Subject: Re: [Healeys] fuel pump

From: "Hank Leach" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2023 21:58:14 +0000 boundary="=_83537aa6643b1a9ead2139c65e7a50c2" vQEZr5b7/dEIzVIhPiXQ0K16qCaAj8kDskaUkbHjUu5kpJOprGje9S8KCUaM8f4iq24+K0c7I1piRRsOIY+gfmqWUcCRQUqeFBOOs3GBXDonNMqaY0xzSeH7 iW/eE5N4VPS3gaxDtEFNFgTyGMpabEDhri50ip5Yfk1t9B6DzByDPlLZHyIMrdLO

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Stevedores! Back in the day the Austin-Healey 100 body parts were=0A"upg=
raded" to use a steel bonnet and boot lid in place of the original=0Aalu=
minum style. This modification was directed at the behest of Donald=0AHe=
aley, himself, who upon bringing his cars to the US experienced=0Amajor=
 damage to them from stevedores walking over the cars to get from=0Aone=
 end of the hold to the other. Cars are stuffed together with as=0Alittl=
e as 3" between them.=0AI wrote an article in the J/F 2023 edition of th=
e Austin Healey=0AMagazine discussing the issue and just how badly these=
 cars were=0Atreated by the shipping companies trusted with their safe d=
elivery.=0AMany cars were damaged and required extensive body repairs at=
 the=0Areceiving port dealer. Some cars were so sadly treated that they=
 had=0Ato be scrapped.=0AAs Al notes-"the joys of travel" can be directl=
y related to those=0Aindividuals who are paid handsomely to deliver cars=
 across the seas in=0Aone piece, not necessarily in a good piece. Hank=
=0A=0A=09-----------------------------------------From: alfuller194@gmai=
l.com=0ATo: "Bob Spidell", "Michael Oritt"=0ACc: [email-masked]=
=0ASent: Sunday July 30 2023 2:33:19PM=0ASubject: Re: [Healeys] fuel pum=
p=0A=0A=09Good question on just what was the sequence of events that led=
 to the=0Aignition switches being left =E2=80=98on=E2=80=99.  =0A=0A=09O=
ne clue might be in something I neglected to mention in my prior=0Apost:=
 they also drained the fuel tanks. And by drained, I mean every=0Adrop o=
f fuel! At least one car leaked out of the fuel tank drain on=0Arefuelin=
g, because the drain plug had not been secured after the=0Adraining. =0A=
=0A=09If you think it through, I bet they didn=E2=80=99t drive them into=
 the=0Acontainer and then do the de-fueling in the confines of the conta=
iner.=0ARather, drain the fuel or pump it out before pushing the car in=
 and=0Asecuring it. This sequence would provide more opportunity for the=
 key=0Ato be left on. In the end, we do know how the cars arrived, but n=
ot=0Ahow they got that way. Ah, the joys of travel!! =0A=0A=09----------=
------ =0A=0A=09All the best, =0A=0A=09Al Fuller  =0A=0A=09FROM: Bob Spi=
dell =0ASENT: Sunday, July 30, 2023 7:52 AM=0ATO: Michael Oritt =0ACC: a=
[email-masked]; [email-masked]=0ASUBJECT: Re: [Healeys] fu=
el pump   =0A=0A=09re: "He said _"When the cars arrived in Norway in ear=
ly June, several=0Ahadignition switches left in the 'on' position and th=
e battery master=0Aswitch_=0A_also left on"_ which would explain why the=
 batteries were run down."=0A=0ADang. Missed that (still on my first cup=
 of coffee). But, how do they=0Ashut their engines down if they leave th=
e ignition on? That's one=0Ascrew-up I've never managed in 55 years of d=
riving (sometimes, it's=0Ahard to shut them down even with the ignition=
 turned off). They would=0Ahave had to leave their keys in the ignition;=
 is that required for=0Ashipping?=0A=0Are: "Also, if any of the cars had=
 points ignitions and the contacts=0Awere closed would not that contribu=
te to current drain, if not a=0Aburned set of points?"=0A=0AThe points s=
hould be able to handle the load, limited by coil=0Aimpedance; it's when=
 opening the points suffer erosion. The coil would=0Alikely be damaged,=
 though, since without the engine running the=0Aprimary coil circuit is=
 almost a dead short (usually 1-3 ohms=0Aimpedance).=0A=0A=09On 7/30/202=
3 7:37 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:     =0A=0A=09Bob--   =0A=0A=09He said _"=
When the cars arrived in Norway in early June, several had_=0A =0A=0A=09=
_ignition switches left in the 'on' position and the battery master=0Asw=
itch_=0A_also left on"_ which would explain why the batteries were run d=
own.  =0A=0A=0A=09Also, if any of the cars had points ignitions and the=
 contacts were=0Aclosed would not that contribute to current drain, if n=
ot a burned set=0Aof points?   =0A=0A=09On Sun, Jul 30, 2023 at 10:17=E2=
=80=AFAM Bob Spidell  wrote:   =0A=0A=09That's kinda odd; did they leave=
 GPSs or some other electronics on?=0A Nothing on a stock Healey should=
 be drawing current with the key off.=0A I've left the cutoff 'on' for m=
onths without draining a battery.=0A=0A 'Modern' cars are a different st=
ory; they'll run a battery down in a=0Afew=0A weeks, with anti-theft, re=
mote unlock, etc. drawing current=0A continuously. Also, I think battery=
 quality has gone downhill overall=0A since most are now produced in Mex=
ico.=0A=0A On 7/29/2023 9:44 PM, [email-masked] wrote:=0A > Humm=
 - low battery causing the pump to effectively 'stall' is=0Asomething to=
=0A > think about...=0A >=0A > On a related note, I have my fingers cros=
sed for my own battery!=0AThe car is=0A > due to be shipped back from No=
rway any day now, returning from the=0AEuropean=0A > Healey Meet. When t=
he cars arrived in Norway in early June, several=0Ahad=0A > ignition swi=
tches left in the 'on' position and the battery master=0Aswitch=0A > als=
o left on. The result was several of the cars needed new=0Abatteries bef=
ore=0A > going anywhere. This was despite most everyone having printed=
=0A'starting and=0A > storing instructions' in the car calling for the b=
attery master=0Aswitch to be=0A > used. Like I said - fingers crossed...=
=0A >=0A > As to the Healey Meet - great roads! One of my favorites is=
=0ATrollstigen=0A > ['Troll's Ladder']. For a sample, see:=0A >  [1]http=
s://www.lifeinnorway.net/trollstigen-norway/ [2]=0A >=0A > -------------=
---=0A > All the best,=0A >=0A > Al Fuller=0A >=0A > -----Original Messa=
ge-----=0A > From: Healeys  On Behalf Of Bob Spidell=0A > Sent: Friday,=
 July 28, 2023 7:00 PM=0A > To: [email-masked]=0A > Subject: Re:=
 [Healeys] fuel pump=0A >=0A > Conceivably--note: 'conceivably'--less th=
an 12V at the pump would=0Aleave the=0A > electromagnet charged but unab=
le to fully retract the diaphragm and=0Aopen the=0A > points (or electro=
nic circuit) to stop current flow. You'd still=0Ahave=0A > current flowi=
ng through the electromagnet, which could overheat=0Aand, well,=0A > fry=
.=0A >=0A >=0A > On 7/28/2023 2:37 PM, [email-masked] wrote:=0A >=
> Jim - I don't recall those messages, so maybe someone with more=0A >>=
 knowledge than me can respond.=0A >>=0A >> That said, I don't see how a=
 low or dead battery would damage a=0Afuel=0A >> pump. I would think the=
 pump would see just the circuit as=0Aunpowered=0A >> and not work, but=
 not suffer for the experience...=0A >>=0A >> ----------------=0A >> All=
 the best,=0A >>=0A >> Al Fuller=0A >>=0A >> -----Original Message-----=
=0A >> From: Healeys  On Behalf Of=0A >> healeymanjim=0A >> Sent: Friday=
, July 28, 2023 10:47 AM=0A >> To: [email-masked]=0A >> Subject:=
 [Healeys] fuel pump=0A >>=0A >> i have seen messages on the list where=
 folks have stated that low=0A >> battery can cause problems with solid=
 state fuel pump. the battery=0Ai=0A >> replaced was so weak it would no=
t turn the motor over even with=0Aplugs=0A >> removed. any info on this=
 anyplace on the internet?=0A >>=0A >=0A >=0A=0A _______________________=
________________________=0A Support Team.Net  [3]http://www.team.net/don=
ate.html [4]=0A Suggested annual donation $12.75=0A=0A Archive:  [5]http=
://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys [6] =0A[7]http://autox.team.net/archiv=
e/healeys [8]=0A=[email-masked]=0A [9]http://autox.team.net/ma=
ilman/listinfo/healeys [10]=0A=0A Unsubscribe/Manage: =0A[11]http://auto=
x.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]=0A[12]    =0A=
=0A=09   =0A=0ALinks:=0A------=0A[1] https://www.lifeinnorway.net/trolls=
tigen-norway/=0A[2] https://www.lifeinnorway.net/trollstigen-norway/=0A[=
3] http://www.team.net/donate.html=0A[4] http://www.team.net/donate.html=
=0A[5] http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys=0A[6] http://www.team.net/p=
ipermail/healeys=0A[7] http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys=0A[8] http:=
//autox.team.net/archive/healeys=0A[9] http://autox.team.net/mailman/lis=
tinfo/healeys=0A[10] http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys=0A[1=
1]=0Ahttp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/[email-masked]=
om=0A[12]=0Ahttp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michael.oritt@=
gmail.com=0A

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<html><body>Stevedores! Back in the day the Austin-Healey 100 body parts=
 were "upgraded" to use a steel bonnet and boot lid in place of the orig=
inal aluminum style. This modification was directed at the behest of Don=
ald Healey, himself, who upon bringing his cars to the US experienced ma=
jor damage to them from stevedores walking over the cars to get from one=
 end of the hold to the other. Cars are stuffed together with as little=
 as 3" between them.<div><br></div><div>I wrote an article in the J/F 20=
23 edition of the Austin Healey Magazine discussing the issue and just h=
ow badly these cars were treated by the shipping companies trusted with=
 their safe delivery. Many cars were damaged and required extensive body=
 repairs at the receiving port dealer. Some cars were so sadly treated t=
hat they had to be scrapped.</div><div><br></div><div>As Al notes-"the j=
oys of travel" can be directly related to those individuals who are paid=
 handsomely to deliver cars across the seas in one piece, not necessaril=
y in a good piece. Hank<br><br><div class=3D"reply-new-signature"></div>=
<p>-----------------------------------------</p>From: alfuller194@gmail.=
com<br>To: "Bob Spidell", "Michael Oritt"<br>Cc: [email-masked]<=
br>Sent: Sunday July 30 2023 2:33:19PM<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] fuel pu=
mp<br><br>=0A<div class=3D"WordSection1">=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Good=
 question on just what was the sequence of=0Aevents that led to the igni=
tion switches being left =E2=80=98on=E2=80=99.&nbsp;</p>=0A<p class=3D"M=
soNormal">&nbsp;</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">One clue might be in somet=
hing I neglected to=0Amention in my prior post: they also drained the fu=
el tanks. And by=0Adrained, I mean every drop of fuel! At least one car=
 leaked out of=0Athe fuel tank drain on refueling, because the drain plu=
g had not=0Abeen secured after the draining.</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal=
">&nbsp;</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If you think it through, I bet the=
y didn=E2=80=99t=0Adrive them into the container and then do the de-fuel=
ing in the=0Aconfines of the container. Rather, drain the fuel or pump i=
t out=0Abefore pushing the car in and securing it. This sequence would=
=0Aprovide more opportunity for the key to be left on. In the end, we=0A=
do know how the cars arrived, but not how they got that way.&nbsp;=0AAh,=
 the joys of travel!!</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>=0A<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">----------------</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">All=
 the best,</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNorm=
al">Al Fuller</p>=0A</div>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>=0A<div>=
=0A<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1pt;padding:3pt 0i=
n 0in 0in;">=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Bob Spidell=0A&lt;bsp=
[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, July 30, 2023 7:52 AM<br><=
b>To:</b> Michael Oritt &lt;[email-masked]&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> al=
[email-masked]; [email-masked]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heal=
eys] fuel pump</p>=0A</div>=0A</div>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>=
=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt;">re: "<span style=
=3D"color:#3333FF;">He said</span> <i><span style=3D"color:#0000FF;">"Wh=
en=0Athe cars arrived in Norway in early June, several hadignition=0Aswi=
tches left in the 'on' position and the battery master=0Aswitch</span></=
i><span style=3D"color:#0000FF;"><br><i>also left on<span class=3D"gmail=
default">"</span></i><span class=3D"gmaildefault">&nbsp;which would expl=
ain why the batteries were run=0Adown."</span><br><br><span class=3D"gma=
ildefault">Dang. Missed that (still on my first cup=0Aof coffee). But, h=
ow do they shut their engines down if they leave=0Athe ignition on? That=
's one screw-up I've never managed in 55 years=0Aof driving (sometimes,=
 it's hard to shut them down even with the=0Aignition turned off). They=
 would have had to leave their keys in=0Athe ignition; is that required=
 for shipping?</span><br><br><span class=3D"gmaildefault">re: "Also, if=
 any of the cars had points=0Aignitions and the contacts were closed wou=
ld not that contribute to=0Acurrent drain, if not a burned set of points=
?"</span><br><br><span class=3D"gmaildefault">The points should be able=
 to handle the=0Aload, limited by coil impedance; it's when opening the=
 points=0Asuffer erosion. The coil would likely be damaged, though, sinc=
e=0Awithout the engine running the primary coil circuit is almost a=0Ade=
ad short (usually 1-3 ohms impedance).</span><br><br></span></p>=0A<div>=
=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 7/30/2023 7:37 AM, Michael Oritt wrote:</p>=
=0A</div>=0A<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;">=0A<=
div>=0A<div>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#3333FF;">Bob=
--</span></p>=0A</div>=0A<div>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:#3333FF;">&nbsp;</span></p>=0A</div>=0A<div>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"color:#3333FF;">He said</span>=0A<i><span style=3D"col=
or:#0000FF;">"When the cars arrived in Norway in=0Aearly June, several h=
ad</span></i></p>=0A</div>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"co=
lor:#0000FF;">ignition switches=0Aleft in the 'on' position and the batt=
ery master=0Aswitch</span></i><span style=3D"color:#0000FF;"><br><i>also=
 left on<span class=3D"gmaildefault">"</span></i><span class=3D"gmaildef=
ault">&nbsp;which would explain why the batteries were run=0Adown.&nbsp;=
&nbsp;</span></span></p>=0A<div>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>=0A<=
/div>=0A<div>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"gmaildefault"><spa=
n style=3D"color:#0000FF;">Also, if any of the cars had points ignitions=
 and the=0Acontacts were closed would not that contribute to current dra=
in, if=0Anot a burned set of points?</span></span></p>=0A</div>=0A</div>=
=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>=0A<div>=0A<div>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal">On Sun, Jul 30, 2023 at 10:17=E2=80=AFAM Bob Spidell=0A&lt;<a>bspi=
[email-masked]</a>&gt;=0Awrote:</p>=0A</div>=0A<blockquote style=3D"bo=
rder:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-l=
eft:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;">=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-b=
ottom:12pt;">That's kinda odd;=0Adid they leave GPSs or some other elect=
ronics on?<br>=0ANothing on a stock Healey should be drawing current wit=
h the key=0Aoff.<br>=0AI've left the cutoff 'on' for months without drai=
ning a=0Abattery.<br><br>=0A'Modern' cars are a different story; they'll=
 run a battery down in=0Aa few<br>=0Aweeks, with anti-theft, remote unlo=
ck, etc. drawing current<br>=0Acontinuously. Also, I think battery quali=
ty has gone downhill=0Aoverall<br>=0Asince most are now produced in Mexi=
co.<br><br><br>=0AOn 7/29/2023 9:44 PM, <a>[email-masked]</a> wro=
te:<br>=0A&gt; Humm - low battery causing the pump to effectively 'stall=
' is=0Asomething to<br>=0A&gt; think about...<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt; On a=
 related note, I have my fingers crossed for my own=0Abattery!&nbsp; The=
 car is<br>=0A&gt; due to be shipped back from Norway any day now, retur=
ning from=0Athe European<br>=0A&gt; Healey Meet. When the cars arrived i=
n Norway in early June,=0Aseveral had<br>=0A&gt; ignition switches left=
 in the 'on' position and the battery=0Amaster switch<br>=0A&gt; also le=
ft on. The result was several of the cars needed new=0Abatteries before<=
br>=0A&gt; going anywhere.&nbsp; This was despite most everyone having=
=0Aprinted 'starting and<br>=0A&gt; storing instructions' in the car cal=
ling for the battery=0Amaster switch to be<br>=0A&gt; used.&nbsp; Like I=
 said - fingers crossed...<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt; As to the Healey Meet -=
 great roads! One of my favorites is=0ATrollstigen<br>=0A&gt; ['Troll's=
 Ladder']. For a sample, see:<br>=0A&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.lifeinno=
rway.net/trollstigen-norway/"></a><a href=3D"https://www.lifeinnorway.ne=
t/trollstigen-norway/">https://www.lifeinnorway.net/trollstigen-norway/<=
/a><br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt; ----------------<br>=0A&gt; All the best,<br>=
=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt; Al Fuller<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt; -----Original Message=
-----<br>=0A&gt; From: Healeys &lt;<a>[email-masked]</a>=
&gt; On Behalf Of Bob=0ASpidell<br>=0A&gt; Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 7=
:00 PM<br>=0A&gt; To: <a>[email-masked]</a><br>=0A&gt; Subject:=
 Re: [Healeys] fuel pump<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt; Conceivably--note: 'conce=
ivably'--less than 12V at the pump=0Awould leave the<br>=0A&gt; electrom=
agnet charged but unable to fully retract the=0Adiaphragm and open the<b=
r>=0A&gt; points (or electronic circuit) to stop current flow. You'd=0As=
till have<br>=0A&gt; current flowing through the electromagnet, which co=
uld=0Aoverheat and, well,<br>=0A&gt; fry.<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&g=
t; On 7/28/2023 2:37 PM, <a>[email-masked]</a> wrote:<br>=0A&gt;&=
gt; Jim - I don't recall those messages, so maybe someone with=0Amore<br=
>=0A&gt;&gt; knowledge than me can respond.<br>=0A&gt;&gt;<br>=0A&gt;&gt=
; That said, I don't see how a low or dead battery would=0Adamage a fuel=
<br>=0A&gt;&gt; pump. I would think the pump would see just the circuit=
 as=0Aunpowered<br>=0A&gt;&gt; and not work, but not suffer for the expe=
rience...<br>=0A&gt;&gt;<br>=0A&gt;&gt; ----------------<br>=0A&gt;&gt;=
 All the best,<br>=0A&gt;&gt;<br>=0A&gt;&gt; Al Fuller<br>=0A&gt;&gt;<br=
>=0A&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>=0A&gt;&gt; From: Healeys &lt=
;<a>[email-masked]</a>&gt; On Behalf Of<br>=0A&gt;&gt; h=
ealeymanjim<br>=0A&gt;&gt; Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 10:47 AM<br>=0A&g=
t;&gt; To: <a>[email-masked]</a><br>=0A&gt;&gt; Subject: [Healey=
s] fuel pump<br>=0A&gt;&gt;<br>=0A&gt;&gt; i have seen messages on the l=
ist where folks have stated=0Athat low<br>=0A&gt;&gt; battery can cause=
 problems with solid state fuel=0Apump.&nbsp; the battery i<br>=0A&gt;&g=
t; replaced was so weak it would not turn the motor over even=0Awith plu=
gs<br>=0A&gt;&gt; removed.&nbsp; any info on this anyplace on the=0Ainte=
rnet?<br>=0A&gt;&gt;<br>=0A&gt;<br>=0A&gt;<br><br>=0A___________________=
____________________________<br>=0ASupport Team.Net <a href=3D"http://ww=
w.team.net/donate.html"></a><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html">=
; $12.75<br><br>=0AArchive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/hea=
leys"></a><a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys">http://www.t=
eam.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive/h=
ealeys"></a><a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys">http://aut=
ox.team.net/archive/healeys</a><br><br><a>[email-masked]</a><br>=
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys"></a><a href=
=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys">http://autox.team.ne=
t/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br><br>=0AUnsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"=
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[email-masked]">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michael.oritt=
@gmail.com</a></p>=0A</blockquote>=0A</div>=0A</blockquote>=0A<p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>=0A</div>=0A</div></body></html>

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