bnj.com><20120531201756.036962D036B@autox.team.net><20120601014146.748D92D03F3@autox.team.net> <4FC82887.0@bradakis.com> <000401cd3fea$7fdc8cf0$7f95a6d0$@com> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 07:35:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 120601-0, 06/01/2012), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A020206.4FC8D5D7.00DB,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 Subject: Re: [Fot] LSD X-BeenThere: fot@autox.team.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Private List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Errors-To: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sender: fot-bounces@autox.team.net You say this happened when you went from a welded diff to a LSD. Could this be caused by the way the torque is delivered to the wheels? On a welded diff, the wheels get exactly the same amount of torque with no split between the sides. With a LSD, there is the possibility that one wheel may get more torque than the other. At this point I think that all the items mentioned before also come into play. I would believe the only way to remedy this would be to put on the torque rods (traction bars) to positively locate the rear axel, and keep from having spring wind up. Make sure you make the mounting fairly stout, as I witnessed a TR4 have one break several weeks ago. and BTW, torque steer is fairly common in TR6's. Charly Mitchel > Marks comment did lead me to an theory: > > If the force of the prop shaft makes that the rear axle press the left > wheel > on the ground and pulls the right wheel slightly up this would cause the > axle to steer because the leaf springs are higher mounted at the rear than > in front. > If the right wheel goes up and the left goes down the rear axle would > change > direction to the left.....which make the car going to the right "on > throttle" - opposite "off throttle" > > As I change axle ratio from 4.1 to 4.55 the engine force is greatly > increased which might result in more steer from the axle. > Could this be? > If so, then torque rods are now mandatory. > > Chris > > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] Im > Auftrag von Mark J Bradakis > Gesendet: Freitag, 1. Juni 2012 04:27 > An: fot@autox.team.net > Betreff: Re: [Fot] LSD > > There is also the reaction of the axle housing against the propshaft. > The shaft turns one way, the axle reacts in the opposite direction. > One wheel is pushed a bit harder into the rollers, one lifted a bit > up. > > mjb. > _______________________________________________ > fot@autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tr4racing@googlemail.com > _______________________________________________ > fot@autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/charly@mitchelplumbing.com _______________________________________________ fot@autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mharc@autox.team.net From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jun 1 08:59:15 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mharc@autox.team.net Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC7262D03F6 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2012 08:59:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Original-To: fot@autox.team.net Delivered-To: fot@autox.team.net Received: from mail168c2.megamailservers.com (mail168c2.megamailservers.com [69.49.111.68]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26C042D02FF for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2012 08:59:08 -0600 (MDT) X-POP-User: blbowen.gdhs.com Received: from jhhasty ([64.128.77.10]) by mail168c2.megamailservers.com (8.13.6/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q51Exo4N008914; Fri, 1 Jun 2012 10:59:56 -0400 From: "john hasty" To: "'Rocky Entriken'" , , References: <4c2a2.5b44e6bb.3cf96b39@aol.com> <508AFCF13C40472B8C95BBC1EABC84D8@rocky> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 10:59:49 -0400 Message-ID: <7157E6CC7D984A77B1786B91497C8094@gdhs.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ac0/oOHYviW/22+DQTS8QU5ek7nysgAZjtVg In-Reply-To: <508AFCF13C40472B8C95BBC1EABC84D8@rocky> X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=1.1 cv=qXnopIQob64JffIXGyV7g7KJCUbxi3Zd50BiYiY7wJw= c=1 sm=1 a=oTokXoKVEGMA:10 a=4XwCEAaBuO8A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=B8rx5kvwQHCoTlY5PM2Gsg==:17 a=mkkZP590AAAA:8 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=JcvzPq48AAAA:8 a=xFKyJiilAAAA:8 a=0fPFzS_l1Sh_UxCnmgcA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=J0aUVQLP0FIA:10 a=qtyMPpPvNdoA:10 a=JFLLmj4W_BAA:10 a=JgL6sTUlBcsA:10 a=0vksvMZRuTEA:10 a=Ki9j9A26RgQA:10 a=m3MdUl94G8cA:10 a=uWM2GsfHPyAA:10 a=LuNFSA0Xe1kA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=o6OwA3o9ZFcA:10 a=QeAktAC_c53Bocso:21 a=NbQexTtDzKx1mYbT:21 a=B8rx5kvwQHCoTlY5PM2Gsg==:117 X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A02020A.4FC8D8ED.0028, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing In Golden Gate Park X-BeenThere: fot@autox.team.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Private List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sender: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Good Lord, I was already at Wake Forest in 1953! John H. Hasty Attorney At Law Guthrie, Davis, Henderson & Staton, P.L.L.C. 719 East Boulevard Charlotte, North Carolina 28203-5113 Tele: (704) 372-5600 Fax: (704) 372-4601 E-mail: jhhasty@gdhs.com www.gdhs.com PRIVILEGE AND CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message (and any attachments) is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is PRIVILEGED and CONFIDENTIAL, and/or may contain ATTORNEY WORK PRODUCT. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please erase all copies of the message and its attachments and notify us immediately. Thank you. IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE: In order to comply with certain IRS regulations regarding tax advice, we inform you that, unless expressly stated otherwise, any tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for purposes of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein. -----Original Message----- From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Rocky Entriken Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 10:27 PM To: Catpusher@aol.com; fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing In Golden Gate Park At the risk of dating myself, I was there for the 1953 races. As a pre-teen kid, I didn't know much about racing and nothing about SCCA at the time, but I thought this one guy in a red car whose name rhymed was cool. Of course, I didn't know anything about Phil Hill then either. --Rocky Entriken ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 7:47 PM Subject: [Fot] Racing In Golden Gate Park > For some years I prepped and stored our race car across the street from > Golden Gate Park in SF, and I so wished that I could race there when faced > with flat towing many hours to places like: SIR, Westwood, Riverside, and > Road Atlanta. Over the years I have asked many people where the course > was, > with no clear answer. It was with pleasure that I read Monday's SF paper > and > found a map of the course, and about a new book about the early 1950s > races, co-authored by our own Gary Horstkorta. > > TR Regards, > Hardy > _______________________________________________ > fot@autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rocky@spitfire4.com _______________________________________________ fot@autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhhasty@gdhs.com _______________________________________________ fot@autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mharc@autox.team.net From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jun 1 13:06:31 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mharc@autox.team.net Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D4532D039F for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2012 13:06:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Original-To: fot@autox.team.net Delivered-To: fot@autox.team.net Received: from nm3-vm4.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm3-vm4.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.91.163]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 486012D0271 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2012 12:40:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [98.138.90.49] by nm3.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2012 18:41:28 -0000 Received: from [68.142.200.224] by tm2.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2012 18:41:28 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.108] by t5.bullet.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2012 18:41:27 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1013.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2012 18:41:27 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 649883.28706.bm@omp1013.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 47117 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2012 18:41:27 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1338576087; bh=bTYTSpjCXCxsl3/6ABOxJ9ryeaL1Kz89Hvn4HdtsbLk=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ac8ObsbW7GechTjZwH2FKdzATgw3pbpyVPIr48R4khgnK3cFo5q9UZmZM+c+53z9/B0SeHECJiY0YUr7uvKPqxelTRwyibOYlnwpUDmPqNHj9MxiH1NnfEojG1rSfCDDEw5zhEAHnwA/TwfrWor3UDL7WKCxQPE3Mw1B5FCO848= X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: 2z2r6uMVM1n9vLcnaZJ99wpGuDaoE.MzlI9zts4bTJp4W4s eDqw9U4fYshpbE_p1e3.7hFRy1CHyUHogauYbcfKQiiI0jnv5mjNjKeSo8hY gabn21cTt.TXwuUZjz9z1tDFUaLxNclQ9MIVNDebQrqUHif0L4pSlKGJiWno ZbCcCTnQhdaoPLjuERr6zRCRDQQcnWj4MfI5Ws7MkkeHGMRFry7t6hCmKIlj 2JUG_UW2pP1tJJ77WkuC1ajku3Fks60cFSUL88lk3jkL.fM7m67ykbSK2xFj J7SqBjBkyY_T3R1SZtMHVgx11qE7rFpIxQSTCZ3jrUR9i27a.HttJLheD8JL 61Kl4Eq6NVLgYW5n_Ih3jhDi5RZYEezSGkQ87SAD.tsx0YGgTIWr3BdRViSV p8C00UZM4eraswqZ2aKVxrwv5wQVMvs.6.EmzGtVlbHIV4.KJwVdk9ChZBdZ 5cyPld.fs2E50B.UMrJ3Y_UZOhevTR3pqDmqq_ZI.JEom9CJCncj7XZmQzH0 6pVjGY7Dj3fK460cT60V06_xqLA3bqoTrjRPFsLLWMi93zscqGuEha5l_rux x8CK1i6vl.jtg9aGbfJGD7zRFZjkuiYkjX5vk26d2MMHL5OsD1575fTZb1ej CGFUbbnqQw8aAizlH7nKq3.FHhMN_G423eTHAKWaEe8lOko_UTzcSpWcgRf9 JRNPdUrOc1n9qeK6VfjH3W169sA9LoFv.qy8- X-Yahoo-SMTP: fhSFPoKswBA1Qu0MYZzweGiC3N0dSAP.juSmk79kTA-- Received: from [192.168.1.69] (cartravel@99.98.59.54 with plain) by smtp110.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 01 Jun 2012 11:41:27 -0700 PDT Message-ID: <4FC90CD5.8080509@pobox.com> Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2012 13:41:25 -0500 From: Larry Young User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fot@autox.team.net References: <488373492.326076.1338525500312.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <488373492.326076.1338525500312.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing In Golden Gate Park X-BeenThere: fot@autox.team.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Private List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Errors-To: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sender: fot-bounces@autox.team.net You might enjoy Bill Pollack's book "Red Wheels and White Sidewalls: Confessions of an Allard Racer". He talks about that race among many others. On 5/31/2012 11:38 PM, vintage.racer@comcast.net wrote: > Yesterday as part of the annual Sonma Historic Motorsports Reunion at Infineon Raceway (actually, as of today Infineon's naming rights expired so it is now Sonoma Raceway), the track held a press conference celebrating the 60th anniversary of the races in Golden Gate Park. Present were three local ex-drivers who participated in those races and three of the original cars that were driven in the races - an ex-Phil Hill Aston Martin DB2, a 1950 Jaguar Parkinson Special and the Mercury flathead powered Baldwin Special. Amazing to see the drivers (all in their early 80s) and the three cars together. It was a kick to watch the ex-drivers all bench racing about the old days. > > This Saturday at the track they will have a seminar with the 1952 race winner, Bill Pollack (event Grand Marshall) plus five of the ex-drivers that raced in the Park. The event is receiving local TV, newspaper and as you've seen, Internet coverage. > > Gary Horstkorta > Archivist - SF Region/SCCa > 1962 TR4 > 1969 TR6 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Clark W. Nicholls" > To: Catpusher@aol.com, fot@autox.team.net > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:41:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Racing In Golden Gate Park > > Is this it, Hardy? > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/05/27/BAIJ1OM33L.DTL > Another... > http://larkspurcortemadera.patch.com/articles/driver-returns-to-days-of-glor > y > > Clark > Clark W. Nicholls > 1972 Stag (LE7931E), 1974 Spitfire (FM14571U) > and 1 rusty GT6 needing new owner > "Reality, it's not what you think." > _______________________________________________ > fot@autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/vintage.racer@comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > fot@autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/cartravel@pobox.com _______________________________________________ fot@autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mharc@autox.team.net From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Jun 1 17:50:55 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mharc@autox.team.net Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C8072D028B for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2012 17:50:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Original-To: fot@autox.team.net Delivered-To: fot@autox.team.net Received: from snt0-omc2-s23.snt0.hotmail.com (snt0-omc2-s23.snt0.hotmail.com [65.55.90.98]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 663F42D0276 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2012 17:20:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from SNT0-P6-EAS51 ([65.55.90.73]) by snt0-omc2-s23.snt0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 1 Jun 2012 16:21:17 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [32.166.30.235] X-Originating-Email: [rikrock@live.com] Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Rich Rock Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2012 19:20:49 -0400 To: fubog1 , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Jun 2012 23:21:17.0593 (UTC) FILETIME=[3EEC1090:01CD404D] Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Engine Block numbers X-BeenThere: fot@autox.team.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Private List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sender: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Another data point: TVR 2500M. From the TVR plate affixed to body: Build date January 1974. Engine # CF 24923 UE I'll check the numbers on my 1971 Vixen 2500 over the weekend. Rich Rock -----Original Message----- From: fubog1 Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 9:12 AM To: duncan.charlton54@gmail.com; tlizzard@msn.com Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] Engine Block numbers What I believe is the original engine from my '72 2500 "hybrid" is CC84762UF. Glen -----Original Message----- From: Duncan Charlton To: Terry Stetler Cc: 'fot' Sent: Thu, May 31, 2012 8:50 am Subject: Re: [Fot] Engine Block numbers I've never figured out whether the numerals would have been sequential if the engines were sent to other car manufacturers, but I suspect they were. Whereas I don't know if TVR engines were marked specifically for TVR use, Morgan TR engines had a different suffix -- ME instead of E, but retaining the prefix of TS or CT. Duncan (Texas) On May 30, 2012, at 10:13 PM, Terry Stetler wrote: > Not to mention the several hundred engines sold to TVR over the course of the > years. There were in the neighborhood of 350 Vixen 2500s and who knows how > many M Types with the TR6 engine. > My Vixen is the one car I never should have let slip away... > > > Terry Stetler > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joe Curry > To: 'Mark J Bradakis' ; > 'fot' > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 10:28 PM > Subject: Re: [Fot] Engine Block numbers > > > The further along in the production sequence, the further off the numbers > got. This is because engines were pulled from the warehouse for warranty > replacement and dealer spares stock, while commission numbers continued in > numerical sequence. > > Joe > _______________________________________________ > fot@autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/duncan.charlton54@gmail.com _______________________________________________ fot@autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/fubog1@aol.com _______________________________________________ fot@autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/rikrock@live.com _______________________________________________ fot@autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mharc@autox.team.net From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jun 2 11:11:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mharc@autox.team.net Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B2182C0D06 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2012 11:11:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Original-To: fot@autox.team.net Delivered-To: fot@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wi0-f179.google.com (mail-wi0-f179.google.com [209.85.212.179]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4293A2D01B6 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2012 11:07:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by wibhr14 with SMTP id hr14so1226503wib.2 for ; Sat, 02 Jun 2012 10:08:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:thread-index :content-language; bh=Dpd/aJTfaoKV2vSrEaZDpK1VcVe7ZeL7yYSlHJwE9ZU=; b=K6PIWC2UzWQcw3OBU/KUxVGCYUMsO8+c4psCjXqzEmjVCdyKq7VlbiXDFgubpFH3hm 0P3XSyQRmAozKLrEHWE/GdD9IX/nCn+NjAQ58q+5u/jb64k4D/Cb/Lc9mFdu1WmcB79H DZK3ghLdLHeP0Bir3BT8yvYySlJcndqOdcccCStlv+gx2J90Jif4tPayY7+p9FSFiW8a 6Fd7UrNpdkdnNgZKdu5Z29Uv3D+Klh1ihm8KX7HOjWTIqJPn3P2LDR8C/+h0J9O0OBuM hFuwZJgEuvcypi5jBnJXXNhxisO7Gk/7P782r7v7ubw5GpCrjR0fH5bNo1BjzqY2BD9Y q09g== Received: by 10.216.208.130 with SMTP id q2mr5509629weo.141.1338656929878; Sat, 02 Jun 2012 10:08:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Home (ip-109-41-237-169.web.vodafone.de. [109.41.237.169]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k8sm9711058wia.6.2012.06.02.10.08.42 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 02 Jun 2012 10:08:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "MadMarx" To: References: <7041997.1338401615997.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <002601cd3f3b$a1a4e0d0$e4eea270$@com> <8CF0D6CDF76227F-AE8-32AC@webmail-m167.sysops.aol.com> <20120531185341.BB3452D0330@autox.team.net> <67008F0C-CD27-4E84-A109-C89004B64573@bnj.com> <20120531201756.036962D036B@autox.team.net> <20120601014146.748D92D03F3@autox.team.net> <4FC82887.0@bradakis.com> <000401cd3fea$7fdc8cf0$7f95a6d0$@com> <95CFFEAB-6654-4F70-80D1-BCEC56C80A29@virgin.net> In-Reply-To: <95CFFEAB-6654-4F70-80D1-BCEC56C80A29@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 19:08:44 +0200 Message-ID: <003001cd40e2$6305e650$2911b2f0$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac1AquOOrDjmc1VrSUuK+lgXi0PN3QANzvZA Content-Language: de Subject: Re: [Fot] LSD X-BeenThere: fot@autox.team.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Private List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sender: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Hi Guys, I installed rods to the axle. http://youtu.be/QPCCN96x8_U The leaf spring is now calmated but the car does oversteer badly. Seems to stiffen up the suspension now. I'm not sure if I should maintain that idea. Cheers Chris _______________________________________________ fot@autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mharc@autox.team.net From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jun 2 12:04:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mharc@autox.team.net Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C220D2D04C2 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2012 12:04:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Original-To: fot@autox.team.net Delivered-To: fot@autox.team.net Received: from mail-we0-f169.google.com (mail-we0-f169.google.com [74.125.82.169]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDBC72D029C for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2012 12:04:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by wefh52 with SMTP id h52so2717314wef.14 for ; Sat, 02 Jun 2012 11:04:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:thread-index :content-language; bh=QMY0pdFM55r6N+Ja1z/F6t0wTh75EJs4JNZiAcKk3Xg=; b=MVkgMaw3VzCcueHfs0k0u2WaBgbb4TmZT9LIPof8ZnhcFGl9Oh5/y3uufZfG9EcDbd a0JDL2MXszTYqBkCqhbBLXqNMB35okAIWfyerxlp7g5ox+qTNFttDUpP94wBHKhyxmnS NfTZYXoNdrBxid2Ze/UadZ/uuVJgNqClJBadiX/su30f52G/brstbYYHzqwb184OsLn0 +d2EbUfBrjeu3GcuVjbo6iM4YXrH13ko8+BmULOguLK2Stx4iGVwulahcX+ZcRMVgk9f uSMLJ7oSZWgsxQvVLS2GoMzIYcVE6z/fZMjg7FV2rh0VNDtdGb3QEjxHH1Q5DhAy49aa 43Og== Received: by 10.216.139.73 with SMTP id b51mr5880407wej.72.1338660296370; Sat, 02 Jun 2012 11:04:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Home (ip-109-85-177-172.web.vodafone.de. [109.85.177.172]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r2sm10223954wif.7.2012.06.02.11.04.54 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 02 Jun 2012 11:04:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "MadMarx" To: References: <7041997.1338401615997.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <002601cd3f3b$a1a4e0d0$e4eea270$@com> <8CF0D6CDF76227F-AE8-32AC@webmail-m167.sysops.aol.com> <20120531185341.BB3452D0330@autox.team.net> <67008F0C-CD27-4E84-A109-C89004B64573@bnj.com> <20120531201756.036962D036B@autox.team.net> <20120601014146.748D92D03F3@autox.team.net> <4FC82887.0@bradakis.com> <000401cd3fea$7fdc8cf0$7f95a6d0$@com> <95CFFEAB-6654-4F70-80D1-BCEC56C80A29@virgin.net> <003001cd40e2$6305e650$2911b2f0$@com> <25DFDA0C-A4EB-4D14-9EEE-19396B0AD529@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <25DFDA0C-A4EB-4D14-9EEE-19396B0AD529@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 20:04:56 +0200 Message-ID: <000601cd40ea$3ac11630$b0434290$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac1A5naY/dfmmkO+S2KeYyhUWs+FPAAA1d0A Content-Language: de Subject: Re: [Fot] LSD X-BeenThere: fot@autox.team.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Private List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sender: fot-bounces@autox.team.net I used an idea from a engineering book but I suppose that the angle of the rod is too large. I drove into a McDonald parking when the left rod snapped. With one working rod the on-off-throttle steer was back again...greatly more than it was but the car felt much better. So I'm going back to the stock situation and remove the rods. Cheers Chris And thank you all for input. Learned a lot. -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Duncan Charlton [mailto:duncan.charlton54@gmail.com] Gesendet: Samstag, 2. Juni 2012 19:38 An: MadMarx Betreff: Re: [Fot] LSD Chris, Does the rod's arc of movement exactly match that of the axle? That is, does the front mount of the reaction rod use the same axis of rotation as the front eye of the spring? If not, it's trying to twist the axle relative to what the spring is doing, creating resistance to movement, adding roll stiffness. Another approach might be to clamp together the front leaves of the spring but leave the rears alone. One other solution I've seen (on a Sunbeam Tiger) was to wrap the front end of the second leaf around the spring eye bushing (inside the main leaf eye, and using a smaller-diameter bushing), effectively doubling the stiffness of the front half of the spring. Duncan (Texas) On Jun 2, 2012, at 12:08 PM, MadMarx wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I installed rods to the axle. > > http://youtu.be/QPCCN96x8_U > > > The leaf spring is now calmated but the car does oversteer badly. > Seems to stiffen up the suspension now. > I'm not sure if I should maintain that idea. > > Cheers > Chris > _______________________________________________ > fot@autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/duncan.charlton54@gmail.com _______________________________________________ fot@autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mharc@autox.team.net From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jun 2 12:47:02 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mharc@autox.team.net Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7EF52D0284 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2012 12:47:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Original-To: fot@autox.team.net Delivered-To: fot@autox.team.net Received: from vms173005pub.verizon.net (vms173005pub.verizon.net [206.46.173.5]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AC6D2D01C8 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2012 12:46:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([unknown] [96.240.185.138]) by vms173005.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0M5000LOZ6V6FOHW@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net> for fot@autox.team.net; Sat, 02 Jun 2012 13:47:35 -0500 (CDT) X-Vipre-Scanned: 1D740AFB002EDF1D740C48-TDI Message-id: <4FCA5FC4.7090604@blacksburg.net> Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2012 14:47:32 -0400 From: "J.C. Hassall" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100722 Eudora/3.0.4 MIME-version: 1.0 To: MadMarx References: <7041997.1338401615997.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <002601cd3f3b$a1a4e0d0$e4eea270$@com> <8CF0D6CDF76227F-AE8-32AC@webmail-m167.sysops.aol.com> <20120531185341.BB3452D0330@autox.team.net> <67008F0C-CD27-4E84-A109-C89004B64573@bnj.com> <20120531201756.036962D036B@autox.team.net> <20120601014146.748D92D03F3@autox.team.net> <4FC82887.0@bradakis.com> <000401cd3fea$7fdc8cf0$7f95a6d0$@com> <95CFFEAB-6654-4F70-80D1-BCEC56C80A29@virgin.net> <003001cd40e2$6305e650$2911b2f0$@com> <25DFDA0C-A4EB-4D14-9EEE-19396B0AD529@gmail.com> <000601cd40ea$3ac11630$b0434290$@com> In-reply-to: <000601cd40ea$3ac11630$b0434290$@com> Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] LSD X-BeenThere: fot@autox.team.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Private List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Errors-To: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sender: fot-bounces@autox.team.net On 6/2/2012 2:04 PM, MadMarx wrote: > I used an idea from a engineering book but I suppose that the angle of the > rod is too large. > I drove into a McDonald parking when the left rod snapped. > With one working rod the on-off-throttle steer was back again...greatly more > than it was but the car felt much better. > So I'm going back to the stock situation and remove the rods. > > Cheers > Chris > And thank you all for input. Learned a lot. > > > Chris, as I recall from my old DP car with a Detroit Locker differential; the car would squat to one side or the other under acceleration/deceleration; after I installed a set of torque rods the problem went away. It is important to have the axis of the rod parallel to the frame when the car is at half suspension travel. That should minimize surprises as the suspension hits the limits, as Duncan said below. By the way, it appeared from your video that the rods were welded to the top of the axle. Mine were mounted to a plate under the spring pad; the front of the rods mounted to a bracket I welded to the frame. I have some pictures of a Traction Master rod like I had installed which I can send if you want them. Gluck auf! jim > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Duncan Charlton [mailto:duncan.charlton54@gmail.com] > Gesendet: Samstag, 2. Juni 2012 19:38 > An: MadMarx > Betreff: Re: [Fot] LSD > > Chris, > > Does the rod's arc of movement exactly match that of the axle? That is, > does the front mount of the reaction rod use the same axis of rotation as > the front eye of the spring? If not, it's trying to twist the axle relative > to what the spring is doing, creating resistance to movement, adding roll > stiffness. > > Another approach might be to clamp together the front leaves of the spring > but leave the rears alone. One other solution I've seen (on a Sunbeam > Tiger) was to wrap the front end of the second leaf around the spring eye > bushing (inside the main leaf eye, and using a smaller-diameter bushing), > effectively doubling the stiffness of the front half of the spring. > > Duncan > (Texas) > > On Jun 2, 2012, at 12:08 PM, MadMarx wrote: > > >> Hi Guys, >> >> I installed rods to the axle. >> >> http://youtu.be/QPCCN96x8_U >> >> >> The leaf spring is now calmated but the car does oversteer badly. >> Seems to stiffen up the suspension now. >> I'm not sure if I should maintain that idea. >> >> Cheers >> Chris > -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go _______________________________________________ fot@autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mharc@autox.team.net From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jun 2 13:19:47 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mharc@autox.team.net Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 289EA2D0281 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2012 13:19:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Original-To: fot@autox.team.net Delivered-To: fot@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wg0-f51.google.com (mail-wg0-f51.google.com [74.125.82.51]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D437A2D01C4 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2012 13:13:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by wgbed3 with SMTP id ed3so2174416wgb.20 for ; Sat, 02 Jun 2012 12:14:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer :thread-index:content-language; bh=mmI38cMgDKXXRlEm1HA40VFI0R/lT2wYDatTcD7tEpY=; b=jYkUhbwCr0kQ6ywKyjBBOUs+eW8lw5Bf7c6Sd6+Gg15/N77E26o2ZTV2HEaSfVr/F6 L1xTg/OqA7p0TeF479WqCWqGrDoUWyKl2FAVty/Laf4ms2B2gOTENa5fuo7YABYS0pZB 3EbXBIRsmdaJy+/OJU7pdTU0PoH+y60S68qMyhEMtVbgKsMtgNASd3IIw3Hn5IaKeN/b LfQqofIcTlCmZOHUeEwfNToqiXLcCbIs6xbbt+BgFi/mzmFf8h3Kv6L7xhLcKTHzvLf7 QBjNU43zp+8LA4KXpyWWiTgnx6NZ7QS6tUMvrG9OxV7c7+YB5yfpErdQgvi5/Np75qw8 6eLQ== Received: by 10.216.217.135 with SMTP id i7mr5443171wep.218.1338664457298; Sat, 02 Jun 2012 12:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Home (ip-109-85-177-172.web.vodafone.de. [109.85.177.172]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id et10sm6888621wib.2.2012.06.02.12.14.15 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 02 Jun 2012 12:14:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "MadMarx" To: "'J.C. Hassall'" References: <7041997.1338401615997.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <002601cd3f3b$a1a4e0d0$e4eea270$@com> <8CF0D6CDF76227F-AE8-32AC@webmail-m167.sysops.aol.com> <20120531185341.BB3452D0330@autox.team.net> <67008F0C-CD27-4E84-A109-C89004B64573@bnj.com> <20120531201756.036962D036B@autox.team.net> <20120601014146.748D92D03F3@autox.team.net> <4FC82887.0@bradakis.com> <000401cd3fea$7fdc8cf0$7f95a6d0$@com> <95CFFEAB-6654-4F70-80D1-BCEC56C80A29@virgin.net> <003001cd40e2$6305e650$2911b2f0$@com> <25DFDA0C-A4EB-4D14-9EEE-19396B0AD529@gmail.com> <000601cd40ea$3ac11630$b0434290$@com> <4FCA5FC4.7090604@blacksburg.net> In-Reply-To: <4FCA5FC4.7090604@blacksburg.net> Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 21:14:19 +0200 Message-ID: <001701cd40f3$ea9200c0$bfb60240$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac1A8DF5dMbj/YkGRY6sRDrOQrXJCwAA3Rmw Content-Language: de Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] LSD X-BeenThere: fot@autox.team.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Private List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sender: fot-bounces@autox.team.net I tried to follow this design but I connected the rod with the spring mount which gives an angle. The angle has the advantage of an anti dive but it seems to stiffen up the suspension and acting like a sway bar. Too unpredictable. Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: J.C. Hassall [mailto:jhassall@blacksburg.net] Gesendet: Samstag, 2. Juni 2012 20:48 An: MadMarx Cc: fot@autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] LSD On 6/2/2012 2:04 PM, MadMarx wrote: > I used an idea from a engineering book but I suppose that the angle of the > rod is too large. > I drove into a McDonald parking when the left rod snapped. > With one working rod the on-off-throttle steer was back again...greatly more > than it was but the car felt much better. > So I'm going back to the stock situation and remove the rods. > > Cheers > Chris > And thank you all for input. Learned a lot. > > > Chris, as I recall from my old DP car with a Detroit Locker differential; the car would squat to one side or the other under acceleration/deceleration; after I installed a set of torque rods the problem went away. It is important to have the axis of the rod parallel to the frame when the car is at half suspension travel. That should minimize surprises as the suspension hits the limits, as Duncan said below. By the way, it appeared from your video that the rods were welded to the top of the axle. Mine were mounted to a plate under the spring pad; the front of the rods mounted to a bracket I welded to the frame. I have some pictures of a Traction Master rod like I had installed which I can send if you want them. Gluck auf! jim > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Duncan Charlton [mailto:duncan.charlton54@gmail.com] > Gesendet: Samstag, 2. Juni 2012 19:38 > An: MadMarx > Betreff: Re: [Fot] LSD > > Chris, > > Does the rod's arc of movement exactly match that of the axle? That is, > does the front mount of the reaction rod use the same axis of rotation as > the front eye of the spring? If not, it's trying to twist the axle relative > to what the spring is doing, creating resistance to movement, adding roll > stiffness. > > Another approach might be to clamp together the front leaves of the spring > but leave the rears alone. One other solution I've seen (on a Sunbeam > Tiger) was to wrap the front end of the second leaf around the spring eye > bushing (inside the main leaf eye, and using a smaller-diameter bushing), > effectively doubling the stiffness of the front half of the spring. > > Duncan > (Texas) > > On Jun 2, 2012, at 12:08 PM, MadMarx wrote: > > >> Hi Guys, >> >> I installed rods to the axle. >> >> http://youtu.be/QPCCN96x8_U >> >> >> The leaf spring is now calmated but the car does oversteer badly. >> Seems to stiffen up the suspension now. >> I'm not sure if I should maintain that idea. >> >> Cheers >> Chris > -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go _______________________________________________ fot@autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mharc@autox.team.net From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jun 2 13:20:23 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mharc@autox.team.net Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E5092D0284 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2012 13:20:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Original-To: fot@autox.team.net Delivered-To: fot@autox.team.net Received: from mail-we0-f169.google.com (mail-we0-f169.google.com [74.125.82.169]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 045392D01C4 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2012 13:14:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by wefh52 with SMTP id h52so2744797wef.14 for ; Sat, 02 Jun 2012 12:15:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer :thread-index:content-language; bh=Bk7g18pSLJ1QkuWZl1aV4qjfek5/4lQf1odQM4CIEwg=; b=Nm2sZkyrBRJgwGwshweaCVVPrNzlaGQlOiiznNzg672sEAy3sU7QoJK396J6+12G0F quQvKQx4a1nf2gRAnAuXMB9AlsT28QvrnBtQG5CGn75tmirbAjm9pSu2JFfzGG+vK0H1 5ijh4/w2kgHR39AvAharfnumOPmcpumeZDYxqYEPuU57Ke3ORwhlfLNclD+IwaKIAcAQ 5kYBJhGhXKAFe0c1j5DGFK1oOx9dGNnz4lmtbAVJyNpgQGTgOLFI1DDXuG9NnV9XGZkz 1dg692+9AhF1CGmbmV4Qo/A4Y7NCzmv/JFG82DOAmmE+bCa+jArYkoVsEC5AP2fx68Nz Bn4w== Received: by 10.216.198.65 with SMTP id u43mr6099096wen.170.1338664529596; Sat, 02 Jun 2012 12:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Home (ip-109-85-177-172.web.vodafone.de. [109.85.177.172]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r2sm10884382wif.7.2012.06.02.12.15.28 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 02 Jun 2012 12:15:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "MadMarx" To: "'J.C. Hassall'" References: <7041997.1338401615997.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <002601cd3f3b$a1a4e0d0$e4eea270$@com> <8CF0D6CDF76227F-AE8-32AC@webmail-m167.sysops.aol.com> <20120531185341.BB3452D0330@autox.team.net> <67008F0C-CD27-4E84-A109-C89004B64573@bnj.com> <20120531201756.036962D036B@autox.team.net> <20120601014146.748D92D03F3@autox.team.net> <4FC82887.0@bradakis.com> <000401cd3fea$7fdc8cf0$7f95a6d0$@com> <95CFFEAB-6654-4F70-80D1-BCEC56C80A29@virgin.net> <003001cd40e2$6305e650$2911b2f0$@com> <25DFDA0C-A4EB-4D14-9EEE-19396B0AD529@gmail.com> <000601cd40ea$3ac11630$b0434290$@com> <4FCA5FC4.7090604@blacksburg.net> Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 21:15:31 +0200 Message-ID: <001801cd40f4$15e61310$41b23930$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac1A8DF5dMbj/YkGRY6sRDrOQrXJCwAA3RmwAAAStDA= Content-Language: de Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] LSD X-BeenThere: fot@autox.team.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Private List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sender: fot-bounces@autox.team.net I tried to follow this design but I connected the rod with the spring mount which gives an angle. The angle has the advantage of an anti dive but it seems to stiffen up the suspension and acting like a sway bar. Too unpredictable. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-KSmOrPC6I2s/T8plfWxpLFI/AAAAAAAABXs/VDma4 UruAsA/s761/CCI02062012_0000.jpg Cheers Chris -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: J.C. Hassall [mailto:jhassall@blacksburg.net] Gesendet: Samstag, 2. Juni 2012 20:48 An: MadMarx Cc: fot@autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] LSD On 6/2/2012 2:04 PM, MadMarx wrote: > I used an idea from a engineering book but I suppose that the angle of the > rod is too large. > I drove into a McDonald parking when the left rod snapped. > With one working rod the on-off-throttle steer was back again...greatly more > than it was but the car felt much better. > So I'm going back to the stock situation and remove the rods. > > Cheers > Chris > And thank you all for input. Learned a lot. > > > Chris, as I recall from my old DP car with a Detroit Locker differential; the car would squat to one side or the other under acceleration/deceleration; after I installed a set of torque rods the problem went away. It is important to have the axis of the rod parallel to the frame when the car is at half suspension travel. That should minimize surprises as the suspension hits the limits, as Duncan said below. By the way, it appeared from your video that the rods were welded to the top of the axle. Mine were mounted to a plate under the spring pad; the front of the rods mounted to a bracket I welded to the frame. I have some pictures of a Traction Master rod like I had installed which I can send if you want them. Gluck auf! jim > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Duncan Charlton [mailto:duncan.charlton54@gmail.com] > Gesendet: Samstag, 2. Juni 2012 19:38 > An: MadMarx > Betreff: Re: [Fot] LSD > > Chris, > > Does the rod's arc of movement exactly match that of the axle? That is, > does the front mount of the reaction rod use the same axis of rotation as > the front eye of the spring? If not, it's trying to twist the axle relative > to what the spring is doing, creating resistance to movement, adding roll > stiffness. > > Another approach might be to clamp together the front leaves of the spring > but leave the rears alone. One other solution I've seen (on a Sunbeam > Tiger) was to wrap the front end of the second leaf around the spring eye > bushing (inside the main leaf eye, and using a smaller-diameter bushing), > effectively doubling the stiffness of the front half of the spring. > > Duncan > (Texas) > > On Jun 2, 2012, at 12:08 PM, MadMarx wrote: > > >> Hi Guys, >> >> I installed rods to the axle. >> >> http://youtu.be/QPCCN96x8_U >> >> >> The leaf spring is now calmated but the car does oversteer badly. >> Seems to stiffen up the suspension now. >> I'm not sure if I should maintain that idea. >> >> Cheers >> Chris > -- Jim Hassall Blacksburg VA '63 TR4 in autox preparation 99% finished, 90% to go _______________________________________________ fot@autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mharc@autox.team.net From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jun 2 13:35:46 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mharc@autox.team.net Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D3C52D029F for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2012 13:35:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Original-To: fot@autox.team.net Delivered-To: fot@autox.team.net Received: from mail201c2.megamailservers.com (mail201c2.megamailservers.com [69.49.111.102]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6418D2D0210 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2012 13:34:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authenticated-User: jhhasty.gdhs.com Received: from [10.246.120.135] (29.sub-174-252-180.myvzw.com [174.252.180.29]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail201c2.megamailservers.com (8.13.6/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q52JYjtQ008311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 2 Jun 2012 15:34:52 -0400 References: <7041997.1338401615997.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <002601cd3f3b$a1a4e0d0$e4eea270$@com> <8CF0D6CDF76227F-AE8-32AC@webmail-m167.sysops.aol.com> <20120531185341.BB3452D0330@autox.team.net> <67008F0C-CD27-4E84-A109-C89004B64573@bnj.com> <20120531201756.036962D036B@autox.team.net> <20120601014146.748D92D03F3@autox.team.net> <4FC82887.0@bradakis.com> <000401cd3fea$7fdc8cf0$7f95a6d0$@com> <95CFFEAB-6654-4F70-80D1-BCEC56C80A29@virgin.net> <003001cd40e2$6305e650$2911b2f0$@com> <25DFDA0C-A4EB-4D14-9EEE-19396B0AD529@gmail.com> <000601cd40ea$3ac11630$b0434290$@com> <4FCA5FC4.7090604@blacksburg.net> <001801cd40f4$15e61310$41b23930$@com> In-Reply-To: <001801cd40f4$15e61310$41b23930$@com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9B206) From: John Hasty Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 15:34:40 -0400 To: MadMarx X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=1.1 cv=7tBfn1u/1qsiCBwE0Dg/XNHRPrXRqCh0S8k+6vWWeYk= c=1 sm=1 a=4XwCEAaBuO8A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=bYzBj2lyXkz8QC130rX7IA==:17 a=mK_AVkanAAAA:8 a=eypaTzzcAAAA:8 a=qH0YNQDRAAAA:8 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=jJrOw3FHAAAA:8 a=JcvzPq48AAAA:8 a=mkkZP590AAAA:8 a=MbIwTvKSvlmjwIm1hogA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=J0aUVQLP0FIA:10 a=m3MdUl94G8cA:10 a=9xyTavCNlvEA:10 a=erhHHfXf-WMA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=LuNFSA0Xe1kA:10 a=bYzBj2lyXkz8QC130rX7IA==:117 X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A020205.4FCA6AE4.0039, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 Cc: "fot@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Fot] LSD X-BeenThere: fot@autox.team.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Private List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sender: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Hey Chris......Those things are called Traction Bars here in NASCAR country & they are fully adjustable in a 5 second pit stop. Try a few of their web sites ...... Sent from my iPhone On Jun 2, 2012, at 3:15 PM, "MadMarx" wrote: > I tried to follow this design but I connected the rod with the spring mount > which gives an angle. > The angle has the advantage of an anti dive but it seems to stiffen up the > suspension and acting like a sway bar. > Too unpredictable. > https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-KSmOrPC6I2s/T8plfWxpLFI/AAAAAAAABXs/VDma4 > UruAsA/s761/CCI02062012_0000.jpg > > > > Cheers > Chris > > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: J.C. Hassall [mailto:jhassall@blacksburg.net] > Gesendet: Samstag, 2. Juni 2012 20:48 > An: MadMarx > Cc: fot@autox.team.net > Betreff: Re: [Fot] LSD > > On 6/2/2012 2:04 PM, MadMarx wrote: >> I used an idea from a engineering book but I suppose that the angle of the >> rod is too large. >> I drove into a McDonald parking when the left rod snapped. >> With one working rod the on-off-throttle steer was back again...greatly > more >> than it was but the car felt much better. >> So I'm going back to the stock situation and remove the rods. >> >> Cheers >> Chris >> And thank you all for input. Learned a lot. >> >> >> > Chris, as I recall from my old DP car with a Detroit Locker > differential; the car would squat to one side or the other under > acceleration/deceleration; after I installed a set of torque rods the > problem went away. It is important to have the axis of the rod parallel > to the frame when the car is at half suspension travel. That should > minimize surprises as the suspension hits the limits, as Duncan said > below. By the way, it appeared from your video that the rods were > welded to the top of the axle. Mine were mounted to a plate under the > spring pad; the front of the rods mounted to a bracket I welded to the > frame. > > I have some pictures of a Traction Master rod like I had installed which > I can send if you want them. > > Gluck auf! > > jim >> -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: Duncan Charlton [mailto:duncan.charlton54@gmail.com] >> Gesendet: Samstag, 2. Juni 2012 19:38 >> An: MadMarx >> Betreff: Re: [Fot] LSD >> >> Chris, >> >> Does the rod's arc of movement exactly match that of the axle? That is, >> does the front mount of the reaction rod use the same axis of rotation as >> the front eye of the spring? If not, it's trying to twist the axle > relative >> to what the spring is doing, creating resistance to movement, adding roll >> stiffness. >> >> Another approach might be to clamp together the front leaves of the spring >> but leave the rears alone. One other solution I've seen (on a Sunbeam >> Tiger) was to wrap the front end of the second leaf around the spring eye >> bushing (inside the main leaf eye, and using a smaller-diameter bushing), >> effectively doubling the stiffness of the front half of the spring. >> >> Duncan >> (Texas) >> >> On Jun 2, 2012, at 12:08 PM, MadMarx wrote: >> >> >>> Hi Guys, >>> >>> I installed rods to the axle. >>> >>> http://youtu.be/QPCCN96x8_U >>> >>> >>> The leaf spring is now calmated but the car does oversteer badly. >>> Seems to stiffen up the suspension now. >>> I'm not sure if I should maintain that idea. >>> >>> Cheers >>> Chris >> > > > -- > Jim Hassall > Blacksburg VA > '63 TR4 in autox preparation > 99% finished, 90% to go > _______________________________________________ > fot@autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/jhhasty@gdhs.com _______________________________________________ fot@autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mharc@autox.team.net From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jun 2 13:51:29 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mharc@autox.team.net Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02E192D019A for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2012 13:51:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Original-To: fot@autox.team.net Delivered-To: fot@autox.team.net Received: from qmta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.48]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDE4D2D0211 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2012 13:49:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from omta15.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.87]) by qmta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id HXDn1j0021swQuc55XqNhi; Sat, 02 Jun 2012 19:50:22 +0000 Received: from ComputerPC ([71.60.181.57]) by omta15.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id HXqM1j00V1EiJYf3bXqMfh; Sat, 02 Jun 2012 19:50:22 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Stutzmans" To: "J.C. Hassall" , "MadMarx" References: <7041997.1338401615997.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net><002601cd3f3b$a1a4e0d0$e4eea270$@com><8CF0D6CDF76227F-AE8-32AC@webmail-m167.sysops.aol.com><20120531185341.BB3452D0330@autox.team.net><67008F0C-CD27-4E84-A109-C89004B64573@bnj.com><20120531201756.036962D036B@autox.team.net><20120601014146.748D92D03F3@autox.team.net> <4FC82887.0@bradakis.com><000401cd3fea$7fdc8cf0$7f95a6d0$@com><95CFFEAB-6654-4F70-80D1-BCEC56C80A29@virgin.net><003001cd40e2$6305e650$2911b2f0$@com><25DFDA0C-A4EB-4D14-9EEE-19396B0AD529@gmail.com><000601cd40ea$3ac11630$b0434290$@com> <4FCA5FC4.7090604@blacksburg.net> In-Reply-To: <4FCA5FC4.7090604@blacksburg.net> Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 15:50:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18416 Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] LSD X-BeenThere: fot@autox.team.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Private List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Errors-To: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sender: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Years ago I modified the rear springs of my TR4 as outlined by Carroll Smith in TUNE TO WIN page 157. It really works well. I removed the track rods that were problematic. I turned the front half of the springs into trailing arms by tightly clamping the leaves together which located the axle. The back half of the spring does the springing. First, however, I installed the late TR4 springs that are longer behind the axle. Works well! Bruce . ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.C. Hassall" To: "MadMarx" Cc: Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2012 2:47 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] LSD > On 6/2/2012 2:04 PM, MadMarx wrote: >> I used an idea from a engineering book but I suppose that the angle of >> the >> rod is too large. >> I drove into a McDonald parking when the left rod snapped. >> With one working rod the on-off-throttle steer was back again...greatly >> more >> than it was but the car felt much better. >> So I'm going back to the stock situation and remove the rods. >> >> Cheers >> Chris >> And thank you all for input. Learned a lot. >> >> >> > Chris, as I recall from my old DP car with a Detroit Locker differential; > the car would squat to one side or the other under > acceleration/deceleration; after I installed a set of torque rods the > problem went away. It is important to have the axis of the rod parallel > to the frame when the car is at half suspension travel. That should > minimize surprises as the suspension hits the limits, as Duncan said > below. By the way, it appeared from your video that the rods were welded > to the top of the axle. Mine were mounted to a plate under the spring > pad; the front of the rods mounted to a bracket I welded to the frame. > > I have some pictures of a Traction Master rod like I had installed which I > can send if you want them. > > Gluck auf! > > jim >> -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: Duncan Charlton [mailto:duncan.charlton54@gmail.com] >> Gesendet: Samstag, 2. Juni 2012 19:38 >> An: MadMarx >> Betreff: Re: [Fot] LSD >> >> Chris, >> >> Does the rod's arc of movement exactly match that of the axle? That is, >> does the front mount of the reaction rod use the same axis of rotation as >> the front eye of the spring? If not, it's trying to twist the axle >> relative >> to what the spring is doing, creating resistance to movement, adding roll >> stiffness. >> >> Another approach might be to clamp together the front leaves of the >> spring >> but leave the rears alone. One other solution I've seen (on a Sunbeam >> Tiger) was to wrap the front end of the second leaf around the spring eye >> bushing (inside the main leaf eye, and using a smaller-diameter bushing), >> effectively doubling the stiffness of the front half of the spring. >> >> Duncan >> (Texas) >> >> On Jun 2, 2012, at 12:08 PM, MadMarx wrote: >> >> >>> Hi Guys, >>> >>> I installed rods to the axle. >>> >>> http://youtu.be/QPCCN96x8_U >>> >>> >>> The leaf spring is now calmated but the car does oversteer badly. >>> Seems to stiffen up the suspension now. >>> I'm not sure if I should maintain that idea. >>> >>> Cheers >>> Chris >> > > > -- > Jim Hassall > Blacksburg VA > '63 TR4 in autox preparation > 99% finished, 90% to go > _______________________________________________ > fot@autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/stutzmans@comcast.net _______________________________________________ fot@autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mharc@autox.team.net From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jun 2 14:10:36 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mharc@autox.team.net Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C42182D0211 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2012 14:10:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Original-To: fot@autox.team.net Delivered-To: fot@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wg0-f51.google.com (mail-wg0-f51.google.com [74.125.82.51]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52D8A2D0211 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2012 14:10:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by wgbed3 with SMTP id ed3so2192869wgb.20 for ; Sat, 02 Jun 2012 13:11:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer :thread-index:content-language; bh=DaDmcBdX6106PYVphW2cXIUTw3uoUI2EpIAZh+Vt7KI=; b=gvuPohshKlbpgfhkAxnIU+hLw94MA7f9ShBj/nueGYiD/d+U9eUVGMITB8bYpisTEn IJczWEyz3dLITjrjyy6wP12D5eMiA2hq4qkL8MkJBkTFiVCHhxMd1OV270DKEPoV/cJD BUT218GGcUl7A7zwuheJHBCoIqbOMXgglZre8t4brKGT9IyzMNmvHdA6f/zgVntYRi0M NvBcTaHVggOfq08xj9fW1GkzPByr4ErFnNA/fW7mqraeDlQcIIRZEZ/teQA0bsPb3+Rv Dv0H5BD/uE3Xg6krpxgkhxHKu8wPcU4shTnO6RIYNYZBWqfrXxVOUZa3P883XijkJTgs pPbA== Received: by 10.216.145.219 with SMTP id p69mr5080222wej.37.1338667877385; Sat, 02 Jun 2012 13:11:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Home (ip-109-85-177-172.web.vodafone.de. [109.85.177.172]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ez4sm7250522wid.3.2012.06.02.13.11.15 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 02 Jun 2012 13:11:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "MadMarx" To: "'Stutzmans'" , "'J.C. Hassall'" References: <7041997.1338401615997.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net><002601cd3f3b$a1a4e0d0$e4eea270$@com><8CF0D6CDF76227F-AE8-32AC@webmail-m167.sysops.aol.com><20120531185341.BB3452D0330@autox.team.net><67008F0C-CD27-4E84-A109-C89004B64573@bnj.com><20120531201756.036962D036B@autox.team.net><20120601014146.748D92D03F3@autox.team.net> <4FC82887.0@bradakis.com><000401cd3fea$7fdc8cf0$7f95a6d0$@com><95CFFEAB-6654-4F70-80D1-BCEC56C80A29@virgin.net><003001cd40e2$6305e650$2911b2f0$@com><25DFDA0C-A4EB-4D14-9EEE-19396B0AD529@gmail.com><000601cd40ea$3ac11630$b0434290$@com> <4FCA5FC4.7090604@blacksburg.net> In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 22:11:17 +0200 Message-ID: <000001cd40fb$e1067c40$a31374c0$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac1A+PKcqVyGQVmSQZy8sEAy4Rse3QAAsJDA Content-Language: de Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] LSD X-BeenThere: fot@autox.team.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Private List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sender: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Just found an online version of that book. Shelby says that the sway bars start fighting each other on cornering.....I think that I felt in that car. -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Stutzmans [mailto:stutzmans@comcast.net] Gesendet: Samstag, 2. Juni 2012 21:50 An: J.C. Hassall; MadMarx Cc: fot@autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] LSD Years ago I modified the rear springs of my TR4 as outlined by Carroll Smith in TUNE TO WIN page 157. It really works well. I removed the track rods that were problematic. I turned the front half of the springs into trailing arms by tightly clamping the leaves together which located the axle. The back half of the spring does the springing. First, however, I installed the late TR4 springs that are longer behind the axle. Works well! Bruce . ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.C. Hassall" To: "MadMarx" Cc: Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2012 2:47 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] LSD > On 6/2/2012 2:04 PM, MadMarx wrote: >> I used an idea from a engineering book but I suppose that the angle of >> the >> rod is too large. >> I drove into a McDonald parking when the left rod snapped. >> With one working rod the on-off-throttle steer was back again...greatly >> more >> than it was but the car felt much better. >> So I'm going back to the stock situation and remove the rods. >> >> Cheers >> Chris >> And thank you all for input. Learned a lot. >> >> >> > Chris, as I recall from my old DP car with a Detroit Locker differential; > the car would squat to one side or the other under > acceleration/deceleration; after I installed a set of torque rods the > problem went away. It is important to have the axis of the rod parallel > to the frame when the car is at half suspension travel. That should > minimize surprises as the suspension hits the limits, as Duncan said > below. By the way, it appeared from your video that the rods were welded > to the top of the axle. Mine were mounted to a plate under the spring > pad; the front of the rods mounted to a bracket I welded to the frame. > > I have some pictures of a Traction Master rod like I had installed which I > can send if you want them. > > Gluck auf! > > jim >> -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: Duncan Charlton [mailto:duncan.charlton54@gmail.com] >> Gesendet: Samstag, 2. Juni 2012 19:38 >> An: MadMarx >> Betreff: Re: [Fot] LSD >> >> Chris, >> >> Does the rod's arc of movement exactly match that of the axle? That is, >> does the front mount of the reaction rod use the same axis of rotation as >> the front eye of the spring? If not, it's trying to twist the axle >> relative >> to what the spring is doing, creating resistance to movement, adding roll >> stiffness. >> >> Another approach might be to clamp together the front leaves of the >> spring >> but leave the rears alone. One other solution I've seen (on a Sunbeam >> Tiger) was to wrap the front end of the second leaf around the spring eye >> bushing (inside the main leaf eye, and using a smaller-diameter bushing), >> effectively doubling the stiffness of the front half of the spring. >> >> Duncan >> (Texas) >> >> On Jun 2, 2012, at 12:08 PM, MadMarx wrote: >> >> >>> Hi Guys, >>> >>> I installed rods to the axle. >>> >>> http://youtu.be/QPCCN96x8_U >>> >>> >>> The leaf spring is now calmated but the car does oversteer badly. >>> Seems to stiffen up the suspension now. >>> I'm not sure if I should maintain that idea. >>> >>> Cheers >>> Chris >> > > > -- > Jim Hassall > Blacksburg VA > '63 TR4 in autox preparation > 99% finished, 90% to go > _______________________________________________ > fot@autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/stutzmans@comcast.net _______________________________________________ fot@autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mharc@autox.team.net From fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Jun 2 14:23:18 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mharc@autox.team.net Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A72C2D0292 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2012 14:23:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Original-To: fot@autox.team.net Delivered-To: fot@autox.team.net Received: from mail-wg0-f51.google.com (mail-wg0-f51.google.com [74.125.82.51]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 975BD2D0210 for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2012 14:20:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by wgbed3 with SMTP id ed3so2196210wgb.20 for ; Sat, 02 Jun 2012 13:21:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer :thread-index:content-language; bh=Eb9c4DLLEjVcLlB0GhOgYC4najroZ6uEv7R2EWZOxKY=; b=NBwqIVeU+bWDn88UUco2tlPXzeqGHBJCAt1rUAg/Dxie3VNAo6dRN9iNyRcuARwjQ7 2B8k32Av+WPL7nAUr/C0HZfa2rJ/Fdo8lkH1lZ/Ap33sbmUt+Rw8Pwl2Ab1B5JdiApqe 6FMR/9zf3djYp3nnb1qs/mpT2hnnoLpVyynVOT9lI5waKDzJv3p4OHLJq+c9EKXxe8Kq oBj5mJ9+emPwZ/9ag5DT9YKcwoQo7lfB1DtjDstZ/v5Ur2SvQ8SEiOOnA+pRYI/ixb0C 9HCpH2ywGMt4RzGfEu5KVD4onn+OY+P9xf8KB3fc6B0UlS8zLAlrZd3CcbX4pe4cesWw vLqQ== Received: by 10.216.198.162 with SMTP id v34mr6204589wen.75.1338668495866; Sat, 02 Jun 2012 13:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Home (ip-109-85-177-172.web.vodafone.de. [109.85.177.172]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z8sm11543860wiy.1.2012.06.02.13.21.34 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 02 Jun 2012 13:21:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "MadMarx" To: "'Stutzmans'" , "'J.C. Hassall'" References: <7041997.1338401615997.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net><002601cd3f3b$a1a4e0d0$e4eea270$@com><8CF0D6CDF76227F-AE8-32AC@webmail-m167.sysops.aol.com><20120531185341.BB3452D0330@autox.team.net><67008F0C-CD27-4E84-A109-C89004B64573@bnj.com><20120531201756.036962D036B@autox.team.net><20120601014146.748D92D03F3@autox.team.net> <4FC82887.0@bradakis.com><000401cd3fea$7fdc8cf0$7f95a6d0$@com><95CFFEAB-6654-4F70-80D1-BCEC56C80A29@virgin.net><003001cd40e2$6305e650$2911b2f0$@com><25DFDA0C-A4EB-4D14-9EEE-19396B0AD529@gmail.com><000601cd40ea$3ac11630$b0434290$@com> <4FCA5FC4.7090604@blacksburg.net> Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 22:21:36 +0200 Message-ID: <000401cd40fd$51e7ed30$f5b7c790$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac1A+PKcqVyGQVmSQZy8sEAy4Rse3QAAsJDAAABiYBA= Content-Language: de Cc: fot@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Fot] LSD X-BeenThere: fot@autox.team.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Private List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Sender: fot-bounces@autox.team.net Ah, sorry, meant traction bars not sway bars. -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: MadMarx [mailto:tr4racing@googlemail.com] Gesendet: Samstag, 2. Juni 2012 22:11 An: 'Stutzmans'; 'J.C. Hassall' Cc: 'fot@autox.team.net' Betreff: AW: [Fot] LSD Just found an online version of that book. Shelby says that the sway bars start fighting each other on cornering.....I think that I felt in that car. -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Stutzmans [mailto:stutzmans@comcast.net] Gesendet: Samstag, 2. Juni 2012 21:50 An: J.C. Hassall; MadMarx Cc: fot@autox.team.net Betreff: Re: [Fot] LSD Years ago I modified the rear springs of my TR4 as outlined by Carroll Smith in TUNE TO WIN page 157. It really works well. I removed the track rods that were problematic. I turned the front half of the springs into trailing arms by tightly clamping the leaves together which located the axle. The back half of the spring does the springing. First, however, I installed the late TR4 springs that are longer behind the axle. Works well! Bruce . ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.C. Hassall" To: "MadMarx" Cc: Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2012 2:47 PM Subject: Re: [Fot] LSD > On 6/2/2012 2:04 PM, MadMarx wrote: >> I used an idea from a engineering book but I suppose that the angle of >> the >> rod is too large. >> I drove into a McDonald parking when the left rod snapped. >> With one working rod the on-off-throttle steer was back again...greatly >> more >> than it was but the car felt much better. >> So I'm going back to the stock situation and remove the rods. >> >> Cheers >> Chris >> And thank you all for input. Learned a lot. >> >> >> > Chris, as I recall from my old DP car with a Detroit Locker differential; > the car would squat to one side or the other under > acceleration/deceleration; after I installed a set of torque rods the > problem went away. It is important to have the axis of the rod parallel > to the frame when the car is at half suspension travel. That should > minimize surprises as the suspension hits the limits, as Duncan said > below. By the way, it appeared from your video that the rods were welded > to the top of the axle. Mine were mounted to a plate under the spring > pad; the front of the rods mounted to a bracket I welded to the frame. > > I have some pictures of a Traction Master rod like I had installed which I > can send if you want them. > > Gluck auf! > > jim >> -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: Duncan Charlton [mailto:duncan.charlton54@gmail.com] >> Gesendet: Samstag, 2. Juni 2012 19:38 >> An: MadMarx >> Betreff: Re: [Fot] LSD >> >> Chris, >> >> Does the rod's arc of movement exactly match that of the axle? That is, >> does the front mount of the reaction rod use the same axis of rotation as >> the front eye of the spring? If not, it's trying to twist the axle >> relative >> to what the spring is doing, creating resistance to movement, adding roll >> stiffness. >> >> Another approach might be to clamp together the front leaves of the >> spring >> but leave the rears alone. One other solution I've seen (on a Sunbeam >> Tiger) was to wrap the front end of the second leaf around the spring eye >> bushing (inside the main leaf eye, and using a smaller-diameter bushing), >> effectively doubling the stiffness of the front half of the spring. >> >> Duncan >> (Texas) >> >> On Jun 2, 2012, at 12:08 PM, MadMarx wrote: >> >> >>> Hi Guys, >>> >>> I installed rods to the axle. >>> >>> http://youtu.be/QPCCN96x8_U >>> >>> >>> The leaf spring is now calmated but the car does oversteer badly. >>> Seems to stiffen up the suspension now. >>> I'm not sure if I should maintain that idea. >>> >>> Cheers >>> Chris >> > > > -- > Jim Hassall > Blacksburg VA > '63 TR4 in autox preparation > 99% finished, 90% to go > _______________________________________________ > fot@autox.team.net > > http://www.fot-racing.com > > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/stutzmans@comcast.net _______________________________________________ fot@autox.team.net http://www.fot-racing.com Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/mharc@autox.team.net