Subject: [Healeys] OD still not working!

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2022 11:17:36 +0100

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This saga started months ago and you may remember the case and the various
suggestions made at the time. I've been away and thus unable to get back to
the problem..

The background was that the thing would go into OD but not come out. And,
after many vicissitudes.removing box and OD in order to drive it up north
3(!) times, it is still playing up.

I shall try to give all the details and background but that will entail my
being as verbose as usual.

1.	It is in a MKII BT7 centre shift.
2.	It has, yesterday, new 30 wt non-detergent. Plenty of it. Clean.
3.	Its electrics pass muster though I wish I could detect a fault there
so that I could fix it.. If the ignition is on and the engine is off, when I
put the stick in 4th and engage OD I get a nice click and the little lever
moves. When I move the lever across to 1st and 2nd, another click and slight
movement on the little lever. When I leave it in 4th but switch the OD off,
it stays engaged until I depress the accelerator a little and then it drops
out of OD. To my mind at least, this indicates that the electrics are
working. IS THAT PRESUMPTION CORRECT? I tried it with a spare, rebuilt,
relay but no dice.
4.	There is nothing in the little hole and the ball seats nicely. All
new parts in there.
5.	The lever is free to move when the ignition is off ie nothing in
there is slowing the lever's freedom to move as pulled by the solenoid.

I have a (new) gauge and it goes up to 500+ psi when in 3rd or 4th and stays
there until I engage the OD. Pressure drops momentarily then returns to
500+. All well and good. But it won't come out..

My feeling, going somewhat against received/informed advice, was that
"something was stuck inside and not releasing". This was borne out when,
with the back wheels off the ground, I was trying to find out what was going
wrong..the gauge was in and I was watching it. Into OD...the usual click
plus a different sort of noise/clunk and a distinct jerk. The gauge went off
the scale..needle all the way round and jammed on the reverse side of zero
where it remained; gauge destroyed. The gasket between the
solenoid/operating lever casing and the accumulator area ruptured and oil
started to come out. Fairly briskly. So that was a complete disaster.

I rang up ODSpares, for the 400th time, and Dave said that the accumulator -
brand new, fitted by them - must have jammed. He, very reasonably I thought,
said that if I brought the box and OD up again(!), he'd fit on a complete
new unit. So, I did and he did. I imagine that he fitted a casing with all
new bits where needed. He runs them on a rig for 8 hours before letting them
leave the shop..

Anyhow, I stuck the box etc back in - I'm getting quite good at that now -
and had high hopes. But, no good. The needle goes up to 500+ and stays there
until I move it in and out of OD by moving the stick left to right with the
ignition on and the engine off.

Logically, if logic applies to an OD, one might suppose EITHER that there is
a batch of dud accumulators out there OR that there is some external factor
that I've missed which has been lurking undetected all the while?!? BUT,
that would not have made the accumulator jam??

Is it possible that there is something extraneous that could cause the
electrics to play up only when the engine is running?

Or, do ODs need a few miles on them before they start working properly?
Clutching at straws here!!

One last thing, Dave agreed that there was still a pressure issue. He
suggested drilling out the little hole in the so-called "valve - operating"
(the rod under the ball bearing). That was to allow the pressure to bleed
off faster. He sent me a new rod in case that didn't work. Which it didn't!
The hole was just a tiny fraction less than 1mm and I drilled it out to
1.5mm. (Apparently, the factory used to drill them out for competition
vehicles.)

Anyhow, I'm stuck. As is the OD!. And I've gone completely beyond any
expertise I ever had with these damn devices. I thought I understood the
electrics and I thought I could diagnose most pressure related issues. But
I'm getting nowhere and it's been going on for months and months.....

Any ideas would be very welcome. Exceeding welcome.

Simon

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link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>This saga started months ago and you may remember the =
case and the various suggestions made at the time. I&#8217;ve been away =
and thus unable to get back to the problem&#8230;.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>The =
background was that the thing would go into OD but not come out. And, =
after many vicissitudes&#8230;removing box and OD in order to drive it =
up north 3(!) times, it is still playing up.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I shall try =
to give all the details and background but that will entail my being as =
verbose as usual.<o:p></o:p></p><ol style=3D'margin-top:0cm' start=3D1 =
type=3D1><li class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>It is in a MKII BT7 =
centre shift.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>It has, yesterday, new =
30 wt non-detergent. Plenty of it. Clean.<o:p></o:p></li><li =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'>Its electrics pass muster though I wish I could detect a fault =
there so that I could fix it&#8230;. If the ignition is <i>on </i>and =
the engine is <i>off</i>, when I put the stick in 4<sup>th</sup> and =
engage OD I get a nice click and the little lever moves. When I move the =
lever across to 1<sup>st</sup> and 2<sup>nd</sup>, another click and =
slight movement on the little lever. When I leave it in 4<sup>th</sup> =
but switch the OD <i>off, </i>it stays engaged until I depress the =
accelerator a little and then it drops out of OD. To my mind at least, =
this indicates that the electrics are working. IS THAT PRESUMPTION =
CORRECT? I tried it with a spare, rebuilt, relay but no =
dice.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>There is nothing in =
the little hole and the ball seats nicely. All new parts in =
there.<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>The lever is free to =
move when the ignition is off ie nothing in there is slowing the =
lever&#8217;s freedom to move as pulled by the =
solenoid.<o:p></o:p></li></ol><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I have a =
(new) gauge and it goes up to 500+ psi when in 3<sup>rd</sup> or =
4<sup>th</sup> and stays there until I engage the OD. Pressure drops =
momentarily then returns to 500+. All well and good. But it won&#8217;t =
come out&#8230;.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>My feeling, =
going somewhat against received/informed advice, was that =
&#8220;something was stuck inside and not releasing&#8221;. This was =
borne out when, with the back wheels off the ground, I was trying to =
find out what was going wrong&#8230;&#8230;the gauge was in and I was =
watching it. Into OD&#8230;&#8230;.the usual click plus a different sort =
of noise/clunk and a distinct jerk. The gauge went off the =
scale&#8230;.needle all the way round and jammed on the reverse side of =
zero where it remained; gauge destroyed. The gasket between the =
solenoid/operating lever casing and the accumulator area ruptured and =
oil started to come out. Fairly briskly. So that was a complete =
disaster.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I rang up ODSpares, for the 400<sup>th</sup> time, and =
Dave said that the accumulator &#8211; brand new, fitted by them - must =
have jammed. He, very reasonably I thought, said that if I brought the =
box and OD up <i>again(!)</i>, he&#8217;d fit on a complete new unit. =
So, I did and he did. I imagine that he fitted a casing with all new =
bits where needed. He runs them on a rig for 8 hours before letting them =
leave the shop&#8230;&#8230;<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Anyhow, I =
stuck the box etc back in &#8211; I&#8217;m getting quite good at that =
now &#8211; and had high hopes. But, no good. The needle goes up to 500+ =
and stays there until I move it in and out of OD by moving the stick =
left to right with the ignition on and the engine off.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Logically, =
if logic applies to an OD, one might suppose EITHER that there is a =
batch of dud accumulators out there OR that there is some external =
factor that I&#8217;ve missed which has been lurking undetected all the =
while?!? BUT, that would not have made the accumulator =
jam??<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Is it possible that there is something extraneous that =
could cause the electrics to play up only when the engine is =
running?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Or, do ODs need a few miles =
on them before they start working properly? Clutching at straws =
here!!<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>One last thing, Dave agreed that there was still a =
pressure issue. He suggested drilling out the little hole in the =
so-called &#8220;valve &#8211; operating&#8221; (the rod under the ball =
bearing). That was to allow the pressure to bleed off faster. He sent me =
a new rod in case that didn&#8217;t work. Which it didn&#8217;t! The =
hole was just a tiny fraction less than 1mm and I drilled it out to =
1.5mm. (Apparently, the factory used to drill them out for competition =
vehicles&#8230;)<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Anyhow, =
I&#8217;m stuck. As is the OD!. And I&#8217;ve gone completely beyond =
any expertise I ever had with these damn devices. I thought I understood =
the electrics and I thought I could diagnose most pressure related =
issues. But I&#8217;m getting nowhere and it&#8217;s been going on for =
months and months&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Any ideas =
would be very welcome. Exceeding welcome.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Simon<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>
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From: Bob Spidell <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2022 06:32:54 -0700

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Disclaimer: I'm not an O/D expert, having rebuilt exactly one with 
reasonable success, but I can throw guesses around.

I think /something/ with the operating valve and its lifting rod 
(bent?), but there's couple theoretical causes:

- Too much wear on the cone clutch, causing it to stick in the brake 
ring, but the guys at ODSpares would surely have noticed and 
replaced/relined the clutch, no?

- Something wrong with the operating pistons (one or both), not allowing 
them to recede in their bores when pressure is relieved (O-ring or steel 
rings?)

I don't know enough about the intricacies of the internal passageways, 
but I do know the accumulator regulates pressure pretty simply: when the 
spring is compressed far enough a drain hole is uncovered (not unlike 
how engine oil pressure is limited). If that relief hole was somehow 
blocked pressure would increase until something gave (like your gauge).

An owner had a similar problem, reported on another forum. Someone 
suggested the unidirectional clutch getting stuck, but I can't wrap my 
head around that one (I think that would cause issues on overrun, 
possibly damaging the O/D).

So, the unit works fine on the test rig, but locks up first time you 
engage it and stays there? May be a clue in there somewhere but, so far, 
I'm coming up empty.

BTW, did you use the newer accumulator type, with an 0-ring instead of 
steel rings?

On 6/18/2022 3:17 AM, [email-masked] wrote:
>
> This saga started months ago and you may remember the case and the 
> various suggestions made at the time. I’ve been away and thus unable 
> to get back to the problem….
>
> The background was that the thing would go into OD but not come out. 
> And, after many vicissitudes…removing box and OD in order to drive it 
> up north 3(!) times, it is still playing up.
>
> I shall try to give all the details and background but that will 
> entail my being as verbose as usual.
>
>  3. Its electrics pass muster though I wish I could detect a fault
>     there so that I could fix it…. If the ignition is /on /and the
>     engine is /off/, when I put the stick in 4^th and engage OD I get
>     a nice click and the little lever moves. When I move the lever
>     across to 1^st and 2^nd , another click and slight movement on the
>     little lever. When I leave it in 4^th but switch the OD /off, /it
>     stays engaged until I depress the accelerator a little and then it
>     drops out of OD. To my mind at least, this indicates that the
>     electrics are working. IS THAT PRESUMPTION CORRECT? I tried it
>     with a spare, rebuilt, relay but no dice.
>     there is slowing the lever’s freedom to move as pulled by the
>     solenoid.
>
> I have a (new) gauge and it goes up to 500+ psi when in 3^rd or 4^th 
> and stays there until I engage the OD. Pressure drops momentarily then 
> returns to 500+. All well and good. But it won’t come out….
>
> “something was stuck inside and not releasing”. This was borne out 
> when, with the back wheels off the ground, I was trying to find out 
> what was going wrong……the gauge was in and I was watching it. Into 
> OD…….the usual click plus a different sort of noise/clunk and a 
> distinct jerk. The gauge went off the scale….needle all the way round 
> and jammed on the reverse side of zero where it remained; gauge 
> destroyed. The gasket between the solenoid/operating lever casing and 
> the accumulator area ruptured and oil started to come out. Fairly 
> briskly. So that was a complete disaster.
>
> I rang up ODSpares, for the 400^th time, and Dave said that the 
> accumulator – brand new, fitted by them - must have jammed. He, very 
> reasonably I thought, said that if I brought the box and OD up 
> /again(!)/, he’d fit on a complete new unit. So, I did and he did. I 
> imagine that he fitted a casing with all new bits where needed. He 
> runs them on a rig for 8 hours before letting them leave the shop……
>
> Anyhow, I stuck the box etc back in – I’m getting quite good at that 
> now – and had high hopes. But, no good. The needle goes up to 500+ and 
> stays there until I move it in and out of OD by moving the stick left 
> to right with the ignition on and the engine off.
>
> Logically, if logic applies to an OD, one might suppose EITHER that 
> there is a batch of dud accumulators out there OR that there is some 
> external factor that I’ve missed which has been lurking undetected all 
> the while?!? BUT, that would not have made the accumulator jam??
>
> Or, do ODs need a few miles on them before they start working 
> properly? Clutching at straws here!!
>
> suggested drilling out the little hole in the so-called “valve – 
> operating” (the rod under the ball bearing). That was to allow the 
> pressure to bleed off faster. He sent me a new rod in case that didn’t 
> work. Which it didn’t! The hole was just a tiny fraction less than 1mm 
> and I drilled it out to 1.5mm. (Apparently, the factory used to drill 
> them out for competition vehicles…)
>
> Anyhow, I’m stuck. As is the OD!. And I’ve gone completely beyond any 
> expertise I ever had with these damn devices. I thought I understood 
> the electrics and I thought I could diagnose most pressure related 
> issues. But I’m getting nowhere and it’s been going on for months and 
> months………….
>

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  <body>
    Disclaimer: I'm not an O/D expert, having rebuilt exactly one with
    reasonable success, but I can throw guesses around.<br>
    <br>
    I think <i>something</i> with the operating valve and its lifting
    rod (bent?), but there's couple theoretical causes:<br>
    <br>
    - Too much wear on the cone clutch, causing it to stick in the brake
    ring, but the guys at ODSpares would surely have noticed and
    replaced/relined the clutch, no?<br>
    <br>
    - Something wrong with the operating pistons (one or both), not
    allowing them to recede in their bores when pressure is relieved
    (O-ring or steel rings?)<br>
    <br>
    I don't know enough about the intricacies of the internal
    passageways, but I do know the accumulator regulates pressure pretty
    simply: when the spring is compressed far enough a drain hole is
    uncovered (not unlike how engine oil pressure is limited). If that
    relief hole was somehow blocked pressure would increase until
    something gave (like your gauge).<br>
    <br>
    An owner had a similar problem, reported on another forum. Someone
    suggested the unidirectional clutch getting stuck, but I can't wrap
    my head around that one (I think that would cause issues on overrun,
    possibly damaging the O/D). <br>
    <br>
    So, the unit works fine on the test rig, but locks up first time you
    engage it and stays there? May be a clue in there somewhere but, so
    far, I'm coming up empty.<br>
    <br>
    BTW, did you use the newer accumulator type, with an 0-ring instead
    of steel rings?<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/18/2022 3:17 AM,
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</a> wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:[email-masked]">
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal">This saga started months ago and you may
          remember the case and the various suggestions made at the
          time. I’ve been away and thus unable to get back to the
          problem….<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">The background was that the thing would go
          into OD but not come out. And, after many
          vicissitudes…removing box and OD in order to drive it up north
          3(!) times, it is still playing up.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">I shall try to give all the details and
          background but that will entail my being as verbose as usual.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <ol style="margin-top:0cm" type="1" start="1">
          <li class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">It is in a
            MKII BT7 centre shift.<o:p></o:p></li>
          <li class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">It has,
            yesterday, new 30 wt non-detergent. Plenty of it. Clean.<o:p></o:p></li>
          <li class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Its
            electrics pass muster though I wish I could detect a fault
            there so that I could fix it…. If the ignition is <i>on </i>and
            the engine is <i>off</i>, when I put the stick in 4<sup>th</sup>
            and engage OD I get a nice click and the little lever moves.
            When I move the lever across to 1<sup>st</sup> and 2<sup>nd</sup>,
            another click and slight movement on the little lever. When
            I leave it in 4<sup>th</sup> but switch the OD <i>off, </i>it
            stays engaged until I depress the accelerator a little and
            then it drops out of OD. To my mind at least, this indicates
            that the electrics are working. IS THAT PRESUMPTION CORRECT?
            I tried it with a spare, rebuilt, relay but no dice.<o:p></o:p></li>
          <li class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">There is
            nothing in the little hole and the ball seats nicely. All
            new parts in there.<o:p></o:p></li>
          <li class="MsoListParagraph"
            style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">The lever is
            free to move when the ignition is off ie nothing in there is
            slowing the lever’s freedom to move as pulled by the
            solenoid.<o:p></o:p></li>
        </ol>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">I have a (new) gauge and it goes up to 500+
          psi when in 3<sup>rd</sup> or 4<sup>th</sup> and stays there
          until I engage the OD. Pressure drops momentarily then returns
          to 500+. All well and good. But it won’t come out….<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">My feeling, going somewhat against
          received/informed advice, was that “something was stuck inside
          and not releasing”. This was borne out when, with the back
          wheels off the ground, I was trying to find out what was going
          wrong……the gauge was in and I was watching it. Into OD…….the
          usual click plus a different sort of noise/clunk and a
          distinct jerk. The gauge went off the scale….needle all the
          way round and jammed on the reverse side of zero where it
          remained; gauge destroyed. The gasket between the
          solenoid/operating lever casing and the accumulator area
          ruptured and oil started to come out. Fairly briskly. So that
          was a complete disaster.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">I rang up ODSpares, for the 400<sup>th</sup>
          time, and Dave said that the accumulator – brand new, fitted
          by them - must have jammed. He, very reasonably I thought,
          said that if I brought the box and OD up <i>again(!)</i>,
          he’d fit on a complete new unit. So, I did and he did. I
          imagine that he fitted a casing with all new bits where
          needed. He runs them on a rig for 8 hours before letting them
          leave the shop……<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Anyhow, I stuck the box etc back in – I’m
          getting quite good at that now – and had high hopes. But, no
          good. The needle goes up to 500+ and stays there until I move
          it in and out of OD by moving the stick left to right with the
          ignition on and the engine off.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Logically, if logic applies to an OD, one
          might suppose EITHER that there is a batch of dud accumulators
          out there OR that there is some external factor that I’ve
          missed which has been lurking undetected all the while?!? BUT,
          that would not have made the accumulator jam??<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Is it possible that there is something
          extraneous that could cause the electrics to play up only when
          the engine is running?<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Or, do ODs need a few miles on them before
          they start working properly? Clutching at straws here!!<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">One last thing, Dave agreed that there was
          still a pressure issue. He suggested drilling out the little
          hole in the so-called “valve – operating” (the rod under the
          ball bearing). That was to allow the pressure to bleed off
          faster. He sent me a new rod in case that didn’t work. Which
          it didn’t! The hole was just a tiny fraction less than 1mm and
          I drilled it out to 1.5mm. (Apparently, the factory used to
          drill them out for competition vehicles…)<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Anyhow, I’m stuck. As is the OD!. And I’ve
          gone completely beyond any expertise I ever had with these
          damn devices. I thought I understood the electrics and I
          thought I could diagnose most pressure related issues. But I’m
          getting nowhere and it’s been going on for months and
          months………….<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Any ideas would be very welcome. Exceeding
          welcome.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Simon<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
      </div>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
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[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2022 17:49:37 +0000 mYndXvMfzhIGhbXv6N2SD4XX4kWSH8VSQ/XIaH0FLiBBQjpZw/U3xfMmhv1G2H+vomahExeyJFZ3Ilx50Qz1I3Nw6VaS40HH1Fzt044CTR+zIeSCSfuZ8Yxm

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HI SIMON, HANK HERE, AND THAT'S ANOTHER TALE OF WOE. BOB MAKES SOME=0AGO=
OD POINTS AND MENTIONS THE ACCUMULATOR. YOU MENTIONED A "BAD BATCH"=0AOF=
 ACCUMULATORS. DEFINITELY, IF THE ACCUMULATOR DOES NOT RELEASE IT=0AWILL=
 CONTINUE TO "PUMP" (HOLD PRESSURE) HYDRAULIC OIL AS THE "PUMP" IS=0ATHE=
 LITTLE WHEEL IN CONTACT WITH THE MAINSHAFT CAM, CONSTANTLY GOING=0AUP A=
ND DOWN creating pressure. At the engineered max about 400-500PSI=0Asome=
thing has to release, or it continues to pump pressure beyond what=0Ais=
 needed to overcome the 8 springs resistance which push the clutch=0Aint=
o direct drive.=0AI'm a stickler for using original parts, if nothing is=
 wrong with=0Athem. (I'm using the steel piston rings, not O rings) Repl=
acement=0Aitems always scare me (are they an exact match?). I think you=
=0Aexperienced that issue when you replaced the transmission clutch=0Apl=
ate.=0AI do drill out the tiny hole with a 1MM bit to make room for dirt=
=0Awhich could be larger than that tiny hole. It does not hurt the=0Aope=
ration but, yes it can drain a little faster (about 1/2 sec.). If=0Athat=
 whole passage is clean, proper size ball and spring and rod not=0Abent,=
 it functions as a release valve when lowered (by lever action=0Afrom ar=
m).=0AThen the other drain is as Bob describes, when the accumulator mov=
es=0Aaway from the drilling in the bore. This drilling also depends on a=
n=0Aannular groove (passage in the mainshaft-be sure they are clear) to=
=0Acarry oil. These must also be squeaky clean. That huge spring inside=
=0Athe accumulator controls the release of massive hydraulic pressure. I=
t=0Ais important to use a test gauge of about 800PSI when testing the=0A=
system...just in case you are not releasing pressure.=0AThe "trouble sho=
oting guide" in the workshop manual only addresses=0Alack of pressure re=
lease to dirt, electrics or damaged parts. I'm=0Aafraid its yet another=
 trip back to OD Spares. While its out, look=0Acarefully at the tail of=
 your mainshaft and insure it has clear=0Apassages. A piece of SS wire w=
ill check openings. Dirt is the main=0Aculprit in ODs followed by wear,=
 if electrics are ok.=0A=0A=09-----------------------------------------F=
rom: "Bob Spidell" =0ATo: [email-masked]=0ACc: =0ASent: Saturday=
 June 18 2022 6:33:36AM=0ASubject: Re: [Healeys] OD still not working!=
=0A=0A Disclaimer: I'm not an O/D expert, having rebuilt exactly one wit=
h=0Areasonable success, but I can throw guesses around.=0A=0A I think _s=
omething_ with the operating valve and its lifting rod=0A(bent?), but th=
ere's couple theoretical causes:=0A=0A - Too much wear on the cone clutc=
h, causing it to stick in the brake=0Aring, but the guys at ODSpares wou=
ld surely have noticed and=0Areplaced/relined the clutch, no?=0A=0A - So=
mething wrong with the operating pistons (one or both), not=0Aallowing t=
hem to recede in their bores when pressure is relieved=0A(O-ring or stee=
l rings?)=0A=0A I don't know enough about the intricacies of the interna=
l=0Apassageways, but I do know the accumulator regulates pressure pretty=
=0Asimply: when the spring is compressed far enough a drain hole is=0Aun=
covered (not unlike how engine oil pressure is limited). If that=0Arelie=
f hole was somehow blocked pressure would increase until=0Asomething gav=
e (like your gauge).=0A=0A An owner had a similar problem, reported on a=
nother forum. Someone=0Asuggested the unidirectional clutch getting stuc=
k, but I can't wrap my=0Ahead around that one (I think that would cause=
 issues on overrun,=0Apossibly damaging the O/D).=0A=0A So, the unit wor=
ks fine on the test rig, but locks up first time you=0Aengage it and sta=
ys there? May be a clue in there somewhere but, so=0Afar, I'm coming up=
 empty.=0A=0A BTW, did you use the newer accumulator type, with an 0-rin=
g instead=0Aof steel rings?=0A=0AOn 6/18/2022 3:17 AM, simon.lachlan@ale=
xarevel.plus.com wrote:=0A=0A=09This saga started months ago and you may=
 remember the case and the=0Avarious suggestions made at the time. I=E2=
=80=99ve been away and thus unable=0Ato get back to the problem=E2=80=A6=
. =0A=0A=09The background was that the thing would go into OD but not co=
me out.=0AAnd, after many vicissitudes=E2=80=A6removing box and OD in or=
der to drive=0Ait up north 3(!) times, it is still playing up. =0A=0A=09=
I shall try to give all the details and background but that will=0Aentai=
l my being as verbose as usual. =0A=0A=09* It is in a MKII BT7 centre sh=
ift.=0A =09* It has, yesterday, new 30 wt non-detergent. Plenty of it. C=
lean.=0A =09* Its electrics pass muster though I wish I could detect a f=
ault=0Athere so that I could fix it=E2=80=A6. If the ignition is _on_ an=
d the=0Aengine is _off_, when I put the stick in 4th and engage OD I get=
 a=0Anice click and the little lever moves. When I move the lever across=
 to=0A1st and 2nd, another click and slight movement on the little lever=
.=0AWhen I leave it in 4th but switch the OD _off,_ it stays engaged unt=
il=0AI depress the accelerator a little and then it drops out of OD. To=
 my=0Amind at least, this indicates that the electrics are working. IS T=
HAT=0APRESUMPTION CORRECT? I tried it with a spare, rebuilt, relay but n=
o=0Adice.=0A =09* There is nothing in the little hole and the ball seats=
 nicely. All=0Anew parts in there.=0A =09* The lever is free to move whe=
n the ignition is off ie nothing in=0Athere is slowing the lever=E2=80=
=99s freedom to move as pulled by the=0Asolenoid.=0A=0A=09I have a (new)=
 gauge and it goes up to 500+ psi when in 3rd or 4th=0Aand stays there u=
ntil I engage the OD. Pressure drops momentarily then=0Areturns to 500+.=
 All well and good. But it won=E2=80=99t come out=E2=80=A6. =0A=0A=09My=
 feeling, going somewhat against received/informed advice, was that=0A=
=E2=80=9Csomething was stuck inside and not releasing=E2=80=9D. This was=
 borne out=0Awhen, with the back wheels off the ground, I was trying to=
 find out=0Awhat was going wrong=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6the gauge was in and I=
 was watching it. Into=0AOD=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.the usual click plus a dif=
ferent sort of noise/clunk and a=0Adistinct jerk. The gauge went off the=
 scale=E2=80=A6.needle all the way=0Around and jammed on the reverse sid=
e of zero where it remained; gauge=0Adestroyed. The gasket between the s=
olenoid/operating lever casing and=0Athe accumulator area ruptured and o=
il started to come out. Fairly=0Abriskly. So that was a complete disaste=
r. =0A=0A=09I rang up ODSpares, for the 400th time, and Dave said that t=
he=0Aaccumulator =E2=80=93 brand new, fitted by them - must have jammed.=
 He, very=0Areasonably I thought, said that if I brought the box and OD=
 up=0A_again(!)_, he=E2=80=99d fit on a complete new unit. So, I did and=
 he did. I=0Aimagine that he fitted a casing with all new bits where nee=
ded. He=0Aruns them on a rig for 8 hours before letting them leave the=
=0Ashop=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6 =0A=0A=09Anyhow, I stuck the box etc back in=
 =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99m getting quite good at=0Athat now =E2=80=93 and ha=
d high hopes. But, no good. The needle goes up to=0A500+ and stays there=
 until I move it in and out of OD by moving the=0Astick left to right wi=
th the ignition on and the engine off. =0A=0A=09Logically, if logic appl=
ies to an OD, one might suppose EITHER that=0Athere is a batch of dud ac=
cumulators out there OR that there is some=0Aexternal factor that I=E2=
=80=99ve missed which has been lurking undetected=0Aall the while?!? BUT=
, that would not have made the accumulator jam?? =0A=0A=09Is it possible=
 that there is something extraneous that could cause=0Athe electrics to=
 play up only when the engine is running? =0A=0A=09Or, do ODs need a few=
 miles on them before they start working=0Aproperly? Clutching at straws=
 here!! =0A=0A=09One last thing, Dave agreed that there was still a pres=
sure issue. He=0Asuggested drilling out the little hole in the so-called=
 =E2=80=9Cvalve =E2=80=93=0Aoperating=E2=80=9D (the rod under the ball b=
earing). That was to allow the=0Apressure to bleed off faster. He sent m=
e a new rod in case that=0Adidn=E2=80=99t work. Which it didn=E2=80=99t!=
 The hole was just a tiny fraction=0Aless than 1mm and I drilled it out=
 to 1.5mm. (Apparently, the factory=0Aused to drill them out for competi=
tion vehicles=E2=80=A6) =0A=0A=09Anyhow, I=E2=80=99m stuck. As is the OD=
!. And I=E2=80=99ve gone completely beyond=0Aany expertise I ever had wi=
th these damn devices. I thought I=0Aunderstood the electrics and I thou=
ght I could diagnose most pressure=0Arelated issues. But I=E2=80=99m get=
ting nowhere and it=E2=80=99s been going on for=0Amonths and months=E2=
=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6. =0A=0A=09Any ideas would be very welc=
ome. Exceeding welcome. =0A=0A=09Simon =0A=0A

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<html><body>Hi Simon, Hank here, and that's another tale of woe. Bob mak=
es some good points and mentions the accumulator. You mentioned a "bad b=
atch" of accumulators. Definitely, if the accumulator does not release i=
t will continue to "pump" (hold pressure) hydraulic oil as the "pump" is=
 the little wheel in contact with the mainshaft cam, <b>constantly going=
 up and down</b> creating pressure. At the engineered max about 400-500P=
SI something has to release, or it continues to pump pressure beyond wha=
t is needed to overcome the 8 springs resistance which push the clutch i=
nto direct drive.<div><br></div><div>I'm a stickler for using original p=
arts, if nothing is wrong with them. (I'm using the steel piston rings,=
 not O rings) Replacement items always scare me (are they an exact match=
?). I think you experienced that issue when you replaced the transmissio=
n clutch plate.</div><div><br></div><div>I do drill out the tiny hole wi=
th a 1MM bit to make room for dirt which could be larger than that tiny=
 hole. It does not hurt the operation but, yes it can drain a little fas=
ter (about 1/2 sec.). If that whole passage is clean, proper size ball a=
nd spring and rod not bent, it functions as a release valve when lowered=
 (by lever action from arm).</div><div><br></div><div>Then the other dra=
in is as Bob describes, when the accumulator moves away from the drillin=
g in the bore. This drilling also depends on an annular groove&nbsp; (pa=
ssage in the mainshaft-be sure they are clear) to carry oil. These must=
 also be squeaky clean. That huge spring inside the accumulator controls=
 the release of massive hydraulic pressure. It is important to use a tes=
t gauge of about 800PSI when testing the system...just in case you are n=
ot releasing pressure.</div><div><br></div><div>The "trouble shooting gu=
ide" in the workshop manual only addresses lack of pressure release to d=
irt, electrics or damaged parts. I'm afraid its yet another trip back to=
 OD Spares. While its out, look carefully at the tail of your mainshaft=
 and insure it has clear passages. A piece of SS wire will check opening=
s. Dirt is the main culprit in ODs followed by wear, if electrics are ok=
.</div><div><br><div class=3D"reply-new-signature"></div><p>------------=
-----------------------------</p>From: "Bob Spidell" <[email-masked]=
et><br>To: [email-masked]<br>Cc: <br>Sent: Saturday June 18 2022=
 6:33:36AM<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] OD still not working!<br><br>=0ADis=
claimer: I'm not an O/D expert, having rebuilt exactly one with=0Areason=
able success, but I can throw guesses around.<br><br>=0AI think <i>somet=
hing</i> with the operating valve and its lifting=0Arod (bent?), but the=
re's couple theoretical causes:<br><br>=0A- Too much wear on the cone cl=
utch, causing it to stick in the=0Abrake ring, but the guys at ODSpares=
 would surely have noticed and=0Areplaced/relined the clutch, no?<br><br=
>=0A- Something wrong with the operating pistons (one or both), not=0Aal=
lowing them to recede in their bores when pressure is relieved=0A(O-ring=
 or steel rings?)<br><br>=0AI don't know enough about the intricacies of=
 the internal=0Apassageways, but I do know the accumulator regulates pre=
ssure=0Apretty simply: when the spring is compressed far enough a drain=
=0Ahole is uncovered (not unlike how engine oil pressure is limited).=0A=
If that relief hole was somehow blocked pressure would increase=0Auntil=
 something gave (like your gauge).<br><br>=0AAn owner had a similar prob=
lem, reported on another forum. Someone=0Asuggested the unidirectional c=
lutch getting stuck, but I can't wrap=0Amy head around that one (I think=
 that would cause issues on=0Aoverrun, possibly damaging the O/D).<br><b=
r>=0ASo, the unit works fine on the test rig, but locks up first time=0A=
you engage it and stays there? May be a clue in there somewhere=0Abut, s=
o far, I'm coming up empty.<br><br>=0ABTW, did you use the newer accumul=
ator type, with an 0-ring instead=0Aof steel rings?<br><br><br><br><div=
 class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 6/18/2022 3:17 AM, <a class=3D"moz-txt-lin=
k-abbreviated">[email-masked]</a>=0Awrote:<br></div>=
=0A<blockquote>=0A<div class=3D"WordSection1">=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
This saga started months ago and you may=0Aremember the case and the var=
ious suggestions made at the time.=0AI=E2=80=99ve been away and thus una=
ble to get back to the problem=E2=80=A6.</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&n=
bsp;</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The background was that the thing woul=
d go=0Ainto OD but not come out. And, after many vicissitudes=E2=80=A6re=
moving box=0Aand OD in order to drive it up north 3(!) times, it is stil=
l=0Aplaying up.</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>=0A<p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal">I shall try to give all the details and=0Abackground but that w=
ill entail my being as verbose as usual.</p>=0A<ol style=3D"margin-top:0=
cm;" type=3D"1" start=3D"1"><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"marg=
in-left:0cm;">It is in a MKII BT7=0Acentre shift.</li>=0A<li class=3D"Ms=
oListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;">It has, yesterday, new 30=0Aw=
t non-detergent. Plenty of it. Clean.</li>=0A<li class=3D"MsoListParagra=
ph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;">Its electrics pass muster=0Athough I wish=
 I could detect a fault there so that I could fix it=E2=80=A6.=0AIf the=
 ignition is <i>on</i> and the engine is <i>off</i>, when I=0Aput the st=
ick in 4<sup>th</sup> and engage OD I get a nice click=0Aand the little=
 lever moves. When I move the lever across to=0A1<sup>st</sup> and 2<sup=
>nd</sup>, another click and slight=0Amovement on the little lever. When=
 I leave it in 4<sup>th</sup> but=0Aswitch the OD <i>off,</i> it stays e=
ngaged until I depress the=0Aaccelerator a little and then it drops out=
 of OD. To my mind at=0Aleast, this indicates that the electrics are wor=
king. IS THAT=0APRESUMPTION CORRECT? I tried it with a spare, rebuilt, r=
elay but no=0Adice.</li>=0A<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margi=
n-left:0cm;">There is nothing in the=0Alittle hole and the ball seats ni=
cely. All new parts in there.</li>=0A<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" styl=
e=3D"margin-left:0cm;">The lever is free to move=0Awhen the ignition is=
 off ie nothing in there is slowing the lever=E2=80=99s=0Afreedom to mov=
e as pulled by the solenoid.</li>=0A</ol><p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</=
p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have a (new) gauge and it goes up to 500+=
=0Apsi when in 3<sup>rd</sup> or 4<sup>th</sup> and stays there until=0A=
I engage the OD. Pressure drops momentarily then returns to 500+.=0AAll=
 well and good. But it won=E2=80=99t come out=E2=80=A6.</p>=0A<p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">My feeling, going som=
ewhat against=0Areceived/informed advice, was that =E2=80=9Csomething wa=
s stuck inside and=0Anot releasing=E2=80=9D. This was borne out when, wi=
th the back wheels off=0Athe ground, I was trying to find out what was g=
oing wrong=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6the=0Agauge was in and I was watching it. In=
to OD=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.the usual click plus=0Aa different sort of noise=
/clunk and a distinct jerk. The gauge went=0Aoff the scale=E2=80=A6.need=
le all the way round and jammed on the reverse=0Aside of zero where it r=
emained; gauge destroyed. The gasket between=0Athe solenoid/operating le=
ver casing and the accumulator area=0Aruptured and oil started to come o=
ut. Fairly briskly. So that was a=0Acomplete disaster.</p>=0A<p class=3D=
"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I rang up ODSpares, for=
 the 400<sup>th</sup>=0Atime, and Dave said that the accumulator =E2=80=
=93 brand new, fitted by=0Athem - must have jammed. He, very reasonably=
 I thought, said that=0Aif I brought the box and OD up <i>again(!)</i>,=
 he=E2=80=99d fit on a=0Acomplete new unit. So, I did and he did. I imag=
ine that he fitted a=0Acasing with all new bits where needed. He runs th=
em on a rig for 8=0Ahours before letting them leave the shop=E2=80=A6=E2=
=80=A6</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
Anyhow, I stuck the box etc back in =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99m=0Agetting quit=
e good at that now =E2=80=93 and had high hopes. But, no good.=0AThe nee=
dle goes up to 500+ and stays there until I move it in and=0Aout of OD b=
y moving the stick left to right with the ignition on=0Aand the engine o=
ff.</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Log=
ically, if logic applies to an OD, one=0Amight suppose EITHER that there=
 is a batch of dud accumulators out=0Athere OR that there is some extern=
al factor that I=E2=80=99ve missed which=0Ahas been lurking undetected a=
ll the while?!? BUT, that would not=0Ahave made the accumulator jam??</p=
>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Is it pos=
sible that there is something=0Aextraneous that could cause the electric=
s to play up only when the=0Aengine is running?</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal">Or, do ODs need a few miles on them before=0Athey start working pro=
perly? Clutching at straws here!!</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p=
>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">One last thing, Dave agreed that there was=0A=
still a pressure issue. He suggested drilling out the little hole=0Ain t=
he so-called =E2=80=9Cvalve =E2=80=93 operating=E2=80=9D (the rod under=
 the ball=0Abearing). That was to allow the pressure to bleed off faster=
. He=0Asent me a new rod in case that didn=E2=80=99t work. Which it didn=
=E2=80=99t! The=0Ahole was just a tiny fraction less than 1mm and I dril=
led it out to=0A1.5mm. (Apparently, the factory used to drill them out f=
or=0Acompetition vehicles=E2=80=A6)</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<=
/p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Anyhow, I=E2=80=99m stuck. As is the OD!. A=
nd I=E2=80=99ve=0Agone completely beyond any expertise I ever had with t=
hese damn=0Adevices. I thought I understood the electrics and I thought=
 I could=0Adiagnose most pressure related issues. But I=E2=80=99m gettin=
g nowhere and=0Ait=E2=80=99s been going on for months and months=E2=80=
=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>=
=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Any ideas would be very welcome. Exceeding=0Aw=
elcome.</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
>Simon</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
&nbsp;</p>=0A</div>=0A<br></blockquote>=0A<br></[email-masked]></d=
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