From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 1 13:54:11 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B3D0A10D7 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 13:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-io1-f54.google.com (unknown [209.85.166.54]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED51EA132B for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 08:57:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-io1-f54.google.com with SMTP id o127so22014993iof.0 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 07:57:14 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8EFSL6EWVNvQpZSzVOwtp6zu42pHeQhXiYaK4t5FEEE=; b=iTUEp2xrLTX4X3Z5DLRttPQbtwKPWYGfknMQhcFk5Fv4zqD/rfY89gHWMuNNFfLB+5 bWRyFJNvY9TNenlbBT5peCB90yb8Z0npNErkUqFWkPLowcOQYlSr4EINvgCTcxibUpEP FsUuiw5njwBKm+sj0LmwOY5lnTkft+sud9loKBpCVxH1r7MqagIcFvGxjrpVe4y5K4hX tXp8PgZm27QTgnGAZ3Qgw+xgF/lXiQEuxRMelmdP2MeNBv1ipEyt96Q4Vz6MpP7A/Lw/ znNsjblH61Wh/PGxj5LmT9dfUjr1bP9N74zxjtpTlsM44ErAE6Y88NNVHTZDePjXQwxa QI+g== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8EFSL6EWVNvQpZSzVOwtp6zu42pHeQhXiYaK4t5FEEE=; b=TeMS1DST6+l6KhpdLCWA1b2sA/4J7p7mhWbxcLe5h/RT0nYWnlPH2uGQ9to25ByGVx lVlSqw96NENdQsqHV+h41m0DxQPE3dPKCHohGIqI8qlZLIhIQd/nFi/JX6CDrzCLfAdc X6tUDtTE3OpViKoOgvSocB+f4XdOJoFijFisy0cF7JVCuVXXK+UY3LIDlVse0USa4Xg+ /S2jMIUlFYqQXZXHc4C4WEx++kbfGb0mf0Pet2+9ROzGyiSFO4mneJXM0+xP4BcVgc7y H9wOhCDZdK2bPu4ZXXLghVBJ08kYYOFl6RQRIRYgvdqZEn6DMssTj+O8RnBfeemavMFg rVXg== PRd7iXmL2QBN7/iOI8t9iRX3Io7ZZQzjEVUpUKY= Tue, 31 Mar 2020 07:57:14 -0700 (PDT) References: <1031304452.38386.1585582490874@connect.xfinity.com> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 10:57:02 -0400 To: Thomas FitzGibbon Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: Paul Parkanzky via Shop-talk Cc: Philip Ethier via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I don't think a revolver is a poor choice but there's no way I'd store an expensive revolver like that in the garage. I agree with other commenters that say that if he doesn't have any intention of carrying the firearm that there's no reason to compromise with a handgun. I'd choose either a cheap AR-pattern rifle or an inexpensive shotgun in one of Hornady's rapidsafe wall mounts or a similar secured wall mount. -Paul On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 10:50 AM Thomas FitzGibbon via Shop-talk wrote: > > Eric, > > I second the stainless steel revolver recommendation, maybe a Colt Python in .357 magnum. I'd be concerned that a semi-auto would be more sensitive to that kind of environment, but either way it should not be too challenging. Desiccant packs are going to be critical, especially to protect the ammo as the gun itself should be OK with a light coat of oil. > > Good luck. > > Tom > > On March 29, 2020 at 8:38 PM Philip Ethier via Shop-talk wrote: > > I'd recommend a stainless double-action revolver, attached to your person in a holster designed to make it impossible for the cylinder to revolve until the weapon is removed from the holster. > > > > On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 12:58 PM eric--- via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > > Ok, I know I've asked some weird questions before, but I think this one will take the cake. > > I live out in the country, and often work well into the night with a large shop door open. With having bears, coyotes and other large animals in the area, I got to thinking, it might be a good idea to keep a pistol in the garage to scare off any would be 'late night snackers." > Actually, I had a run-in the other night that made me think about this. > > So my question is, if I have a pistol, in a rapid access safe in a shop environment, what factors should I consider? I understand that humidity will play a huge role, as will dust (I have to see how 'sealed' the safe is.) > > Is there anything I'm missing that I should consider? I understand that I will most likely have to clean the weapon often, but is there anything I need to think about? > > Also, I'm open to suggestions for a weapon type. I thinking an XD-M elite polymer hand gun. With mostly composite parts. Similar to a Glock. (Note, I don't have anything against Glock, I just never owned one. I do have and love my XD however, so Glock isn't out of consideration.) > > I don't want this to turn into a 2nd amendment thread. Just a 'what to consider' for leaving a pistol in a shop. > > Note, in my shop I do just about everything, metal work, wood work, car and heavy equipment work, etc. > > Thanks in advance. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 2 08:13:29 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3312A15C1 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 08:13:29 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qk1-f175.google.com (unknown [209.85.222.175]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF65CA0BC5 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 08:06:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-qk1-f175.google.com with SMTP id d11so4008996qko.3 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 07:06:21 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:cc; bh=a3TUFdI3cjIRe/O4Clm8q0PDT/hmbEPoyrMoXet2Gfc=; b=JO8x+0wU747c0FEqNB8u1xwFla2wmqjT4Fcp3w8RDkoQyufUi8KzJssHPOVD2niXhz NXL0yB2EsJbd+10cx+KQXwuAOnSx2yryQwUvZyUG/LT3utRsZutrviUwxe19fIEFhuY+ 17LK/eJCns1HzA1Wm/5jAPsAq3EkS1z1FU+WkjREtWZ+kLEbEJk6uBqsfGxyT9I0dw+6 pn/9BGo7/hRwhA9y8Bkb9J/7XA1y10O/w6upTOwKBvlrJ1lE+nYHlSw7WHbAGEeF3gor 0TNui77U8EseauaOr0wls/zDMkxmqSIEk3wuZfZEFMwLDlIbXEq72As0M36jQ2bt1XgC cQ7g== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:cc; bh=a3TUFdI3cjIRe/O4Clm8q0PDT/hmbEPoyrMoXet2Gfc=; b=GCt3htYdRJRCBEAbZ9/PVoxNjcUjVm2PyjtF2n2+Jz7mKQ1soEJE57640fSqBJs1GI BQp495UAN3jxyNkTjsrTiz8VRVC67gzZMWZrpUbTDMFyM4/76gO75HiG5KwGQsOEhlHq UkHY75qhRRQj2WZxBUAwLsLbJc7xxOzdlGjr0102IVKDUNXRsoZcbl9Lvo9bbs0QaYnV dXCmg8CPVfB7BU+p7PmDv0I6mH4LwHSeJsX5aS+qN8NN4M4k6mXW2OwuOVKNafFVK238 F65e0Ax7n5dgJo9jx+R4fvIqNYMZgE1gMeL+Mwm9HAHKS9sDXuXD9bpupds5QzU/nIP+ HVWg== SWNfhuBUSEWKqOZpBws40STR2ZN2in8pgtiVHk3sESgI5f0= Thu, 02 Apr 2020 07:06:20 -0700 (PDT) References: <1031304452.38386.1585582490874@connect.xfinity.com> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 10:05:44 -0400 Cc: Philip Ethier via Shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: Tom Jones via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8722030232028822209== --000000000000248c1d05a24f4e3e Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There are a few things to consider. If a bear is your adversary, then a large caliber handgun is needed to get the penetration to stop their advancement. .357 magnum, 10 mm or 44 magnum, or a .30 caliber rifle or 12ga shotgun with slugs. Anything less just may focus your adversary=E2=80=99s attention on you and really make them mad. Where are you most likely to be located when a visitor would appear and where would your firearm be? Are you back to the door working at a bench or machine tool, under a car lift or on the floor on a creeper? Will you be able to reach your firearm and access it before your visitor reaches you? You don=E2=80=99t want them to corner you where you have no means of escape= . Access will determine the type of secure storage you=E2=80=99ll need. Carrying is = fine if you use a good quality holster with retention and trigger protection. Not sure how you would present the gun on a creeper under a car though. What direction would you most likely be firing? Towards your house or your neighbors house? No matter what you chose to use, what=E2=80=99s behind you= r potential target is your 2nd, hitting your target is the first and biggest headache. Revolvers are fine and most can be had in stainless as well as shotguns made for boating use. A lot of semi autos have stainless slides and barrels. Yes, maintenance, cleaning and oiling will be necessary. Even stainless firearms have carbon steel parts that need protected. A can of bear spray may provide enough of a diversion for your visitor so you can get out of harms way. Hopefully you keep a cell phone or landline phone close, heaven forbid, you have a run in and need help. It may be safer to close the door and find another means of fresh air and ventilation. On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 3:54 PM Paul Parkanzky via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > I don't think a revolver is a poor choice but there's no way I'd store > an expensive revolver like that in the garage. > > I agree with other commenters that say that if he doesn't have any > intention of carrying the firearm that there's no reason to compromise > with a handgun. I'd choose either a cheap AR-pattern rifle or an > inexpensive shotgun in one of Hornady's rapidsafe wall mounts or a > similar secured wall mount. > > -Paul > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 10:50 AM Thomas FitzGibbon via Shop-talk > wrote: > > > > Eric, > > > > I second the stainless steel revolver recommendation, maybe a Colt > Python in .357 magnum. I'd be concerned that a semi-auto would be more > sensitive to that kind of environment, but either way it should not be to= o > challenging. Desiccant packs are going to be critical, especially to > protect the ammo as the gun itself should be OK with a light coat of oil. > > > > Good luck. > > > > Tom > > > > On March 29, 2020 at 8:38 PM Philip Ethier via Shop-talk < > shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > > > > I'd recommend a stainless double-action revolver, attached to your > person in a holster designed to make it impossible for the cylinder to > revolve until the weapon is removed from the holster. > > > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 12:58 PM eric--- via Shop-talk < > shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > > > > Ok, I know I've asked some weird questions before, but I think this one > will take the cake. > > > > I live out in the country, and often work well into the night with a > large shop door open. With having bears, coyotes and other large animals > in the area, I got to thinking, it might be a good idea to keep a pistol = in > the garage to scare off any would be 'late night snackers." > > Actually, I had a run-in the other night that made me think about this. > > > > So my question is, if I have a pistol, in a rapid access safe in a shop > environment, what factors should I consider? I understand that humidity > will play a huge role, as will dust (I have to see how 'sealed' the safe > is.) > > > > Is there anything I'm missing that I should consider? I understand tha= t > I will most likely have to clean the weapon often, but is there anything = I > need to think about? > > > > Also, I'm open to suggestions for a weapon type. I thinking an XD-M > elite polymer hand gun. With mostly composite parts. Similar to a Glock= . > (Note, I don't have anything against Glock, I just never owned one. I do > have and love my XD however, so Glock isn't out of consideration.) > > > > I don't want this to turn into a 2nd amendment thread. Just a 'what to > consider' for leaving a pistol in a shop. > > > > Note, in my shop I do just about everything, metal work, wood work, car > and heavy equipment work, etc. > > > > Thanks in advance. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/t.w.jones1@gmail.com > > --000000000000248c1d05a24f4e3e Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ther= e are a few things to consider.

If a bear i= s your adversary, then a large caliber handgun is needed to get the penetra= tion to stop their advancement. .357 magnum, 10 mm or 44 magnum, or a .30 c= aliber rifle or 12ga shotgun with slugs.=C2=A0 Anything less just may focus= your adversary=E2=80=99s attention on you and really make them mad.

Where are you most likely to be located when a vi= sitor would appear and where would your firearm be?=C2=A0 Are you back to t= he door working at a bench or machine tool, under a car lift or on the floo= r on a creeper? Will you be able to reach your firearm and access it before= your visitor reaches you? You don=E2=80=99t want them to corner you where = you have no means of escape. Access will determine the type of secure stora= ge you=E2=80=99ll need. Carrying is fine if you use a good quality holster = with retention and trigger protection. Not sure how you would present the g= un on a creeper under a car though.

What di= rection would you most likely be firing? Towards your house or your neighbo= rs house? No matter what you chose to use, what=E2=80=99s behind your poten= tial target is your 2nd, hitting your target is the first and bi= ggest headache.

Revolvers are fine and most= can be had in stainless as well as shotguns made for boating use. A lot of= semi autos have stainless slides and barrels. Yes, maintenance, cleaning a= nd oiling will be necessary. Even stainless firearms have carbon steel part= s that need protected.

A can of bear spray = may provide enough of a diversion for your visitor so you can get out of ha= rms way.

Hopefully you keep a cell phone or= landline phone close, heaven forbid, you have a run in and need help.

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:19.046px;font= -family:Calibri,sans-serif">It may be safer to close the door and find anot= her means of fresh air and ventilation.


On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 3:5= 4 PM Paul Parkanzky via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
I don't think a revolver is a poor cho= ice but there's no way I'd store
an expensive revolver like that in the garage.

I agree with other commenters that say that if he doesn't have any
intention of carrying the firearm that there's no reason to compromise<= br> with a handgun. I'd choose either a cheap AR-pattern rifle or an
inexpensive shotgun in one of Hornady's rapidsafe wall mounts or a
similar secured wall mount.

-Paul

On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 10:50 AM Thomas FitzGibbon via Shop-talk
<shop-talk= @autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> Eric,
>
> I second the stainless steel revolver recommendation, maybe a Colt Pyt= hon in .357 magnum.=C2=A0 I'd be concerned that a semi-auto would be mo= re sensitive to that kind of environment, but either way it should not be t= oo challenging.=C2=A0 Desiccant packs are going to be critical, especially = to protect the ammo as the gun itself should be OK with a light coat of oil= .
>
> Good luck.
>
> Tom
>
> On March 29, 2020 at 8:38 PM Philip Ethier via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team= .net> wrote:
>
> I'd recommend a stainless double-action revolver, attached to your= person in a holster designed to make it impossible for the cylinder to rev= olve until the weapon is removed from the holster.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 12:58 PM eric--- via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.ne= t> wrote:
>
> Ok, I know I've asked some weird questions before, but I think thi= s one will take the cake.
>
> I live out in the country, and often work well into the night with a l= arge shop door open.=C2=A0 With having bears, coyotes and other large anima= ls in the area, I got to thinking, it might be a good idea to keep a pistol= in the garage to scare off any would be 'late night snackers." > Actually, I had a run-in the other night that made me think about this= .
>
> So my question is, if I have a pistol, in a rapid access safe in a sho= p environment, what factors should I consider?=C2=A0 I understand that humi= dity will play a huge role, as will dust (I have to see how 'sealed'= ; the safe is.)
>
> Is there anything I'm missing that I should consider?=C2=A0 I unde= rstand that I will most likely have to clean the weapon often, but is there= anything I need to think about?
>
> Also, I'm open to suggestions for a weapon type.=C2=A0 I thinking = an XD-M elite polymer hand gun.=C2=A0 With mostly composite parts.=C2=A0 Si= milar to a Glock.=C2=A0 (Note, I don't have anything against Glock, I j= ust never owned one.=C2=A0 I do have and love my XD however, so Glock isn&#= 39;t out of consideration.)
>
> I don't want this to turn into a 2nd amendment thread.=C2=A0 Just = a 'what to consider' for leaving a pistol in a shop.
>
> Note, in my shop I do just about everything, metal work, wood work, ca= r and heavy equipment work, etc.
>
> Thanks in advance.
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/t.w.jones1@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox= .team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/t.w.jones1@gmail.com

--000000000000248c1d05a24f4e3e-- --===============8722030232028822209== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8722030232028822209==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 2 08:36:46 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99D54A1618 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 08:36:46 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from smtp-out-4.talktalk.net (unknown [62.24.135.68]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAB16A0E79 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 08:36:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from NeilHP ([89.242.146.255]) by smtp.talktalk.net with SMTP id K0xTjF9IFJ5cyK0xTjtPJX; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 15:36:39 +0100 s=cmr1711; t=1585838200; bh=4wWwiqNZqUNfHwjbdWb2/zQy1Hg4KZQHpBaOpv/c3hE=; h=From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date; b=Eb3/IBxzyD7dgrQ2de9XJzEJanWesHXauBRNsyve4PdwmBNzxZrrURNWm7Iael45p HQOvoY7PHPT/1fUgsUhjuqgoFKV7ztNvnB1Ws8Xl5yIeyGlNjIHjddJw/40ZktyHnT 0NHjPpPrmmQ4+tr1OYlOXtX4xzHCwUOsscVnMY+Q= a=kwzdOlO7yPUboy7hovq1Bw==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=DAwyPP_o2Byb1YXLmDAA:9 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=zS25yqVAgB-6EvTbqLwA:9 a=nkC3Ub-AInBB8OAK:21 a=mON03yNHn1zoUTsQ:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=m3MdUl94G8cA:10 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=ko05qG-JE5MMaj4JSp4A:9 a=KV7082ZqtKRXOiC_:21 a=K_OG5f5n4xHPFT2s:21 a=AyzrOryry9n5VtvS:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=GGGinmgZRQXmVEG1E52S:22 To: References: <1031304452.38386.1585582490874@connect.xfinity.com> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 15:36:38 +0100 Thread-Index: AQHBLi+FV4ifw1cVtjJrYH+JQtjzKQJjeNyrAmvIpFIBCeoTlgJlO6U2qE2mnsA= Content-Language: en-gb eqtk5bMVllRV1fvtIqJdAge7a+iZ4Edk/lpiP6PIRYlcIqrxMRLUb9cxzKy7K3yNHmsgnEKD5nLZzA== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: Neil Sherry via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============3218768080436072815== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B8_01D60904.80886570" Content-Language: en-gb This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B8_01D60904.80886570 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This all seems alien to me =E2=80=93 living in the UK we don=E2=80=99t = such ready access to firearms =E2=80=93 and even then basically only = shotguns =E2=80=93 and also because we generally don=E2=80=99t have such = wildlife, so please excuse my naivety! So, my thoughts are more along the lines of finding other ways to deal = with the potential threat. Would a bear or coyote be really after a = meal, rather than a fight? So could there be a solution involving food? = Maybe it would create a bigger problem long term, but could a = well-stocked bin or something at least be a diversion to buy time (to = get out or get your weapon). Throw a bar of chocolate. Or a jar of = honey! Neil =20 From: Shop-talk On Behalf Of Tom = Jones via Shop-talk Sent: 02 April 2020 15:06 Cc: Philip Ethier via Shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked = here. =20 There are a few things to consider. If a bear is your adversary, then a large caliber handgun is needed to = get the penetration to stop their advancement. .357 magnum, 10 mm or 44 = magnum, or a .30 caliber rifle or 12ga shotgun with slugs. Anything = less just may focus your adversary=E2=80=99s attention on you and really = make them mad. Where are you most likely to be located when a visitor would appear and = where would your firearm be? Are you back to the door working at a = bench or machine tool, under a car lift or on the floor on a creeper? = Will you be able to reach your firearm and access it before your visitor = reaches you? You don=E2=80=99t want them to corner you where you have no = means of escape. Access will determine the type of secure storage = you=E2=80=99ll need. Carrying is fine if you use a good quality holster = with retention and trigger protection. Not sure how you would present = the gun on a creeper under a car though. What direction would you most likely be firing? Towards your house or = your neighbors house? No matter what you chose to use, what=E2=80=99s = behind your potential target is your 2nd, hitting your target is the = first and biggest headache. Revolvers are fine and most can be had in stainless as well as shotguns = made for boating use. A lot of semi autos have stainless slides and = barrels. Yes, maintenance, cleaning and oiling will be necessary. Even = stainless firearms have carbon steel parts that need protected. A can of bear spray may provide enough of a diversion for your visitor = so you can get out of harms way. Hopefully you keep a cell phone or landline phone close, heaven forbid, = you have a run in and need help. It may be safer to close the door and find another means of fresh air = and ventilation. =20 On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 3:54 PM Paul Parkanzky via Shop-talk = I don't think a revolver is a poor choice but there's no way I'd store an expensive revolver like that in the garage. I agree with other commenters that say that if he doesn't have any intention of carrying the firearm that there's no reason to compromise with a handgun. I'd choose either a cheap AR-pattern rifle or an inexpensive shotgun in one of Hornady's rapidsafe wall mounts or a similar secured wall mount. -Paul On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 10:50 AM Thomas FitzGibbon via Shop-talk > > Eric, > > I second the stainless steel revolver recommendation, maybe a Colt = Python in .357 magnum. I'd be concerned that a semi-auto would be more = sensitive to that kind of environment, but either way it should not be = too challenging. Desiccant packs are going to be critical, especially = to protect the ammo as the gun itself should be OK with a light coat of = oil. > > Good luck. > > Tom > > On March 29, 2020 at 8:38 PM Philip Ethier via Shop-talk = > > I'd recommend a stainless double-action revolver, attached to your = person in a holster designed to make it impossible for the cylinder to = revolve until the weapon is removed from the holster. > > > > On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 12:58 PM eric--- via Shop-talk < = > > Ok, I know I've asked some weird questions before, but I think this = one will take the cake. > > I live out in the country, and often work well into the night with a = large shop door open. With having bears, coyotes and other large = animals in the area, I got to thinking, it might be a good idea to keep = a pistol in the garage to scare off any would be 'late night snackers." > Actually, I had a run-in the other night that made me think about = this. > > So my question is, if I have a pistol, in a rapid access safe in a = shop environment, what factors should I consider? I understand that = humidity will play a huge role, as will dust (I have to see how 'sealed' = the safe is.) > > Is there anything I'm missing that I should consider? I understand = that I will most likely have to clean the weapon often, but is there = anything I need to think about? > > Also, I'm open to suggestions for a weapon type. I thinking an XD-M = elite polymer hand gun. With mostly composite parts. Similar to a = Glock. (Note, I don't have anything against Glock, I just never owned = one. I do have and love my XD however, so Glock isn't out of = consideration.) > > I don't want this to turn into a 2nd amendment thread. Just a 'what = to consider' for leaving a pistol in a shop. > > Note, in my shop I do just about everything, metal work, wood work, = car and heavy equipment work, etc. > > Thanks in advance. _______________________________________________ Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/t.w.jones1@gmail.com ------=_NextPart_000_00B8_01D60904.80886570 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This all seems alien to me = =E2=80=93 living in the UK we don=E2=80=99t such ready access to = firearms =E2=80=93 and even then basically only shotguns =E2=80=93 and = also because we generally don=E2=80=99t have such wildlife, so please = excuse my naivety!

So, my thoughts are more along the = lines of finding other ways to deal with the potential threat. Would a = bear or coyote be really after a meal, rather than a fight? So could = there be a solution involving food? Maybe it would create a bigger = problem long term, but could a well-stocked bin or something at least be = a diversion to buy time (to get out or get your weapon). Throw a bar of = chocolate. Or a jar of honey!

Neil

 

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> On = Behalf Of Tom Jones via Shop-talk
Sent: 02 April 2020 = 15:06
Cc: Philip Ethier via Shop-talk = <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] = Maybe the weirest shop related question asked = here.

 

There are a few things to = consider.

If a bear is your adversary, then = a large caliber handgun is needed to get the penetration to stop their = advancement. .357 magnum, 10 mm or 44 magnum, or a .30 caliber rifle or = 12ga shotgun with slugs.  Anything less just may focus your = adversary=E2=80=99s attention on you and really make them = mad.

Where are you most likely to be = located when a visitor would appear and where would your firearm = be?  Are you back to the door working at a bench or machine tool, = under a car lift or on the floor on a creeper? Will you be able to reach = your firearm and access it before your visitor reaches you? You = don=E2=80=99t want them to corner you where you have no means of escape. = Access will determine the type of secure storage you=E2=80=99ll need. = Carrying is fine if you use a good quality holster with retention and = trigger protection. Not sure how you would present the gun on a creeper = under a car though.

What direction would you most = likely be firing? Towards your house or your neighbors house? No matter = what you chose to use, what=E2=80=99s behind your potential target is = your 2nd, hitting your target is the first and biggest = headache.

Revolvers are fine and most can = be had in stainless as well as shotguns made for boating use. A lot of = semi autos have stainless slides and barrels. Yes, maintenance, cleaning = and oiling will be necessary. Even stainless firearms have carbon steel = parts that need protected.

A can of bear spray may provide = enough of a diversion for your visitor so you can get out of harms = way.

Hopefully you keep a cell phone = or landline phone close, heaven forbid, you have a run in and need = help.

It may be safer to close the door = and find another means of fresh air and = ventilation.

 

On = Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 3:54 PM Paul Parkanzky via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>= wrote:

I don't think a revolver is a poor choice = but there's no way I'd store
an expensive revolver like that in the = garage.

I agree with other commenters that say that if he doesn't = have any
intention of carrying the firearm that there's no reason to = compromise
with a handgun. I'd choose either a cheap AR-pattern rifle = or an
inexpensive shotgun in one of Hornady's rapidsafe wall mounts = or a
similar secured wall mount.

-Paul

On Tue, Mar 31, = 2020 at 10:50 AM Thomas FitzGibbon via Shop-talk
<shop-talk@autox.team.net> = wrote:
>
> Eric,
>
> I second the stainless = steel revolver recommendation, maybe a Colt Python in .357 magnum.  = I'd be concerned that a semi-auto would be more sensitive to that kind = of environment, but either way it should not be too challenging.  = Desiccant packs are going to be critical, especially to protect the ammo = as the gun itself should be OK with a light coat of oil.
>
> = Good luck.
>
> Tom
>
> On March 29, 2020 at 8:38 = PM Philip Ethier via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> = wrote:
>
> I'd recommend a stainless double-action revolver, = attached to your person in a holster designed to make it impossible for = the cylinder to revolve until the weapon is removed from the = holster.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 12:58 = PM eric--- via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> = wrote:
>
> Ok, I know I've asked some weird questions = before, but I think this one will take the cake.
>
> I live = out in the country, and often work well into the night with a large shop = door open.  With having bears, coyotes and other large animals in = the area, I got to thinking, it might be a good idea to keep a pistol in = the garage to scare off any would be 'late night snackers."
> = Actually, I had a run-in the other night that made me think about = this.
>
> So my question is, if I have a pistol, in a rapid = access safe in a shop environment, what factors should I consider?  = I understand that humidity will play a huge role, as will dust (I have = to see how 'sealed' the safe is.)
>
> Is there anything I'm = missing that I should consider?  I understand that I will most = likely have to clean the weapon often, but is there anything I need to = think about?
>
> Also, I'm open to suggestions for a weapon = type.  I thinking an XD-M elite polymer hand gun.  With mostly = composite parts.  Similar to a Glock.  (Note, I don't have = anything against Glock, I just never owned one.  I do have and love = my XD however, so Glock isn't out of consideration.)
>
> I = don't want this to turn into a 2nd amendment thread.  Just a 'what = to consider' for leaving a pistol in a shop.
>
> Note, in my = shop I do just about everything, metal work, wood work, car and heavy = equipment work, etc.
>
> Thanks in = advance.
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested = annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Ma= nage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/t.w.jon= es1@gmail.com

------=_NextPart_000_00B8_01D60904.80886570-- --===============3218768080436072815== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3218768080436072815==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 2 10:16:00 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A155A1744 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 10:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-06v.sys.comcast.net (unknown [69.252.207.38]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F18EBA1629 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 10:15:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-15v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.111]) by resqmta-ch2-06v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id K1lzjm89glbu3K2VVjTAXQ; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 16:15:53 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1585844153; bh=z8Qu5MBAjpgfAx42ki0gDvVNsLDoZMHM38CB78LMu/c=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=ziOe5JTI1QfV+Bjk7Zhu/c3gv8zkX0rE2q8MBX4OyUH+LQrt506uclt/eKDnxGq4U VKNJD3hG/+hkSLlz4oWJ979DCbuCSl9+WLwsnWngL2BULqjF8qMPFU9LKtJLKpitDy z17lfzqXQuruSOHYQI5x5gzEyo6YDRX3U7O7any6xoD82gXO8VRi6krXhQ+OcryZWa 5pw8BHqPuRvxy3MRh4VUCk5ddMbCTzrzQzupoxqr1ATrZSC+LdaKoSmYWdg7vs1Hd5 jVUW/XP69TnQyST3W1U6Vn6PAbfMAmGYdvB79sfNXVASOmjA/pLDEEm1ueYzq21Zk1 1sE0narv4ZseQ== Received: from [IPv6:2601:203:581:2df0:f5aa:acf3:a18:9edc] ([IPv6:2601:203:581:2df0:f5aa:acf3:a18:9edc]) by resomta-ch2-15v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id K2VNjrjk3mvz6K2VPj8tKk; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 16:15:47 +0000 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <1031304452.38386.1585582490874@connect.xfinity.com> <00b701d608fc$1ec1da90$5c458fb0$@talktalk.net> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 09:15:46 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: Bob Spidell via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============5329612100099943415== boundary="------------5CCED9DE8AE0D2281D716548" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5CCED9DE8AE0D2281D716548 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Coyotes are not to be trifled with, and bears have an incredible sense of smell (they might smell the greasy hamburger you had for lunch, or its wrapper): https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Coyote-attack-girl-Dublin-park-hospital-injury-15172995.php Note Dublin is an upscale 'Silicon Valley' community; the little girl will (possibly) have to endure a rabies protocol treatment if they don't find the offending coyote. I think they're mostly solitary, but if they ganged-up like wolves they'd be a real problem; they've largely prospered shadowing humans for garbage or whatever food-like stuff we leave hanging around. There are quite a few roaming the (mostly empty) streets of San Francisco. Bob On 4/2/2020 7:36 AM, Neil Sherry via Shop-talk wrote: > > This all seems alien to me – living in the UK we don’t such ready > access to firearms – and even then basically only shotguns – and also > because we generally don’t have such wildlife, so please excuse my > naivety! > > So, my thoughts are more along the lines of finding other ways to deal > with the potential threat. Would a bear or coyote be really after a > meal, rather than a fight? So could there be a solution involving > food? Maybe it would create a bigger problem long term, but could a > well-stocked bin or something at least be a diversion to buy time (to > get out or get your weapon). Throw a bar of chocolate. Or a jar of honey! > > Neil > > --------------5CCED9DE8AE0D2281D716548 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Coyotes are not to be trifled with, and bears have an incredible sense of smell (they might smell the greasy hamburger you had for lunch, or its wrapper):

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Coyote-attack-girl-Dublin-park-hospital-injury-15172995.php

Note Dublin is an upscale 'Silicon Valley' community; the little girl will (possibly) have to endure a rabies protocol treatment if they don't find the offending coyote.

I think they're mostly solitary, but if they ganged-up like wolves they'd be a real problem; they've largely prospered shadowing humans for garbage or whatever food-like stuff we leave hanging around.  There are quite a few roaming the (mostly empty) streets of San Francisco.

Bob

On 4/2/2020 7:36 AM, Neil Sherry via Shop-talk wrote:

This all seems alien to me – living in the UK we don’t such ready access to firearms – and even then basically only shotguns – and also because we generally don’t have such wildlife, so please excuse my naivety!

So, my thoughts are more along the lines of finding other ways to deal with the potential threat. Would a bear or coyote be really after a meal, rather than a fight? So could there be a solution involving food? Maybe it would create a bigger problem long term, but could a well-stocked bin or something at least be a diversion to buy time (to get out or get your weapon). Throw a bar of chocolate. Or a jar of honey!

Neil

 



--------------5CCED9DE8AE0D2281D716548-- --===============5329612100099943415== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============5329612100099943415==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 2 11:29:05 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD722A1811 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 11:29:05 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oi1-f181.google.com (unknown [209.85.167.181]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50175A1809 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 11:29:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-oi1-f181.google.com with SMTP id v134so3469354oie.11 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 10:29:00 -0700 (PDT) d=maracing-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=s2Dj5YoA44oeOlPkNkAMFmna8bPubVesvdJzw3x13OQ=; b=Ppy5E5iO6T5BWOEsFWmCPfmJL+UF1RikP79iooT+CATyfDEItGfG/TD6HSvtYAR5Yj V2ayr4HlF1N6eNd4U1cSjVEbme/O3POY5IJ6CGPd/NUmau+jbcUU1wcmdMT7yHtesLn4 22lojNwA2I+cAzv+j9uJtDmrzTfH3JjysVZpKotxy1JaSqxxcXF7EEynXVL3QHuWfXfa lNUJ68FeRNS7nWaxsAaWmNNfZ7ZcLF8t7GsD0gFK8U3Smoy2SKiCz1Zbw6NJKvuDTQTY EaUTCyyRAa1RuA7mQQn67WQs27Xk9QM6FC4Z35knTpXRU2sTVDWbtg9Q2GzRKkuUIVey fvmA== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=s2Dj5YoA44oeOlPkNkAMFmna8bPubVesvdJzw3x13OQ=; b=nuu0CS9yWcH2MFWY0sTJs5f/suelnBufKnWYX14f8qk+ai9Bcxm+5JRGhciybwd4A+ md8JpONnT743evzPqCjdz5773hwhaPUau2x9PIzegh3O+vEanH6JJNrnHForgEDXAd/4 u90xTPjONoyGQMBHCnoa7nvTQKdnwwT9CqFJZkKRTvh1UF2gnaHEcGbKsatABN1C5Doo xT1KQqByGsLMBAdJ4R3GzbWi4RT8+/0/qsuBy45hwvBUB0S/V8jKUFuGB2wvSCsjDQAs Y6tUOaiyRYei0H6Uioiz2zo97bXBZZB+nypkUhWGq+kzA+lRlwcH1pXvRTmbXGV7DgAr vNsA== 6Jcq1dAZuBJduA2bzcSaVjw1q8UrDTb1BlvxqnFfzH6c Thu, 02 Apr 2020 10:28:59 -0700 (PDT) References: <1031304452.38386.1585582490874@connect.xfinity.com> <00b701d608fc$1ec1da90$5c458fb0$@talktalk.net> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:28:53 -0400 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: Mark Andy via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============5129213777391028537== --000000000000d733de05a2522244 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Howdy, This seems a lot more like the time I bought a nice cordless chain saw to cut up the tree that fell down in my yard once. I.e. I probably wasn't going to need the saw after I cleaned up the tree and I could have just borrowed the neighbor's saw. But I wanted one and had a great excuse. :) I am struggling to picture the situation where a "big enough to be dangerous" wild animal comes into a noisy shop by choice. And even if said thing occurred, as others have mentioned I dunno what the heck 'regular' pistol calibers would do in terms of a bear. The idea of a half dozen air horns scattered around seems a hell of a lot more likely to actually help you. If you want a new pistol, just buy one. :) Mark On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 10:36 AM Neil Sherry via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > This all seems alien to me =E2=80=93 living in the UK we don=E2=80=99t su= ch ready access > to firearms =E2=80=93 and even then basically only shotguns =E2=80=93 and= also because we > generally don=E2=80=99t have such wildlife, so please excuse my naivety! > > So, my thoughts are more along the lines of finding other ways to deal > with the potential threat. Would a bear or coyote be really after a meal, > rather than a fight? So could there be a solution involving food? Maybe i= t > would create a bigger problem long term, but could a well-stocked bin or > something at least be a diversion to buy time (to get out or get your > weapon). Throw a bar of chocolate. Or a jar of honey! > > Neil > > > > *From:* Shop-talk *On Behalf Of *Tom > Jones via Shop-talk > *Sent:* 02 April 2020 15:06 > *Cc:* Philip Ethier via Shop-talk > *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked > here. > > > > There are a few things to consider. > > If a bear is your adversary, then a large caliber handgun is needed to ge= t > the penetration to stop their advancement. .357 magnum, 10 mm or 44 magnu= m, > or a .30 caliber rifle or 12ga shotgun with slugs. Anything less just ma= y > focus your adversary=E2=80=99s attention on you and really make them mad. > > Where are you most likely to be located when a visitor would appear and > where would your firearm be? Are you back to the door working at a bench > or machine tool, under a car lift or on the floor on a creeper? Will you = be > able to reach your firearm and access it before your visitor reaches you? > You don=E2=80=99t want them to corner you where you have no means of esca= pe. Access > will determine the type of secure storage you=E2=80=99ll need. Carrying i= s fine if > you use a good quality holster with retention and trigger protection. Not > sure how you would present the gun on a creeper under a car though. > > What direction would you most likely be firing? Towards your house or you= r > neighbors house? No matter what you chose to use, what=E2=80=99s behind y= our > potential target is your 2nd, hitting your target is the first and > biggest headache. > > Revolvers are fine and most can be had in stainless as well as shotguns > made for boating use. A lot of semi autos have stainless slides and > barrels. Yes, maintenance, cleaning and oiling will be necessary. Even > stainless firearms have carbon steel parts that need protected. > > A can of bear spray may provide enough of a diversion for your visitor so > you can get out of harms way. > > Hopefully you keep a cell phone or landline phone close, heaven forbid, > you have a run in and need help. > > It may be safer to close the door and find another means of fresh air and > ventilation. > > > > On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 3:54 PM Paul Parkanzky via Shop-talk < > shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > > I don't think a revolver is a poor choice but there's no way I'd store > an expensive revolver like that in the garage. > > I agree with other commenters that say that if he doesn't have any > intention of carrying the firearm that there's no reason to compromise > with a handgun. I'd choose either a cheap AR-pattern rifle or an > inexpensive shotgun in one of Hornady's rapidsafe wall mounts or a > similar secured wall mount. > > -Paul > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 10:50 AM Thomas FitzGibbon via Shop-talk > wrote: > > > > Eric, > > > > I second the stainless steel revolver recommendation, maybe a Colt > Python in .357 magnum. I'd be concerned that a semi-auto would be more > sensitive to that kind of environment, but either way it should not be to= o > challenging. Desiccant packs are going to be critical, especially to > protect the ammo as the gun itself should be OK with a light coat of oil. > > > > Good luck. > > > > Tom > > > > On March 29, 2020 at 8:38 PM Philip Ethier via Shop-talk < > shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > > > > I'd recommend a stainless double-action revolver, attached to your > person in a holster designed to make it impossible for the cylinder to > revolve until the weapon is removed from the holster. > > > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 12:58 PM eric--- via Shop-talk < > shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > > > > Ok, I know I've asked some weird questions before, but I think this one > will take the cake. > > > > I live out in the country, and often work well into the night with a > large shop door open. With having bears, coyotes and other large animals > in the area, I got to thinking, it might be a good idea to keep a pistol = in > the garage to scare off any would be 'late night snackers." > > Actually, I had a run-in the other night that made me think about this. > > > > So my question is, if I have a pistol, in a rapid access safe in a shop > environment, what factors should I consider? I understand that humidity > will play a huge role, as will dust (I have to see how 'sealed' the safe > is.) > > > > Is there anything I'm missing that I should consider? I understand tha= t > I will most likely have to clean the weapon often, but is there anything = I > need to think about? > > > > Also, I'm open to suggestions for a weapon type. I thinking an XD-M > elite polymer hand gun. With mostly composite parts. Similar to a Glock= . > (Note, I don't have anything against Glock, I just never owned one. I do > have and love my XD however, so Glock isn't out of consideration.) > > > > I don't want this to turn into a 2nd amendment thread. Just a 'what to > consider' for leaving a pistol in a shop. > > > > Note, in my shop I do just about everything, metal work, wood work, car > and heavy equipment work, etc. > > > > Thanks in advance. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/t.w.jones1@gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka@maracing.com > > --000000000000d733de05a2522244 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Howdy,

This seems a lot more like the t= ime I bought a nice cordless chain saw=C2=A0to cut up the tree that fell do= wn in my yard once.

I.e. I probably wasn't going to need the saw= after I cleaned up the tree and I could have just borrowed the neighbor= 9;s saw.=C2=A0 But I wanted one and had a great excuse.

:)

I = am struggling to picture the situation where a "big enough to be dange= rous" wild animal comes into a noisy shop by choice.=C2=A0 And even if= said thing occurred, as others have mentioned I dunno what the heck 'r= egular' pistol calibers would do in terms of a bear.=C2=A0 The idea of = a half dozen air horns scattered around seems a hell of a lot more likely t= o actually help you.

If you want a new pistol, just buy one.=C2=A0 := )

Mark

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 10:36 AM Neil Sherry via Shop-tal= k <shop-talk@autox.team.net<= /a>> wrote:
<= div lang=3D"EN-GB">
=

This all seems alien to me =E2=80=93 living in= the UK we don=E2=80=99t such ready access to firearms =E2=80=93 and even t= hen basically only shotguns =E2=80=93 and also because we generally don=E2= =80=99t have such wildlife, so please excuse my naivety!

So, my thoughts are more along the lines= of finding other ways to deal with the potential threat. Would a bear or c= oyote be really after a meal, rather than a fight? So could there be a solu= tion involving food? Maybe it would create a bigger problem long term, but = could a well-stocked bin or something at least be a diversion to buy time (= to get out or get your weapon). Throw a bar of chocolate. Or a jar of honey= !

Neil

=C2=A0

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of T= om Jones via Shop-talk
Sent: 02 April 2020 15:06
Cc: Ph= ilip Ethier via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [S= hop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here.=

=C2=A0

There are a few things to consider.<= u>

If a bear is your ad= versary, then a large caliber handgun is needed to get the penetration to s= top their advancement. .357 magnum, 10 mm or 44 magnum, or a .30 caliber ri= fle or 12ga shotgun with slugs.=C2=A0 Anything less just may focus your adv= ersary=E2=80=99s attention on you and really make them mad.

Where are you most likely to= be located when a visitor would appear and where would your firearm be?=C2= =A0 Are you back to the door working at a bench or machine tool, under a ca= r lift or on the floor on a creeper? Will you be able to reach your firearm= and access it before your visitor reaches you? You don=E2=80=99t want them= to corner you where you have no means of escape. Access will determine the= type of secure storage you=E2=80=99ll need. Carrying is fine if you use a = good quality holster with retention and trigger protection. Not sure how yo= u would present the gun on a creeper under a car though.

What direction would you most l= ikely be firing? Towards your house or your neighbors house? No matter what= you chose to use, what=E2=80=99s behind your potential target is your 2nd, hitting your target is the first and biggest headache.

Revolvers are fine an= d most can be had in stainless as well as shotguns made for boating use. A = lot of semi autos have stainless slides and barrels. Yes, maintenance, clea= ning and oiling will be necessary. Even stainless firearms have carbon stee= l parts that need protected.

A can of bear spray may provide enough of a diversion for y= our visitor so you can get out of harms way.

Hopefully you keep a cell phone or landline= phone close, heaven forbid, you have a run in and need help.=

It may be safer to close t= he door and find another means of fresh air and ventilation.<= /span>

=C2=A0

<= div>

On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 3:54 PM Paul Parkanzky vi= a Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:

I don'= ;t think a revolver is a poor choice but there's no way I'd storean expensive revolver like that in the garage.

I agree with other = commenters that say that if he doesn't have any
intention of carryin= g the firearm that there's no reason to compromise
with a handgun. I= 'd choose either a cheap AR-pattern rifle or an
inexpensive shotgun = in one of Hornady's rapidsafe wall mounts or a
similar secured wall = mount.

-Paul

On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 10:50 AM Thomas FitzGibb= on via Shop-talk
<shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> Eric,>
> I second the stainless steel revolver recommendation, maybe = a Colt Python in .357 magnum.=C2=A0 I'd be concerned that a semi-auto w= ould be more sensitive to that kind of environment, but either way it shoul= d not be too challenging.=C2=A0 Desiccant packs are going to be critical, e= specially to protect the ammo as the gun itself should be OK with a light c= oat of oil.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Tom
>
> = On March 29, 2020 at 8:38 PM Philip Ethier via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> I'd recommend a stainless double-action re= volver, attached to your person in a holster designed to make it impossible= for the cylinder to revolve until the weapon is removed from the holster.<= br>>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 12:58 PM eric--- vi= a Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> Ok, I know I= 9;ve asked some weird questions before, but I think this one will take the = cake.
>
> I live out in the country, and often work well into t= he night with a large shop door open.=C2=A0 With having bears, coyotes and = other large animals in the area, I got to thinking, it might be a good idea= to keep a pistol in the garage to scare off any would be 'late night s= nackers."
> Actually, I had a run-in the other night that made m= e think about this.
>
> So my question is, if I have a pistol, = in a rapid access safe in a shop environment, what factors should I conside= r?=C2=A0 I understand that humidity will play a huge role, as will dust (I = have to see how 'sealed' the safe is.)
>
> Is there any= thing I'm missing that I should consider?=C2=A0 I understand that I wil= l most likely have to clean the weapon often, but is there anything I need = to think about?
>
> Also, I'm open to suggestions for a wea= pon type.=C2=A0 I thinking an XD-M elite polymer hand gun.=C2=A0 With mostl= y composite parts.=C2=A0 Similar to a Glock.=C2=A0 (Note, I don't have = anything against Glock, I just never owned one.=C2=A0 I do have and love my= XD however, so Glock isn't out of consideration.)
>
> I do= n't want this to turn into a 2nd amendment thread.=C2=A0 Just a 'wh= at to consider' for leaving a pistol in a shop.
>
> Note, i= n my shop I do just about everything, metal work, wood work, car and heavy = equipment work, etc.
>
> Thanks in advance.
________________= _______________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/= donate.html
Suggested annual donation=C2=A0 $12.96
Archive: http://www= .team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Man= age: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-tal= k/t.w.jones1@gmail.com

= _______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/marka@maracing.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.t= eam.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka@maracing.com

--000000000000d733de05a2522244-- --===============5129213777391028537== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============5129213777391028537==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 2 13:21:17 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0044A184D for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:21:17 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from p-impout001.msg.pkvw.co.charter.net (unknown [47.43.26.141]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11BE2A1442 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:21:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from RYPC ([172.248.153.253]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id K5OojxCt2vUY1K5OojUd2k; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 19:21:10 +0000 a=qZdJX8rkFm4y5TzLCyaqOg==:117 a=qZdJX8rkFm4y5TzLCyaqOg==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=PKsAzlM5zVSABdU0yHgA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 To: "'Mark Andy'" References: <1031304452.38386.1585582490874@connect.xfinity.com> <00b701d608fc$1ec1da90$5c458fb0$@talktalk.net> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 12:14:03 -0700 Thread-Index: AdYJFDgloYvaOrZtS/6mL4+9TCGagAADiTyg Yv5hcRrfA3hcOl+YYMIlX8/wN0/q8pZsRr+bvLgRNXVsRQKovLuK2O3BPVJIqx9e7N5gqCZTGXJFMZ61KJtQXofPXJQnLEAOucw= Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: Randall via Shop-talk Cc: 'Shop-talk' Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > I am struggling to picture the situation where a "big enough > to be dangerous" wild animal comes into a noisy shop by > choice. Ever hear of rabies ? Just like people, wild animals aren't always rational. -- Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 2 13:29:40 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA3D6A125E for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:29:40 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oi1-f169.google.com (unknown [209.85.167.169]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 355C7A1264 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:29:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-oi1-f169.google.com with SMTP id k5so3849916oiw.10 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 12:29:38 -0700 (PDT) d=maracing-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Afgu9Re3gRxTaB8jZGO+LNprXK1PqSgm+bYkPEaltU4=; b=ceF8qfZfzSQjhfv5E1lWDPm5uqJLK8NvU926WL33RYL77ssMiIxyTWkcGb0MI4ponD AuxZAPpw30KzkpIyTSDWq6D4tuJJAe+pkfH1H0wYFdTf4KiyFn5Ux5M7RlV1Y/h6mmm+ LYw/esduOSjow744aaGcNQWXQeFU7TEkGRPDqND1oE2vWOPXQf0XWh9HpLvky3GQVML8 c/gQqm8Uw1pwr2qHHkRvVBKWnabb3xijYpMfUYToBLq1lvirZe+HnpcATnwMu+27Ru+M eYRCp/nRg8MdMR9qb+TJsKRm2nBAI37ztYUYZk6Gg8rJH55ch1ipNWRoPgxM2xQB6k6H yZEw== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Afgu9Re3gRxTaB8jZGO+LNprXK1PqSgm+bYkPEaltU4=; b=pt+G1+Aa0IXxshDhUmsGLeTXlDY5Fj90Dm2MTl7ttv/jilywCfJ3re+YADPByMOoBg 2jzS6njFLMf2TJOUFywAE0JOnF8QM1706qheb48VtfdwZdyO9q6ackx4s3hOqGR1ahV/ BlbooNRgXqta4+W5Pg3iE37UuQ0XoIt6oCAa011gJ4lHZ5FLwmeZ0xH3vNoPsIyj8iOX rl+EnhiuO9hkd4YhOesxvPILIM8SHhfPT0gJ62LLslp6JkjdwLKuZjg0Q2Klj+HwUwsi qm1TyGgMIyISVM1VDWmB+v3es9Ltm1l8xFa9KEttajGh66ZrFbMNEvDZlpSBppnV020c gU+A== EYXdnjpewP7hV+kZ08SDnrVQXi0N5hVKzgmEwBf2+w== Thu, 02 Apr 2020 12:29:37 -0700 (PDT) References: <1031304452.38386.1585582490874@connect.xfinity.com> <00b701d608fc$1ec1da90$5c458fb0$@talktalk.net> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 15:29:26 -0400 To: Randall Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: Mark Andy via Shop-talk Cc: Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============6094782918318653213== --00000000000048af2105a253d26f Howdy, I've heard of people slipping and killing themselves in the bathtub too, but I still don't spend a lot of time worrying about it when I take a shower. I think you're hell of a lot more likely to accidentally shoot yourself carrying a gun working on cars than you are to need said gun to ward off bears with rabies. If you want to buy a cool gun, buy a cool gun. Don't dress it up in a bunch of BS. Mark On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 3:21 PM Randall wrote: > > > I am struggling to picture the situation where a "big enough > > to be dangerous" wild animal comes into a noisy shop by > > choice. > > Ever hear of rabies ? Just like people, wild animals aren't always > rational. > > -- Randall > > --00000000000048af2105a253d26f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Howdy,

I've heard of people slippin= g and killing themselves in the bathtub too, but I still don't spend a = lot of time worrying about it when I take a shower.

I think you'= re hell of a lot more likely to accidentally shoot yourself carrying a gun = working on cars than you are to need said gun to ward off bears with rabies= .

If you want to buy a cool gun, buy a cool gun.=C2=A0 Don't dre= ss it up in a bunch of BS.

Mark

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 3:21 PM = Randall <TR3driver@ca.rr.com&= gt; wrote:

> I am struggling to picture the situation where a "big enough
> to be dangerous" wild animal comes into a noisy shop by
> choice.=C2=A0

Ever hear of rabies ?=C2=A0 Just like people, wild animals aren't alway= s
rational.

-- Randall

--00000000000048af2105a253d26f-- --===============6094782918318653213== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============6094782918318653213==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 2 13:54:22 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6285A18F3 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:54:22 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from p-impout001.msg.pkvw.co.charter.net (unknown [47.43.26.140]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8348AA17EC for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:52:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from RYPC ([172.248.153.253]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id K5tFj3fV3Uue7K5tFjnwIv; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 19:52:38 +0000 a=qZdJX8rkFm4y5TzLCyaqOg==:117 a=qZdJX8rkFm4y5TzLCyaqOg==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=22E-DRHjNL3hR0z_YF4A:9 a=3JSI0-AoDVT6GRTA:21 a=0W_3DuhkigGH--h0:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 To: "'Mark Andy'" References: <1031304452.38386.1585582490874@connect.xfinity.com> <00b701d608fc$1ec1da90$5c458fb0$@talktalk.net> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 12:45:30 -0700 Thread-Index: AdYJJQz3m5nbLmowQk+so/h2CLFvSwAAFYZA OTRV8dT+aqYgZi7rl4HxqznwUlfXIh/Apo33sN6uK8g3hUVlcd9YfGOUldf3YECPrsxMHJiUs7hZGCo7h2uN5H1np7YGG4/ksA0= Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: Randall via Shop-talk Cc: 'Shop-talk' Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > I've heard of people slipping and killing themselves in the > bathtub too, but I still don't spend a lot of time worrying > about it when I take a shower. Your choice, for sure. My great-aunt broke her hip that way; and oddly enough there are handrails in my shower. That's my choice. These days, I even wear eye protection in the shop. Still don't spend a lot of time worrying about it, just do it. -- Randall _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 2 14:52:20 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D70F0A170E for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 14:52:20 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta11.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (unknown [167.206.4.220]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87943A16B3 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 14:52:14 -0600 (MDT) bh=ZjH3l4yu2KKVTPrec6jPdEhL4cEMoV6OBGAtMVUtLH8=; h=Message-ID:Date:To:From:Subject; b=kq9b7qvrqzHHPh0Yxc91e7p9ae/BwvAeZ75h6U7WY4KATh+ksOrrvftFeyZuwF1Vr J4oAehsG3O3wxZL/GA3hQ7JIDB0kbess6cN74L4QBkbZL57vWa4ScqAkQaFE9qU5Fg 82QP54D2YWxUM6At+7SmkpPMyL6BXgrvjm87uVnc3zYszesyyblRlj7+i66gqeNkry nTPWcZf9umpBqpTCWJ+bUn91d82bf4JFRxi7yWoZXy5lFGIKuygIZooUcDiWe4wE69 8R2uy1BaPH+a7dV5M2pYA3+eZyEDXk0VuJ1Rj8r2G5hFIBzzXyKpp7MeLWtyE8ote2 W3ArynSmdGcGA== Authentication-Results: mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net smtp.user=strovato; auth=pass (LOGIN) a=IBeqreNX0NbDiaMtWAF5wQ==:117 a=IBeqreNX0NbDiaMtWAF5wQ==:17 a=HpEJnUlJZJkA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=e9aWQsP_AAAA:8 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=xRfjoxBpAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=DBIlf9M4wCJGVUKIEB0A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=m3MdUl94G8cA:10 a=AFbCALNfWwHedvDva260:22 a=GGGinmgZRQXmVEG1E52S:22 a=4plUlNce3Gdv3FjnGo9M:22 Received: from [67.83.27.177] ([67.83.27.177:57121] helo=Steve-PC.optonline.net) by mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.9.48312 r(Core:3.6.9.0)) with ESMTPA id 52/E5-07714-E70568E5; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 16:52:14 -0400 Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 16:47:51 -0400 To: 'Shop-talk' Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: Steven Trovato via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I realize that this is not what this exchange is really about, but it got me wondering about rabies in bears. Apparently it is possible, but very rare. According to humanesociety.org: People have little to fear in terms of catching diseases or parasites from bears. As warm-blooded animals, bears can get rabies, but it is very rare. There are no known cases of a person catching rabies from a bear. -Steve T. At 03:14 PM 4/2/2020, Randall via Shop-talk wrote: > > I am struggling to picture the situation where a "big enough > > to be dangerous" wild animal comes into a noisy shop by > > choice. > >Ever hear of rabies ? Just like people, wild animals aren't always >rational. > >-- Randall > >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk@autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/strovato@optonline.net -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 2 15:27:36 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D116A1142 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 15:27:36 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net (unknown [69.252.207.43]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B44CA113B for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 15:27:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.104]) by resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id K775jzNgqHlRVK7Mkj1E9D; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 21:27:10 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1585862830; bh=005wgEPVJXqqUhMCj9gle1rjbxJUoDNATf19VZ/iKFc=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=C0JswetApyiRBwYyAN4oZiYUc0GVup4a/eg+VJbCpp2iuOlthXnrJBOuVYyBINSc/ oxLYYbvGcBaMSB0EyvtZ/ETl5i6s8iVdDlpmuEJ7xHjXnMV/+lvYh4HkW7SvEPQh2H QxyN//0WC5sH96Wiy1GHXCKOrHg2cgo3kj1WcQ28atgoPZDaI9iFrst8dFCmet91Xp ngOWKYS4MjgcVizyxQ26nc3an+hap7LaF41ELSDkAnl+3o3oUJoBO4EI3rnyVpSfWP dsCCkBbqNVzIrsFCsQyJkLOruugzjPfOf7l5eRZsb3UhudUIeXuDLSHkA4gG6VZl/z i/+gd8AYlcANA== Received: from [10.0.0.150] ([98.242.38.177]) by resomta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id K7MZjq9e8Gi8AK7MdjEH7D; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 21:27:04 +0000 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <52.E5.07714.E70568E5@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 14:26:39 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: Bob Spidell via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net cmU6ICJQZW9wbGUgaGF2ZSBsaXR0bGUgdG8gZmVhciBpbiB0ZXJtcyBvZiBjYXRjaGluZyBkaXNl YXNlcyBvciAKcGFyYXNpdGVzIGZyb20gYmVhcnMiCgpNYXliZSBiZWNhdXNlIHNjYW50IGZldyBw ZW9wbGUgc3Vydml2ZSBlbmNvdW50ZXJzIHdpdGggYmVhcnMgbG9uZyBlbm91Z2ggCnRvIHNob3cg c3ltcHRvbXM/CgoKT24gNC8yLzIwMjAgMTo0NyBQTSwgU3RldmVuIFRyb3ZhdG8gdmlhIFNob3At dGFsayB3cm90ZToKPiBJIHJlYWxpemUgdGhhdCB0aGlzIGlzIG5vdCB3aGF0IHRoaXMgZXhjaGFu Z2UgaXMgcmVhbGx5IGFib3V0LCBidXQgaXQgCj4gZ290IG1lIHdvbmRlcmluZyBhYm91dCByYWJp ZXMgaW4gYmVhcnMuwqAgQXBwYXJlbnRseSBpdCBpcyBwb3NzaWJsZSwgCj4gYnV0IHZlcnkgcmFy ZS7CoCBBY2NvcmRpbmcgdG8gaHVtYW5lc29jaWV0eS5vcmc6wqAgUGVvcGxlIGhhdmUgbGl0dGxl IHRvIAo+IGZlYXIgaW4gdGVybXMgb2YgY2F0Y2hpbmcgZGlzZWFzZXMgb3IgcGFyYXNpdGVzIGZy b20gYmVhcnMuIEFzIAo+IHdhcm0tYmxvb2RlZCBhbmltYWxzLCBiZWFycyBjYW4gZ2V0IHJhYmll cywgYnV0IGl0IGlzIHZlcnkgcmFyZS4gVGhlcmUgCj4gYXJlIG5vIGtub3duIGNhc2VzIG9mIGEg cGVyc29uIGNhdGNoaW5nIHJhYmllcyBmcm9tIGEgYmVhci4KPgo+IC1TdGV2ZSBULgo+Cj4gQXQg MDM6MTQgUE0gNC8yLzIwMjAsIFJhbmRhbGwgdmlhIFNob3AtdGFsayB3cm90ZToKPgo+PiA+IEkg YW0gc3RydWdnbGluZyB0byBwaWN0dXJlIHRoZSBzaXR1YXRpb24gd2hlcmUgYSAiYmlnIGVub3Vn aAo+PiA+IHRvIGJlIGRhbmdlcm91cyIgd2lsZCBhbmltYWwgY29tZXMgaW50byBhIG5vaXN5IHNo b3AgYnkKPj4gPiBjaG9pY2UuCj4+Cj4+IEV2ZXIgaGVhciBvZiByYWJpZXMgP8KgIEp1c3QgbGlr ZSBwZW9wbGUsIHdpbGQgYW5pbWFscyBhcmVuJ3QgYWx3YXlzCj4+IHJhdGlvbmFsLgo+Pgo+PiAt LSBSYW5kYWxsCj4+Cj4KPgoKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX18KClNob3AtdGFsa0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldApEb25hdGU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVh bS5uZXQvZG9uYXRlLmh0bWwKU3VnZ2VzdGVkIGFubnVhbCBkb25hdGlvbiAgJDEyLjk2CkFyY2hp dmU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvcGlwZXJtYWlsL3Nob3AtdGFsayBodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gu dGVhbS5uZXQvYXJjaGl2ZQoKVW5zdWJzY3JpYmUvTWFuYWdlOiBodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gudGVhbS5u ZXQvbWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL3Nob3AtdGFsay9taGFyY0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldAoK From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 2 15:45:11 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9801DA0EDD for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 15:45:11 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-lf1-f52.google.com (unknown [209.85.167.52]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49DB2A0C0E for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 15:38:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-lf1-f52.google.com with SMTP id f8so2671630lfe.12 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 14:38:57 -0700 (PDT) d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=kY7tLbbjWKtyCte9dThkRxxEklqMEa5NaIGk4hh6apY=; b=NJQBdnS4ssdJdxfvf9XrQ/SLZzcU9HgEIROjZD4drAcKtzn+bMuHwdDO8nwJGRF1xK js4ggCpt86/m23llXhgvdF2RxUY0TRft5LSb3WPT4bWWvEeCKH64wAaDdvlI5DVH9pkB +GV74P3ZiW8SNHCuBFflyEiPjpS9j3RSvuazZK3A72NSdIPIonihXAOVEbZKlu9N01Hn i/0kM4mdyzz63Ttgzd/M1lx1kHF0pl6MiF8u96D9pmgtbI5LS5EL8LiFiJe6sR5ju0uk RcHlm16QhijcOwJJJm6/0UEseQ7Gid8FwVWFh551qyv4OsrrFgCCVD8t+jPhL8RWsSuI r+1w== mosnTJNQiB9fM1CIffrN6P5DMplmfjvtWBIHaZo= Thu, 02 Apr 2020 14:38:56 -0700 (PDT) References: <52.E5.07714.E70568E5@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 14:38:06 -0700 To: Steven Trovato Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: Miq Millman via Shop-talk Cc: Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============7878866423963833053== --000000000000bcff3605a255a049 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's probably because in order to catch rabies from a bear bite, you 'd have to survive the bear attack. Survival rate from a bear attack seems to vary, but it's not very good. Bear attacks are pretty rare in and of themselves (chances are about 1 in 2ish million), plus there have been less than half a dozen cases of rabies in bears in the last 20 years. # OF DEATHS IN THE UNITED STATES PER YEAR Cause of death =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80= =A6 # dead Cardiovascular disease =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.. 856,030 Transportation accidents ...=E2=80=A6. 48,441 COVID-19...................................4520*** Drowning =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2= =80=A6=E2=80=A6.. 3,582 Hypothermia =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6..=E2=80= =A6=E2=80=A6699 West Nile virus =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6..=E2=80=A6.. = 119 Hornet/bee/wasp stings =E2=80=A6......... 48.5 Snake bites =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.=E2=80= =A6.=E2=80=A6.. 5.2 Bear attacks =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.............=E2=80=A6.. 2 ***so far Eric, maybe just stop eating bacon in the shop, that will save you from heart disease and keep the bears away. -- __ Miq Millman miq@bigllama.com Tualatin, OR Big Llama Productions Virus-free. www.avast.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 1:47 PM Steven Trovato via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > I realize that this is not what this exchange is really about, but it > got me wondering about rabies in bears. Apparently it is possible, > but very rare. According to humanesociety.org: People have little > to fear in terms of catching diseases or parasites from bears. As > warm-blooded animals, bears can get rabies, but it is very rare. > There are no known cases of a person catching rabies from a bear. > > -Steve T. > > At 03:14 PM 4/2/2020, Randall via Shop-talk wrote: > > > > I am struggling to picture the situation where a "big enough > > > to be dangerous" wild animal comes into a noisy shop by > > > choice. > > > >Ever hear of rabies ? Just like people, wild animals aren't always > >rational. > > > >-- Randall > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >Shop-talk@autox.team.net > >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > >Suggested annual donation $12.96 > >Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > > >Unsubscribe/Manage: > >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/strovato@optonline.net > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/miq@bigllama.com > > > --000000000000bcff3605a255a049 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That's probably because in order to catch rabies from = a bear bite, you 'd have to survive the bear attack.=C2=A0 Survival rat= e from a bear attack seems to vary, but it's not very good.=C2=A0 Bear = attacks=C2=A0are pretty rare in and of themselves (chances are about 1 in 2= ish million), plus there have been less than half a dozen cases of rabies i= n bears in the last 20 years.=C2=A0=C2=A0

# OF DEATHS IN= THE UNITED STATES PER YEAR

Cause of death =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80= =A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6 # dead
Cardiovascular disease = =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.. 856,030
Transportation accidents ...=E2=80=A6. 48,4= 41
COVID-19...................................4520***=C2=A0 =C2= =A0=C2=A0
Drowning =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80= =A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.. 3,582
Hypothermia =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2= =80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6..=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6699
West Nile virus= =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6..=E2=80=A6.. 119
Hornet/b= ee/wasp stings =E2=80=A6......... 48.5
Snake bites =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2= =80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.=E2=80=A6.=E2=80=A6.. 5.2
Bear attacks= =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.............=E2=80=A6.. 2
<= br>

***so far

Eric, maybe= just stop eating bacon in the shop, that will save you from heart disease = and keep the bears away.

--
__
Mi= q Millman=C2=A0=C2=A0 miq@bigllama.com
Tualatin, OR=C2=A0 Big Llama Productions
=


3D"" Virus-free. www.avast.com

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 1:47 PM Steven Trovato via Shop-talk <= ;shop-talk@autox.team.net&g= t; wrote:
I real= ize that this is not what this exchange is really about, but it
got me wondering about rabies in bears.=C2=A0 Apparently it is possible, but very rare.=C2=A0 According to humanesociety.org:=C2=A0 People have = little
to fear in terms of catching diseases or parasites from bears. As
warm-blooded animals, bears can get rabies, but it is very rare.
There are no known cases of a person catching rabies from a bear.

-Steve T.

At 03:14 PM 4/2/2020, Randall via Shop-talk wrote:

> > I am struggling to picture the situation where a "big enough=
> > to be dangerous" wild animal comes into a noisy shop by
> > choice.
>
>Ever hear of rabies ?=C2=A0 Just like people, wild animals aren't a= lways
>rational.
>
>-- Randall
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>Shop-talk= @autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation=C2=A0 $12.96
>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive
>
>Unsubscribe/Manage:
>http://autox.team.net/mail= man/options/shop-talk/strovato@optonline.net


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et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/miq@bigllama.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.tea= m.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/miq@bigllama.com


--000000000000bcff3605a255a049-- --===============7878866423963833053== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7878866423963833053==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 2 15:45:23 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9A6CA0F79 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 15:45:23 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (unknown [167.206.4.205]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 347F0A0DBC for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 15:40:14 -0600 (MDT) bh=5vpAIz/M12XRY7+BYAvkhNUX0QqpZR3DZoGbwfhFgf4=; h=Message-ID:Date:To:From:Subject; b=GfyE41/gkbr9V9EjcsHrb2+6D98MJ7wxchogTyGRZXDBjdLDYswuUqy9FZ9q4PjPz KpykMIPRY6Iozzfe8U6VXGhouZFlB/LpR8wouuZp5NSdZ08M4P2Cemd5Ep2+sHqDiS ay518tp8V4qSSxosW6UQd4m5nAuVIwvUchwTssRP00zdrOA9UMAfVr+T3dwU7UEtaR rAE1BEDu8Tvf5YOW18xnelcRt/CLnz+VLGjMdsnNwkkjM4Q/fTkiSoLGDAMofy0cGd 1Qmb8s2fTxbVy9pBMiunbc4+bO6t1cy0rrOiuvCHSvII9jIwsFsVkD1LEnhXjcsa2c 04RLbcSTzcNuA== Authentication-Results: mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net smtp.user=strovato; auth=pass (LOGIN) a=IBeqreNX0NbDiaMtWAF5wQ==:117 a=IBeqreNX0NbDiaMtWAF5wQ==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=HpEJnUlJZJkA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=e9aWQsP_AAAA:8 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=xRfjoxBpAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=aw7pT8VACJ9p4EFlZOEA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=m3MdUl94G8cA:10 a=AFbCALNfWwHedvDva260:22 a=GGGinmgZRQXmVEG1E52S:22 a=4plUlNce3Gdv3FjnGo9M:22 Received: from [67.83.27.177] ([67.83.27.177:52308] helo=Steve-PC.optonline.net) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.9.48312 r(Core:3.6.9.0)) with ESMTPA id 90/59-09282-DBB568E5; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 17:40:13 -0400 Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 17:36:43 -0400 To: Bob Spidell ,shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <52.E5.07714.E70568E5@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: Steven Trovato via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Seems like most of the risk situations I read = about were when people encountered dead bears and = hunters, which is kind of the same thing. -Steve T. At 05:26 PM 4/2/2020, Bob Spidell via Shop-talk wrote: >Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64re: "People = >have little to fear in terms of catching diseases or >parasites from bears" > >Maybe because scant few people survive = >encounters with bears long enough to show symptoms=82=82=93=DB=88 >=CC=8B=CC=8C=8CN=8D >=C8K=DD]=99[=88=9B=DD=98]=C8=9AXH=DA=DC@talk wrote: >>I realize that this is not what this exchange = >>is really about, but it got me wondering about = >>rabies in bears. Apparently it is possible, = >>but very rare. According to humanesociety.org: People have little to >=99X\=88[=88\=9B\=C8=D9=88=D8]=DA[=99=C8\=D9X\=D9\=C8=DC=88\=98\=DA]\=C8= =9C=80om bears. As = >=D8\=9BKX=9B=DB=D9Y[=9A[X[=CB=99X\=9C=C8=D8[=88=D9]=98X=9AY@s, but it is v= ery rare. There >>are no known cases of a person catching rabies from a bear. >T=DD]=99H=82=80=A3=E2B03:14 PM 4/2/2020, Randall via Shop-talk wrote: >=88=92am struggling to picture the situation where a "big enough >=88F=F2&RF=E6vW&=F7W2"v=AD=C6B=E6=AD=D6=C26=F6=D6W2=AD=E7F=F2=E6=F6=977=92= 6=80op by >>> > choice. >>=8F=82WfW"=86V"=F6b&&=ADW2=FC*=A7W7B=C6=AD=B0e people, wild animals aren'= t always >>=98][=DB=98[=82=83=E0 =F8=80=B4- Randall >>=8F=82=8F=82=82=97=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7= =D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=D7=C0________ > >Shop-talk@autox.team.net >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arc= hive > >Unsubscribe/Manage: = >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/strovato@optonline.net -- = This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch= ive utox.team.net From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 2 16:31:42 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E751AA1242 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 16:31:42 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-09v.sys.comcast.net (unknown [69.252.207.41]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7FF5A1235 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 16:31:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-01v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.97]) by resqmta-ch2-09v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id K88xjOvPadWWZK8N6j3hCF; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 22:31:36 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1585866696; bh=/iwtcWf0z9nA2BKTcNAs23BboYqGCUipTIDspfQuYig=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=q/LlozoJzBuJvL4zAe5o6Mg9ji+YIr0hFdAL4uJxiYYXE/7ISfuKtcnuTsiWWtwpu qWT/WJKBsYkL/vytalJuitij6v3g9VEIGPyV+awseZMjZUtMKl49+XwFdNN2GnDSWV iebrIdyVUhHHUswfuLXDs6IAaQIBaw6/tyYozDnyTEtYjDpms4/UEJRXviCWjE8Dt9 zNWdgAuOdWc3HZHZR3hCZFq9/D9/yW1OYZCB7Q0WsMZU4JIZI0jFSARX6cY/pPn6RZ arG43Q/W/4ED/uRqyFyvUiGkvh6UD/yXodWDDfJiZ393ovqEA0MeQBLxcjkH0OxND+ DHI/TkRh8ZqhA== Received: from [10.0.0.150] ([98.242.38.177]) by resomta-ch2-01v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id K8MyjdbbeyB3rK8MzjrQht; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 22:31:30 +0000 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <52.E5.07714.E70568E5@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 15:31:28 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: Bob Spidell via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============4505999427823577574== boundary="------------27CF3814924A70AC1D0B19C1" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------27CF3814924A70AC1D0B19C1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There was a photo going around years ago showing (what was left) of a guy who was killed by a bear, but not before he emptied a .38 revolver into the bear.  It was pretty gruesome,  the bear ripped him open and ate all his organs (but, surprisingly, left his junk). Rangers killed the bear and verified it was the culprit from stomach contents. So, if bears are a worry something more substantial than a .38 (dunno if it was a 'special') is called-for. On 4/2/2020 2:38 PM, Miq Millman via Shop-talk wrote: > That's probably because in order to catch rabies from a bear bite, you > 'd have to survive the bear attack. Survival rate from a bear attack > seems to vary, but it's not very good.  Bear attacks are pretty rare > in and of themselves (chances are about 1 in 2ish million), plus there > have been less than half a dozen cases of rabies in bears in the last > 20 years. > > # OF DEATHS IN THE UNITED STATES PER YEAR > > Cause of death ………………… # dead > Cardiovascular disease …….. 856,030 > Transportation accidents ...…. 48,441 > COVID-19...................................4520*** > Drowning ……………………….. 3,582 > Hypothermia ………………..……699 > West Nile virus ……………..….. 119 > Hornet/bee/wasp stings …......... 48.5 > Snake bites ……………….….….. 5.2 > Bear attacks ………….............….. 2 > > > ***so far > > Eric, maybe just stop eating bacon in the shop, that will save you > from heart disease and keep the bears away. > > -- > __ > Tualatin, OR  Big Llama Productions > --------------27CF3814924A70AC1D0B19C1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There was a photo going around years ago showing (what was left) of a guy who was killed by a bear, but not before he emptied a .38 revolver into the bear.  It was pretty gruesome,  the bear ripped him open and ate all his organs (but, surprisingly, left his junk).  Rangers killed the bear and verified it was the culprit from stomach contents.

So, if bears are a worry something more substantial than a .38 (dunno if it was a 'special') is called-for.


On 4/2/2020 2:38 PM, Miq Millman via Shop-talk wrote:
That's probably because in order to catch rabies from a bear bite, you 'd have to survive the bear attack.  Survival rate from a bear attack seems to vary, but it's not very good.  Bear attacks are pretty rare in and of themselves (chances are about 1 in 2ish million), plus there have been less than half a dozen cases of rabies in bears in the last 20 years.  

# OF DEATHS IN THE UNITED STATES PER YEAR

Cause of death ………………… # dead
Cardiovascular disease …….. 856,030
Transportation accidents ...…. 48,441
COVID-19...................................4520***    
Drowning ……………………….. 3,582
Hypothermia ………………..……699
West Nile virus ……………..….. 119
Hornet/bee/wasp stings …......... 48.5
Snake bites ……………….….….. 5.2
Bear attacks ………….............….. 2


***so far

Eric, maybe just stop eating bacon in the shop, that will save you from heart disease and keep the bears away.

--
__
Miq Millman   miq@bigllama.com
Tualatin, OR  Big Llama Productions


--------------27CF3814924A70AC1D0B19C1-- --===============4505999427823577574== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============4505999427823577574==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 2 17:03:00 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 283F7A1796 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 17:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from Deep13.mail.Megageek.com (unknown [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC365A0E8F for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 16:55:25 -0600 (MDT) References: <52.E5.07714.E70568E5@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net type=4; name=$KeepSent Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 18:55:24 -0400 04/02/2020 06:55:25 PM, Serialize complete at 04/02/2020 06:55:25 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirdest shop related question asked here. From: eric--- via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============7226490973900302008== This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 007DECF08525853E_= Miq writes- >Eric, maybe just stop eating bacon in the shop, that will save you from heart disease and keep the bears away. NOT A Chance of that. 8>) In fact, I use bacon as a condiment! 8>) "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt? --=_alternative 007DECF08525853E_= Miq writes-

>Eric, maybe just stop eating bacon in the shop, that will save you from heart disease and keep the bears away.

NOT A Chance of that.  8>)  In fact, I use bacon as a condiment!  8>)



"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John Galt? --=_alternative 007DECF08525853E_=-- --===============7226490973900302008== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7226490973900302008==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 2 17:04:31 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D8C5A1BB3 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 17:04:31 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oi1-f177.google.com (unknown [209.85.167.177]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1570DA0699 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 17:04:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-oi1-f177.google.com with SMTP id u20so4452404oic.4 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 16:04:26 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=whMmSolTYwSXb7asAbd1/IFOgJ/6AJSG8R729IvjywQ=; b=iLK0HTX8CqPmdpPFsq5Rge9Om6BJObTcqgyc2lHBsOi8W/tMXz9Cst3ClqF9JpFHjG ay2+BBPBq2sviugqvTbMPN1xQz42yj2xLkva1o5K8G8rgpyFmxuIM97pZYpmAPej7NzW bA+q/tEzcgDmc/8WGPvBUKTa/wMOTZC3LMlssZYk7pBcagHbUuqfxoBlyF9oxP3UA45n qXQopQUDwPufelMlfboWwZJybdyM9GbnOLuzcLn52ZKBLeYiOg/UzNZ75TcenUAkhb2F KXCdPsuX0ER2jfbf8nXgf0vNUw7T0HOXnPFLmeCip5OPI1h5kgYbiYNZH5Eba5LkUAHB ajbA== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=whMmSolTYwSXb7asAbd1/IFOgJ/6AJSG8R729IvjywQ=; b=k1+E5IkhuV1yFE9J33//qt6UiBR64Nldyc90W65en4nq+fBZjTfsm20/topOC6ozDL 5FQO2U/huQHJSBHAM4ce95HGMXMI6YIOBOVO2cP+Htbjw7uA+Rz/x0k9Q4YjSciTxN/B 7Nw3aUg7vNICpz+PlUMqlaVMayxZyzHYE9XMcQYE/h9psbnnVQz4wmqssxyOi9HiNq7T 6DzDWijROb761H2QkF35+XkoFdMWsXNb+DCmQTl8OhBWrIGhXAzawBTNq8q4D3hNSEyQ T2oO+E8Uw57SXMVcZVumECWgLZ+Z8VylMyO3OrchG+tSNOoRvZ6AmUHsCpu3jeqsZRrM fY5A== iaDXuUe3OUXf1FP3cSY9hhyKAQ/B9vaWa60KGhA6eA== Thu, 02 Apr 2020 16:04:24 -0700 (PDT) References: <52.E5.07714.E70568E5@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 18:03:47 -0500 To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: Scott Hall via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8610716847505236275== --0000000000006234bc05a256d209 Eric, I don't know what the weather's like there, but I've never been able to keep anything in my garage from rusting, long-term. Some of it just rusts faster, some slower. If it was a handgun, and I was depending on it, I don't think I'd leave it in the garage at all. Add to that the concern that you might be on the other side of the garage when you needed it and I might just be inclined to carry it while I was in there, then bring it inside after. Of course now, for me, I'm just going to close the garage door. I didn't even think about it before your email but I've got a pack of what my neighbors say are wolves behind my house--I can't tell the difference on sight between a wolf and a coyote (and I don't think it'd matter anyway), but there are definitely a pack of them and they like to howl at night and you can see them in the distance sometimes before it gets too dark. I've always assumed they want nothing to do with the house and I think they're neat to look at but am not necessarily interested in getting better acquainted. I think now I'll be maintaining garage stuff with the door down. Thanks for that. Scott On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 5:31 PM Bob Spidell via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > There was a photo going around years ago showing (what was left) of a guy > who was killed by a bear, but not before he emptied a .38 revolver into the > bear. It was pretty gruesome, the bear ripped him open and ate all his > organs (but, surprisingly, left his junk). Rangers killed the bear and > verified it was the culprit from stomach contents. > > So, if bears are a worry something more substantial than a .38 (dunno if > it was a 'special') is called-for. > > --0000000000006234bc05a256d209 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Eric,

I don't know= what the weather's like there, but I've never been able to keep an= ything in my garage from rusting, long-term. Some of it just rusts faster,= =C2=A0some slower. If it was a handgun, and I was depending on it, I don= 9;t think I'd leave it in the garage at all. Add to that the concern th= at you might=C2=A0be on the other side of the garage when you needed it and= I might just be inclined to carry it while I was in there, then bring it i= nside after.

Of course now, for me, I'm just g= oing to close the garage door. I didn't even think about it before your= email but I've got a pack of what my neighbors say are wolves behind m= y house--I can't tell the difference on sight between a wolf and a coyo= te (and I don't think it'd matter anyway), but there are definitely= a pack of them and they like to howl at night and you can see them in the = distance sometimes before it gets too dark. I've always assumed they wa= nt nothing to do with the house and I think they're neat to look at but= am not necessarily interested in getting better acquainted.=C2=A0

I think now I'll be maintaining garage stuff with the = door down. Thanks for that.

Scott

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 = at 5:31 PM Bob Spidell via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
There was a photo going around years ago showing (what was left) of a guy who was killed by a bear, but not before he emptied a .38 revolver into the bear.=C2=A0 It was pretty gruesome,=C2=A0 the bear ri= pped him open and ate all his organs (but, surprisingly, left his junk).=C2= =A0 Rangers killed the bear and verified it was the culprit from stomach contents.

So, if bears are a worry something more substantial than a .38 (dunno if it was a 'special') is called-for.

--0000000000006234bc05a256d209-- --===============8610716847505236275== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8610716847505236275==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 2 17:46:22 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C9D4A2526 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 17:46:22 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-02v.sys.comcast.net (unknown [69.252.207.34]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A853DA0DCC for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 17:46:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.106]) by resqmta-ch2-02v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id K8wrjaSLNGF45K9X8jhPJu; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 23:46:02 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1585871162; bh=45Iw5VbB7T8R7wfQUnXuKCbHwgqVLTiD+rcOx8lSQng=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=PfV2FMhIMzRopaCyWS82wYLDxKg2UnG6G7zRLAcIfQNTWDDDi/R0JdQhLyeUZqIFT zVi0W93Ee/or/XD8VssR7ad4ZgsKW84ZTmI9opQjBj2AzxFY7yFE0xhVUXwlTL7B4N XGxpUjgEoxT6rmzpKl7/i9Ufqjj6ckTABZ+VBMLzK7xMdVY6damFKtwZu2PB9E8QZx EndkZLTgIssaqSrf1GjW6j3RalAQDz78JwrC6Cs91HnefaqDs5GKbdhDgNH9yeuHfL 9jf/q2nRtUKR4vh8ASm+PfdE0CD75PS6BcWJGbKyGZCzYuRzwxXm7yi0c/5hH+WmGJ O35JZP5dG+pZw== Received: from [10.0.0.150] ([98.242.38.177]) by resomta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id K9WwjczXQg6zoK9WxjsVM3; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 23:45:51 +0000 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <52.E5.07714.E70568E5@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 16:45:51 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: Bob Spidell via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============7011862233879521108== boundary="------------397FBE802D83D900A878D90C" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------397FBE802D83D900A878D90C Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit re: "... I can't tell the difference on sight between a wolf and a coyote (and I don't think it'd matter anyway) ..." It would.  Wolves are bigger, stronger and smarter than coyotes, and they hunt in packs. On 4/2/2020 4:03 PM, Scott Hall via Shop-talk wrote: > Eric, > > I don't know what the weather's like there, but I've never been able > to keep anything in my garage from rusting, long-term. Some of it just > rusts faster, some slower. If it was a handgun, and I was depending on > it, I don't think I'd leave it in the garage at all. Add to that the > concern that you might be on the other side of the garage when you > needed it and I might just be inclined to carry it while I was in > there, then bring it inside after. > > Of course now, for me, I'm just going to close the garage door. I > didn't even think about it before your email but I've got a pack of > what my neighbors say are wolves behind my house--I can't tell the > difference on sight between a wolf and a coyote (and I don't think > it'd matter anyway), but there are definitely a pack of them and they > like to howl at night and you can see them in the distance sometimes > before it gets too dark. I've always assumed they want nothing to do > with the house and I think they're neat to look at but am not > necessarily interested in getting better acquainted. > > I think now I'll be maintaining garage stuff with the door down. > Thanks for that. > > Scott > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 5:31 PM Bob Spidell via Shop-talk > > There was a photo going around years ago showing (what was left) > of a guy who was killed by a bear, but not before he emptied a .38 > revolver into the bear.  It was pretty gruesome,  the bear ripped > him open and ate all his organs (but, surprisingly, left his > junk).  Rangers killed the bear and verified it was the culprit > from stomach contents. > > So, if bears are a worry something more substantial than a .38 > (dunno if it was a 'special') is called-for. > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bspidell@comcast.net > --------------397FBE802D83D900A878D90C Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit re: "... I can't tell the difference on sight between a wolf and a coyote (and I don't think it'd matter anyway) ..."

It would.  Wolves are bigger, stronger and smarter than coyotes, and they hunt in packs.


On 4/2/2020 4:03 PM, Scott Hall via Shop-talk wrote:
Eric,

I don't know what the weather's like there, but I've never been able to keep anything in my garage from rusting, long-term. Some of it just rusts faster, some slower. If it was a handgun, and I was depending on it, I don't think I'd leave it in the garage at all. Add to that the concern that you might be on the other side of the garage when you needed it and I might just be inclined to carry it while I was in there, then bring it inside after.

Of course now, for me, I'm just going to close the garage door. I didn't even think about it before your email but I've got a pack of what my neighbors say are wolves behind my house--I can't tell the difference on sight between a wolf and a coyote (and I don't think it'd matter anyway), but there are definitely a pack of them and they like to howl at night and you can see them in the distance sometimes before it gets too dark. I've always assumed they want nothing to do with the house and I think they're neat to look at but am not necessarily interested in getting better acquainted. 

I think now I'll be maintaining garage stuff with the door down. Thanks for that.

Scott

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 5:31 PM Bob Spidell via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
There was a photo going around years ago showing (what was left) of a guy who was killed by a bear, but not before he emptied a .38 revolver into the bear.  It was pretty gruesome,  the bear ripped him open and ate all his organs (but, surprisingly, left his junk).  Rangers killed the bear and verified it was the culprit from stomach contents.

So, if bears are a worry something more substantial than a .38 (dunno if it was a 'special') is called-for.


_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

--------------397FBE802D83D900A878D90C-- --===============7011862233879521108== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7011862233879521108==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 2 17:51:28 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 839B9A03E3 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 17:51:28 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qt1-f175.google.com (unknown [209.85.160.175]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9A00A0323 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 17:51:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-qt1-f175.google.com with SMTP id z24so5101370qtu.4 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 16:51:20 -0700 (PDT) h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:date:subject:message-id :to; bh=doU0an9wb+Hx5YmqmTyQhbNNJi/GJx4THZOZXO6xFJ4=; b=WPL8pTxfCSHIc3mfv8FAcZR8yU8dekZRsIQ4+X1dGyL9+1y2BUjPMqUErz2+7jwlU+ mXaoQDYIaSDdom4+F1ypbWpGbcwWCIQdRWym/157mm5Xhv8e6vS0gry9VaIJ8Gzm1cjz gXAJAR7Ux05LEclmoTILtMAhp2o7yDA6KGzU0oqIu/SaGR5ov+OBfO6Ixo43wIYKzbxf ZSSwIOt1vwJxAyxX2+UD4Tdy2thjOSvSU4eUndn6k5ihcRvIxlAzeRMN5YZkrhrA52HB yYCRQo8PuBDX0evlvpeTiEEV/HITeOpwujiJtp/hx+1jefKIPXsZtfncMiRMIlPhAF9H J8Hw== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:date :subject:message-id:to; bh=doU0an9wb+Hx5YmqmTyQhbNNJi/GJx4THZOZXO6xFJ4=; b=O8bjgCQqie+BNo/uk0cvZFcxg63YZojkx1UBwcvCp5CMWQNYI/kL9uzWOmbDQsSqFN UBt23H0sUAUnCduKgIEQ+1Cl+D4xEB2LApMm38FWds6hnO0Uj3xxlh6is1eSR1ZDTN/M lS3i/k1wX4ajTUqBWUaLSWEdxqcocwBegOKPFe2Ss0Arzq0LkDAwNWe8lXRyyTJ8KAKV odvXZgSwQzIxGW97Wg1n3pf2UCDz19etzBzhTwQ60MY6bclbzUfncsP4RS7w/c4GK2Rd cC6NbuEY/TEIGJo14qRKgjkPkmdopE4wqPB5t1ydWG4H1TIajLH1fSvnB6UXBC6u6LLk mUcA== UUIa69MEgg6UsWxQlalg2P82dz+U Thu, 02 Apr 2020 16:51:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2603:301b:2607:5f00:41e0:6818:f485:5ff6? ([2603:301b:2607:5f00:41e0:6818:f485:5ff6]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e17sm1384593qtw.1.2020.04.02.16.51.16 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 02 Apr 2020 16:51:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 19:51:16 -0400 To: Shop-Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] 1. Re: Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: Joe Szwed via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net While the chances of a bear attack are low, believe it or not New Jersey does have the densest population of both humans and black bears in the country. Joe Szwed Flemington NJ _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 2 21:45:33 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD2F8A13F1 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 21:45:33 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qt1-f171.google.com (unknown [209.85.160.171]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB320A13CA for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 21:45:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-qt1-f171.google.com with SMTP id z12so5443470qtq.5 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 20:45:20 -0700 (PDT) h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=x2iFQ/R6WJowluq+j0SJ1oCva/cwSSvONR9mC3jYlKY=; b=NSw8awGeTgAdiq8ZXmmBgVA/K1QEyFcDfWowJQ9Vy8iMfwS+YRzeJoslJzDaSN2ONL WIkgiWDzt2StlzUc48P8crvmfWHSOviDwUHVvaSTADvukFrsyJHJ2lkxEPsIahjsNFzW wWNaPk7rXo3AQm+e8U6WEUS89p5MgR4n0MDSx+proS0clboakSSB55b6oadwO7mVdyiS Tlr4MSWGXyBoWc7bUU3bxuOpGx4FB/x0FQiSVzqyC3Lgl6B0UTkw4VSxxWQ50XxB3cmR sJC1fZuMg9p/UrX5sF8A4y2jbHjk7FA+2HdlIQ3W+ClnutyeDpyMasAS1g1fWc+sHpDx 4ddw== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=x2iFQ/R6WJowluq+j0SJ1oCva/cwSSvONR9mC3jYlKY=; b=QzVXVTe+jkgH2asxEzgeoyjWyT86LRJDpHDaYbkZW1AjE2AsbkCktP7/hMSYUr3NlA /g20VLUeBx4Oy6qklfIDeeoac3CA5fjPL6mOIXKDW/GvougqPHeF5aEUY0AASwolM3LU NNx/1HDqT9yMHpn/wNyNWOC+qSKGZpGPwtL6u6QKClDs+SP7tcMnRIR2tfbpAaabEAGu HVDN6Q5MtW7dicGKfhKjVcy2KYjr4CKilf+6NWnb8NPrH28YVvh42hJM5rLqg/KSm5Yi 3aiJMZ92OBT7cmPG/uUcnDxr8zxXj7urBASGsUpSZJXAbIwVDOHXB99dOXH1YUYRMW4/ 2jNQ== PV28zWT5kBMzVKUltWOc4P85FL+d Thu, 02 Apr 2020 20:45:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.8.2.12] ([185.229.59.207]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f17sm5016402qkh.63.2020.04.02.20.45.15 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 02 Apr 2020 20:45:18 -0700 (PDT) To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <52.E5.07714.E70568E5@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 22:45:14 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: Scott Hall via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tm8sIHRoYXQncyBleGFjdGx5IG15IHBvaW50LS1JIGRvbid0IGNhcmUgaWYgaXQncyB0aGUgZHVt YmVyLCBzbWFsbGVyLCAKc29saXRhcnkgY295b3RlIGFuZCBub3QgYSB3b2xmLS1pdCBzdGlsbCBk b2Vzbid0IG1hdHRlciwgSSBkb24ndCB3YW50IHRvIApnbyBtYWtlIGZyaWVuZHMgd2l0aCB0aGVt LgoKT24gNC8yLzIwMjAgNjo0NSBQTSwgQm9iIFNwaWRlbGwgdmlhIFNob3AtdGFsayB3cm90ZToK PiByZTogIi4uLiBJIGNhbid0IHRlbGwgdGhlIGRpZmZlcmVuY2Ugb24gc2lnaHQgYmV0d2VlbiBh IHdvbGYgYW5kIGEgCj4gY295b3RlIChhbmQgSSBkb24ndCB0aGluayBpdCdkIG1hdHRlciBhbnl3 YXkpIC4uLiIKPgo+IEl0IHdvdWxkLsKgIFdvbHZlcyBhcmUgYmlnZ2VyLCBzdHJvbmdlciBhbmQg c21hcnRlciB0aGFuIGNveW90ZXMsIGFuZCAKPiB0aGV5IGh1bnQgaW4gcGFja3MuCj4KPgo+IE9u IDQvMi8yMDIwIDQ6MDMgUE0sIFNjb3R0IEhhbGwgdmlhIFNob3AtdGFsayB3cm90ZToKPj4gRXJp YywKPj4KPj4gSSBkb24ndCBrbm93IHdoYXQgdGhlIHdlYXRoZXIncyBsaWtlIHRoZXJlLCBidXQg SSd2ZSBuZXZlciBiZWVuIGFibGUgCj4+IHRvIGtlZXAgYW55dGhpbmcgaW4gbXkgZ2FyYWdlIGZy b20gcnVzdGluZywgbG9uZy10ZXJtLiBTb21lIG9mIGl0IAo+PiBqdXN0IHJ1c3RzIGZhc3RlcizC oHNvbWUgc2xvd2VyLiBJZiBpdCB3YXMgYSBoYW5kZ3VuLCBhbmQgSSB3YXMgCj4+IGRlcGVuZGlu ZyBvbiBpdCwgSSBkb24ndCB0aGluayBJJ2QgbGVhdmUgaXQgaW4gdGhlIGdhcmFnZSBhdCBhbGwu IEFkZCAKPj4gdG8gdGhhdCB0aGUgY29uY2VybiB0aGF0IHlvdSBtaWdodMKgYmUgb24gdGhlIG90 aGVyIHNpZGUgb2YgdGhlIGdhcmFnZSAKPj4gd2hlbiB5b3UgbmVlZGVkIGl0IGFuZCBJIG1pZ2h0 IGp1c3QgYmUgaW5jbGluZWQgdG8gY2FycnkgaXQgd2hpbGUgSSAKPj4gd2FzIGluIHRoZXJlLCB0 aGVuIGJyaW5nIGl0IGluc2lkZSBhZnRlci4KPj4KPj4gT2YgY291cnNlIG5vdywgZm9yIG1lLCBJ J20ganVzdCBnb2luZyB0byBjbG9zZSB0aGUgZ2FyYWdlIGRvb3IuIEkgCj4+IGRpZG4ndCBldmVu IHRoaW5rIGFib3V0IGl0IGJlZm9yZSB5b3VyIGVtYWlsIGJ1dCBJJ3ZlIGdvdCBhIHBhY2sgb2Yg Cj4+IHdoYXQgbXkgbmVpZ2hib3JzIHNheSBhcmUgd29sdmVzIGJlaGluZCBteSBob3VzZS0tSSBj YW4ndCB0ZWxsIHRoZSAKPj4gZGlmZmVyZW5jZSBvbiBzaWdodCBiZXR3ZWVuIGEgd29sZiBhbmQg YSBjb3lvdGUgKGFuZCBJIGRvbid0IHRoaW5rIAo+PiBpdCdkIG1hdHRlciBhbnl3YXkpLCBidXQg dGhlcmUgYXJlIGRlZmluaXRlbHkgYSBwYWNrIG9mIHRoZW0gYW5kIHRoZXkgCj4+IGxpa2UgdG8g aG93bCBhdCBuaWdodCBhbmQgeW91IGNhbiBzZWUgdGhlbSBpbiB0aGUgZGlzdGFuY2Ugc29tZXRp bWVzIAo+PiBiZWZvcmUgaXQgZ2V0cyB0b28gZGFyay4gSSd2ZSBhbHdheXMgYXNzdW1lZCB0aGV5 IHdhbnQgbm90aGluZyB0byBkbyAKPj4gd2l0aCB0aGUgaG91c2UgYW5kIEkgdGhpbmsgdGhleSdy ZSBuZWF0IHRvIGxvb2sgYXQgYnV0IGFtIG5vdCAKPj4gbmVjZXNzYXJpbHkgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBp biBnZXR0aW5nIGJldHRlciBhY3F1YWludGVkLgo+Pgo+PiBJIHRoaW5rIG5vdyBJJ2xsIGJlIG1h aW50YWluaW5nIGdhcmFnZSBzdHVmZiB3aXRoIHRoZSBkb29yIGRvd24uIAo+PiBUaGFua3MgZm9y IHRoYXQuCj4+Cj4+IFNjb3R0Cl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fCgpTaG9wLXRhbGtAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQKRG9uYXRlOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnRl YW0ubmV0L2RvbmF0ZS5odG1sClN1Z2dlc3RlZCBhbm51YWwgZG9uYXRpb24gICQxMi45NgpBcmNo aXZlOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnRlYW0ubmV0L3BpcGVybWFpbC9zaG9wLXRhbGsgaHR0cDovL2F1dG94 LnRlYW0ubmV0L2FyY2hpdmUKClVuc3Vic2NyaWJlL01hbmFnZTogaHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0u bmV0L21haWxtYW4vb3B0aW9ucy9zaG9wLXRhbGsvbWhhcmNAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQKCg== From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 3 10:38:19 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F16DAA0CAD for ; 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Fri, 3 Apr 2020 16:38:10 +0000 Received: from CH2PR04MB6505.namprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c59f:ecdf:87cc:cefd]) by CH2PR04MB6505.namprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c59f:ecdf:87cc:cefd%6]) with mapi id 15.20.2878.014; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 16:38:10 +0000 To: "Shop Talk" Thread-Topic: need a new router Thread-Index: AQHWCdW7l50qUZBlPESgpgegwoL4Jw== Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 16:38:10 +0000 Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:CB0438DBCFB8AFBBC6884B5E9760D3216224E91CDDE88EFD6695D42AEE4165CD; UpperCasedChecksum:D732DAFFFD424765648065B38D2C07C561EE34C350E7551B4274D94BC72E28BA; SizeAsReceived:6647; Count:42 x-tmn: [qZcAj3GhfwCGGplXbsFstKx49L4UjMlV] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-incomingheadercount: 42 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2beeac94-ac91-4e1f-6273-08d7d7ed654c x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6NAM12HT098: x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: Bix32l+JB6RKCITYaTm/SdF0JYiIXjO6soBg5GIs6tXcLGnfME/9aLPWQxXdwGf/700awvibC4Gr2Z+rzS2ZyutCP4xRXg7y/ZOO/+s4ithRxIdyA1fxXqW8L4ykhTm9wxitTwrtOrmhxlCU5FNzJMTLKvhnnUicl/Ny7sMDnvWQyCIEvgmPhuLxaE5v9DqS x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:0; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:CH2PR04MB6505.namprd04.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:; DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: kfRcptQoRZR+1tMWfAcM7pDg1WhZgW81xcnigjgKSmoMHnn+0MB2XMy5cfAeUWRa5SO6HPqz4JNk4CbLSzZOE/4yJtXWGNdhXZ5liXQnw0gf0ox/aYRSOIeqEckwS8Z+cbSJBqRoQ8/+ooSPeQ88Ow== x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Subject: [Shop-talk] need a new router From: "Tim . via Shop-talk" Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0570806436925641971== Content-Language: en-US boundary="_000_CH2PR04MB65054F5624A3E50FE7DDA725B4C70CH2PR04MB6505namp_" --_000_CH2PR04MB65054F5624A3E50FE7DDA725B4C70CH2PR04MB6505namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This working from home has proven to me that I finally need to replace my v= ery old router. I don't want to have to go shopping for it but also know that my computer k= nowledge is dated and not even close to being up to date. So, I need recommendations for a good home router that will be easy to conf= igure. I am pretty sure that I can get up to 100MB speed from our ISP so want to t= ry to take advantage of that since both my wife and I are both working from= home. Thanks stay healthy tim --_000_CH2PR04MB65054F5624A3E50FE7DDA725B4C70CH2PR04MB6505namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This working from home has proven to me that I finally need to replace my v= ery old router. 

I don't want to have to go shopping for it but also know that my computer k= nowledge is dated and not even close to being up to date. 

So, I need recommendations for a good home router that will be easy to conf= igure. 

I am pretty sure that I can get up to 100MB speed from our ISP so want to t= ry to take advantage of that since both my wife and I are both working from= home. 

Thanks
stay healthy
tim
--_000_CH2PR04MB65054F5624A3E50FE7DDA725B4C70CH2PR04MB6505namp_-- --===============0570806436925641971== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0570806436925641971==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 3 10:51:19 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE849A0EE6 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 10:51:18 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from bradakis.com (unknown [50.198.190.18]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA7D1A0D30 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 10:47:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bradakis.com (bradakis.com [50.198.190.18]) by bradakis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9AA21C004F for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 10:47:34 -0600 (MDT) To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 10:47:34 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] need a new router From: Mark J Bradakis via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net On 4/3/20 10:38 AM, Tim . via Shop-talk wrote: > This working from home has proven to me that I finally need to replace = > my very old router. > > I don't want to have to go shopping for it but also know that my = > computer knowledge is dated and not even close to being up to date. > > So, I need recommendations for a good home router that will be easy to = > configure. > > I am pretty sure that I can get up to 100MB speed from our ISP so want = > to try to take advantage of that since both my wife and I are both = > working from home. > Does your ISP not provide the router?=A0 What exactly is it they provide?= =A0 = Just a bare cable hanging out of the wall? mjb. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch= ive utox.team.net From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 3 11:02:04 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CF90A0EF5 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 11:02:04 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (unknown [217.70.183.198]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E70DA0B70 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 11:01:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.135] (c-73-253-103-15.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [73.253.103.15]) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3EEA0C000B; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 17:01:57 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 13:01:55 -0400 To: "Tim ." References: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] need a new router From: Jim Franklin via Shop-talk Cc: Shop Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============6351911425005275331== boundary="Apple-Mail=_000C5B11-9C1D-4F18-846F-5ED6DE10DAD3" --Apple-Mail=_000C5B11-9C1D-4F18-846F-5ED6DE10DAD3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=us-ascii What kind of drop do you have (coax, fiber, etc)? Usually the provider = will give you one. They don't often degrade, they just stop working. So = it depends what immediat eproblem you're trying to solve... jim > On Apr 3, 2020, at 12:38 PM, Tim . via Shop-talk = wrote: >=20 > This working from home has proven to me that I finally need to replace = my very old router.=20 >=20 > I don't want to have to go shopping for it but also know that my = computer knowledge is dated and not even close to being up to date.=20 >=20 > So, I need recommendations for a good home router that will be easy to = configure.=20 >=20 > I am pretty sure that I can get up to 100MB speed from our ISP so want = to try to take advantage of that since both my wife and I are both = working from home.=20 >=20 > Thanks > stay healthy > tim > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html = > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive = >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf@groupwbench.org = --Apple-Mail=_000C5B11-9C1D-4F18-846F-5ED6DE10DAD3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=us-ascii What = kind of drop do you have (coax, fiber, etc)? Usually the provider will = give you one. They don't often degrade, they just stop working. So it = depends what immediat eproblem you're trying to solve...

jim
On Apr = 3, 2020, at 12:38 PM, Tim . via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:

This working from home has proven to me = that I finally need to replace my very old router. 

I don't want to have to go shopping for it = but also know that my computer knowledge is dated and not even close to = being up to date. 

So, I need recommendations for a good home = router that will be easy to configure. 

I am pretty sure that I can get up to 100MB = speed from our ISP so want to try to take advantage of that since both = my wife and I are both working from home. 

Thanks
stay healthy
tim
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jamesf@groupwbe= nch.org

= --Apple-Mail=_000C5B11-9C1D-4F18-846F-5ED6DE10DAD3-- --===============6351911425005275331== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============6351911425005275331==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 3 11:03:16 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6493CA0F17 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 11:03:16 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from ms11p00im-qufo17281501.me.com (unknown [17.58.38.52]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6FECA0B74 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 11:03:13 -0600 (MDT) s=1a1hai; t=1585933391; bh=iEb2AdIoJj5pkOuxuOUjTUAEdOmMLLRg6FBxEZZWCto=; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=iX+y3egnaxx43qsgg7QrJ3rmvEDxubrC0k6B4lLo3wPCOotrUNQQlaUUS00z2GuUM ZmTC7mm4WDh4/+O+tpOof5GbLP+iltm+/vT2dtDRiG9yua0SEYc81Pqe9Bw7jwEPGP WQacrS6KK9zbtDSlP10HtKB057QEzKiabrUTavkMSLAsgArQu9cWhVcELo6nqOVWTV 4WanKm+SxUdihKbuYodwZx70ef8TlqnQ1fLCaavF+OXxaCaMs1LGa0v6n85VHME3oc PC2i3GzkPL9LXV8AlxGFF1GvsgE689SUHn4Xo7LUzBgXTSD7Gf6IR0ah2Y7Llbm7ti xP2d7ptcrQ6KQ== Received: from [192.168.88.55] (unknown [199.38.189.253]) by ms11p00im-qufo17281501.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F1655B4049C; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 17:03:10 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 12:03:08 -0500 References: To: "Tim ." definitions=2020-04-03_13:, , signatures=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-2004030141 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] need a new router From: Pat Horne via Shop-talk Cc: Shop Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============6997044748778829658== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-4CBC1D2D-C641-4F08-BEE5-0A6D69D4EDF7 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=E2=80=99ve been very happy with routers from MikroTik. Not well known here= but have been around for many years. I=E2=80=99ve used them for about 15 ye= ars. They started as a supplier for ISPs.=20 I use their RB951ui-2HnD router. High power WiFi (1000 mW) & 5 cat-5 10/100 p= orts. $70 on Amazon. I had trouble with them sending old stock that didn=E2=80= =99t have a warranty but have great luck with ispsupplies.com.=20 It comes configured but has lots of flexibility if you need something out of= the ordinary.=20 Peace, Pat Pat Horne=20 We support Habitat for Humanity > On Apr 3, 2020, at 11:38 AM, Tim . via Shop-talk wrote: >=20 =EF=BB=BF This working from home has proven to me that I finally need to replace my ve= ry old router.=20 I don't want to have to go shopping for it but also know that my computer kn= owledge is dated and not even close to being up to date.=20 So, I need recommendations for a good home router that will be easy to confi= gure.=20 I am pretty sure that I can get up to 100MB speed from our ISP so want to tr= y to take advantage of that since both my wife and I are both working from h= ome.=20 Thanks stay healthy tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi= ve as@icloud.com --Apple-Mail-4CBC1D2D-C641-4F08-BEE5-0A6D69D4EDF7 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=E2=80=99ve been very happy with routers f= rom MikroTik. Not well known here but have been around for many years. I=E2=80= =99ve used them for about 15 years. They started as a supplier for ISPs.&nbs= p;

I use their RB951ui-2HnD router. High power WiFi (1000= mW) & 5 cat-5 10/100 ports. $70 on Amazon. I had trouble with them send= ing old stock that didn=E2=80=99t have a warranty but have great luck with i= spsupplies.com. 

It comes configured but has l= ots of flexibility if you need something out of the ordinary. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne = ;
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Apr 3, 2020, at 11:38 AM, Tim . via Sh= op-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
This working from home has proven to me that I finally need to replace my ve= ry old router. 

I don't want to have to go shopping for it but also know that my computer kn= owledge is dated and not even close to being up to date. 

So, I need recommendations for a good home router that will be easy to confi= gure. 

I am pretty sure that I can get up to 100MB speed from our ISP so want to tr= y to take advantage of that since both my wife and I are both working from h= ome. 

Thanks
stay healthy
tim
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.= net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.tea= m.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://au= tox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.com

= --Apple-Mail-4CBC1D2D-C641-4F08-BEE5-0A6D69D4EDF7-- --===============6997044748778829658== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============6997044748778829658==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 3 14:07:08 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFFBAA10A3 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 14:07:07 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net (unknown [69.252.207.35]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 783C0A0BD8 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 14:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.107]) by resqmta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id KSHGjSzVt8K6OKSahji5ew; Fri, 03 Apr 2020 20:06:59 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1585944419; bh=s7VjOST5Ewc3hcEjX8hEkBNt3XsX6vYWlUe4voJIK94=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=rSHKHzCXTYylz1upH900l1dICI2CCx46k13Ws0+jPJBK9pHBV5doOQryRhaMbuEpZ rcLaqD56OWIXJrseIGZRTA30fpn8U7NQPuKRD8P7fhTCbUfHUsJrqs7Pm8hmLnbiyz 5VJyy7QUkpHZcP7Y9RQxaRo1UKtLf4qULsjWXhsVl3kK3QfL1vAvxxtY4ET3d7xYtk fiQ8LeSfxauuEtUSxvu5OpkOxwfFj1RdhDzcLQ+cE48wRCCXfK7GMoI6Lstys9gsx3 VsE4EQPL4nNAaC1vr5NvjmhU+FSQrXcMSKC40aVZW/BBtKDs/vn+U4IqSTafF9gSVx rPwIERAbMeu2g== Received: from [192.168.1.133] ([68.32.79.140]) by resomta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id KSagjbEDqByhMKSahjEVSM; Fri, 03 Apr 2020 20:06:59 +0000 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: Autocrypt: addr=dhlocker@comcast.net; keydata= xsBNBF0+Lr8BCACbNvuK0u6HB7m7kPCghe4cKukH7bgyOzedQi8Flx2tA9/Vt7Fx1QqIWoHR iYlBdNDTSv+EKrG2n2B/lQ4POPUHf3Z82nDx3p6HX9+iHejZTNcIUF6rNszEf9yGXLjqxMBh 1/Mhaut0iLQvnpmZD1+uH9YVdTkfsXwYOdxnwDQOU9YPC8RlimeAOROqT5/OprzOi/JeuJDI gDhAjg6y0x/pkMP9VDXtScbJi7qzBNOu0KnoMrqv4phwATR7YDY8ps4mzcGeuZTX8HJFx0HV cybglu7c7MeKlLtPxKYP1xAvCfbrjvyGRrtKRBOKIe62ROMt+ksEKdzxbQdy5yhjh0k5ABEB AAHNPURvbmFsZCAoSW5pdGlhbCBHUEcgc2V0dXAgdmlhIEtHcGcgb24pIDxkaGxvY2tlckBj b21jYXN0Lm5ldD7CwKUEEwEKADgWIQSLyKs/Ouvq5+s2h2p7L3P+eIKCNwUCXT4uvwIbLwUL CQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAhCRB7L3P+eIKCNxYhBIvIqz866+rn6zaHansvc/54 goI3NrQH/RRgTEOUojGkj9EURlP6iLZLGzrM9slj0i9ruTut1QVVddfQKhmqXfZ4Fq9BQ7T/ ft9eSxs1Z6EIeQ+GyUYERTHmos/U8w/A586xxIlrssxVDztfpNI2JAi4nGSft+YwEhqyc7qJ a0AHopo56qOXHZn2Ma6DDX3YWc8gao519KrSMF1/IGWzaGe6f2VwfWILMNYXkiUWScHVxAPt gMF6JJm19JLxIfE08/MaMg1+vUzpWePH+ZM1gT4vLMV7S84FL4obNW5RTWn3WzKvxM5GSYWB 5b5DjeEI9ehuAUXCgxewm0EQtlr7Xx3vwWrdHVdtOlXtpi1OiwDm10YFk6T10oPOwE0EXT4u vwEIAM4nugs+i+F+5ahhDQoBFCLLVYMEcnz8GMA93Eo+3/E51aXP4D3tNCNtubtiE2pTmJQe YqcywYbRWwgKWgUTCu9TFTE1eX9HWk0Hi2tjBo6fh7t2ECYV5WHOTl71LtO5geVytt9kDmQY SLgqcs6Yv/3JKGf+7YGerQ+ey7yjdOZojiNKMLiLl0vx9vD/nbRH8smr+yhJSjXyv+gstC47 lIvbFH+odG+BYAFQ7mQrp4XYYbVaI+1LgFnMuA2YLx7YHElEgW1Ty/65baT1O0dmo9EAYBWn 0ruelC4ilqdx0k9TYlRMSK/Ut6pnbuTNblkG3DGd8ITHldLFS74HU0wiSU0AEQEAAcLB2gQY AQoAIBYhBIvIqz866+rn6zaHansvc/54goI3BQJdPi6/AhsuAW4JEHsvc/54goI3wIsgBBkB CgAdFiEETlXA49yKFokgOwlhu9cTLysZPgsFAl0+Lr8AIQkQu9cTLysZPgsWIQROVcDj3IoW iSA7CWG71xMvKxk+C+iGB/wMeh96QoBwi9QHmLDHl2oVyYQgD0CQhyMRMGLudYpyPxenuqgo t5932iuqRaN3AeOtCY2D+XCUevo4pfKT4yPYs8LZlD2I0OaOkhW1LwHbFg9eEDgqghKgXZQ4 w8a192nXpApYhe5vQBDpumDkIpIMNVArtPAAEEyUBpfylOzOpEMNszO/0H45IR6QH92BAp6s UYgEjiN3tCae+smU6ZO3DobTReVgV0Km42mx3K0aP+0OSqiPa2EaMOus9Q0NzsQd1ScPePYr W/Mi0CODaPQLDvhZtlH49CG64iyJhND+Jia3cNRehmqlF8Fu6ph9lOoKrcNZ+9ys1PtYku+n A4LNFiEEi8irPzrr6ufrNodqey9z/niCgjcojgf/TdWonhk3S9MgWcNyp6zCnLd8Wli40e21 RizNhA5NstWFOqqxWxBqZ8gOZKH4y7nh9eBPcHNR+gvdsa1PYQRQ62PtgZfpfPKlavT7gJqw KaXEq2YHZ+vt9WWtRnuL+bWs1l7NjsBgOD18gZaGmpVXcGK/pfD0I1VGkjxEhddnW/ztY874 eVjPstXDuHfX5FCIaElCliu6dp1zxhwa3kZKTB5T55qXeXLtnPtonlgvF5pJH7C/cwOo+mHL fCfSjnBcveVAKf83GLt/YZ9fbvCtcDujrflE2ocZIDro0VioRyvdH8JtNgJuaf7q9VUf5GgZ NxG/37eGKEOIZCrS0P6TUc7ATQRdPi6/AQgAzie6Cz6L4X7lqGENCgEUIstVgwRyfPwYwD3c Sj7f8TnVpc/gPe00I225u2ITalOYlB5ipzLBhtFbCApaBRMK71MVMTV5f0daTQeLa2MGjp+H u3YQJhXlYc5OXvUu07mB5XK232QOZBhIuCpyzpi//ckoZ/7tgZ6tD57LvKN05miOI0owuIuX S/H28P+dtEfyyav7KElKNfK/6Cy0LjuUi9sUf6h0b4FgAVDuZCunhdhhtVoj7UuAWcy4DZgv HtgcSUSBbVPL/rltpPU7R2aj0QBgFafSu56ULiKWp3HST1NiVExIr9S3qmdu5M1uWQbcMZ3w hMeV0sVLvgdTTCJJTQARAQABwsHaBBgBCgAgFiEEi8irPzrr6ufrNodqey9z/niCgjcFAl0+ Lr8CGy4BbgkQey9z/niCgjfAiyAEGQEKAB0WIQROVcDj3IoWiSA7CWG71xMvKxk+CwUCXT4u vwAhCRC71xMvKxk+CxYhBE5VwOPcihaJIDsJYbvXEy8rGT4L6IYH/Ax6H3pCgHCL1AeYsMeX ahXJhCAPQJCHIxEwYu51inI/F6e6qCi3n3faK6pFo3cB460JjYP5cJR6+jil8pPjI9izwtmU PYjQ5o6SFbUvAdsWD14QOCqCEqBdlDjDxrX3adekCliF7m9AEOm6YOQikgw1UCu08AAQTJQG l/KU7M6kQw2zM7/QfjkhHpAf3YECnqxRiASOI3e0Jp76yZTpk7cOhtNF5WBXQqbjabHcrRo/ 7Q5KqI9rYRow66z1DQ3OxB3VJw949itb8yLQI4No9AsO+Fm2Ufj0IbriLImE0P4mJrdw1F6G aqUXwW7qmH2U6gqtw1n73KzU+1iS76cDgs0WIQSLyKs/Ouvq5+s2h2p7L3P+eIKCNyiOB/9N 1aieGTdL0yBZw3KnrMKct3xaWLjR7bVGLM2EDk2y1YU6qrFbEGpnyA5kofjLueH14E9wc1H6 C92xrU9hBFDrY+2Bl+l88qVq9PuAmrAppcSrZgdn6+31Za1Ge4v5tazWXs2OwGA4PXyBloaa lVdwYr+l8PQjVUaSPESF12db/O1jzvh5WM+y1cO4d9fkUIhoSUKWK7p2nXPGHBreRkpMHlPn mpd5cu2c+2ieWC8XmkkfsL9zA6j6Yct8J9KOcFy95UAp/zcYu39hn19u8K1wO6Ot+UTahxkg OujRWKhHK90fwm02Am5p/ur1VR/kaBk3Eb/ft4YoQ4hkKtLQ/pNR Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 16:06:58 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.4.1 Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] need a new router From: Donald H Locker via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I went to my ISP's website and chose a modem that they supported (Cisco DPC3008) and a separate router (Linksys EA3500.) A short Ethernet (RJ45 on each end) cable connects them and the router gives the WiFi and a few hardwired connections. Works a treat. The modem needs to be compatible with your ISP and carrier's modulation scheme; almost any modern router should be compatible, but look for NAT (Network Address Translation) and Firewall features. Those give you somewhat more security. Set a VERY strong password on your WiFi (I would say 20 characters is a minimum and should include all those wonky characters that are hard to type.) If yours has a guest WiFi, leave that turned off unless you actually have a guest and change that password with each new guest that comes/goes. HTH, Donald. -- *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue () no proprietary attachments; no html mail /\ On 2020-04-03 12:38 p.m., Tim . via Shop-talk wrote: > This working from home has proven to me that I finally need to replace > my very old router.=A0 > = > I don't want to have to go shopping for it but also know that my > computer knowledge is dated and not even close to being up to date.=A0 > = > So, I need recommendations for a good home router that will be easy to > configure.=A0 > = > I am pretty sure that I can get up to 100MB speed from our ISP so want > to try to take advantage of that since both my wife and I are both > working from home.=A0 > = > Thanks > stay healthy > tim > = > _______________________________________________ > = > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/ar= chive > = > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/dhloc= ker@comcast.net > = _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch= ive utox.team.net From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 3 14:10:47 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64384A10A9 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 14:10:47 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-02v.sys.comcast.net (unknown [69.252.207.34]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08DEAA0F1F for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 14:10:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-05v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.101]) by resqmta-ch2-02v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id KSbwjbfCwGF45KSeHjjpsX; Fri, 03 Apr 2020 20:10:41 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1585944641; bh=ypyrAJwiptIe4k0k5TmAUYO6o7g1/MSy0w6UYc55UC4=; h=Received:Received:Subject:From:To:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=IIbT19bPaXNOyTrxNVQzdQi5zGF2NztM3+xyiRW5C1DmAFZQsysYakqfVl+t/cH+y pM/Zel9JkD+he2wkz2CAYey3hbalWlsTDHk4/nhqf10zhSm5357a4dqXK8gJtkR/SF ni3ycO1xi2Pux9RHhWOhqd05o8wtH+CXnNKXrJ6jgmUW/B28uxYLZEF48rTTp+Ux1u wwwjGh3rEVxGYjIUaRVixHQghlDviuw2IgUInG3agn/T/77Sfc3bPmbQgRko/kJY65 0wsNyCZrQFHgknlA3mkhSJNbRFascyrgezI52xk9fBjpHoD+9vjWx8FnwoBzsAFoYy wHuPIFeDtfY9Q== Received: from [192.168.1.133] ([68.32.79.140]) by resomta-ch2-05v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id KSdyjCqc4bBT8KSdyjykfb; Fri, 03 Apr 2020 20:10:23 +0000 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <53181466-b422-0c09-134e-4a8b36d1c13b@comcast.net> Autocrypt: addr=dhlocker@comcast.net; keydata= xsBNBF0+Lr8BCACbNvuK0u6HB7m7kPCghe4cKukH7bgyOzedQi8Flx2tA9/Vt7Fx1QqIWoHR iYlBdNDTSv+EKrG2n2B/lQ4POPUHf3Z82nDx3p6HX9+iHejZTNcIUF6rNszEf9yGXLjqxMBh 1/Mhaut0iLQvnpmZD1+uH9YVdTkfsXwYOdxnwDQOU9YPC8RlimeAOROqT5/OprzOi/JeuJDI gDhAjg6y0x/pkMP9VDXtScbJi7qzBNOu0KnoMrqv4phwATR7YDY8ps4mzcGeuZTX8HJFx0HV cybglu7c7MeKlLtPxKYP1xAvCfbrjvyGRrtKRBOKIe62ROMt+ksEKdzxbQdy5yhjh0k5ABEB AAHNPURvbmFsZCAoSW5pdGlhbCBHUEcgc2V0dXAgdmlhIEtHcGcgb24pIDxkaGxvY2tlckBj b21jYXN0Lm5ldD7CwKUEEwEKADgWIQSLyKs/Ouvq5+s2h2p7L3P+eIKCNwUCXT4uvwIbLwUL CQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAhCRB7L3P+eIKCNxYhBIvIqz866+rn6zaHansvc/54 goI3NrQH/RRgTEOUojGkj9EURlP6iLZLGzrM9slj0i9ruTut1QVVddfQKhmqXfZ4Fq9BQ7T/ ft9eSxs1Z6EIeQ+GyUYERTHmos/U8w/A586xxIlrssxVDztfpNI2JAi4nGSft+YwEhqyc7qJ a0AHopo56qOXHZn2Ma6DDX3YWc8gao519KrSMF1/IGWzaGe6f2VwfWILMNYXkiUWScHVxAPt gMF6JJm19JLxIfE08/MaMg1+vUzpWePH+ZM1gT4vLMV7S84FL4obNW5RTWn3WzKvxM5GSYWB 5b5DjeEI9ehuAUXCgxewm0EQtlr7Xx3vwWrdHVdtOlXtpi1OiwDm10YFk6T10oPOwE0EXT4u vwEIAM4nugs+i+F+5ahhDQoBFCLLVYMEcnz8GMA93Eo+3/E51aXP4D3tNCNtubtiE2pTmJQe YqcywYbRWwgKWgUTCu9TFTE1eX9HWk0Hi2tjBo6fh7t2ECYV5WHOTl71LtO5geVytt9kDmQY SLgqcs6Yv/3JKGf+7YGerQ+ey7yjdOZojiNKMLiLl0vx9vD/nbRH8smr+yhJSjXyv+gstC47 lIvbFH+odG+BYAFQ7mQrp4XYYbVaI+1LgFnMuA2YLx7YHElEgW1Ty/65baT1O0dmo9EAYBWn 0ruelC4ilqdx0k9TYlRMSK/Ut6pnbuTNblkG3DGd8ITHldLFS74HU0wiSU0AEQEAAcLB2gQY AQoAIBYhBIvIqz866+rn6zaHansvc/54goI3BQJdPi6/AhsuAW4JEHsvc/54goI3wIsgBBkB CgAdFiEETlXA49yKFokgOwlhu9cTLysZPgsFAl0+Lr8AIQkQu9cTLysZPgsWIQROVcDj3IoW iSA7CWG71xMvKxk+C+iGB/wMeh96QoBwi9QHmLDHl2oVyYQgD0CQhyMRMGLudYpyPxenuqgo t5932iuqRaN3AeOtCY2D+XCUevo4pfKT4yPYs8LZlD2I0OaOkhW1LwHbFg9eEDgqghKgXZQ4 w8a192nXpApYhe5vQBDpumDkIpIMNVArtPAAEEyUBpfylOzOpEMNszO/0H45IR6QH92BAp6s UYgEjiN3tCae+smU6ZO3DobTReVgV0Km42mx3K0aP+0OSqiPa2EaMOus9Q0NzsQd1ScPePYr W/Mi0CODaPQLDvhZtlH49CG64iyJhND+Jia3cNRehmqlF8Fu6ph9lOoKrcNZ+9ys1PtYku+n A4LNFiEEi8irPzrr6ufrNodqey9z/niCgjcojgf/TdWonhk3S9MgWcNyp6zCnLd8Wli40e21 RizNhA5NstWFOqqxWxBqZ8gOZKH4y7nh9eBPcHNR+gvdsa1PYQRQ62PtgZfpfPKlavT7gJqw KaXEq2YHZ+vt9WWtRnuL+bWs1l7NjsBgOD18gZaGmpVXcGK/pfD0I1VGkjxEhddnW/ztY874 eVjPstXDuHfX5FCIaElCliu6dp1zxhwa3kZKTB5T55qXeXLtnPtonlgvF5pJH7C/cwOo+mHL fCfSjnBcveVAKf83GLt/YZ9fbvCtcDujrflE2ocZIDro0VioRyvdH8JtNgJuaf7q9VUf5GgZ NxG/37eGKEOIZCrS0P6TUc7ATQRdPi6/AQgAzie6Cz6L4X7lqGENCgEUIstVgwRyfPwYwD3c Sj7f8TnVpc/gPe00I225u2ITalOYlB5ipzLBhtFbCApaBRMK71MVMTV5f0daTQeLa2MGjp+H u3YQJhXlYc5OXvUu07mB5XK232QOZBhIuCpyzpi//ckoZ/7tgZ6tD57LvKN05miOI0owuIuX S/H28P+dtEfyyav7KElKNfK/6Cy0LjuUi9sUf6h0b4FgAVDuZCunhdhhtVoj7UuAWcy4DZgv HtgcSUSBbVPL/rltpPU7R2aj0QBgFafSu56ULiKWp3HST1NiVExIr9S3qmdu5M1uWQbcMZ3w hMeV0sVLvgdTTCJJTQARAQABwsHaBBgBCgAgFiEEi8irPzrr6ufrNodqey9z/niCgjcFAl0+ Lr8CGy4BbgkQey9z/niCgjfAiyAEGQEKAB0WIQROVcDj3IoWiSA7CWG71xMvKxk+CwUCXT4u vwAhCRC71xMvKxk+CxYhBE5VwOPcihaJIDsJYbvXEy8rGT4L6IYH/Ax6H3pCgHCL1AeYsMeX ahXJhCAPQJCHIxEwYu51inI/F6e6qCi3n3faK6pFo3cB460JjYP5cJR6+jil8pPjI9izwtmU PYjQ5o6SFbUvAdsWD14QOCqCEqBdlDjDxrX3adekCliF7m9AEOm6YOQikgw1UCu08AAQTJQG l/KU7M6kQw2zM7/QfjkhHpAf3YECnqxRiASOI3e0Jp76yZTpk7cOhtNF5WBXQqbjabHcrRo/ 7Q5KqI9rYRow66z1DQ3OxB3VJw949itb8yLQI4No9AsO+Fm2Ufj0IbriLImE0P4mJrdw1F6G aqUXwW7qmH2U6gqtw1n73KzU+1iS76cDgs0WIQSLyKs/Ouvq5+s2h2p7L3P+eIKCNyiOB/9N 1aieGTdL0yBZw3KnrMKct3xaWLjR7bVGLM2EDk2y1YU6qrFbEGpnyA5kofjLueH14E9wc1H6 C92xrU9hBFDrY+2Bl+l88qVq9PuAmrAppcSrZgdn6+31Za1Ge4v5tazWXs2OwGA4PXyBloaa lVdwYr+l8PQjVUaSPESF12db/O1jzvh5WM+y1cO4d9fkUIhoSUKWK7p2nXPGHBreRkpMHlPn mpd5cu2c+2ieWC8XmkkfsL9zA6j6Yct8J9KOcFy95UAp/zcYu39hn19u8K1wO6Ot+UTahxkg OujRWKhHK90fwm02Am5p/ur1VR/kaBk3Eb/ft4YoQ4hkKtLQ/pNR Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 16:10:22 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.4.1 Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] need a new router From: Donald H Locker via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net One other note - you can get a modem and/or router from your ISP, but it will be a rental and you'll end up paying more for that than for a purchased device. The positive side is that if it fails, it's there equipment and they should support (repair/replace) it. You will be responsible for the equipment if you purchase it. My experience has been extremely good with purchasing; these boxes are very rugged and reliable. Stay healthy! Donald. *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue () no proprietary attachments; no html mail /\ On 2020-04-03 4:06 p.m., Donald H Locker wrote: > I went to my ISP's website and chose a modem that they supported (Cisco > DPC3008) and a separate router (Linksys EA3500.) A short Ethernet (RJ45 > on each end) cable connects them and the router gives the WiFi and a few > hardwired connections. Works a treat. > = > The modem needs to be compatible with your ISP and carrier's modulation > scheme; almost any modern router should be compatible, but look for NAT > (Network Address Translation) and Firewall features. Those give you > somewhat more security. Set a VERY strong password on your WiFi (I would > say 20 characters is a minimum and should include all those wonky > characters that are hard to type.) If yours has a guest WiFi, leave that > turned off unless you actually have a guest and change that password > with each new guest that comes/goes. > = > HTH, > Donald. > -- > *Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue > () no proprietary attachments; no html mail > /\ > = > On 2020-04-03 12:38 p.m., Tim . via Shop-talk wrote: >> This working from home has proven to me that I finally need to replace >> my very old router.=A0 >> >> I don't want to have to go shopping for it but also know that my >> computer knowledge is dated and not even close to being up to date.=A0 >> >> So, I need recommendations for a good home router that will be easy to >> configure.=A0 >> >> I am pretty sure that I can get up to 100MB speed from our ISP so want >> to try to take advantage of that since both my wife and I are both >> working from home.=A0 >> >> Thanks >> stay healthy >> tim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch= ive utox.team.net From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 3 15:36:09 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D995A10C0 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 15:36:09 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qk1-f180.google.com (unknown [209.85.222.180]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3F3BA0ED1 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 15:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-qk1-f180.google.com with SMTP id u4so9669772qkj.13 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2020 14:36:02 -0700 (PDT) h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:thread-index :content-language; bh=WcCmQQAS21dN1Sb+o+ZniVSUJ7yotgArmMqH3Os1Gt0=; b=LvZfyNv7HLailuKrwFH+YkGtIA5V9pga7mlETJ0LnbhXK4zuH1NraNSm6VZ/hBy30U 6atwa5x1KcHYUY6fLUd/2bBf9t2oisFpTjfKWTOszGWgnO+xuIgbrIHEwKjaLlH2jjEn qW6G1pqDMyv121VS5grEqDBVYNmSrMD3tP3jX1sA12HSiCUdCUxKVucWNfpxIYNYtcMG /RpJgyRzSxYt1GH7ZWxwn446N54f6EWcAKtXLLNpBaEaGHfaHm2yJJV8HQTjFmTl53I2 IVbi7mt9uPicpBWh+BciUjkTSV72eCnr+sXQyqc7WXvQ3WTKiwfWjMVqKuamzEHClzrn bBpA== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=WcCmQQAS21dN1Sb+o+ZniVSUJ7yotgArmMqH3Os1Gt0=; b=BTnIJIqHvYW4aebUZovGg7nvQQqhxwM31HCYGrWPX96d7Ni4RQ0I1RHaVaewiJtbbd 3PBcThHCebSvZglUlpyg8sTmyeqOqAU4cUblqcnDXHuQlfaEZTi4M2d2+yNCkFiMAHaw z8ca2atWdISbguGEnIMWBWr3miwtCgEsvsy3a97VyV2M346cC696VXoHy23uiALzMr5D vNtaaWEyaaWljba3XfNZMGp3ZtGTejn2D8pRCDq6s7zERdNC6Yz57MJARaYqlccg0byI mQ+zSYJBOZSLYJ6CzgdfbNSJgEvabNemJ6wQktU07nUU0p56jD99Q+O2K5Y4X9cw/Dk4 pypw== jw+X2dEMyWyqKx6hVqA2ZJZehJqG Fri, 03 Apr 2020 14:36:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hpenvy2 (c-76-112-183-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net. [76.112.183.50]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j85sm7521161qke.20.2020.04.03.14.36.00 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 03 Apr 2020 14:36:00 -0700 (PDT) To: Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 17:35:55 -0400 Thread-Index: AdYJ/7WsQ/yLlgBaQrC2I2A2Q3TaQA== Content-Language: en-us Subject: [Shop-talk] Router From: Al Fuller via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============0400173436604658646== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_05F9_01D609DE.550F15D0" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_05F9_01D609DE.550F15D0 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tim - what are your requirements? Wi-Fi? 5MHz in addition to 2.4? or Wired only? Battery backup? How many ports does it need to support? Guest network required? VLANs required? QoS required or desired? Other? Aside from all those basics, I would recommend a vendor that makes it easy to change the default credentials, and other security processes. Something that automatically updates itself would be great, too. As noted by others, many ISPs offer to rent you a combination cable modem and router. You have the right to purchase your own qualifying cable modem [if cable is how you get your internet], and avoid paying the monthly fee. ---------------- All the best, Al Fuller ------=_NextPart_000_05F9_01D609DE.550F15D0 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Tim – what are your requirements? =

 

Wi-Fi? 5MHz in addition to 2.4? or Wired only? =

Battery backup?

How many ports does it need to = support?

Guest network = required?

VLANs = required?

QoS required or = desired?

Other?

 

Aside from = all those basics, I would recommend a vendor that makes it easy to = change the default credentials, and other security processes. Something = that automatically updates itself would be great, too.

 

As noted by = others, many ISPs offer to rent you a combination cable modem and = router. You have the right to purchase your own qualifying cable modem = [if cable is how you get your internet], and avoid paying the monthly = fee.

 

----------------

All the best,

 

Al = Fuller

 

------=_NextPart_000_05F9_01D609DE.550F15D0-- --===============0400173436604658646== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0400173436604658646==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 3 17:11:18 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75762A18BF for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 17:11:18 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ua1-f43.google.com (unknown [209.85.222.43]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A60DFA0F05 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 17:03:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-ua1-f43.google.com with SMTP id m15so2628837uao.3 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2020 16:03:16 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=TD1XQyrlKNFAowSjCKmX7NDh9AOYyu/k0GeHtKO5nF8=; b=GBvehmfyHNA2TQiDvtTWQRMhcfHJ0po1jbRbP8v8uhagwI8hrco8wOxJHkwyPtb0Bl ICMiqjY53/LYyldrz1GI/+7xkPDcsmj4HIZOQo5IXWWgcy3FEwcdz2EvU8A15E+yMcQW duxC3f/WyaYbjCpC7QHNcWP+2SfsLJY8ZVAPF/Ehemmnp1OJeAMC1VLaWrea4HP1UykB /e5KwztHAkrICH1fAAvxbOtClnPPqoLMiWpDR/GBKByd3hn5VdoNmu3hDUeDaHH7y51v 1C7fPQ20YQxAn5x9SdmKKE6YYROD2sP116hu5Un/QgiOjLQYaHi8P2vetkvYizMfP3gm cxDg== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=TD1XQyrlKNFAowSjCKmX7NDh9AOYyu/k0GeHtKO5nF8=; b=MZMSZ4Ovw6paPucLTP1CpD04PYm8+GqK196YZ4YIeEUELo4QtRZlDgO//ti+Uzwq9L zvqiX4Xe7Kbsz0+q1/9JOgjWgC1Mo4nEZ3lpZdG9Y+EnbGK+xf2mwprjqaz0IDGH/+kA mrd8Q9cqtRzARRhxeckkHi6lozAakQyv92ZKgltmGosOG2tzYOWdpiD+IjVJNPckqnnB RO/DNEtlazlQ2jGhIBr4HhjSVOGHYdqnYpfvp60tHJX2JS778WF5W8UEKc49e8xKBalh DvaWPdnDN4oerRkQJbxKGdXg6Vjc1G+2sphhhwGOX0jqS6FjMFpG2jYmVJy8/YCOZr+D rFZw== Zq7zyd9kJceUg6wVA2i88FhChjWL1Ea+PvhRBwpOERA= Fri, 03 Apr 2020 16:03:15 -0700 (PDT) References: <05f801d609ff$dc1fa460$945eed20$@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 18:02:37 -0500 To: Shop-Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Router From: Ronnie Day via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============1714175428355070613== --0000000000001dd7af05a26aecff Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Like Al said, list your requirements, then I'd draw a floorplan, too. Don't forget any smart TVs or other similar devices. There are some new wireless router protocols that look really interesting, however, IMO a WiFi connection is okay, but a poor substitute if a wired connection is at all available. Once you've figured out what you need, where, I'd check out the recommended wireless routers on both CNet.com and Tom's Hardware. We're stuck with HughesNet satt-based for the time being. We also are stuck using their wireless modem (at an additional $15/month-it's a racket!). ViaSat isn't any better, IMO. Currently we're on month to month hoping the Texas Rural Broadband Initiative with get off the ground sooner rather than later. The HughesNet modem has 4 gigabit ports on it in addition to providing 2G and 5G wifi. I've got my main desktop Mac and PC plugged directly into the modem, along with a NetGear R7000 and an 8 port gig switch. The NetGear has been rock solid and comes pre setup with an easier to remember WiFi password, which you can change if you want to. Hope this helps, RD On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 4:36 PM Al Fuller via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > Hi Tim =E2=80=93 what are your requirements? > > > > Wi-Fi? 5MHz in addition to 2.4? or Wired only? > > Battery backup? > > How many ports does it need to support? > > Guest network required? > > VLANs required? > > QoS required or desired? > > Other? > > > > Aside from all those basics, I would recommend a vendor that makes it eas= y > to change the default credentials, and other security processes. Somethin= g > that automatically updates itself would be great, too. > > > > As noted by others, many ISPs offer to rent you a combination cable modem > and router. You have the right to purchase your own qualifying cable mode= m > [if cable is how you get your internet], and avoid paying the monthly fee= . > > > > ---------------- > > All the best, > > > > Al Fuller > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com > > --0000000000001dd7af05a26aecff Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Like Al said, list your requirements, then I'd draw a = floorplan, too. Don't forget any smart TVs or other similar devices. Th= ere are some new wireless router protocols that look really interesting, ho= wever, IMO a WiFi connection is okay, but a poor substitute if a wired conn= ection is at all available. Once you've figured out what you need, wher= e, I'd check out the recommended=C2=A0wireless routers on both CNet.com= and Tom's Hardware.

We're stuck with HughesNet = satt-based for the time being. We also are stuck using their wireless modem= (at an additional $15/month-it's a racket!). ViaSat isn't any bett= er, IMO. Currently we're on month to month hoping the Texas Rural Broad= band Initiative with get off the ground sooner rather than later.

The HughesNet modem has 4 gigabit=C2=A0ports on it in addit= ion to providing 2G and 5G wifi. I've got my main desktop Mac and PC pl= ugged directly into the modem, along with a NetGear R7000 and an 8 port gig= switch. The NetGear has been rock solid and comes pre setup with an easier= to remember=C2=A0WiFi password, which you can change if you want to.

Hope this helps,
RD

On Fri, Apr 3, 2= 020 at 4:36 PM Al Fuller via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:

Hi Tim =E2=80=93= what are your requirements?

=C2=A0

Wi-Fi? 5MHz in addition to 2.4? o= r Wired only?

Battery backup?

How many ports does it need to support?=

Guest network required?<= /u>

VLANs required?

QoS required or desired?

Other?

=C2=A0

Aside from all those basics, I would recommend a vendor= that makes it easy to change the default credentials, and other security p= rocesses. Something that automatically updates itself would be great, too.<= u>

=C2=A0

As noted by others, many ISPs offer to rent you a combination c= able modem and router. You have the right to purchase your own qualifying c= able modem [if cable is how you get your internet], and avoid paying the mo= nthly fee.

=C2=A0

=

----------------

All the best,

=C2=A0=

Al Fuller

=C2=A0

_________________________________= ______________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/ronnie.day@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox= .team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com

--0000000000001dd7af05a26aecff-- --===============1714175428355070613== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1714175428355070613==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 3 18:38:59 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16F32A05AC for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 18:38:59 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-lj1-f170.google.com (unknown [209.85.208.170]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 453C8A020B for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 18:38:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-lj1-f170.google.com with SMTP id f20so8832018ljm.0 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2020 17:38:26 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=3OIffKy9sm/CqFZnbGxboaK5LQWLk5n9qUSIqeO5ssQ=; b=ZrwanlXMx+SzZrFvgvq6roKrPFcM95lyzpxfkxbfiwE2+HU6p7SH7j68pN+m9Q+Pru 2aE29R6rgGxsRmA1gM9vDhpcgeiURG0hJIHJ/VqvZUmAr0MZhYl9Xq/fMYQoRJO9x9sx di9d9Gs/h8OaYMtD7ohIAIad4hiHHsjIM4CtAUYhgU1+hXdvDe2m1n8lCU1IgIj+WBKf 3l7Oxh6EwgzGZUdtq2cTpHHab02Ketv/Ei7MLT3grjXBqVHkD5RsQy1FRDv6Cull0dnv vSYZnei4FwjWcjak1ZBVRfTYGPI/vXzaXsmiNPIRBbWenEfmHtEBkpgmLu6VFHn8LeVx AbDQ== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3OIffKy9sm/CqFZnbGxboaK5LQWLk5n9qUSIqeO5ssQ=; b=f4OpktffLXIrN8DXI4gG4jQeMlCFltYztMjwMexleg/XPEItIbx+hO4iTm6cXsx9+l R4GHe3LiS/7S9g6vdbWXhDq285A9wQrNnzz8qHzPQUVROVvpvo1nJFj/OEhDJ3wSYO2x q7bsxPeIylkZtcI/kTsjFJvrexPhqkA1STJhdx7Hr7jYxINxPhHO1D2URZl5QiwLoUk5 wFmR4nu8PeAUw4iMz7C0gKgATdi2+bT4rvESba1GagkoPE8ypu0JvSEid7fwbf6Kpprd FTpGvzP8k8EoAjdvU3mbvXoAioZ5VfcYOQJdLbOOnsVWq6sfleOi9gu2umxoWevYWBL3 wf6w== 8diJEH2wwN7778uecnQKz7pUCJL37rmtemEiZ6A= Fri, 03 Apr 2020 17:38:24 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 20:38:07 -0400 To: "Tim ." Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] need a new router From: Peter Murray via Shop-talk Cc: Shop Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3809503281624564090== --00000000000064a39405a26c40af Tim- The big question for you is what kind of internet connection you have. Based on the "old router" statement, I'd theorize you have a cable modem or DSL bridge, and have a standard ethernet-based router with a Public/WAN interface, and a group of ethernet ports bridged with your Access Point. If so, you've received some good advice here. The Mikrotik gear is commercial-grade, high quality, secure and will last a long while, but hasn't been, in my experience, very end-user friendly, but only because it is capable of so much. If you 're looking to invest in a decent router that you can use for the next several years, I'd look at mid-tier models from Netgear, TP-Link or Asus. The important item is that you receive software support for a good while, because that's what will go a long way towards keeping your home network protected from malware infections, etc. The routers themselves are computers, and there are wide swaths of infected home routers, due to exploited vulnerabilities in both their firmware and the hardware itself. Personally, I'm using a Ubiquiti UniFi USG, which is a commercial-grade managed 3-port router. I use two UniFi AP-AC-Pros in the house. Its what I deploy to my clients, so I better have it available to test updates before I update my clients. It isn't too expensive, but its more complexity than you likely are looking for in your domicile. I'd specifically look at this TP-Link: https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-AC1900-Smart-WiFi-Router/dp/B07NF3K74H. It is a newer model, so it'll be supported for several years. I've had several friends with the prior generation model (which has similarly good reviews on Amazon), so I'd expect it'll perform well for years. Happy to discuss further. ObShopContent: The network rack is in a corner of the shop! -Peter On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 12:38 PM Tim . via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > This working from home has proven to me that I finally need to replace my > very old router. > > I don't want to have to go shopping for it but also know that my computer > knowledge is dated and not even close to being up to date. > > So, I need recommendations for a good home router that will be easy to > configure. > > I am pretty sure that I can get up to 100MB speed from our ISP so want to > try to take advantage of that since both my wife and I are both working > from home. > > Thanks > stay healthy > tim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray@gmail.com > > --00000000000064a39405a26c40af Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tim-

The big question for you is what k= ind of internet connection you have. Based on the "old router" st= atement, I'd theorize you have a cable modem or DSL bridge, and have a = standard ethernet-based router with a Public/WAN interface, and a group of = ethernet ports bridged with your Access Point.

If = so, you've received some good advice here. The Mikrotik gear is commerc= ial-grade, high quality, secure and will last a long while, but hasn't = been, in my experience, very end-user friendly, but only because it is capa= ble of so much.=C2=A0

If you 're looking to in= vest in a decent router that you can use for the next several years, I'= d look at mid-tier models from Netgear, TP-Link or Asus. The important item= is that you receive software support for a good while, because that's = what will go a long way towards keeping your home network protected from ma= lware infections, etc. The routers themselves are computers, and there are = wide swaths of infected home routers, due to exploited vulnerabilities in b= oth their firmware and the hardware itself.

Person= ally, I'm using a Ubiquiti UniFi USG, which is a commercial-grade manag= ed 3-port router. I use two UniFi AP-AC-Pros in the house. Its what I deplo= y to my clients, so I better have it available to test updates before I upd= ate my clients. It isn't too expensive, but its more complexity than yo= u likely are looking for in your domicile.

I'd= specifically look at this TP-Link:=C2=A0https://www.amazon.com/TP-L= ink-AC1900-Smart-WiFi-Router/dp/B07NF3K74H. It is a newer model, so it&= #39;ll be supported for several years. I've had several friends with th= e prior generation model (which has similarly good reviews on Amazon), so I= 'd expect it'll perform well for years.

Ha= ppy to discuss further.=C2=A0

ObShopContent: The n= etwork rack is in a corner of the shop!

-Peter


On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 12:38 PM Tim . via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> = wrote:
This working from home has proven to me that I finally need to replace my v= ery old router.=C2=A0

I don't want to have to go shopping for it but also know that my comput= er knowledge is dated and not even close to being up to date.=C2=A0

So, I need recommendations for a good home router that will be easy to conf= igure.=C2=A0

I am pretty sure that I can get up to 100MB speed from our ISP so want to t= ry to take advantage of that since both my wife and I are both working from= home.=C2=A0

Thanks
stay healthy
tim
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/peterwmurray@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://aut= ox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/peterwmurray@gmail.com

--00000000000064a39405a26c40af-- --===============3809503281624564090== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3809503281624564090==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 4 07:28:05 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5BC4A124B for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 07:28:05 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from NAM02-CY1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (unknown [40.92.4.71]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ED78A1233 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 07:22:32 -0600 (MDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=eTLgA7UuQTdGJG4AkMLgCjHPLQXzZxi60jkphJnQfcmUOO9WpjxjUnSHCV0sk416pmCnXfA+M1etoIlGXdbmpIn5SbuGQ7SzVF8YPJBiyR5kwoLXsR+IBKFjpOIYDD7GHnFdGQXCpJ4/budoFdezHCvMN72p36D0kHJy2KrvZvCfnlqpSjaJwCYEZoXQI8MhNsfMhBEv/tzKxe8haSeGiAFhKFYmP2kDKmeuEMMXWvuT+uYOHxDZ2DlBEAJnQvx4DhWWu4fupaM8i099aZ1c08eYn3M1QF6NNAh7RbDhc+7RiFqt7xva0u94UQyYAsGKYhqAkQ531AmgVFpVqBCurg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=jIdofRnzEeJHQCt7YVQurODIuQSB7F00H+TPu1HbyyM=; b=kOLj2GjIrokhusl/YwB7f45anuc1DDmPGywm3rrzi+MNiygXCKc5qerYEmz/Klzw2+v3QB8h737XWM5BwPL6xou+MSGb5+x8FUfNQ28vN5WkvUN4UnWjVsUVh+gOTyZI4t4dF5D2KjEOkV2lfmIrKvZ1KloIt5y9u1kz7zb4LqxU5SP3uSyzUshBScfRZIQtZkznIQEgp7j/2ZscLJvD2lSfaVuH9nSxLfHfUQ3++2V+ST2taF0Z9MjdXQrneStOf5kz2D9Z5Li3E7XE0YsV5I0Y2JkXhxUrHr0Vs6aNkgtbUGdKawjoVHvI4sMzFcZQ6p7YusFIG/BAKf1kQKIuaA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=none; dmarc=none; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=jIdofRnzEeJHQCt7YVQurODIuQSB7F00H+TPu1HbyyM=; b=PSdm0YxadVinxBZnChcO/6UhodsQghEAtCGnW/B3weI6wgKRJbDVwUu5o+0A0K8SfyYQyRQ0cGvegNcZ7U+TV6ItgguKs5gO3/vRCk1YivQI1vR8KWOOKHy5CmRMg8A2EV2++2ybouCYwV2vRFvmta1/+N80JUngdh4uu6i9A8Bb2VwGJNRGNikwUKFFrlbS9aqockD1KTWSxkT4vEBid0apd3ho0FVqewyc2hgqAIdMaDIAOsTDMDqlNVPXIBktyVCNZOGA4w0oqnWW8w1GZs1ktXLQ0w1wfk2nZllWm6btqVMkqMZR8Ju2TXwSQG+5LqvTaDUNpvmN4P6U+URhLw== Received: from SN1NAM02FT026.eop-nam02.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.72.59) by SN1NAM02HT157.eop-nam02.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.73.87) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2878.15; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 13:22:31 +0000 Received: from CH2PR04MB6505.namprd04.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e44::40) by SN1NAM02FT026.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e44::97) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2878.15 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 13:22:31 +0000 Received: from CH2PR04MB6505.namprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c59f:ecdf:87cc:cefd]) by CH2PR04MB6505.namprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c59f:ecdf:87cc:cefd%6]) with mapi id 15.20.2878.014; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 13:22:30 +0000 To: "Shop Talk" , "Tim ." Thread-Topic: need a new router Thread-Index: AQHWCdW7l50qUZBlPESgpgegwoL4J6ho8h1u Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2020 13:22:30 +0000 References: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:A744D1C6713771CAC059BF12622384FAD157E99EBACA11AEAC8AE243B862A3A7; UpperCasedChecksum:B68C2CB9A16BE279CC03F9A1386257E85D668B1FAC219FFB98E39C0AD1C773FE; SizeAsReceived:6928; Count:45 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [lTJmQR2eAeTUUCpnlCXyc3lJdpg1oOe1] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-incomingheadercount: 45 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: fdfcf5fa-1ff6-4335-9013-08d7d89b3a64 x-ms-exchange-slblob-mailprops: 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 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SN1NAM02HT157: x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: wh64vOHKHPP4wOYK7z+UcZz/CoqP4nyxfxAg5NorqhA3LTzdQvFRFDsL7L0BCOpXkKStpjWIy4TGVqeOv0mGQ55w1V1xpVt92L8eE/IM73T//JbkyX0AvrAWpfqFq9NSxIlViyzKP1ygMx2LaCMzua98imZc2RLGF4cToE6x42tTPckGYanx6jXtUTAP6vow x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:0; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:CH2PR04MB6505.namprd04.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:; DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: qaclvxHLQyvjNk8C3F8JnG8f6DH1h9smwG5zCXVrnEf8E7/LnAqvtZVgyqk6saHbmvfRPWjiqRQZ4UEiLvI9bxID4mULqkxoDs+HHmbofrXpzTS/bFXkYhrlSxlT/PowK/blfA03bRA9lrKhziGK5g== x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] need a new router From: "Tim . via Shop-talk" Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8629019573843462411== Content-Language: en-US boundary="_000_CH2PR04MB6505477F116DF20548B9A833B4C40CH2PR04MB6505namp_" --_000_CH2PR04MB6505477F116DF20548B9A833B4C40CH2PR04MB6505namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the replies. Here is more information. "Does your ISP not provide the router? What exactly is it they provide? Ju= st a bare cable hanging out of the wall?" Yes. It's the coax that also fee= ds the TV. Their router costs too much every month. They already bleed me f= or the internet access. "What are your requirements?" Not sure on the MHz part. What would be reco= mmended? We don't need guest access, two to three laptops, a couple smart phones. N= o smart TV yet. Once we need a new flat screen, it will be a smart TV. Ever= ything wireless since the modem is in the basement. CNet.com and Tom's Hardware. I=92ll check these two out for the units that= you call can recommend. I'll be buying based on what you all suggest. thanks again tim ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of Tim . via S= hop-talk Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 11:38 AM To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] need a new router This working from home has proven to me that I finally need to replace my v= ery old router. I don't want to have to go shopping for it but also know that my computer k= nowledge is dated and not even close to being up to date. So, I need recommendations for a good home router that will be easy to conf= igure. I am pretty sure that I can get up to 100MB speed from our ISP so want to t= ry to take advantage of that since both my wife and I are both working from= home. Thanks stay healthy tim --_000_CH2PR04MB6505477F116DF20548B9A833B4C40CH2PR04MB6505namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks=  for the replies. Here is more information. 

"Does your ISP not provide the router?=   What exactly is it they provide? Jus= t a bare cable hanging out of the wall?" Yes.  It's the coax that a= lso feeds the TV. Their router costs too much every month. They already bleed me for the internet = access.

 "What are your requirements?&q= uot; Not sure on the MHz part. What would be recommended?

 We don't need guest access, two to = three laptops, a couple smart phones. No smart TV yet. Once we need a new f= lat screen, it will be a smart TV. Everything wireless since the modem is in the basement.

 CNet.com and Tom's Hardware. I=92ll= check these two out for the units that you call can recommend. I'll be buy= ing based on what you all suggest.

thanks again

tim




From: Shop-talk <shop-ta= lk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . via Shop-talk <shop-tal= k@autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 11:38 AM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] need a new router
 
This working from home has proven to me that I finally need to replace my v= ery old router. 

I don't want to have to go shopping for it but also know that my computer k= nowledge is dated and not even close to being up to date. 

So, I need recommendations for a good home router that will be easy to conf= igure. 

I am pretty sure that I can get up to 100MB speed from our ISP so want to t= ry to take advantage of that since both my wife and I are both working from= home. 

Thanks
stay healthy
tim
--_000_CH2PR04MB6505477F116DF20548B9A833B4C40CH2PR04MB6505namp_-- --===============8629019573843462411== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8629019573843462411==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 4 07:33:09 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EACDBA1249 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 07:33:09 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-vk1-f182.google.com (unknown [209.85.221.182]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA1E6A1227 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 07:33:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-vk1-f182.google.com with SMTP id f195so2420920vka.4 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2020 06:33:06 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=3bh7SisOwHDICO12wGZjMCi2cFTEjNe/+hZ8xUufh94=; b=b0SZ4acBpeDzjkCVws5IoQaM5D0lCYUi7SoTbHNtAew+6+Ba9OMYemPLbFae4S0vVZ i1O65JFI98oFnEBaUdR73dKmfGUXR9eLJ05b4t4kTQyWhGeLUSa8r4xWaqAlwq5cKmdo R4yCDn8baVQJ7SKcQcNdWz+pvm1AH0d1eZSc4magMstoHRjvy7eTn3H9DF5d8B/EV88/ kADOTZ8aRyGULkjYpWc/W592QE6edsvBMOQcMK+VydKtHSagADcY/CXcOnAHxLUrLJo5 8XyLTTwgejeIjh4WWwoPl/ES9wu+aT48h6flyQZKWglXf0iFHosS4Bz4L4yPu0zbB5sP o2dA== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3bh7SisOwHDICO12wGZjMCi2cFTEjNe/+hZ8xUufh94=; b=jpiQafJK+Yeh9pkR6jpmzc7qEp5V86VyfVbAsBQxpya/L2Im8VUxtHuAafOT7HDKxm Ff38/tFckHbeEZT/enRqTIyAkMHR9klYkDpkLeMOoRUmXYI4Kw4tJOuPzM1NrePCPMu0 PaYUiINo/aG7SgJhP6svX/awZvyUuZdBfJPiHwz65dw4K9xRE8xMbQSQNjJEB8g1c77J BiVxva9undWp9idyKWSAszfaDuj80Be8IfJxv5b1AcYVdUazo/uFEqcjcZiglYkcVXc/ aRQXJOxhUU9b1AmM61rZQzlbL+05+O7PekJ9AkuMei/e8a0HVgJjuYsVxh25j9Nm618B z8PQ== iZ7duDekDOqORA/U7ES4YbJny+3pns9aAL5wDNPHudNg Sat, 04 Apr 2020 06:33:06 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2020 09:32:54 -0400 To: "Tim ." Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] need a new router From: Larry Spector via Shop-talk Cc: Shop Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============4787372283041441296== --000000000000f02be105a2771269 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can you share the make/model of what you have now? I suspect it may be a combination cable modem/router, which is a little different from a straight up router. -Larry On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 9:28 AM Tim . via Shop-talk wrote: > Thanks for the replies. Here is more information. > > "Does your ISP not provide the router? What exactly is it they provide? > Just a bare cable hanging out of the wall?" Yes. It's the coax that also > feeds the TV. Their router costs too much every month. They already bleed > me for the internet access. > > "What are your requirements?" Not sure on the MHz part. What would be > recommended? > > We don't need guest access, two to three laptops, a couple smart phones. > No smart TV yet. Once we need a new flat screen, it will be a smart TV. > Everything wireless since the modem is in the basement. > > CNet.com and Tom's Hardware. I=E2=80=99ll check these two out for the un= its that > you call can recommend. I'll be buying based on what you all suggest. > > thanks again > > tim > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Shop-talk on behalf of Tim . > via Shop-talk > *Sent:* Friday, April 3, 2020 11:38 AM > *To:* Shop Talk > *Subject:* [Shop-talk] need a new router > > This working from home has proven to me that I finally need to replace my > very old router. > > I don't want to have to go shopping for it but also know that my computer > knowledge is dated and not even close to being up to date. > > So, I need recommendations for a good home router that will be easy to > configure. > > I am pretty sure that I can get up to 100MB speed from our ISP so want to > try to take advantage of that since both my wife and I are both working > from home. > > Thanks > stay healthy > tim > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/lspector@gmail.com > > --000000000000f02be105a2771269 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Can you share the make/model of what you have now? I suspe= ct it may be a combination cable modem/router, which is a little different = from a straight up router.

-Larry

On Sat, Apr 4, 20= 20 at 9:28 AM Tim . via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:

Thanks=C2=A0for the replies. Here is more information.=C2=A0=

"Does your ISP not provide the router?=C2=A0 What exactly is it they provide? Just = a bare cable hanging out of the wall?" Yes.=C2=A0 It's the coax that als= o feeds the TV.=C2=A0Their router costs too much every month. They already bleed me for the internet = access.

=C2=A0"What are your requirements?" Not sure on the MHz par= t. What would be recommended?

=C2=A0We don't need guest access, two to three laptops, a couple = smart phones. No smart TV yet. Once we need a new flat screen, it will be a= smart TV. Everything wireless since the modem is in the basement.

=C2=A0CNet.com and Tom's Hardware. I=E2=80=99ll check these two o= ut for the units that you call can recommend. I'll be buying based on w= hat you all suggest.

thanks=C2=A0again

tim




From= : Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Tim . = via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 11:38 AM
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] need a new router
=C2=A0
This working from home has proven to me that I finally need to replace my v= ery old router.=C2=A0

I don't want to have to go shopping for it but also know that my comput= er knowledge is dated and not even close to being up to date.=C2=A0

So, I need recommendations for a good home router that will be easy to conf= igure.=C2=A0

I am pretty sure that I can get up to 100MB speed from our ISP so want to t= ry to take advantage of that since both my wife and I are both working from= home.=C2=A0

Thanks
stay healthy
tim
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/lspector@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.t= eam.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/lspector@gmail.com

--000000000000f02be105a2771269-- --===============4787372283041441296== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============4787372283041441296==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 4 08:43:27 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BA35A1318 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 08:43:27 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qv1-f45.google.com (unknown [209.85.219.45]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6246A12D7 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 08:40:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-qv1-f45.google.com with SMTP id bp12so5131745qvb.7 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2020 07:40:02 -0700 (PDT) h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=RCzDk7w0ay4i0GrMhkwbT7U3qkRXTnmncFc98Yp5FNs=; b=a7zSU3XPswQjf0FSzDQ8nnF3v2kxic+Q0o3su/m7zmZvNFmVW2e4utsG6JKOljoRHF C+CRQqWWMGQwe2p6ktdhgT3E4JiMWMt9ab1xMiX8VtmYo6pjWB/8cRadiJhAQF9SbJpr CRFe8n6NzbY0gebbDqmH4bmTI7zhd+/MgO191bQpoTPq6Hox90OGDhDgvMj7K4usaipt RtdvGFvSw1Tw9jCXaqsiyDTA+Eqj4bcW9QZm0M8zNWHqAyCB+nUfqQuFQXoaMz3LU+VK w7cyUxKDasck+XaXEWLxp9OG4sQnqtPvukF3Rde4iNuKs15HyYF0NNykz+OcBkjSSHwY N5Jg== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=RCzDk7w0ay4i0GrMhkwbT7U3qkRXTnmncFc98Yp5FNs=; b=DvjpFGHld8YmHdXfMA7k23NbwK7j/at47p/q0TaCjiZ+n10m2YT/+30uDlAKTmtFjd T05oDMBESLZjQdILDFwQ+V1vMxAvAqxEj/7CkPhrum5aCx0/FRMJzK58WGoQg4FRz56L x8rE4ag6mR6NkV6MNxwkq/BSz6Hd6JT0g6BaWR/r+NwCk7TGyT4IwNfexXhhjf9wJ+GP JGd6su2+ePtspxGH0mBw3D3gSA8gpy47ZKkBYPgkY25TKQUE1ja9TxR/Y5Q3gWyNA+No nWgx81MO9gfYdxda/ldUwegxNcJ81Bxh0gkg1eC6EjvE8FejiMqtH4hTjT7u6F8arL1g O8+g== Tx9yzeid/z5qp51hdBHs9wSnBRRQ Sat, 04 Apr 2020 07:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hpenvy2 (c-76-112-183-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net. [76.112.183.50]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v76sm9429163qka.32.2020.04.04.07.40.00 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 04 Apr 2020 07:40:00 -0700 (PDT) To: References: Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2020 10:39:59 -0400 Thread-Index: AQGOJpqT5iQAuAWaRN4GT0w7O0XYJwI6Ox8OqOb83XA= Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] need a new router From: Al Fuller via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============4905881920439983130== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0040_01D60A6D.645B33E0" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01D60A6D.645B33E0 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tim: As regards Wi-Fi, current wireless routers broadcast on two frequencies (2.4 + 5 MHz). There are a lot of factors, but the basics are that 5 Mhz give better speed but lower wall penetration. 2.4 MHz gives lower speed, but better wall penetration and hence wider coverage through the building, yard, shop, etc. That said, as mentioned before - wired connections always perform better than wireless, so any devices like desktops, laptops, TVs, etc that can be hard wired will do better with an ethernet cable than with Wi-Fi. ---------------- All the best, Al Fuller From: Shop-talk On Behalf Of Tim . via Shop-talk Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2020 9:23 AM To: Shop Talk ; Tim . Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] need a new router Thanks for the replies. Here is more information. "Does your ISP not provide the router? What exactly is it they provide? Just a bare cable hanging out of the wall?" Yes. It's the coax that also feeds the TV. Their router costs too much every month. They already bleed me for the internet access. "What are your requirements?" Not sure on the MHz part. What would be recommended? We don't need guest access, two to three laptops, a couple smart phones. No smart TV yet. Once we need a new flat screen, it will be a smart TV. Everything wireless since the modem is in the basement. CNet.com and Tom's Hardware. I'll check these two out for the units that you call can recommend. I'll be buying based on what you all suggest. thanks again tim _____ From: Shop-talk

Tim:

 

As regards = Wi-Fi, current wireless routers broadcast on two frequencies (2.4 + 5 = MHz).

 

There are a lot of factors, but the basics are that 5 = Mhz give better speed but lower wall penetration. 2.4 MHz gives lower = speed, but better wall penetration and hence wider coverage through the = building, yard, shop, etc…

 

That said, = as mentioned before – wired connections always perform better than = wireless, so any devices like desktops, laptops, TVs, etc that can be = hard wired will do better with an ethernet cable than with = Wi-Fi.

 

----------------

All the best,

 

Al = Fuller

 

From: Shop-talk = <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Tim . via = Shop-talk
Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2020 9:23 AM
To: = Shop Talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>; Tim . = <tims_datsun_stuff@outlook.com>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] = need a new router

 

Thanks for = the replies. Here is more information. 

"Does your = ISP not provide the router?  What exactly is it they provide? Just = a bare cable hanging out of the wall?" Yes.  It's the coax = that also feeds the TV. Their router costs too much every month. = They already bleed me for the internet access.

 "What are = your requirements?" Not sure on the MHz part. What would be = recommended?

 We don't need = guest access, two to three laptops, a couple smart phones. No smart TV = yet. Once we need a new flat screen, it will be a smart TV. Everything = wireless since the modem is in the basement.

 CNet.com and = Tom's Hardware. I’ll check these two out for the units that you = call can recommend. I'll be buying based on what you all = suggest.

thanks again

tim

 <= /span>

 

<= div>

 

=

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.= team.net> on behalf of Tim . via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>=
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 11:38 AM
To: Shop Talk = <shop-talk@autox.team.net>=
Subject: [Shop-talk] need a new router

 

This working from home has proven = to me that I finally need to replace my very old = router. 

 

=

I = don't want to have to go shopping for it but also know that my computer = knowledge is dated and not even close to being up to = date. 

 

=

So, I need recommendations for a = good home router that will be easy to = configure. 

 

=

I = am pretty sure that I can get up to 100MB speed from our ISP so want to = try to take advantage of that since both my wife and I are both working = from home. 

 

=

Thanks

=

stay = healthy

tim

------=_NextPart_000_0040_01D60A6D.645B33E0-- --===============4905881920439983130== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============4905881920439983130==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 4 10:20:54 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0879FA11EE for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 10:20:54 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qv1-f43.google.com (unknown [209.85.219.43]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAB3DA1274 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 16:01:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-qv1-f43.google.com with SMTP id ef12so614751qvb.11 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2020 15:01:41 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=32U3KOGCQPcrNEzxrXQ3yU+hdKIop1ZUKbNU5XJF3r0=; b=FxP63oget8Q53Xrw4PBS90Q7BBiJuZ/zSjpaa8zr+rJBCRzazToevdNAXZ29Z+28gt WPYxR4GewWLGOxpIV6STO3RYGstVTWV5QZyxr+6j6n+v9DkQap5W6pGW6dPSlzPmc0kx jHhfnAa795C6U3kE7GNUpZ5nm7hQcdVdariWpDVEmbeyoz9uxD5+6dHDWApW04IU/04F umIiuzjiSkZa77KZj0kGWpnswUaRNijBAvvmRWa9puNznK11w2rdODTotM8yA45NQrX/ 2kFvF54wMQNRehFGKNruvLrGQIdu7LZgWGi+iODKl9qSbpW2L0EydqX42L9uASDAvsfc hf4g== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=32U3KOGCQPcrNEzxrXQ3yU+hdKIop1ZUKbNU5XJF3r0=; b=dPBgejZxqEDfKVhXfgBKl5WpOTdeDOsClcVMYC/3RZG1WuedavXK9xkGuhnvfnZgfn NovIcZGkrvP8q8wopj1RmCtBjGAKSldHSz2xcjHB0SVWfZUZh5a0VvSvvBimi7KM6gdp iBUICjhMwmLY0wDAR/CTQOk39nCFZQXN0Uo5k4YGBL66UwKvrIWUVPkEB1rXJNm8RksF boaIgUPsWJxwD6QI88lvd1rSGsjws7EPljRijQbuwsAkvMfweEp9idkCA3ucf26IA7Xz BabcoXuTSXlp1Y8jMg3oJQqqk9nAO65tvSiDlmjGwf2WATeCFNtuwxNhksP9+0xDf56+ /kGg== EuJGkpp60w3LKSQJHQGCf652vpYPgxZTe0lZMRQ= Wed, 01 Apr 2020 15:01:41 -0700 (PDT) References: <1031304452.38386.1585582490874@connect.xfinity.com> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 18:01:05 -0400 To: Paul Parkanzky Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: Tom Jones via Shop-talk Cc: Philip Ethier via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============6010249939221449376== --0000000000003f624e05a241d4c8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There are a few things to consider. If a bear is your adversary, then a large caliber handgun is needed to get the penetration to stop their advancement. .357 magnum, 10 mm or 44 magnum, or a .30 caliber rifle or 12ga shotgun with slugs. Anything less just may focus your adversary=E2=80=99s attention on you and really make them mad. Where are you most likely to be located when a visitor would appear and where would your firearm be? Are you back to the door working at a bench or machine tool, under a car lift or on the floor on a creeper? Will you be able to reach your firearm and access it before your visitor reaches you? You don=E2=80=99t want them to corner you where you have no means of escape= . Access will determine the type of secure storage you=E2=80=99ll need. Carrying is = fine if you use a good quality holster with retention and trigger protection. Not sure how you would present the gun on a creeper under a car though. What direction would you most likely be firing? Towards your house or your neighbors house? No matter what you chose to use, what=E2=80=99s behind you= r potential target is your 2nd, hitting your target is the first and biggest headache. Revolvers are fine and most can be had in stainless as well as shotguns made for boating use. A lot of semi autos have stainless slides and barrels. Yes, maintenance, cleaning and oiling will be necessary. Even stainless firearms have carbon steel parts that need protected. A can of bear spray may provide enough of a diversion for your visitor so you can get out of harms way. Hopefully you keep a cell phone or landline phone close, heaven forbid, you have a run in and need help. It may be safer to close the door and find another means of fresh air and ventilation. On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 3:54 PM Paul Parkanzky via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > I don't think a revolver is a poor choice but there's no way I'd store > an expensive revolver like that in the garage. > > I agree with other commenters that say that if he doesn't have any > intention of carrying the firearm that there's no reason to compromise > with a handgun. I'd choose either a cheap AR-pattern rifle or an > inexpensive shotgun in one of Hornady's rapidsafe wall mounts or a > similar secured wall mount. > > -Paul > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 10:50 AM Thomas FitzGibbon via Shop-talk > wrote: > > > > Eric, > > > > I second the stainless steel revolver recommendation, maybe a Colt > Python in .357 magnum. I'd be concerned that a semi-auto would be more > sensitive to that kind of environment, but either way it should not be to= o > challenging. Desiccant packs are going to be critical, especially to > protect the ammo as the gun itself should be OK with a light coat of oil. > > > > Good luck. > > > > Tom > > > > On March 29, 2020 at 8:38 PM Philip Ethier via Shop-talk < > shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > > > > I'd recommend a stainless double-action revolver, attached to your > person in a holster designed to make it impossible for the cylinder to > revolve until the weapon is removed from the holster. > > > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 12:58 PM eric--- via Shop-talk < > shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > > > > Ok, I know I've asked some weird questions before, but I think this one > will take the cake. > > > > I live out in the country, and often work well into the night with a > large shop door open. With having bears, coyotes and other large animals > in the area, I got to thinking, it might be a good idea to keep a pistol = in > the garage to scare off any would be 'late night snackers." > > Actually, I had a run-in the other night that made me think about this. > > > > So my question is, if I have a pistol, in a rapid access safe in a shop > environment, what factors should I consider? I understand that humidity > will play a huge role, as will dust (I have to see how 'sealed' the safe > is.) > > > > Is there anything I'm missing that I should consider? I understand tha= t > I will most likely have to clean the weapon often, but is there anything = I > need to think about? > > > > Also, I'm open to suggestions for a weapon type. I thinking an XD-M > elite polymer hand gun. With mostly composite parts. Similar to a Glock= . > (Note, I don't have anything against Glock, I just never owned one. I do > have and love my XD however, so Glock isn't out of consideration.) > > > > I don't want this to turn into a 2nd amendment thread. Just a 'what to > consider' for leaving a pistol in a shop. > > > > Note, in my shop I do just about everything, metal work, wood work, car > and heavy equipment work, etc. > > > > Thanks in advance. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/t.w.jones1@gmail.com > > --0000000000003f624e05a241d4c8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ther= e are a few things to consider.

If a bear i= s your adversary, then a large caliber handgun is needed to get the penetra= tion to stop their advancement. .357 magnum, 10 mm or 44 magnum, or a .30 c= aliber rifle or 12ga shotgun with slugs.=C2=A0 Anything less just may focus= your adversary=E2=80=99s attention on you and really make them mad.

Where are you most likely to be located when a vi= sitor would appear and where would your firearm be?=C2=A0 Are you back to t= he door working at a bench or machine tool, under a car lift or on the floo= r on a creeper? Will you be able to reach your firearm and access it before= your visitor reaches you? You don=E2=80=99t want them to corner you where = you have no means of escape. Access will determine the type of secure stora= ge you=E2=80=99ll need. Carrying is fine if you use a good quality holster = with retention and trigger protection. Not sure how you would present the g= un on a creeper under a car though.

What di= rection would you most likely be firing? Towards your house or your neighbo= rs house? No matter what you chose to use, what=E2=80=99s behind your poten= tial target is your 2nd, hitting your target is the first and bi= ggest headache.

Revolvers are fine and most= can be had in stainless as well as shotguns made for boating use. A lot of= semi autos have stainless slides and barrels. Yes, maintenance, cleaning a= nd oiling will be necessary. Even stainless firearms have carbon steel part= s that need protected.

A can of bear spray = may provide enough of a diversion for your visitor so you can get out of ha= rms way.

Hopefully you keep a cell phone or= landline phone close, heaven forbid, you have a run in and need help.

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 8pt;line-height:19.046px;font= -family:Calibri,sans-serif">It may be safer to close the door and find anot= her means of fresh air and ventilation.


On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 3:5= 4 PM Paul Parkanzky via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
I don't think a revolver is a poor cho= ice but there's no way I'd store
an expensive revolver like that in the garage.

I agree with other commenters that say that if he doesn't have any
intention of carrying the firearm that there's no reason to compromise<= br> with a handgun. I'd choose either a cheap AR-pattern rifle or an
inexpensive shotgun in one of Hornady's rapidsafe wall mounts or a
similar secured wall mount.

-Paul

On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 10:50 AM Thomas FitzGibbon via Shop-talk
<shop-talk= @autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> Eric,
>
> I second the stainless steel revolver recommendation, maybe a Colt Pyt= hon in .357 magnum.=C2=A0 I'd be concerned that a semi-auto would be mo= re sensitive to that kind of environment, but either way it should not be t= oo challenging.=C2=A0 Desiccant packs are going to be critical, especially = to protect the ammo as the gun itself should be OK with a light coat of oil= .
>
> Good luck.
>
> Tom
>
> On March 29, 2020 at 8:38 PM Philip Ethier via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team= .net> wrote:
>
> I'd recommend a stainless double-action revolver, attached to your= person in a holster designed to make it impossible for the cylinder to rev= olve until the weapon is removed from the holster.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 12:58 PM eric--- via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.ne= t> wrote:
>
> Ok, I know I've asked some weird questions before, but I think thi= s one will take the cake.
>
> I live out in the country, and often work well into the night with a l= arge shop door open.=C2=A0 With having bears, coyotes and other large anima= ls in the area, I got to thinking, it might be a good idea to keep a pistol= in the garage to scare off any would be 'late night snackers." > Actually, I had a run-in the other night that made me think about this= .
>
> So my question is, if I have a pistol, in a rapid access safe in a sho= p environment, what factors should I consider?=C2=A0 I understand that humi= dity will play a huge role, as will dust (I have to see how 'sealed'= ; the safe is.)
>
> Is there anything I'm missing that I should consider?=C2=A0 I unde= rstand that I will most likely have to clean the weapon often, but is there= anything I need to think about?
>
> Also, I'm open to suggestions for a weapon type.=C2=A0 I thinking = an XD-M elite polymer hand gun.=C2=A0 With mostly composite parts.=C2=A0 Si= milar to a Glock.=C2=A0 (Note, I don't have anything against Glock, I j= ust never owned one.=C2=A0 I do have and love my XD however, so Glock isn&#= 39;t out of consideration.)
>
> I don't want this to turn into a 2nd amendment thread.=C2=A0 Just = a 'what to consider' for leaving a pistol in a shop.
>
> Note, in my shop I do just about everything, metal work, wood work, ca= r and heavy equipment work, etc.
>
> Thanks in advance.
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/t.w.jones1@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox= .team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/t.w.jones1@gmail.com

--0000000000003f624e05a241d4c8-- --===============6010249939221449376== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============6010249939221449376==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 4 10:26:30 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD5E2A13FB for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 10:26:30 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pg1-f169.google.com (unknown [209.85.215.169]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60443A1234 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 16:23:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-pg1-f169.google.com with SMTP id k5so2527451pga.2 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 15:23:47 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=2m0P2zsBnJnRqLEUZ1FFkayNQUwILEteU4SE/pLJ/wQ=; b=pmXBgTlz/qTDdJd7TWakjEr6R48IAhJ+fIFuJln8aNH0X/GNYY32kIEZt5dNQqHfE0 Zz5coV2+B3fKxR6nb8uyULJSWeiWIJQjJFys5nF8sMYWE+OrjV4YtEYisY6gQnzZOt+a niURvHWyclhV7mMBFkNC5E+1wSg4JGoowfsp3KyF0oHkaYAHs/kkAQFLYqtO+gVC+nEd BRURd/1+MaDjzoCK064CichheWkpxBSo+iXs1kYhfz7HtiHfWluA1eTpseo6oSGoSIW9 p+ZzMpgVmt8qHk8SfpXEqY5/6y06kfYkv99jmEuIJ0SGbP3HPtro5r6v1mU0qA1cu3OD FFrA== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2m0P2zsBnJnRqLEUZ1FFkayNQUwILEteU4SE/pLJ/wQ=; b=MCnFEyauhPAXPffmA7x2pP3j/OScZ2G0p2NKcVnQ4AdxW2xJ+8RFavifEhgW//dOxP eMcO/Ye8dSNLaCFTYTIElKnJ+NP6E8vNySEOWk0m1wGa7AJ+vhkmSNKsSP9FUj+wH655 Gpl7iL0HnxgKgX8MqeVvvpB6KEdHuv7ujuXUUKEXFFyrOUyxiTn4a00PexIvRTr0kf5w LJTlzzwV+0xL4xqSf1krb3fbgc742WX4tmOlm8AdbxhITWiy6hgO5yNyX6LLaCGlxUzK VBjxYJzTX6FOnz6IA0r+HGtp8diWZc6SGKfHWUcQ+4oGKWmZ+9DtxTuWvwUEf/vW6/n9 p+Eg== GwMhSu+7VIeN8aMQKhF71WJd2zM1azKd5AWgH2Y= Thu, 02 Apr 2020 15:23:46 -0700 (PDT) References: <52.E5.07714.E70568E5@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 18:23:35 -0400 To: miq@bigllama.com Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: "J.C. Hassall via Shop-talk" Cc: Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8614471228034044550== --00000000000017b14a05a2564131 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interesting statistics. What are the death stats of being shot by some woman's irate husband? jim On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 5:45 PM Miq Millman via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > That's probably because in order to catch rabies from a bear bite, you 'd > have to survive the bear attack. Survival rate from a bear attack seems = to > vary, but it's not very good. Bear attacks are pretty rare in and of > themselves (chances are about 1 in 2ish million), plus there have been le= ss > than half a dozen cases of rabies in bears in the last 20 years. > > # OF DEATHS IN THE UNITED STATES PER YEAR > > Cause of death =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2= =80=A6 # dead > Cardiovascular disease =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.. 856,030 > Transportation accidents ...=E2=80=A6. 48,441 > COVID-19...................................4520*** > Drowning =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6= =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.. 3,582 > Hypothermia =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6..=E2= =80=A6=E2=80=A6699 > West Nile virus =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6..=E2=80=A6.= . 119 > Hornet/bee/wasp stings =E2=80=A6......... 48.5 > Snake bites =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.=E2=80= =A6.=E2=80=A6.. 5.2 > Bear attacks =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.............=E2=80=A6..= 2 > > > ***so far > > Eric, maybe just stop eating bacon in the shop, that will save you from > heart disease and keep the bears away. > > -- > __ > Miq Millman miq@bigllama.com > Tualatin, OR Big Llama Productions > > > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > <#m_98942276440706882_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 1:47 PM Steven Trovato via Shop-talk < > shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > >> I realize that this is not what this exchange is really about, but it >> got me wondering about rabies in bears. Apparently it is possible, >> but very rare. According to humanesociety.org: People have little >> to fear in terms of catching diseases or parasites from bears. As >> warm-blooded animals, bears can get rabies, but it is very rare. >> There are no known cases of a person catching rabies from a bear. >> >> -Steve T. >> >> At 03:14 PM 4/2/2020, Randall via Shop-talk wrote: >> >> > > I am struggling to picture the situation where a "big enough >> > > to be dangerous" wild animal comes into a noisy shop by >> > > choice. >> > >> >Ever hear of rabies ? Just like people, wild animals aren't always >> >rational. >> > >> >-- Randall >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> > >> >Shop-talk@autox.team.net >> >Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> >Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> >Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> > >> >Unsubscribe/Manage: >> >http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/strovato@optonline.net >> >> >> -- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/miq@bigllama.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jhassall@gmail.com > > --=20 W4BEA The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson I sometimes feel bad for the smart people - being simple-minded and easily entertained is totally the way to go! ;-) J. Stoll --00000000000017b14a05a2564131 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Interesting statistics.=C2=A0 What are the death stats of = being shot by some woman's irate husband?=C2=A0=C2=A0

</humor attempt>

jim=C2=A0=C2=A0

On T= hu, Apr 2, 2020 at 5:45 PM Miq Millman via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
=
That'= ;s probably because in order to catch rabies from a bear bite, you 'd h= ave to survive the bear attack.=C2=A0 Survival rate from a bear attack seem= s to vary, but it's not very good.=C2=A0 Bear attacks=C2=A0are pretty r= are in and of themselves (chances are about 1 in 2ish million), plus there = have been less than half a dozen cases of rabies in bears in the last 20 ye= ars.=C2=A0=C2=A0

# OF DEATHS IN THE UNITED STATES PER YE= AR

Cause of death =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2= =80=A6=E2=80=A6 # dead
Cardiovascular disease =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.. 856,0= 30
Transportation accidents ...=E2=80=A6. 48,441
COVID-19.....= ..............................4520***=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0
Drowning =E2=80= =A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6= .. 3,582
Hypothermia =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80= =A6..=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6699
West Nile virus =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6= =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6..=E2=80=A6.. 119
Hornet/bee/wasp stings =E2=80=A6....= ..... 48.5
Snake bites =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2= =80=A6.=E2=80=A6.=E2=80=A6.. 5.2
Bear attacks =E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80= =A6=E2=80=A6.............=E2=80=A6.. 2


<= div>***so far

Eric, maybe just stop eating bacon i= n the shop, that will save you from heart disease and keep the bears away.<= /div>

--
__
Miq Millman= =C2=A0=C2=A0 miq@bigl= lama.com
Tualatin, OR=C2=A0 Big Llama Productions

3D"" Virus-free. www.avast.com

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 1:47 PM Stev= en Trovato via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
I realize that this is not what thi= s exchange is really about, but it
got me wondering about rabies in bears.=C2=A0 Apparently it is possible, but very rare.=C2=A0 According to humanesociety.org:=C2=A0 People have = little
to fear in terms of catching diseases or parasites from bears. As
warm-blooded animals, bears can get rabies, but it is very rare.
There are no known cases of a person catching rabies from a bear.

-Steve T.

At 03:14 PM 4/2/2020, Randall via Shop-talk wrote:

> > I am struggling to picture the situation where a "big enough=
> > to be dangerous" wild animal comes into a noisy shop by
> > choice.
>
>Ever hear of rabies ?=C2=A0 Just like people, wild animals aren't a= lways
>rational.
>
>-- Randall
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>Shop-talk= @autox.team.net
>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>Suggested annual donation=C2=A0 $12.96
>Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive
>
>Unsubscribe/Manage:
>http://autox.team.net/mail= man/options/shop-talk/strovato@optonline.net


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

_______________________________________________

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Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

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_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/jhassall@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.t= eam.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jhassall@gmail.com



--
W4BEA

The democracy will= cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and g= ive to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson

I so= metimes feel bad for the smart people - being simple-minded and easily ente= rtained is totally the way to go! ;-)
J. Stoll

--00000000000017b14a05a2564131-- --===============8614471228034044550== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8614471228034044550==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 4 10:29:01 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3AF7A1A9A for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 10:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net (unknown [69.252.207.43]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA1B4A18A8 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 10:28:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.104]) by resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id KlLZj1gw9HlRVKlfFj5uQj; Sat, 04 Apr 2020 16:28:57 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1586017737; bh=2sLsxeTaPuzFeaqn2ZpIY4p3KGwgE5hsOTxmJhfDb1U=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=wmYfKbaJYjj89mW9ZCyLKatQZjFJURAwmJoNzE89qlJVbcCXnzkLSN3o5ut4dRwXP iNwHhn0Czp1QCd1w7IEaheKHI6Rxe9M3nQmOJcQWPz9O0wHGhEmVFIbqxOOzM7Z0nN 9OsPSaZEERUKRTFvtPv/60tTzdgOD0qoG/sNo9B2TQYa4MIvVwvppfo5+OJMGnyg5s hA9lMxDn0bAsbXoPUbJ67dkwOUm6lZDlbb4gAuV/AsrlwyFHbYDrFNdNDgkelGYsmn 2n9z/5P8ezITJWadh9KYAe25vlP9A0bjGAmlVysbD/O1LGu5gzZT7wHLlYWZ1gwUN+ GmOfPbhgsKnYA== Received: from [IPv6:2601:203:581:2df0:fc88:2402:4d9b:4ba6] ([IPv6:2601:203:581:2df0:fc88:2402:4d9b:4ba6]) by resomta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id KlfDj0x4QGi8AKlfEjIfFK; Sat, 04 Apr 2020 16:28:56 +0000 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <52.E5.07714.E70568E5@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2020 09:28:55 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: Bob Spidell via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1234450435083374520== boundary="------------181255E857DF97DA45AF91D8" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------181255E857DF97DA45AF91D8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You forgot to add: 'Asking for a friend.' On 4/2/2020 3:23 PM, J.C. Hassall via Shop-talk wrote: > Interesting statistics.  What are the death stats of being shot by > some woman's irate husband? > > > > jim > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 5:45 PM Miq Millman via Shop-talk > > That's probably because in order to catch rabies from a bear bite, > you 'd have to survive the bear attack.  Survival rate from a bear > attack seems to vary, but it's not very good.  Bear attacks are > pretty rare in and of themselves (chances are about 1 in 2ish > million), plus there have been less than half a dozen cases of > rabies in bears in the last 20 years. > > # OF DEATHS IN THE UNITED STATES PER YEAR > > Cause of death ………………… # dead > Cardiovascular disease …….. 856,030 > Transportation accidents ...…. 48,441 > COVID-19...................................4520*** > Drowning ……………………….. 3,582 > Hypothermia ………………..……699 > West Nile virus ……………..….. 119 > Hornet/bee/wasp stings …......... 48.5 > Snake bites ……………….….….. 5.2 > Bear attacks ………….............….. 2 > > > ***so far > > Eric, maybe just stop eating bacon in the shop, that will save you > from heart disease and keep the bears away. > > -- > __ > Tualatin, OR  Big Llama Productions > > --------------181255E857DF97DA45AF91D8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You forgot to add: 'Asking for a friend.'



On 4/2/2020 3:23 PM, J.C. Hassall via Shop-talk wrote:
Interesting statistics.  What are the death stats of being shot by some woman's irate husband?  

</humor attempt>

jim  

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 5:45 PM Miq Millman via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
That's probably because in order to catch rabies from a bear bite, you 'd have to survive the bear attack.  Survival rate from a bear attack seems to vary, but it's not very good.  Bear attacks are pretty rare in and of themselves (chances are about 1 in 2ish million), plus there have been less than half a dozen cases of rabies in bears in the last 20 years.  

# OF DEATHS IN THE UNITED STATES PER YEAR

Cause of death ………………… # dead
Cardiovascular disease …….. 856,030
Transportation accidents ...…. 48,441
COVID-19...................................4520***    
Drowning ……………………….. 3,582
Hypothermia ………………..……699
West Nile virus ……………..….. 119
Hornet/bee/wasp stings …......... 48.5
Snake bites ……………….….….. 5.2
Bear attacks ………….............….. 2


***so far

Eric, maybe just stop eating bacon in the shop, that will save you from heart disease and keep the bears away.

--
__
Miq Millman   miq@bigllama.com
Tualatin, OR  Big Llama Productions



--------------181255E857DF97DA45AF91D8-- --===============1234450435083374520== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1234450435083374520==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 4 19:59:28 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23E57A06E8 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 19:59:28 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from ms11p00im-qufo17282101.me.com (unknown [17.58.38.58]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3244EA1943 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2020 19:57:18 -0600 (MDT) s=1a1hai; t=1586051837; bh=gAMOEnbXyeR+X4GBAWbeFVc+8H55fNoEW+lbNJBTgKw=; h=Content-Type:From:Date:Subject:Message-Id:To; b=FU0SxOmEvfm9Is1/g4cRNok6W/0CJz0UHgh3c1xa3kFVFyzmY08CVAiOOTfR3eM36 MFJMS7a1rfDDF9yooEvEtdCw+rSgs/Jpqe3lnPvNuBnJE2LdMVX++ZodmElNPCV+MY I5SqpQmsAqSPJOOQdyRgoVLm0DO/Qk1g6BeeLjC4e3ezAzQeZolQ5KZzxUv6s9mU0e PBSQaTDx/VR37UjFmoOXTrY8wAHZRvb7rSH3D7RGbZpWdw+dfmbEIDusiQFkv9fh39 V7yWgU//AuZjLvpbemu/L4n7DuQD7CpsFcnSgAwu5fSFI9ZqsOzbzfXUKqGEswvJD8 fwxF5/IFpwTsQ== Received: from [192.168.1.7] (cpe-68-203-90-56.tx.res.rr.com [68.203.90.56]) by ms11p00im-qufo17282101.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 629FE780168 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 01:57:17 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2020 20:57:15 -0500 To: Shop Talk definitions=2020-04-04_19:, , signatures=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=545 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-2004050018 Subject: [Shop-talk] Solar battery maintainer From: Robert Nogueirao via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net SeKAmXZlIGhhdmUgYW4gSXNldHRhIHdoaWNoIGlzIGtlcHQgaW4gaXRzIG93biBzbWFsbCBnYXJh Z2Ugc2VwYXJhdGUgZnJvbSBteSBzaG9wLiBUaGVyZSBpcyBubyBwb3dlciB0byB0aGUgc21hbGwg Z2FyYWdlIGJ1dCBJIG5lZWQgdG8gY29tZSB1cCB3aXRoIGEgd2F5IHRvIGtlZXAgdGhlIGJhdHRl cnkgb2YgdGhlIElzZXR0YSBjaGFyZ2VkLgogQW55IHJlY29tbWVuZGF0aW9ucyBvbiBhIHNvbGFy IGNhciBiYXR0ZXJ5IG1haW50YWluZXI/ICAgIEl0IHdpbGwgbmVlZCB0byBiZSB3ZWF0aGVyIHBy b29mIHNpbmNlIGl0IHdpbGwgYmUgbW91bnRlZCBvbiB0aGUgcm9vZiBvZiB0aGUgbGl0dGxlIGdh cmFnZS4KVGhhbmtzIGluIGFkdmFuY2UgZm9yIHJlY29tbWVuZGF0aW9ucyAKQm9iIApfX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwoKU2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94 LnRlYW0ubmV0CkRvbmF0ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9kb25hdGUuaHRtbApTdWdnZXN0 ZWQgYW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAkMTIuOTYKQXJjaGl2ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9w aXBlcm1haWwvc2hvcC10YWxrIGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9hcmNoaXZlCgpVbnN1YnNj cmliZS9NYW5hZ2U6IGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9tYWlsbWFuL29wdGlvbnMvc2hvcC10 YWxrL21oYXJjQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Cgo= From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 5 15:10:18 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 898EBA1DC8 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 15:10:18 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-po-11v.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.114.154.170]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9FDCA1B43 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 15:10:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.225]) by resqmta-po-11v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id LCTCjhpN4RtyELCWxjb1Xk; Sun, 05 Apr 2020 21:10:11 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1586121011; bh=XjTGJyhsiYV91kBpPDvZDsWSKzm3u0QyXizOYxtk/MA=; h=Received:Received:MIME-Version:To:From:Subject:Date:Content-Type; b=xeqVm8VybiMcr5gi8rEAWDXyw7GjSVKT+JEX7vV1CmJsuGYT6KCrBQE5C89cXC48+ TI2oKcJywxOXuI3GH5orQUCXwTuf1ePeg8f1STY1+IvtIH88ab6R/WcyFuFdA4cFko jL3tzKdPNc2hAlCopToFgVCDFvE2xQHIgjxzBe5T/4FXKUibPTcEvzp5/CaATySG6H 0RUpbWewhfVtdAA3Ht1w1t/IHsBCFLwxlLj4t9BAr2YnGwWDl4i5Cc9maxWpExOiqL dctRRrtLNsEEaiTH1VmEiLqfaNbxCd1p31Uh1c5Dn9jFB0EU8g5w2jhp8T3HPv5hXR g+EQNpoSQ8W3g== Received: from [IPv6:2601:600:4300:8140:bc42:c2ec:276c:15ba] ([IPv6:2601:600:4300:8140:bc42:c2ec:276c:15ba]) by resomta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id LCWvjokgVkTuWLCWwjLpao; Sun, 05 Apr 2020 21:10:10 +0000 To: "shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net" Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 14:10:10 -0700 Importance: normal References: <52.E5.07714.E70568E5@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: Bob Kegel via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============4246090957017205983== boundary="_F68F5DDF-616F-405A-9C97-B79CC440BB16_" --_F68F5DDF-616F-405A-9C97-B79CC440BB16_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Buy a goat.=20 Tether it outside the shop where it can keep the weeds down. Any carnivore= s wandering by will find it more attractive than you and your shop.=20 Bob K --_F68F5DDF-616F-405A-9C97-B79CC440BB16_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Buy a goat.

 

Tether it outside th= e shop =C2=A0where it can keep the weeds down. Any carnivores wandering by = will find it more attractive than you and your shop.

 

Bob K

 

 =

= --_F68F5DDF-616F-405A-9C97-B79CC440BB16_-- --===============4246090957017205983== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============4246090957017205983==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 5 16:42:38 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1287CA0EDD for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 16:42:38 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from camel.birch.relay.mailchannels.net (unknown [23.83.209.29]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4860A08F9 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 16:42:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3EAF5409E5 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 22:42:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a96.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-23-11.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.23.11]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id ACE10540939 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 22:42:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a96.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.6); Sun, 05 Apr 2020 22:42:29 +0000 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a96.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a96.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7605680D0C for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 15:42:29 -0700 (PDT) :to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=milleredp.com; bh=DWY E4BHDako5r9vQye5JTFD30wY=; b=GhitbpUcLg6/7sMfZ0gS7cOD0F6TVdhWSD+ ga9yAZtlMzQNYNRDR29iLUhqPdXmHgkUxCetpAOtxrz7PvKXOrVTWWLMDZ9RDhqY K2Q0G1XtxClHtlrIZKgvaeBhHZz66ti2v1m/0undE4MKd8Wpsrn+bYR1oOSnWoYO gFYqQpHs= Received: from [10.1.2.175] (c-67-161-16-174.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.161.16.174]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jem@milleredp.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a96.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2CD8480D0B for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 15:42:28 -0700 (PDT) To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <52.E5.07714.E70568E5@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <20200405211033.EE889A1DB8@autox.team.net> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 15:42:30 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: John Miller via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net PiBUZXRoZXIgaXQgb3V0c2lkZSB0aGUgc2hvcCDCoHdoZXJlIGl0IGNhbiBrZWVwIHRoZSB3ZWVk cyBkb3duLiBBbnkgCj4gY2Fybml2b3JlcyB3YW5kZXJpbmcgYnkgd2lsbCBmaW5kIGl0IG1vcmUg YXR0cmFjdGl2ZSB0aGFuIHlvdSBhbmQgeW91ciAKPiBzaG9wLgoKRWZmZWN0aXZlLCBidXQgY3J1 ZWwuCgpKb2huLgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f XwoKU2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0CkRvbmF0ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9k b25hdGUuaHRtbApTdWdnZXN0ZWQgYW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAkMTIuOTYKQXJjaGl2ZTogaHR0 cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9waXBlcm1haWwvc2hvcC10YWxrIGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5l dC9hcmNoaXZlCgpVbnN1YnNjcmliZS9NYW5hZ2U6IGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9tYWls bWFuL29wdGlvbnMvc2hvcC10YWxrL21oYXJjQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Cgo= From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 5 21:22:49 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 998DCA11B4 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 21:22:49 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from bradakis.com (unknown [50.198.190.18]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D6E7A0179 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 21:19:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bradakis.com (bradakis.com [50.198.190.18]) by bradakis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F359A1C0189 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 21:19:26 -0600 (MDT) To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <52.E5.07714.E70568E5@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> <20200405211015.8FD26A1CFB@autox.team.net> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 21:19:26 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Maybe the weirest shop related question asked here. From: Mark J Bradakis via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net T24gNC81LzIwIDM6MTAgUE0sIEJvYiBLZWdlbCB2aWEgU2hvcC10YWxrIHdyb3RlOgo+Cj4gQnV5 IGEgZ29hdC4KPgo+IFRldGhlciBpdCBvdXRzaWRlIHRoZSBzaG9wIMKgd2hlcmUgaXQgY2FuIGtl ZXAgdGhlIHdlZWRzIGRvd24uIEFueSAKPiBjYXJuaXZvcmVzIHdhbmRlcmluZyBieSB3aWxsIGZp bmQgaXQgbW9yZSBhdHRyYWN0aXZlIHRoYW4geW91IGFuZCB5b3VyIAo+IHNob3AuCj4KCkp1cmFz c2ljIFBhcmsKCm1qYi4KCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fXwoKU2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0CkRvbmF0ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFt Lm5ldC9kb25hdGUuaHRtbApTdWdnZXN0ZWQgYW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAkMTIuOTYKQXJjaGl2 ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9waXBlcm1haWwvc2hvcC10YWxrIGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50 ZWFtLm5ldC9hcmNoaXZlCgpVbnN1YnNjcmliZS9NYW5hZ2U6IGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5l dC9tYWlsbWFuL29wdGlvbnMvc2hvcC10YWxrL21oYXJjQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Cgo= From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 5 21:57:45 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BCA9A11C0 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 21:57:45 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-po-06v.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.114.154.165]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FC0EA1184 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 21:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-po-18v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.242]) by resqmta-po-06v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id LIdFjdgOl9uIxLIrhjIBS6; Mon, 06 Apr 2020 03:56:01 +0000 d=comcastmailservice.net; s=20180828_2048; t=1586145361; bh=hQjhW8uRza+Xl+uGpzkrHo0urYsnDbwSfRbOfBLCkWs=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:Reply-To:From:Message-ID:Date: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=iOwACT3xzYZnklw+k8bF+PVlg43jqeHqNVHV61gydosjN/AQ9dRS5xnV/3lwk3hPA 3lyamQK0c3kMCfSXB+QnVdNhyuqq/6UM8E6uVVtuEi0XvxVyN4TruH7J5M2myoE1I3 U0v0trMy64yhntDQyk2PlCaDblIzYPuezNGyniGXcsQ8GNW1s3xh5jY54UF6h+45iy qx80s0ZaTKZssyRbNgaHqoturwn/2OWKn+KPqklshvZcg07PTO47AeYFehiF/K5DSF 0u6x4WYIbrFQ9G0MsZW7uCVShuuDtIR8TRyN07uOlFM7WSrqTkVsnwU/EqVIe4HQ3s oyKhj9oZy1GHQ== Received: from [IPv6:2601:645:502:a1d0:5c43:6470:b780:7ee1] ([IPv6:2601:645:502:a1d0:5c43:6470:b780:7ee1]) by resomta-po-18v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id LIrgj0Lx3B8LeLIrhjR5MT; Mon, 06 Apr 2020 03:56:01 +0000 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 20:56:02 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] solar battery maintainer From: Mark Miller via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net First off, let me say how jealous I am. I looked at getting one (actually a pair) of those years ago, didn't, and have regretted it. There are solar battery maintainers out there, like: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B082X5M3BB/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_fCQIEb832F8K1. But also consider: if this isn't driven often (just a guess, correct me if this is your commute car) it may be easier to just take the battery out and keep it in the main shop near a source of power. <<>> Regards, Mark Miller 707-490-5834 markmiller@threeboysfarm.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 5 22:58:24 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88049A116D for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 22:58:24 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ot1-f49.google.com (unknown [209.85.210.49]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E67F7A1174 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 22:53:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-ot1-f49.google.com with SMTP id r19so14004366otn.7 for ; Sun, 05 Apr 2020 21:53:24 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=btBlsawcjkxzLsU9Xd8vQuYcZvTIE2RF/EUC58RUBt8=; b=mZhf2voAAVLfgmxEa88nqfUNKoS0DJzoW+4R6T+Zoqz6QEFJ8c2qIG6nkYDPpTgb7X 9ykzJMqAx0Yvm0pYq+kr/tBpmV9uZU8cHTCk8q6Xiu6AeC4WezK5NYSc5dWmTpUpqU2X 4Ec+4bBVvz/tlOFEFadyNwiUqjwKYnxAigkIig8NR5YiG2Xo3ZIFMB3jce6P8UxJ4rLv cdkHpw6PuhXT6BEfaAyb+Pj8eIlRSq2k1ONCr+Eqx6UPZnBlhm7bFcg3iTgYTHvjaSdE 46I7qHiF4uTV3diVYXphjPr0uEUVUvaLNBqeljkFKpUkIB1uOnDcmTAnooJhF0DBzM5D YyGg== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=btBlsawcjkxzLsU9Xd8vQuYcZvTIE2RF/EUC58RUBt8=; b=gYKIukaz+eboXWKQlzCnMv9yY8CiW2s6kLpXM14Vc+rjewOg8KhN/5VXbOraFfftUx FqX/7aBbH9LEAivekaarBeE71TnkWlL+n9C5lXGiPZcbwvkkPDZDsnaSaZnRlTim8ZUT MrzLDlNLCJAVh5DWuT0F/3q56KbAymENNiGJiUACiqdvcrmVD04C4pNf3IUjSbjr1cTs moqHzKtL8m7htavtvweYdvDmdoQlJhOegVtmPb+uooaTR2Rj7jyczEChJeUS3zUiJP8e krcTt6UXkWMMR/i6W7ryYn+bnKHpCeyHPxgGyqWLJ/v2WQjj1N/59GWUxUgj/Qzuqzsv wc0Q== isR2VSJ8qVczYKjYU1I90NqF1hEguL3UtXn2PON0tA== Sun, 05 Apr 2020 21:53:23 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2020 23:53:12 -0500 To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] solar battery maintainer From: Scott Hall via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3113646444118797306== --00000000000005676d05a2980c80 I second removing the battery and charging it on a good charger in the shop. I have two solar panel battery chargers like you're describing. They're designed to either sit on the dashboard and plug into the cigarette lighter or on top of the car and wire directly to the battery. Perhaps they have bought me a few extra days from time to time, but each of them has repeatedly left me with flat batteries. They will not keep a battery charged over a season, or even a particularly long stint in the driveway or at an airport. Scott On Sun, Apr 5, 2020, 10:57 PM Mark Miller via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > First off, let me say how jealous I am. I looked at getting one (actually > a pair) of those years ago, didn't, and have regretted it. > There are solar battery maintainers out there, like: > https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B082X5M3BB/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_fCQIEb832F8K1 > . > But also consider: if this isn't driven often (just a guess, correct me if > this is your commute car) it may be easier to just take the battery out and > keep it in the main shop near a source of power. > > << my shop. There is no power to the small garage but I need to come up with a > way to keep the battery of the Isetta charged. > Any recommendations on a solar car battery maintainer? It will need > to be weather proof since it will be mounted on the roof of the little > garage. > Thanks in advance for recommendations > Bob >>> > > Regards, > > Mark Miller 707-490-5834 > markmiller@threeboysfarm.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/scott.hall.personal@gmail.com > > --00000000000005676d05a2980c80 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I second removing the battery and charging it on a good c= harger in the shop.

I have two= solar panel battery chargers like you're describing. They're desig= ned to either sit on the dashboard and plug into the cigarette lighter or o= n top of the car and wire directly to the battery.
<= br>
Perhaps they have bought me a few extra days fro= m time to time, but each of them has repeatedly left me with flat batteries= . They will not keep a battery charged over a season, or even a particularl= y long stint in the driveway or at an airport.

<= /div>
Scott

On Sun, Apr 5, 2020, 10:57 PM Mark Miller= via Shop-talk <shop-talk@au= tox.team.net> wrote:
First o= ff, let me say how jealous I am.=C2=A0 I looked at getting one (actually a = pair) of those years ago, didn't, and have regretted it.
There are solar battery maintainers out there, like: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B082X5= M3BB/ref=3Dcm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_fCQIEb832F8K1.
But also consider: if this isn't driven often (just a guess, correct me= if this is your commute car) it may be easier to just take the battery out= and keep it in the main shop near a source of power.

<<<I've have an Isetta which is kept in its own small garage s= eparate from my shop. There is no power to the small garage but I need to c= ome up with a way to keep the battery of the Isetta charged.
=C2=A0 Any recommendations on a solar car battery maintainer?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = It will need to be weather proof since it will be mounted on the roof of th= e little garage.
Thanks in advance for recommendations
Bob >>>

Regards,

Mark Miller=C2=A0 =C2=A0707-490-5834
markmiller@threeboysfarm.com


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--00000000000005676d05a2980c80-- --===============3113646444118797306== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3113646444118797306==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Apr 5 23:27:00 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C85DDA11E9 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 23:27:00 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sonic301-33.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (unknown [66.163.184.202]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 516B8A11B6 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 23:26:56 -0600 (MDT) t=1586150816; bh=oltTljTVFbl7hspa4ScIWTXUlncdXbCJbtFKuLjDu7Q=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=sZ805/ejIubgTWx2lG19o0ClaAJh6OOOmBc3olSQcYyLnLel5KajCQbEPE37CG0PjV7HPSlfS7s1rCCWy8Wl7AdjnZiIfhMi8CZgklfRb3kbj2+A/LZZQj60lMk9B/sP465a4OHiCqea5Who/xOJnJFjgfKoBw2J7BBgzLYZu6L5IveWiZX8aiYrC+cwIMvOugSuj35vOzrzV6K0U6HdsPNZTXZ5bC0xfG7caMSElMCHNrCNc4kql8MDo66LXKPToq507oC7NDiTc2IijIV1bzwEdueGvOm7RICKpITAYKrMBe3SLTOc78jS04dvQTOls1yEhGBAwOFPOfBiBfafIg== 8GlUbfM_XQZtkIorsvBGa2fP7Nc5PzQBN2V4Oc75bRHsvHq.tKftiQqUB3bhFpy1SfCRWqF_i4zM pxebcVbSqv.b2Cj88.MjC9Bisw5klbRj8k4rVDd8XhPM4i3xYNcDmfmNuovpOxXE85IU3ddzeLkb edfBwuHWyzxD5IAe72LOveAfso.EZ7B4arxHP_FsaPlh3Px_Zl1DZGRHsH8KUnamdanHkByWDRQX jARlLsWz3rTcMJ6MiEzlC86Y3H1Bkrgdyq3U0QLeZ0xCRIDJ4aW0ctrCc5ZenGNMfo7oHEvW0Eiv cv8o9BEqLywqjoy4wWrUbnaA74pzUkvIqdmc9BsVm3EuovJUtosWyZcoO27ueBJrjIcrVzwcm..w 3GF2E2MR8KRpp9LdxTLOuLgcXs9Wc3WxM.4.y8Szz0C0wgLxPKtaabHvgby.1bujqHXHYKn9BGTd i6pPmxwHnvT_2Kmuf0anCUuPidlXYYrw7xhMPale62hEDCj24aQ7eF5Us07hWRHNqCLst8Vz2fNf v4435pObKkg_poWy_PxRYs7S9VTHdznXoUHXWx9lkU0O1HIRzrfDLC_C5X13PmBH1yyKpFnDUUPh aq0aUl.oggQxNhEcjlnXSAvbcvxK8uZjNRzEK85Bh6itrCAKQ.a1HuENpBbQ7GSO29NRC2hlz2fq pqb4vbMYh4YLkHYePjnusD6IWNl3ITD97w.ynPHLjESxZl5bBNBK6djmQAiHr4IQuu5sL.SDmn2A R20ouR1lpxcwy_L1DETxfnpVFLIjACW5sXeHiSrUJ9qUmMND0HUNLHwJH2V9.Bv5t6AQfsn9pMRW QnyfLWnsdZJA7vxKVM8lZUmN4rcTanGlK2BJlwku6.YGgNcDiwbHQvemAvfiosdChuv6jmmOCvAf buIO68IXeGCUh5gpUKUKBRvL4Jfr2Neid097Vnivdwag3lLztPTqawHTOb5BAenhjDUr1EtPh9bK xJdFoDHlTFzHqmjh1amknDIQ7DDQHx9e_2a39a1BLXgD0tFdYGDJgu4zgH6DWq1N2bKgol7pmtHT 63qEFYqr_JpXE94WJcZEkSKerJIrakpxhCC8xLc06R.WJc4yxgD8O7PjADYgbrYTNAHc2yP.W5HF MOU36eOVkJPPEmYiMifMZLq5NlizWfr1PWxObfBeOB659Mjhg6vA7oN0EutTa2C03L7lRV75BF0j XkP6Z9ZW1DPIvqR.Ofc4KBnDZgC2EsBWMPwq6LNvk.jcnIYp5Io.IzKnSw6d94YbMyWXqPlg5A_8 ifMGGBR4voIFsx_Vo7dT2QkcizErGsIybHFUOCM.zKgiYifgH0Jrb3MoXjRpDfKS0fsgZvUNwF8A Eyr9HaFj2OAHqo3DXU8dVKA7REspDaNS3.tW4 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic301.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 05:26:56 +0000 Received: by smtp404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 4d8ff5acc9c173174254d2c696d8e498; Mon, 06 Apr 2020 05:26:50 +0000 (UTC) To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2020 22:26:49 -0700 References: User-Agent: ForteAgent/7.20.32.1218 (Java/11.0.6) Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] solar battery maintainer From: rwil--- via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mark's example would probably do you fine. There are some surprises and exceptions that are worth considering. 5 watts would keep a battery fully charged in most climates unless the Isetta has some electrical load drawing down the battery. If so and if you can't find the source you can always disconnect the battery until you want to drive the car. a 5 watt panel, even if it is unregulated, probably won't mess up your battery. All that is needed is a diode to keep the panel from discharging the battery when it's dark. 5 watts would take forever to recharge a severely discharged battery. A good setting for the panel is the degrees above horizontal that matches your latitude (32 or 33 degrees here in S. California). 30 watts could overcharge if the protective circuits don't work. Most 12 volt PV panels actually deliver their full power at something like 13 volts. If the battery allows it, the voltage will rise higher and the PV panel's output will drop. This is OK unless and until the voltage gets to a level that is unhealthy for the battery, maybe 16 volts for most lead acid batteries. Really good regulators can cope with all of that but they tend to be expensive. A check of purchasers' ratings can sometimes give you an idea if a particular panel tends to overcharge unless it is disconnected at the right time. If you took the battery into the garage you could use a battery maintainer that would not only keep the battery charged but do some neat stuff to keep the battery from sulphating or otherwise wearing out too fast. I don't know of a PV panel that will do all of that. -Roland On Sun, 5 Apr 2020 20:56:02 -0700, Mark wrote: >First off, let me say how jealous I am. I looked at getting one (actually a pair) of those years ago, didn't, and have regretted it. >There are solar battery maintainers out there, like: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B082X5M3BB/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_fCQIEb832F8K1. >But also consider: if this isn't driven often (just a guess, correct me if this is your commute car) it may be easier to just take the battery out and keep it in the main shop near a source of power. > ><< Any recommendations on a solar car battery maintainer? It will need to be weather proof since it will be mounted on the roof of the little garage. >Thanks in advance for recommendations >Bob >>> > >Regards, > >Mark Miller 707-490-5834 >markmiller@threeboysfarm.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 6 01:08:58 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50591A123E for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 01:08:58 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from p-impout001.msg.pkvw.co.charter.net (unknown [47.43.26.140]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0403A112B for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 01:07:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from RYPC ([172.248.153.253]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id LLrDjdQztUue7LLrDjvad9; Mon, 06 Apr 2020 07:07:43 +0000 a=qZdJX8rkFm4y5TzLCyaqOg==:117 a=qZdJX8rkFm4y5TzLCyaqOg==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=kj0SDmQ4dHRHKVqktmMA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 Cc: "'Shop-talk'" References: Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2020 00:00:32 -0700 Thread-Index: AdYL0AR20OcDG7XKS92BtWYcNPRiOwADt0Rg a79KzVmidVJv/yHiRvmSjQrtom9jJFGENGKfxkW3onLwLWqxyxhyAo/Q Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] solar battery maintainer From: Randall via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net A 5 watt panel should have no trouble keeping a normal car battery up as long as it gets full sun at least a few days per week. If not, I suspect you've got either a leak, or a vampire load. Lots of stereos, alarms and even the computers on some modern cars draw a little bit of power all the time. Clocks are another suspect. Leaks can be pretty subtle, too. Toughest one I've hunted down was a relay that had a tiny bit of salt spray on the phenolic plate that carried the terminals. Evening dew would sometimes get the salt damp enough to conduct and turn the relay on. Found that one just by dumb luck, happened to walk by the car one night and saw the indicator light on the dash. Also had trouble with an old motorhome; turned out to be mud that had gotten thrown up onto the solenoid that charged the camping batteries. -- Randall 56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver 71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild 71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild > Perhaps they have bought me a few extra days from time to > time, but each of them has repeatedly left me with flat > batteries. They will not keep a battery charged over a > season, or even a particularly long stint in the driveway or > at an airport. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 6 12:23:30 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEF74A1339 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 12:23:30 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from relay12.mail.gandi.net (unknown [217.70.178.232]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4301A10A3 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 12:23:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.135] (c-73-253-103-15.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [73.253.103.15]) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by relay12.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3CCF0200002 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 18:23:20 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2020 14:23:18 -0400 To: Shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Decking material? From: Jim Franklin via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I'm looking to expand/replace the 8 x 14 deck I have now into a 16x24. It's 5/4 PT wood. What else do people like? This is a medium-budget project i.e. I want something better than 1980s era PT pine or sagging plastic lumber but Ipe and the like are probably out of range. I put a Trex railing in my house and I liked the quality but 20 years ago Trex would burn your feet off and sagged. What's available today that has a good quality per dollar ratio? thanks, jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 6 13:33:28 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4229BA1396 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 13:33:28 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-07v.sys.comcast.net (unknown [69.252.207.39]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1515A0EB4 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 13:30:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-20v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.116]) by resqmta-ch2-07v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id LX0Tjqgh8D4wELXSGjpxqR; Mon, 06 Apr 2020 19:30:44 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1586201444; bh=xVJ+AgwxktkLOPKW7poAcpZ/gVBe2ZcqRk1I5ADvC9w=; h=Received:Received:From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date: Message-Id; b=mdQrUuhpzuxh0U34qlPNt+jhu/AqJdRq3bH+OpfrsYMdbF5GKft7BGvlliiAIJnoI Eut8XHF/sHQGwEbCvJ49RVCTN7TMAa8fvq2zYtwLx5i39JNj9vLgWRHC90N94kUBjp 40PDU3vAZO25i/VNUneDf0G8Nijh+bT+gDZvu53OZJRUOynQzgudJkgZWP6wPw/YOS GUbWab9sTMvr9djJ/Y6D1dk4GC2YOg/BxoaKrrLrzqUi8jJge/h4cFsUez3lvaBpIM uXw1M7fvh8CIzu8NZKHX+YH/QyYGDvIG3xjZawkycnkqcWC49qxNQSsaS5AauF1hr7 lfg0o8x1o6bGw== Received: from [192.168.1.11] ([73.17.214.72]) by resomta-ch2-20v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id LXSBjvM4kTUlPLXSCjzAlL; Mon, 06 Apr 2020 19:30:44 +0000 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2020 15:30:39 -0400 Cc: Shop-talk References: <09706892-7267-4FB4-A934-32A2FF4E6124@groupwbench.org> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Decking material? From: Rochlin Robert via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net SGkgSmltLApJ4oCZbSBhbHNvIHRyeWluZyB0byBkZWNpZGUgb24gYSByZS1kZWNraW5nIG1hdGVy aWFsLiBDb25zdW1lciBSZXBvcnRzIGlzIGluIHRoZSBwcm9jZXNzIG9mIGV2YWx1YXRpbmcgZGVj a2luZyBtYXRlcmlhbCwgYnV0IHNpbmNlIHRoZSB0ZXN0cyBhcmUgb3ZlciBhIGxvbmcgc3BhbiBv ZiB0aW1lIHRoZXkgaGF2ZSBsaW1pdGVkIGRhdGEuICBJ4oCZbSBhbHNvIGNvbmNlcm5lZCBhYm91 dCB0aGUgcG90ZW50aWFsIHRlbXBlcmF0dXJlIG9mIHRoZSBkZWNraW5nIG1hdGVyaWFsIGFzIEkg aGF2ZSBhIGRvZy4uICBDb25zdW1lciBSZXBvcnRzIGp1ZGdlZCB0aGUgQXphayBkZWNraW5nIGFz IGNvb2xlciwgcmVsYXRpdmVseSBzcGVha2luZywgdGhhbiB0aGUgb3RoZXIgZGVja2luZyB0aGV5 IGhhdmUgYmVlbiB0ZXN0aW5nLiAgTW9zdCBkZWNraW5nICBjb21wYW5pZXMgIHdpbGwgdGVsbCB5 b3UgdGhhdCB0aGVpciBsaWdodGVyIHdvb2QgY29sb3JzIGFyZSBjb29sZXIgdGhhbiBkYXJrZXIg d29vZCBjb2xvcnMuCglJ4oCZZCBhbHNvIGJlIGludGVyZXN0ZWQgaW4gdGhlIGV4cGVyaWVuY2Ug b2Ygb3RoZXJzLgoJQmVzdCwKCUJvYgoKPiBPbiBBcHIgNiwgMjAyMCwgYXQgMjoyMyBQTSwgSmlt IEZyYW5rbGluIHZpYSBTaG9wLXRhbGsgPHNob3AtdGFsa0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldD4gd3JvdGU6 Cj4gCj4gSSdtIGxvb2tpbmcgdG8gZXhwYW5kL3JlcGxhY2UgdGhlIDggeCAxNCBkZWNrIEkgaGF2 ZSBub3cgaW50byBhIDE2eDI0LiBJdCdzIDUvNCBQVCB3b29kLiBXaGF0IGVsc2UgZG8gcGVvcGxl IGxpa2U/IFRoaXMgaXMgYSBtZWRpdW0tYnVkZ2V0IHByb2plY3QgaS5lLiBJIHdhbnQgc29tZXRo aW5nIGJldHRlciB0aGFuIDE5ODBzIGVyYSBQVCBwaW5lIG9yIHNhZ2dpbmcgcGxhc3RpYyBsdW1i ZXIgYnV0IElwZSBhbmQgdGhlIGxpa2UgYXJlIHByb2JhYmx5IG91dCBvZiByYW5nZS4gSSBwdXQg YSBUcmV4IHJhaWxpbmcgaW4gbXkgaG91c2UgYW5kIEkgbGlrZWQgdGhlIHF1YWxpdHkgYnV0IDIw IHllYXJzIGFnbyBUcmV4IHdvdWxkIGJ1cm4geW91ciBmZWV0IG9mZiBhbmQgc2FnZ2VkLiAKPiAK PiBXaGF0J3MgYXZhaWxhYmxlIHRvZGF5IHRoYXQgaGFzIGEgZ29vZCBxdWFsaXR5IHBlciBkb2xs YXIgcmF0aW8/Cj4gCj4gdGhhbmtzLAo+IGppbQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCj4gCj4gU2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Cj4gRG9u YXRlOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnRlYW0ubmV0L2RvbmF0ZS5odG1sCj4gU3VnZ2VzdGVkIGFubnVhbCBk b25hdGlvbiAgJDEyLjk2Cj4gQXJjaGl2ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9waXBlcm1haWwv c2hvcC10YWxrIGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9hcmNoaXZlCj4gCj4gVW5zdWJzY3JpYmUv TWFuYWdlOiBodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvbWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL3Nob3AtdGFsay9y cm9jaGxpbkBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldAo+IAoKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX18KClNob3AtdGFsa0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldApEb25hdGU6IGh0dHA6Ly93 d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvZG9uYXRlLmh0bWwKU3VnZ2VzdGVkIGFubnVhbCBkb25hdGlvbiAgJDEyLjk2 CkFyY2hpdmU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvcGlwZXJtYWlsL3Nob3AtdGFsayBodHRwOi8v YXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvYXJjaGl2ZQoKVW5zdWJzY3JpYmUvTWFuYWdlOiBodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gu dGVhbS5uZXQvbWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL3Nob3AtdGFsay9taGFyY0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldAoK From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 6 13:34:49 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1561A1339 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 13:34:49 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from ms11p00im-hyfv17291101.me.com (unknown [17.58.38.40]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E27C5A0EEC for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 13:34:46 -0600 (MDT) s=1a1hai; t=1586201678; bh=BFFeiH1Ib0qW/GHPetwEcTP2hdZpI4eYhpQemCVfH6M=; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=IWITZWRTB8RZwi9E5Rkotk41QcLaoVLr41xSZlVUF5ljOA10r7zjtCUpKnC4IN+Io 4e2mxU5GtOfTkKj3ZZde4zG/WS+tNZTPrSrInR/gpL1WwYSmgBM97X3PrXlmTuliJA PUrc0tITyT181vBdGzsCU0WhAr6LHYFacAXnWqld/WriG9OHmcGnMxA/Vrtj1kM0Vp 3I0CXcmoyEojqcjHqc6101S0AI7UlVbiQk2n3b+I80dqShEie6cjAg1l/gNn1atoaB y+ecdnfpx8Zt0nZ8ZQo8hVtw1fNKQYNAwJkj/xUNvgWw68o1HT946FWKjf92/ZbZ4Y dk6bk9nupmiDA== Received: from [192.168.88.55] (unknown [199.38.189.253]) by ms11p00im-hyfv17291101.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 71A656C04BD; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 19:34:38 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2020 14:34:36 -0500 References: <09706892-7267-4FB4-A934-32A2FF4E6124@groupwbench.org> To: Jim Franklin definitions=2020-04-06_10:, , signatures=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-2004060153 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Decking material? From: Pat Horne via Shop-talk Cc: Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net SSBkaWQgYSBkZWNrIGFib3V0IDE1IHllYXJzIGFnbyB3aXRoIE1hc3NhcmFuZHViYS4gSXTigJlz IGNsb3NlIHRvIHRoZSBJcGUgcmFuZ2UgYnV0IGl0IGhlbGQgdXAgZ3JlYXQuIEnigJltIGdldHRp bmcgcmVhZHkgdG8gYWRkIGFub3RoZXIgMTB4MjAgJiB3aWxsIHVzZSB0aGUgc2FtZS4gCgpJ4oCZ dmUgYWxzbyB1c2VkIGEgcGxhc3RpYyBjb21wb3VuZCBkZWNraW5nIChDaG9pY2VkZWNrKSB0aGF0 IHdvcmtzIHdlbGwgYnV0IGl0IHdpbGwgYmUgaG90IGlmIG5vdCB1bmRlciBjb3ZlciAmIG5lZWRz IGV4dHJhIHN1cHBvcnQuIAoKUGVhY2UsClBhdAoKUGF0IEhvcm5lIApXZSBzdXBwb3J0IEhhYml0 YXQgZm9yIEh1bWFuaXR5CgoKPiBPbiBBcHIgNiwgMjAyMCwgYXQgMToyMyBQTSwgSmltIEZyYW5r bGluIHZpYSBTaG9wLXRhbGsgPHNob3AtdGFsa0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldD4gd3JvdGU6Cj4gCgrv u79JJ20gbG9va2luZyB0byBleHBhbmQvcmVwbGFjZSB0aGUgOCB4IDE0IGRlY2sgSSBoYXZlIG5v dyBpbnRvIGEgMTZ4MjQuIEl0J3MgNS80IFBUIHdvb2QuIFdoYXQgZWxzZSBkbyBwZW9wbGUgbGlr ZT8gVGhpcyBpcyBhIG1lZGl1bS1idWRnZXQgcHJvamVjdCBpLmUuIEkgd2FudCBzb21ldGhpbmcg YmV0dGVyIHRoYW4gMTk4MHMgZXJhIFBUIHBpbmUgb3Igc2FnZ2luZyBwbGFzdGljIGx1bWJlciBi dXQgSXBlIGFuZCB0aGUgbGlrZSBhcmUgcHJvYmFibHkgb3V0IG9mIHJhbmdlLiBJIHB1dCBhIFRy ZXggcmFpbGluZyBpbiBteSBob3VzZSBhbmQgSSBsaWtlZCB0aGUgcXVhbGl0eSBidXQgMjAgeWVh cnMgYWdvIFRyZXggd291bGQgYnVybiB5b3VyIGZlZXQgb2ZmIGFuZCBzYWdnZWQuIAoKV2hhdCdz IGF2YWlsYWJsZSB0b2RheSB0aGF0IGhhcyBhIGdvb2QgcXVhbGl0eSBwZXIgZG9sbGFyIHJhdGlv PwoKdGhhbmtzLApqaW0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX18KClNob3AtdGFsa0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldApEb25hdGU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5u ZXQvZG9uYXRlLmh0bWwKU3VnZ2VzdGVkIGFubnVhbCBkb25hdGlvbiAgJDEyLjk2CkFyY2hpdmU6 IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvcGlwZXJtYWlsL3Nob3AtdGFsayBodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gudGVh bS5uZXQvYXJjaGl2ZQoKVW5zdWJzY3JpYmUvTWFuYWdlOiBodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQv bWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL3Nob3AtdGFsay9wYXRpbnRleGFzQGljbG91ZC5jb20KCl9fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCgpTaG9wLXRhbGtAYXV0b3gu dGVhbS5uZXQKRG9uYXRlOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnRlYW0ubmV0L2RvbmF0ZS5odG1sClN1Z2dlc3Rl ZCBhbm51YWwgZG9uYXRpb24gICQxMi45NgpBcmNoaXZlOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnRlYW0ubmV0L3Bp cGVybWFpbC9zaG9wLXRhbGsgaHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0L2FyY2hpdmUKClVuc3Vic2Ny aWJlL01hbmFnZTogaHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0L21haWxtYW4vb3B0aW9ucy9zaG9wLXRh bGsvbWhhcmNAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQKCg== From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 6 13:37:51 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BF0EA141C for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 13:37:51 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from ms11p00im-qufo17281701.me.com (unknown [17.58.38.54]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20185A13E1 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 13:37:48 -0600 (MDT) s=1a1hai; t=1586201865; bh=uGD6Dj9kmmk4v2DD4l8qD3kxuh8fLdwaws8rYLYg1KY=; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=z7KCUU0HUwe/RPBwLyQNMeyw5sFcKTPMiiKSbuaCrcnFpwWa2ozqVzjeUJvqOytRz v0mN1V1d7VpMhJJWSM/ZhjjsVQ+E9GW5iQcrrw+sgryx7dyfPV9A+FjUtE6aD5OJgp Xft3/A0BB3txWk2ANcIgkWNPWheE3ETmajzDlHG3Q9/17ZYWPuD1IkovX2Sf7qAd9Z gvCsl+192CEZGj+8vsAaDepn4p8VH6CrrqOFBLbM6/6HHCVOXwvA4HlGDIGxm7r0um cixVaAAAZ/EpCI8RhD73/Dg8UPIL8AKJsczYhqJNtS/PHPA5WcE3IwRUFm6qN+GCK/ nBLIdtVons42g== Received: from [192.168.1.7] (cpe-68-203-90-56.tx.res.rr.com [68.203.90.56]) by ms11p00im-qufo17281701.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6C997BC02DD; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 19:37:45 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2020 14:37:44 -0500 References: <2ldl8f18dt339ap9spsb688pugc9egmlu2@4ax.com> To: rwil@sbcglobal.net definitions=2020-04-06_10:, , signatures=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=829 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-2004060153 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] solar battery maintainer From: Robert Nogueirao via Shop-talk Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net VGhhbmtzIGd1eXMsIGZvciB0aGUgZ29vZCBhZHZpc2UgYW5kIGluc2lnaHQuICBSZW1vdmluZyB0 aGUgYmF0dGVyeSBpcyBvdXQgYXMgaXQgaXMgZmFjdG9yeSBtb3VudGVkIHVuZGVyIHRoZSBzZWF0 LCB3aGljaCByZXF1aXJlcyByZW1vdmluZyB0aGUgc2VhdCB0byBhY2Nlc3MsIGFuZCByZW1vdmlu ZyB0aGUgc2VhdCByZXF1aXJlcyByZW1vdmluZyB0aGUgdGhlIGludGVyaW9yIHBhbmVscyAoIHdo YXQgdGhhdCBhYm91dCBHZXJtYW4gZW5naW5lZXJpbmc/ICkuCk15IGJhc2ljIHByb2JsZW0gaXMg dGhlIHRoZSBiYXR0ZXJ5IGlzIGEgc21hbGwgTGF3biBtb3dlciBzaXplIGJhdHRlcnkgbmVlZGVk ICB0byBmaXQgaW4gdGhlIGhvbGUgZm9yIHRoZSBiYXR0ZXJ5LCB3aGlsZSB0aGUgc3RhcnRlciBp cyBhIER5bmFzdGFydCB3aGljaCBtZWFucyBubyBnZWFyIHJlZHVjdGlvbiBiZXR3ZWVuIHRoZSBz dGFydGVkIG1vdG9yIGFuZCBlbmdpbmUsIHNvIGl0IHRha2UgYSBiaWcgZHJhdyB0byBnZXQgaXQg dG8gdHVybiB0aGUgZW5naW5lLiBpZiB0aGUgYmF0dGVyeSBpcyBmdWxseSBjaGFyZ2VkIG5vIHBy b2JsZW0sIGJ1dCBpZiBpdCBpcyBkb3duIGp1c3QgYSBiaXQgeW91IGdldCBvbmUgc2hvdCBhdCBz dGFydGluZyB0aGVuIGp1c3Qgc29sZW5vaWQgY2xpY2tzLiAgVGhpcyBpcyBjb21wb3VuZGVkIGJ5 IHRoZSBmYWN0IHRoYXQgYWZ0ZXIgc3RhcnRpbmcgdGhlIHN0YXJ0ZXIgbW90b3Igc3dpdGNoIHRv IGJlaW5nIGEgZ2VuZXJhdG9yIGFsYXMgYSBwb29yIG9uZSBhdCBtYXliZSAxMCBhbXBzLiBTbyB0 aGUgc29sYXIgY2hhcmdlci1tYWludGFpbmVyIGxvb2tzIHRvIGJlICBteSBvbmx5IHByYWN0aWNh bCBvcHRpb24uCkFnYWluIHRoYXTigJlzIGZvciB0aGUgaW5zaWdodHMgYW5kIGFkdmlzZS4KQm9i ICAgKCBub3QgcXVpdGUgYXMgb2RkIGFzIGhpcyBjYXJzKQoKPiBPbiBBcHIgNiwgMjAyMCwgYXQg MTI6MjcgQU0sIHJ3aWwtLS0gdmlhIFNob3AtdGFsayA8c2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0 PiB3cm90ZToKPiAKPiBleHBlbnNpdmUuICAKPiAKPiBBIGNoZWNrIG9mIHB1cmNoYXNlcnMnIHJh dGluZ3MgY2FuIHNvbWV0aW1lcyBnaXZlIHlvdSBhbiBpZGVhIGlmIGEKPiBwYXJ0aWN1bGFyIHBh bmVsIHRlbmRzIHRvIG92ZXJjaGFyZ2UgdW5sZXNzIGl0IGlzIGRpc2Nvbm5lY3RlZCBhdCB0aGUK PiByaWdodCB0aW1lLgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fXwoKU2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0CkRvbmF0ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5l dC9kb25hdGUuaHRtbApTdWdnZXN0ZWQgYW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAkMTIuOTYKQXJjaGl2ZTog aHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9waXBlcm1haWwvc2hvcC10YWxrIGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFt Lm5ldC9hcmNoaXZlCgpVbnN1YnNjcmliZS9NYW5hZ2U6IGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9t YWlsbWFuL29wdGlvbnMvc2hvcC10YWxrL21oYXJjQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Cgo= From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 6 15:21:07 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DAAEA1101 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 15:21:07 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from smtp-out-1.talktalk.net (unknown [62.24.135.65]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1653A10CF for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 15:17:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.23] ([89.242.146.255]) by smtp.talktalk.net with SMTP id LZ7ojum7g1nW2LZ7ojzrJd; Mon, 06 Apr 2020 22:17:45 +0100 s=cmr1711; t=1586207865; bh=Oojq2rf5dFUmQgOyHRUHjc79DoyHtWfz1Q7SKovMaFQ=; h=Date:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:To:From; b=afb5XhsyEaZgp8lV2qqBbTQfwX0RW1N2MTbwUHB/SkuQH19RhPw39XTUpTHoNtvw0 5r/cqencVnG0KGOMUqByjIHrUNye6wxUXpJg2t32BzAFTOaed/uezI5NAA0gI2FlYp vZ/YteFqYMm9jz25h0H9fdPk9DWxKaV457/EL8KA= a=kwzdOlO7yPUboy7hovq1Bw==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=zOoktvdPAAAA:8 a=nN7BH9HXAAAA:8 a=jN4xmhCDag8a4ie0yLAA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=m3MdUl94G8cA:10 a=s7j0piTrT7HeEgd5:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=GGGinmgZRQXmVEG1E52S:22 Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2020 22:17:43 +0100 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android References: <2ldl8f18dt339ap9spsb688pugc9egmlu2@4ax.com> <89E595D8-8A5D-4F63-BAA4-BBF8CA81CB99@icloud.com> To: shop-talk@autox.team.net DODK8bGjBeuu5b0HC7B220MdIqnHD1+EmmrGNTjywrFS4DV5kJ9NMCzUzllRQ7F1iKVnBq+BnDBwIQ== Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] solar battery maintainer From: neiljsherry--- via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============1125984845670399823== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------AGQBJ62JFFQPPDZFWQAVTLCEA9HGK0 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Could you have an external battery for jump starting and use the quick conn= ector as used on race cars, suitably concealed? On 6 April 2020 20:37:44 BST, Robert Nogueirao via Shop-talk wrote: >Thanks guys, for the good advise and insight=2E Removing the battery is >out as it is factory mounted under the seat, which requires removing >the seat to access, and removing the seat requires removing the the >interior panels ( what that about German engineering? )=2E >My basic problem is the the battery is a small Lawn mower size battery >needed to fit in the hole for the battery, while the starter is a >Dynastart which means no gear reduction between the started motor and >engine, so it take a big draw to get it to turn the engine=2E if the >battery is fully charged no problem, but if it is down just a bit you >get one shot at starting then just solenoid clicks=2E This is compounded >by the fact that after starting the starter motor switch to being a >generator alas a poor one at maybe 10 amps=2E So the solar >charger-maintainer looks to be my only practical option=2E >Again that=E2=80=99s for the insights and advise=2E >Bob ( not quite as odd as his cars) > >> On Apr 6, 2020, at 12:27 AM, rwil--- via Shop-talk > wrote: >>=20 >> expensive=2E =20 >>=20 >> A check of purchasers' ratings can sometimes give you an idea if a >> particular panel tends to overcharge unless it is disconnected at the >> right time=2E >_______________________________________________ > >Shop-talk@autox=2Eteam=2Enet >Donate: http://www=2Eteam=2Enet/donate=2Ehtml >Suggested annual donation $12=2E96 >Archive: http://www=2Eteam=2Enet/pipermail/shop-talk >http://autox=2Eteam=2Enet/archive > >Unsubscribe/Manage: >http://autox=2Eteam=2Enet/mailman/options/shop-talk/neiljsherry@talktalk= =2Enet --=20 Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E ------AGQBJ62JFFQPPDZFWQAVTLCEA9HGK0 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Could you have an external battery for jump starti= ng and use the quick connector as used on race cars, suitably concealed?
On 6 April 2020 20:37:44 BST, Robert Noguei= rao via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox=2Eteam=2Enet> wrote:
Thanks guys, for the good advise and insight=2E  Rem=
oving the battery is out as it is factory mounted under the seat, which req=
uires removing the seat to access, and removing the seat requires removing =
the the interior panels ( what that about German engineering? )=2E
My ba=
sic problem is the the battery is a small Lawn mower size battery needed  t=
o fit in the hole for the battery, while the starter is a Dynastart which m=
eans no gear reduction between the started motor and engine, so it take a b=
ig draw to get it to turn the engine=2E if the battery is fully charged no =
problem, but if it is down just a bit you get one shot at starting then jus=
t solenoid clicks=2E  This is compounded by the fact that after starting th=
e starter motor switch to being a generator alas a poor one at maybe 10 amp=
s=2E So the solar charger-maintainer looks to be  my only practical option=
=2E
Again that=E2=80=99s for the insights and advise=2E
Bob   ( not q=
uite as odd as his cars)

On Apr 6, 2020, at 12:27 AM, rwil--- via Shop-talk <shop-talk@auto=
x=2Eteam=2Enet> wrote:

expensive=2E  

A check of purchaser=
s' ratings can sometimes give you an idea if a
particular panel tends to=
 overcharge unless it is disconnected at the
right time=2E
Shop-talk@autox=2Eteam=2Enet
Donate: http://www=2Eteam=2Enet/donate=2Ehtml
Suggeste=
d annual donation  $12=2E96
Archive: http://www=2Eteam=2Enet/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox=2Eteam=2Enet/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox=2Eteam=2Enet/mai=
lman/options/shop-talk/neiljsherry@talktalk=2Enet


--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail=2E Please e= xcuse my brevity=2E ------AGQBJ62JFFQPPDZFWQAVTLCEA9HGK0-- --===============1125984845670399823== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1125984845670399823==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 6 15:33:27 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AEBCA1116 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 15:33:27 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oi1-f180.google.com (unknown [209.85.167.180]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C85C9A0285 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 15:29:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-oi1-f180.google.com with SMTP id d3so14534933oic.1 for ; Mon, 06 Apr 2020 14:29:16 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=Rr9u/jBHRhdo0tr3X33liGeHsAdnDOWTBhPbC6+SS7U=; b=Yxwjx1FjtZTli/ZaX8QBiqO2kqvPrcDM4EVcxiPViMgYGsykIl3xAgCV6H9ak0wZ7E 60XiLQt6m95leIkEJi6XyOkwyNA4Padxls6T0Ql9eAirq4mO9YIJEf9yYKvd694JMXFa hzJoCkWLZ4Gkb+dHNddz9OB30e0aenyw0bou17UiWHY9Snyn8aFtqlAjr3wwUDlwuQUh y5Ddof4j2RypCgDR9nZTIGp0RI5U2Q4QKzvEqsCpsj4w4C/Z1ifhlVynV4Xpe6x6VcnC be93a+I1vryGoGcSVkPqc0Be8Wiq7i6eLV1CQxfykPhnbDDHhpIDIKw19EJ50myhuD5o l6+Q== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=Rr9u/jBHRhdo0tr3X33liGeHsAdnDOWTBhPbC6+SS7U=; b=RXdEww2WnrZI8tfkg5aVUyi74W2yxwq8zwgDDZtZd13Lb5z/ZNkjPFZ1/8+XLBIRmV B1E6Z8X4PYQVulycBU26BJZ6yiudfCvM6Gs9zd34Z8SBVMf3BuNP2GaZyChekWPBuBXM B9voON4wTtmp1rZe5qaIZN+YczHmriHUoOCtAZv+2fywPMEYGy5pTHSdp4dkGQb4bM8M r5D5OW0T98yuEwkKkZpO/b+5aVxXfxWx4MceYEOs5OGQfv7UIxERAiK4/yBBD/vZtsTh KkdMX+PKdQl4MjAdf2s4xMqTMvOk1n5EyWsugbvWl5GTlM2R36oGA8KilIrWb/CgOdW7 WgMQ== 1xFhpkust+/fQipI+5+hbnkxyXk= Mon, 06 Apr 2020 14:29:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2600:1700:3040:d690:2c1e:fa9b:714:6f2a? ([2600:1700:3040:d690:2c1e:fa9b:714:6f2a]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a131sm4752557oii.30.2020.04.06.14.29.15 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 06 Apr 2020 14:29:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2020 16:29:14 -0500 References: <2ldl8f18dt339ap9spsb688pugc9egmlu2@4ax.com> <89E595D8-8A5D-4F63-BAA4-BBF8CA81CB99@icloud.com> To: Robert Nogueirao Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] solar battery maintainer From: David Scheidt via Shop-talk Cc: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Cgo+IE9uIEFwciA2LCAyMDIwLCBhdCAxNDozNywgUm9iZXJ0IE5vZ3VlaXJhbyB2aWEgU2hvcC10 YWxrIDxzaG9wLXRhbGtAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQ+IHdyb3RlOgo+IAo+IFRoYW5rcyBndXlzLCBm b3IgdGhlIGdvb2QgYWR2aXNlIGFuZCBpbnNpZ2h0LiAgUmVtb3ZpbmcgdGhlIGJhdHRlcnkgaXMg b3V0IGFzIGl0IGlzIGZhY3RvcnkgbW91bnRlZCB1bmRlciB0aGUgc2VhdCwgd2hpY2ggcmVxdWly ZXMgcmVtb3ZpbmcgdGhlIHNlYXQgdG8gYWNjZXNzLCBhbmQgcmVtb3ZpbmcgdGhlIHNlYXQgcmVx dWlyZXMgcmVtb3ZpbmcgdGhlIHRoZSBpbnRlcmlvciBwYW5lbHMgKCB3aGF0IHRoYXQgYWJvdXQg R2VybWFuIGVuZ2luZWVyaW5nPyApLgo+IE15IGJhc2ljIHByb2JsZW0gaXMgdGhlIHRoZSBiYXR0 ZXJ5IGlzIGEgc21hbGwgTGF3biBtb3dlciBzaXplIGJhdHRlcnkgbmVlZGVkICB0byBmaXQgaW4g dGhlIGhvbGUgZm9yIHRoZSBiYXR0ZXJ5LCB3aGlsZSB0aGUgc3RhcnRlciBpcyBhIER5bmFzdGFy dCB3aGljaCBtZWFucyBubyBnZWFyIHJlZHVjdGlvbiBiZXR3ZWVuIHRoZSBzdGFydGVkIG1vdG9y IGFuZCBlbmdpbmUsIHNvIGl0IHRha2UgYSBiaWcgZHJhdyB0byBnZXQgaXQgdG8gdHVybiB0aGUg ZW5naW5lLiBpZiB0aGUgYmF0dGVyeSBpcyBmdWxseSBjaGFyZ2VkIG5vIHByb2JsZW0sIGJ1dCBp ZiBpdCBpcyBkb3duIGp1c3QgYSBiaXQgeW91IGdldCBvbmUgc2hvdCBhdCBzdGFydGluZyB0aGVu IGp1c3Qgc29sZW5vaWQgY2xpY2tzLiAgVGhpcyBpcyBjb21wb3VuZGVkIGJ5IHRoZSBmYWN0IHRo YXQgYWZ0ZXIgc3RhcnRpbmcgdGhlIHN0YXJ0ZXIgbW90b3Igc3dpdGNoIHRvIGJlaW5nIGEgZ2Vu ZXJhdG9yIGFsYXMgYSBwb29yIG9uZSBhdCBtYXliZSAxMCBhbXBzLiBTbyB0aGUgc29sYXIgY2hh cmdlci1tYWludGFpbmVyIGxvb2tzIHRvIGJlICBteSBvbmx5IHByYWN0aWNhbCBvcHRpb24uCj4g QWdhaW4gdGhhdOKAmXMgZm9yIHRoZSBpbnNpZ2h0cyBhbmQgYWR2aXNlLgo+IEJvYiAgICggbm90 IHF1aXRlIGFzIG9kZCBhcyBoaXMgY2FycykKCkNhbiB5b3UgZ2V0IHBvd2VyIHRvIHRoZSBidWls ZGluZz8gQSAxMjB2IDIwYSBmZWVkZXIgY2FuIGJ1cmllZCAxMuKAnSBkZWVwIGlmIGl0IGhhcyBn ZmNpIHByb3RlY3Rpb24uIFRoYXQgd291bGQgbGV0IHlvdSB1c2UgYSByZWd1bGFyIG1haW50YWlu ZXIuIApfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwoKU2hv cC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0CkRvbmF0ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9kb25hdGUu aHRtbApTdWdnZXN0ZWQgYW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAkMTIuOTYKQXJjaGl2ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3 dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9waXBlcm1haWwvc2hvcC10YWxrIGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9hcmNo aXZlCgpVbnN1YnNjcmliZS9NYW5hZ2U6IGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9tYWlsbWFuL29w dGlvbnMvc2hvcC10YWxrL21oYXJjQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Cgo= From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 6 18:04:42 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5402A0E6B for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 18:04:42 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (unknown [167.206.4.203]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81F33A10BC for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 18:01:01 -0600 (MDT) bh=xfdUbcsRssy9ZEdSD//SvZMZS2dyoPYiyNGknzLZBnc=; h=Message-ID:Date:To:From:Subject; b=Sb1qdC9yXBfQBJZHyJEU8tM3kgfx5Hoz5pbkrSgmfYne6ZljvVFA6285gJkMQxYMp gh6zn6ZqF2e/oOG0bJOvFt5iJ30AR+KSYn2qs1JOFP9N+DM2h+3XL3Pt+sSVHEfJ12 /pGF/yTBj2ho0XymJKAZ/MhlytoxFk3N61TSWs9UB49dDT9N0RylFnP6enxn1qIsQ+ Y5clJHXGeSX6x6YmRF+cmoMv9OXtzA7+aXTpllzdacDsS3YNBsoRpuqDNGk4r7/RRN WhMWpBmyUb4DMgoEeDuLdfTlm1oh3UJ+STzTQ3INVcxsSf3hP5l7lnlK5WnDKFgnFp A1w07LorMXDHg== Authentication-Results: mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net smtp.user=strovato; auth=pass (LOGIN) a=IBeqreNX0NbDiaMtWAF5wQ==:117 a=IBeqreNX0NbDiaMtWAF5wQ==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=HpEJnUlJZJkA:10 a=vggBfdFIAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=BuyMTLoTg0NmAItf0lgA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=X65PdSwAihYA:10 a=xupg4knwUDYA:10 a=Vi2WmCvfqLlCCkOY9nAA:9 a=A20jJcSlR3-Chk9G:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 Received: from [67.83.27.177] ([67.83.27.177:59488] helo=Steve-PC.optonline.net) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.9.48312 r(Core:3.6.9.0)) with ESMTPA id 52/BA-14838-CB2CB8E5; Mon, 06 Apr 2020 20:01:01 -0400 Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2020 20:00:10 -0400 To: Robert Nogueirao , Shop Talk References: <67220A95-102D-4845-957C-5A2BC4C79786@icloud.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Solar battery maintainer From: Steven Trovato via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============2487960445041439547== boundary="=====================_279568424==.ALT" --=====================_279568424==.ALT Battery tender is one of the well known name brands in battery maintainers. They make a solar version. I have no personal experience with it, but they have a good reputation. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004Q820TQ -Steve T. At 09:57 PM 4/4/2020, Robert Nogueirao via Shop-talk wrote: >Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64I've have an Isetta which is kept >in its own small garage separate from my shop. There is no power to >the small garage but I need to come up with a way to keep the >battery of the Isetta charged. > Any recommendations on a solar car battery maintainer -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --=====================_279568424==.ALT Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Battery tender is one of the well known name brands in battery maintainers.  They make a solar version.  I have no personal experience with it, but they have a good reputation. 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004Q820TQ

-Steve T.

At 09:57 PM 4/4/2020, Robert Nogueirao via Shop-talk wrote:
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64I=92ve have an Isetta which is kept in its own small garage separate from my shop. There is no power to the small garage but I need to come up with a way to keep the battery of the Isetta charged.
 Any recommendations on a solar car battery maintainer
3D"" Virus-= free. www.avast.com
--=====================_279568424==.ALT-- --===============2487960445041439547== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============2487960445041439547==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 7 08:34:12 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 471BEA0E81 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:34:12 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from chumdrop.sackheads.org (unknown [159.203.76.21]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6CECA07F2 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:34:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chumdrop.sackheads.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E99C9172793 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 10:34:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from chumdrop.sackheads.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (chumdrop.sackheads.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3R4yeXesrUjg for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 10:34:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.0.1.4] (cpe-74-133-176-135.kya.res.rr.com [74.133.176.135]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jimmie@sackheads.org) by chumdrop.sackheads.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B5BBC172792 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 10:34:05 -0400 (EDT) To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <67220A95-102D-4845-957C-5A2BC4C79786@icloud.com> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 10:34:04 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 Content-Language: en-US Subject: [Shop-talk] Float chargers From: Jimmie Mayfield via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net VGhlIHJlY2VudCBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIGFib3V0IHNvbGFyLXBvd2VyZWQgZmxvYXQgY2hhcmdlcnMg 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[127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98535A0D4F for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:50:06 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-ch2-02v.sys.comcast.net (unknown [69.252.207.34]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DA1DA0CC4 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.107]) by resqmta-ch2-02v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id LpKKjgDZBGF45LpY8jszVW; Tue, 07 Apr 2020 14:50:00 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1586271000; bh=mn2JqFeI0aPAIPQKMTCDiA7YkPx2+LO+zP62K46pv54=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=jUsI5K1YZdhgBaX4BAncYrvKqwOsdpPkKHZntVrMABm9BobmvlAmhIcUDpez6uMJY 1GEWPR7jmFuG4+5JjI74FIrjMWpPVp/d7TXvPzU3TTRG/dfJrovW1JFSxQLaozbiPN XA6pfYMdLyG27jhn848ZagzgFWQDrIzIHAuzt7/H63cvv7D5aAmYPL4rwjmBxS13m3 DSjVlpq5rmhLkzo/hw2wuWzVXZnNA+iE6rPppWmtGVwBOkAlLdw+zawY3ZC+dYOM7j C298zJY2kujMw7YdHBYFU1QBbUj+UP2Uq5SOrmQ844UKtHriM9q0Ue5euYbzpptDrO BENGlGnDIL+cg== Received: from [IPv6:2601:203:581:2df0:172:cb2f:87ae:744] ([IPv6:2601:203:581:2df0:172:cb2f:87ae:744]) by resomta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id LpXzjwb7ZByhMLpY7jMcta; Tue, 07 Apr 2020 14:50:00 +0000 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <67220A95-102D-4845-957C-5A2BC4C79786@icloud.com> <6e96465e-90bf-1fd6-b9f6-28be9abeedb4@sackheads.org> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 07:49:53 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Float chargers From: Bob Spidell via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net RldJVywgSSBwdXQgdHdvIEludGVyc3RhdGUgYmF0dGVyaWVzIGluIG15ICcwOCBNdXN0YW5nLS1h bG1vc3QgZGFpbHkgCmRyaXZlbiBvdmVyIDcwIG1pbGVzIG9uIHRoZSBmcmVld2F5LS1hbmQgdGhl eSBib3RoIGZhaWxlZCBhdCAyIHllYXJzIChubyAKd2FybmluZywganVzdCB3b3VsZG4ndCBzdGFy dCBteSBjYXIgYXQgd29yaykuwqAgSW50ZXJzdGF0ZSB1c2VkIHRvIGJlIGEgCidnbyB0bycgYnJh 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aXMgdGhlIG9ubHkgYmF0dGVyeSB0aGF0IEkndmUgY29tZSAKPiBhY3Jvc3MgdGhhdCBiZWhhdmVz IGxpa2UgdGhpcy4KPgo+Cj4KPgoKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX18KClNob3AtdGFsa0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldApEb25hdGU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cu dGVhbS5uZXQvZG9uYXRlLmh0bWwKU3VnZ2VzdGVkIGFubnVhbCBkb25hdGlvbiAgJDEyLjk2CkFy Y2hpdmU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvcGlwZXJtYWlsL3Nob3AtdGFsayBodHRwOi8vYXV0 b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvYXJjaGl2ZQoKVW5zdWJzY3JpYmUvTWFuYWdlOiBodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gudGVh bS5uZXQvbWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL3Nob3AtdGFsay9taGFyY0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldAoK From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 7 09:30:06 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2993DA13A4 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 09:30:06 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from ms11p00im-qufo17291601.me.com (unknown [17.58.38.45]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B8ABA10FF for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 09:23:27 -0600 (MDT) s=1a1hai; t=1586273004; bh=MQ8Z+gPtRPEYEQtjaESHgsk7ggCqTSOr50JEQps7GAI=; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=RNpG2b6fW0Ftgot+uLscV9VeGmv9uSjz1wnqH88N6gTbjRcIxgoCqUcli22MJWVuh 06dE4unXLWN0QPdSgJD/aqnR6j/g/Y7rmKmUHnoRTjfVvK861Nex52Sw844dBfQHJM W1Me9VSfuC5itb4OVoVYfyc03onJ2Z1FichT/3RRQ29PdpF6SuHbTECOMWcvt69lGS IQibbsI+uak9zreQhNSLvl4tmXGPmIRjMNIaF0e6K+tN9WWAyJJQpbiFIjGTp+QdDc DBWPntmJLqvojWFuulmhor+u/cECL8easLRvEgPuDubPhkV3E+qwqR7nr16JBDU++d +dR4QxI0R2wzg== Received: from [192.168.88.55] (unknown [199.38.189.253]) by ms11p00im-qufo17291601.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7B24C200304; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 15:23:24 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 10:23:22 -0500 References: <6e96465e-90bf-1fd6-b9f6-28be9abeedb4@sackheads.org> To: Jimmie Mayfield definitions=2020-04-07_07:, , signatures=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-2004070129 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Float chargers From: Pat Horne via Shop-talk Cc: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net U291bmRzIGxpa2UgYSBxdWVzdGlvbiBmb3IgaW50ZXJzdGF0ZS4gCgpQZWFjZSwKUGF0CgpQYXQg SG9ybmUgCldlIHN1cHBvcnQgSGFiaXRhdCBmb3IgSHVtYW5pdHkKCgo+IE9uIEFwciA3LCAyMDIw LCBhdCA5OjM0IEFNLCBKaW1taWUgTWF5ZmllbGQgdmlhIFNob3AtdGFsayA8c2hvcC10YWxrQGF1 dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0PiB3cm90ZToKPiAKCu+7v1RoZSByZWNlbnQgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBhYm91dCBz b2xhci1wb3dlcmVkIGZsb2F0IGNoYXJnZXJzIGhhcyByZW1pbmRlZCBtZSBvZiBhbiBpc3N1ZSB0 aGF0IEkndmUgeWV0IHRvIHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgb3IgcmVzb2x2ZS4uLgoKSSBoYXZlIGEgQmF0dGVy eSBNaW5kZXIgMTIyNDggKDEyViAyLzQvOEEpIGNoYXJnZXIvZGUtc3VsZmF0b3Igd2l0aCB0ZW1w ZXJhdHVyZSBjb21wZW5zYXRpb24gc2Vuc29yLiAgV2hpbGUgSSd2ZSBuZXZlciBiZWVuIGFibGUg dG8gYXBwcmVjaWFibHkgcmVzdG9yZSBhIGRlYWQgVVBTIGJhdHRlcnkgdXNpbmcgdGhlIGRlLXN1 bGZhdGlvbiBtb2RlLCBpdCBzZWVtcyB0byB3b3JrIGZpbmUgYXMgYSBzbG93IGNoYXJnZXIuICBJ 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X19fCgpTaG9wLXRhbGtAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQKRG9uYXRlOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnRlYW0ubmV0 L2RvbmF0ZS5odG1sClN1Z2dlc3RlZCBhbm51YWwgZG9uYXRpb24gICQxMi45NgpBcmNoaXZlOiBo dHRwOi8vd3d3LnRlYW0ubmV0L3BpcGVybWFpbC9zaG9wLXRhbGsgaHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0u bmV0L2FyY2hpdmUKClVuc3Vic2NyaWJlL01hbmFnZTogaHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0L21h aWxtYW4vb3B0aW9ucy9zaG9wLXRhbGsvcGF0aW50ZXhhc0BpY2xvdWQuY29tCgpfX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwoKU2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRl YW0ubmV0CkRvbmF0ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9kb25hdGUuaHRtbApTdWdnZXN0ZWQg YW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAkMTIuOTYKQXJjaGl2ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9waXBl cm1haWwvc2hvcC10YWxrIGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9hcmNoaXZlCgpVbnN1YnNjcmli ZS9NYW5hZ2U6IGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9tYWlsbWFuL29wdGlvbnMvc2hvcC10YWxr L21oYXJjQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Cgo= From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 7 09:51:27 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9A11A054F for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 09:51:27 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-io1-f49.google.com (unknown [209.85.166.49]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 039BBA0031 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 09:51:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-io1-f49.google.com with SMTP id h6so3813938iok.11 for ; Tue, 07 Apr 2020 08:51:00 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=laeqNnP3f0CHVDfiMBepQShPKwtMgxfcfao+EHnggIA=; b=pQqcTwGaORiCgN1kowOLmWljtQ2WdysU9+xHdhCnuSfpgxh4xLgu9J2XVEXY1OCTtb hlhw3xwNOk5iXskd94Ku4N7zl9pK7mioV61O08zoP+dTbJOEWB10mz9x9mWnhcChlvDj smyCpczdoOaRuWnDZdof6jWMTq6LOr5AevPN48IA4UoOHP31F+CvUIvjcggUjL9g7NHd aX+d9bVLd8Seg9ktovrwdj2a0pjhGxeEBsIIRTsDF25K5eQXcHAlcFuXiNfLAcAzSsOp U+QAwkHI+lrF4iCehfZ6zj0lDAyUdO3Cjaz/zH2Oa02iIxUkWEcK+MymWOqiYnEFFsRD GE/g== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=laeqNnP3f0CHVDfiMBepQShPKwtMgxfcfao+EHnggIA=; b=KTtT5NrLP2vHipRh9aYe3BB3zJVdF3/EDklFzl1g43N5f8ZzikgkARp2V4zmiGPEzy vTmDKfD0TSTCaN9rGzFMeG1X00UQxFPEPL3ui3ydONOzpComLOucMKU2vj10HNovfmjH IcN6YSw2mX+92cWk9S1fhEMuTkZltuCuq3lPRJmQxHKZj1l+H1ykkcyC9xexmsqVduPh RvETLhOg1v0L6lpq7HGoZUG9cKzPmeQdEsdasv6JtMUfr0lmdIOp/Hx54nEYLM+MG/+t /ejDr1RDp6mJImv+qSbbnJ/xb/OjBiuiJPYNE+ocHsHVVv7fwX1sJUZ6u5gb8HD2xXNj V3tg== FOWPpIOR0zf/uUjwG4ZZk1mZFFA/Y43DR38yXBrtyA== Tue, 07 Apr 2020 08:50:58 -0700 (PDT) References: <67220A95-102D-4845-957C-5A2BC4C79786@icloud.com> <6e96465e-90bf-1fd6-b9f6-28be9abeedb4@sackheads.org> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 11:50:47 -0400 To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Float chargers From: Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============7767371424824702439== --0000000000008fad6405a2b559dd Sounds like it may have partial bridging of the plates, causing a drain internally. In the olden days, there were simple ways to check...I don't know what you do now - take it to the FLAPS and let them put it on the machine? Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 10:34 AM Jimmie Mayfield via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > The recent discussion about solar-powered float chargers has reminded me > of an issue that I've yet to understand or resolve... > > I have a Battery Minder 12248 (12V 2/4/8A) charger/de-sulfator with > temperature compensation sensor. While I've never been able to > appreciably restore a dead UPS battery using the de-sulfation mode, it > seems to work fine as a slow charger. It has several modes -- gel-cell, > AGM or flooded -- which, near as I can tell, adjusts the threshold > voltage at which the charger switches from bulk-charge mode to > float-charge/de-sulfation mode. > > Every 12V battery that I've ever connected to the charger, even the old > AGM batteries taken out of my UPS units, eventually reached the > threshold voltage and switched over to float mode (usually within 30-45 > minutes for a nearly-fully-charged battery). Except one. > > About 2 years ago I installed an Interstate battery from Costco (size > 27F, 890CA, 710CCA) in my truck. It's a flooded battery and if I > understand Interstate's spec correctly, its capacity works out to around > 100Ah. The battery has a resting voltage of 12.6V so it doesn't appear > to have any shorted cells and has no trouble starting my truck. So it > seems to be a normally healthy battery, right? > > Thing is...I've never seen my charger go into float mode when connected > to this battery even when it was nearly new. With the recent pandemic > stay-at-home orders, yesterday I decided to connect my truck to the > charger to stave off parasitic drain (measured to be 20-30mA) that may > have accumulated over the past week of inactivity. I'm currently at 16 > hours (@4A) and it still seems to be in bulk-charging mode. I have > difficulty believing that the battery needed 50+ Ah. > > So what's going on here? This is the only battery that I've come across > that behaves like this. > > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com > > --0000000000008fad6405a2b559dd Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sounds like it may have partial bridging of the plates, ca= using a drain internally.=C2=A0 In the olden days, there were simple ways t= o check...I don't know what you do now - take it to the FLAPS and let t= hem=C2=A0put it on the=C2=A0machine?

Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 10:34 AM Jimmie May= field via Shop-talk <shop-ta= lk@autox.team.net> wrote:
The recent discussion about solar-powered float chargers h= as reminded me
of an issue that I've yet to understand or resolve...

I have a Battery Minder 12248 (12V 2/4/8A) charger/de-sulfator with
temperature compensation sensor.=C2=A0 While I've never been able to appreciably restore a dead UPS battery using the de-sulfation mode, it
seems to work fine as a slow charger.=C2=A0 It has several modes -- gel-cel= l,
AGM or flooded -- which, near as I can tell, adjusts the threshold
voltage at which the charger switches from bulk-charge mode to
float-charge/de-sulfation mode.

Every 12V battery that I've ever connected to the charger, even the old=
AGM batteries taken out of my UPS units, eventually reached the
threshold voltage and switched over to float mode (usually within 30-45 minutes for a nearly-fully-charged battery).=C2=A0 Except one.

About 2 years ago I installed an Interstate battery from Costco (size
27F, 890CA, 710CCA) in my truck.=C2=A0 It's a flooded battery and if I =
understand Interstate's spec correctly, its capacity works out to aroun= d
100Ah.=C2=A0 The battery has a resting voltage of 12.6V so it doesn't a= ppear
to have any shorted cells and has no trouble starting my truck.=C2=A0 So it=
seems to be a normally healthy battery, right?

Thing is...I've never seen my charger go into float mode when connected=
to this battery even when it was nearly new.=C2=A0 With the recent pandemic=
stay-at-home orders, yesterday I decided to connect my truck to the
charger to stave off parasitic drain (measured to be 20-30mA) that may
have accumulated over the past week of inactivity.=C2=A0 I'm currently = at 16
hours (@4A) and it still seems to be in bulk-charging mode.=C2=A0 I have difficulty believing that the battery needed 50+ Ah.

So what's going on here?=C2=A0 This is the only battery that I've c= ome across
that behaves like this.


_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/fishplate@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.= team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com

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Wed, 8 Apr 2020 00:38:22 +0000 Received: from MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e86::47) by DM6NAM10FT061.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e86::175) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2900.15 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 00:38:22 +0000 Received: from MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::60de:5b8a:83ae:c7e8]) by MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::60de:5b8a:83ae:c7e8%7]) with mapi id 15.20.2878.021; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 00:38:22 +0000 To: Robert Nogueirao Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] solar battery maintainer Thread-Index: AQHWC8eFhoj5j2Z/e0itWSB82TrJj6hrkGKAgADtvgCAAeUkEA== Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 00:37:57 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 00:37:51 +0000 References: <2ldl8f18dt339ap9spsb688pugc9egmlu2@4ax.com> <89E595D8-8A5D-4F63-BAA4-BBF8CA81CB99@icloud.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:60A9BC86D65DD1BB9436A679427D54DD0C9E611ED48AD7B57CDCEF30CD716542; UpperCasedChecksum:5A308579826319BC73B84953C3A98CA7D9CC74282D0159B5982C612D78BEBE91; SizeAsReceived:6962; Count:46 x-tmn: [t4G+3C40jcMsBC1J/MJKIG3v8xyFUdyc] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-incomingheadercount: 46 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b6d67814-0a35-4d17-0c2c-08d7db552456 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6NAM10HT246: x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 9IdrmIpEHkELRV3CSQ8qvGfE0Vnry+jw0wW79/LI5drokAtM0qPbDwa5NXpp91dhR1BNzsLdF05aiTqbaoy+DYvw8r7/D6zicvEJrEaegbeIXNc3PFsKfi4MU/yySAUS6o8L1dpSD5Qz2zZKMhzuXCWlt6MijNxPsnOQUxV2sekuj/yxxk9Q3O8NjJUJqzV0ib4coEoehIBRrs+eK321ml/QUZf/1P1xbtceMyPpbmQ= x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:0; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MWHPR06MB3151.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:; DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: SE0O1vaiPgZYHs72ROgVpKajeLfSI4LZj4I5SSK3rzJniCzn3FpwjAHP84FGygCRUaySCfnvQyaOdolSTWtfuKiGA1OoJRkxwdXV2ovoUzpIgK0d0bSsaKrafXLqmS/yp0dUbD8Axp2BMjz5LvVT+g== x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] solar battery maintainer From: Jack Brooks via Shop-talk Cc: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Qm9iLA0KDQpIb3cgYWJvdXQgYSBiYXR0ZXJ5IGRpc2Nvbm5lY3Qgc3dpdGNoPyAgVGhlIGJhdHRl cnkgd2lsbCBob2xkIGEgY2hhcmdlIGZvciBtb3N0IG9mIHRoZSB3aW50ZXIgd2l0aG91dCBhIGxv YWQuICBCZWZvcmUgeW91IHN0YXJ0IGl0IHVwLCBnZXQgYSBjaGFyZ2VyIG91dCB0aGVyZSBhbmQg dG9wIGl0IG9mZi4gIE15IFRyaXVtcGhzIGFyZSBpbiB0aGUgZ2FyYWdlIGFsbCB3aW50ZXIgd2hl cmUgSSBoYXZlIHBvd2VyLCBidXQgdGhpcyBpcyB3aGF0IEkgZG8uICBUaGV5IGFyZSBhbHdheXMg YWJvdmUgMTJ2IGFmdGVyIDMtNCBtb250aHMgb2Ygc2l0dGluZyB3aXRoIGEgY2FibGUgZGlzY29u bmVjdGVkLiANCg0KSmFjaw0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogU2hv cC10YWxrIDxzaG9wLXRhbGstYm91bmNlc0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldD4gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIFJv YmVydCBOb2d1ZWlyYW8gdmlhIFNob3AtdGFsaw0KU2VudDogTW9uZGF5LCBBcHJpbCA2LCAyMDIw IDEyOjM4IFBNDQpUbzogcndpbEBzYmNnbG9iYWwubmV0DQpDYzogc2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRl YW0ubmV0DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW1Nob3AtdGFsa10gc29sYXIgYmF0dGVyeSBtYWludGFpbmVy DQoNClRoYW5rcyBndXlzLCBmb3IgdGhlIGdvb2QgYWR2aXNlIGFuZCBpbnNpZ2h0LiAgUmVtb3Zp bmcgdGhlIGJhdHRlcnkgaXMgb3V0IGFzIGl0IGlzIGZhY3RvcnkgbW91bnRlZCB1bmRlciB0aGUg c2VhdCwgd2hpY2ggcmVxdWlyZXMgcmVtb3ZpbmcgdGhlIHNlYXQgdG8gYWNjZXNzLCBhbmQgcmVt b3ZpbmcgdGhlIHNlYXQgcmVxdWlyZXMgcmVtb3ZpbmcgdGhlIHRoZSBpbnRlcmlvciBwYW5lbHMg KCB3aGF0IHRoYXQgYWJvdXQgR2VybWFuIGVuZ2luZWVyaW5nPyApLg0KTXkgYmFzaWMgcHJvYmxl bSBpcyB0aGUgdGhlIGJhdHRlcnkgaXMgYSBzbWFsbCBMYXduIG1vd2VyIHNpemUgYmF0dGVyeSBu ZWVkZWQgIHRvIGZpdCBpbiB0aGUgaG9sZSBmb3IgdGhlIGJhdHRlcnksIHdoaWxlIHRoZSBzdGFy dGVyIGlzIGEgRHluYXN0YXJ0IHdoaWNoIG1lYW5zIG5vIGdlYXIgcmVkdWN0aW9uIGJldHdlZW4g dGhlIHN0YXJ0ZWQgbW90b3IgYW5kIGVuZ2luZSwgc28gaXQgdGFrZSBhIGJpZyBkcmF3IHRvIGdl dCBpdCB0byB0dXJuIHRoZSBlbmdpbmUuIGlmIHRoZSBiYXR0ZXJ5IGlzIGZ1bGx5IGNoYXJnZWQg bm8gcHJvYmxlbSwgYnV0IGlmIGl0IGlzIGRvd24ganVzdCBhIGJpdCB5b3UgZ2V0IG9uZSBzaG90 IGF0IHN0YXJ0aW5nIHRoZW4ganVzdCBzb2xlbm9pZCBjbGlja3MuICBUaGlzIGlzIGNvbXBvdW5k ZWQgYnkgdGhlIGZhY3QgdGhhdCBhZnRlciBzdGFydGluZyB0aGUgc3RhcnRlciBtb3RvciBzd2l0 Y2ggdG8gYmVpbmcgYSBnZW5lcmF0b3IgYWxhcyBhIHBvb3Igb25lIGF0IG1heWJlIDEwIGFtcHMu IFNvIHRoZSBzb2xhciBjaGFyZ2VyLW1haW50YWluZXIgbG9va3MgdG8gYmUgIG15IG9ubHkgcHJh Y3RpY2FsIG9wdGlvbi4NCkFnYWluIHRoYXTigJlzIGZvciB0aGUgaW5zaWdodHMgYW5kIGFkdmlz ZS4NCkJvYiAgICggbm90IHF1aXRlIGFzIG9kZCBhcyBoaXMgY2FycykNCg0KPiBPbiBBcHIgNiwg MjAyMCwgYXQgMTI6MjcgQU0sIHJ3aWwtLS0gdmlhIFNob3AtdGFsayA8c2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94 LnRlYW0ubmV0PiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+IGV4cGVuc2l2ZS4gIA0KPiANCj4gQSBjaGVjayBvZiBw dXJjaGFzZXJzJyByYXRpbmdzIGNhbiBzb21ldGltZXMgZ2l2ZSB5b3UgYW4gaWRlYSBpZiBhIA0K PiBwYXJ0aWN1bGFyIHBhbmVsIHRlbmRzIHRvIG92ZXJjaGFyZ2UgdW5sZXNzIGl0IGlzIGRpc2Nv bm5lY3RlZCBhdCB0aGUgDQo+IHJpZ2h0IHRpbWUuDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KDQpTaG9wLXRhbGtAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQNCkRvbmF0 ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9kb25hdGUuaHRtbA0KU3VnZ2VzdGVkIGFubnVhbCBkb25h dGlvbiAgJDEyLjk2DQpBcmNoaXZlOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnRlYW0ubmV0L3BpcGVybWFpbC9zaG9w LXRhbGsgaHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0L2FyY2hpdmUNCg0KVW5zdWJzY3JpYmUvTWFuYWdl OiBodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvbWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL3Nob3AtdGFsay9qaWJyb29r c0BsaXZlLmNvbQ0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fXwoKU2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0CkRvbmF0ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5l dC9kb25hdGUuaHRtbApTdWdnZXN0ZWQgYW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAkMTIuOTYKQXJjaGl2ZTog aHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9waXBlcm1haWwvc2hvcC10YWxrIGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFt Lm5ldC9hcmNoaXZlCgpVbnN1YnNjcmliZS9NYW5hZ2U6IGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9t YWlsbWFuL29wdGlvbnMvc2hvcC10YWxrL21oYXJjQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Cgo= From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 8 23:07:33 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CDAEA0EE1 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 23:07:33 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (unknown [209.86.89.65]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF277A0E31 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 23:07:27 -0600 (MDT) s=dk12062016; t=1586408847; bh=WEj2ODEouSiEZOg7MP/SX0Iq4MC2unEO6W3k WIEC+D4=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Message-ID: Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; b=eDIoGzcM4YTQ+g1x2KL5bnZj 7WErrCX23WAV9lFjUrXXEOW5IF8HHcRsMEUzAxha364MDVcacNVqsLjzqHX3Opc6ipn nnTdLATF9yLenzckSyvbCeSFDCuqWhc76726KlRDj56PYAFkc7Qga89CncZPspCxMOP RU7aogyInCeYkWFZR+0Kz7NpdAUpScIeCgOfd/Wzl8cn6q6GM4wbscurPjeRnHdtjbk l5xgHnPTJUfpaVj2y1pf3SYY3+eSjpY475oskSq1x330YM1XgifXo1QxX/flFvgao0A ktAmoBT6VmJkBUB7clTm3+bs1M2cj0rfUCrkWzlBfU9qKwDgRg== DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk12062016; d=earthlink.net; b=oRztFXetZV51oQgcN55RjTUJKBaen/a+k/w4xg8oZsFwSM2F8iQLXZ5DpQKdS7WkS+dmcHWA4AbbD5jh0FpiiX+QejVbm1M0S2symNE4S8wOr9IDAxRpuAAfIMOqKivkv52/9eArMpkHfdu3AZSAXLeivMoXPdMEHqmJ+TeLI2yoHzXV36XjZ0SEBkI25SEbs8fiOoKnk2B1fXXHU+BpiNc0Ab13YhINz0TI1UhCbmWXLXxjmLgBDnni/zwtoJhM4xxmpmrVUdl+0VPRYsxooSOr88h3utILFvzD4TlevuLv+A6pICloeoM7XDkxpSvR9OeRzXLXYVPx3nQh+1zWdA==; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.176] (helo=wamui-kristoff.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4) (envelope-from ) id 1jMPPT-0001jc-1T; Thu, 09 Apr 2020 01:07:27 -0400 Received: from 184.181.124.168 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 01:07:26 -0400 Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 22:07:26 -0700 (GMT-07:00) To: Jimmie Mayfield , shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Float chargers From: Brian Kemp via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net It is Costco. Take it back and ask them to test it. I believe they still have a 36 Month Limited Warranty Replacement. I'd call your local Costco and see if they test the batteries. Brian -----Original Message----- >From: Jimmie Mayfield via Shop-talk >Sent: Apr 7, 2020 7:34 AM >To: shop-talk@autox.team.net >Subject: [Shop-talk] Float chargers > > >About 2 years ago I installed an Interstate battery from Costco _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 9 00:59:56 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEE73A06D8 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 00:59:56 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from p-impout001.msg.pkvw.co.charter.net (unknown [47.43.26.141]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FBB3A0667 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 00:59:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from RYPC ([172.248.153.253]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id MRACjvGfmvUY1MRACjkuyp; Thu, 09 Apr 2020 06:59:48 +0000 a=qZdJX8rkFm4y5TzLCyaqOg==:117 a=qZdJX8rkFm4y5TzLCyaqOg==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=zbUymu4gjlabxbIt7ZIA:9 a=noGxVug_vBU_T2IV:21 a=WGFAaom_JF19KZwt:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 To: "'Shop-talk'" References: <1702970555.97.1586408847046@wamui-kristoff.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 23:52:34 -0700 Thread-Index: AdYOLMm9qHJ7nJopTNa2Hy1TuON14gADh4jg 3siogO+CIIJ4LHYj/yOTanZsMnoDjSt1XNzLPHwUlBoDaQZut3sNOzGG Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Float chargers From: Randall via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net I'm not sure if it's still their policy or not; but used to be you could return batteries to customer service (rather than the battery department) and get a full refund. Not a warranty on the battery, just part of their general customer satisfaction guarantee. No testing, no questions asked. I did that a couple years ago with a 4 year old battery that wouldn't hold a charge any more, and walked out with a new one for $5 (only because the core charge went up). -- Randall > It is Costco. Take it back and ask them to test it. I > believe they still have a 36 Month Limited Warranty > Replacement. I'd call your local Costco and see if they test > the batteries. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 9 06:32:20 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F767A0F05 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 06:32:20 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sonic301-2.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com (unknown [74.6.129.41]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C747A0EF3 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 06:32:13 -0600 (MDT) t=1586435533; bh=78698NcjiK+fMlGedbjzks0i4VamGQaPMiHlWsOVRhs=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=cwH3LP1AVK0QSOTYrCaOE+HP9fKHRFp43TTZ5swCHOfO9FCGR6SiS5p2Ie9oBXmTP/x1Ju7jJWgvGmG7psQCuXldQeo4q6hLGMZAjoLromW/aFMZIhNWtYsbbhmKePH2/94HPF7CJJRANwjzCJd4heTKNe45lfWlsJcrrS0dgDYyJVk/+dFVwYxM5C84ADQyGF+GLICuWwSIIGPmdzIHdx1rTkadJ0XA0nSXkWdDW5NjDM8+Ns8HZbvu9x8q0wAzsPpLVRfL4nvQqDUY38xmgPAn/7LQ3xuJafcKvdjm7oo4rkd+H6l2Ts9rDzhMo2kXm4nd3/IpYFaFVvFPax7MRg== B6I5uqC7lHuszwzzsZJjE8UTiARC6wHTbqyPapFqbSR2E1FMBxUz9XzYQq8Gr3k70GMTZQEPnrka VCtixw3JtlpZkmbLrrWUoVQ6GvQW2B9EoQ8jCxx7RrSPGO98GUXWYcAinKipEJBCOlhS_QlIzgSw UP.loeabkgh9S7F4C14P_DpF2.6i9l10fKDamWbFI1zDHIIoafkPlsxlcMBC0_CydeaKBmm8PARK jtEo6Pp78n_P92LoQPWq6.b760XTzbs3RRrAYvQ7HDvuscMDit9BvvcBxcwTK4oPQDwhAJ3OH_gR dAVHwLLqX5tWA1wuUKJFjglqEV0pHiaTJ4P7SM9yo7u4zR1FycP5AIwYlO_iprgJI9oS_rqqakp3 1VbyjJdpViok4t2Y0fhL0znMDKsXO4U1jp.VSLohhN2RBc63tim_UOdy3zv1EPYIKV.wVDm0noKd gBGeMylsEKKWlB3E1Ab6R5wqIl_WsSE8Qs7KLd8sYeqXAkK_eyuPaZDjJhiGyUTx.sRD0ot9shGC WcxjFf1PGuB40ZklgtZHshvVTkXkQCeQDJcaCRw1Ou.tf5z8sbKQuuKYnul0T.c_0gEAjav.zrVl .BFLmkajtYgbMnsratDEuJ52qQucIkHYdlbRqkSyHweymZz.qJVo1L2Sc85rofNwvHIczGG9UpkA AM2cvfY7V9IU8O83f6KAzbnWVYRg0Zjg1fYXiVZCM.0538k8eYuNxUxY8SdevAAqbpevxyy7c8FV FmFwRMTPdo3WV5W9fcMbnG828AW9lqH0ARZMizCYRx6JZw_zFh5QVWkILA6HoHnXVRbRhpl.JJFY nv5PCLm8YHvgZpKOo5Sg_oS_BRgSPGF7mQMz_Ws2tdj5qF0gF2nuAbHRLzSTr7qVy3rWyit_DbzU vQ4s5QcirrrJqoF2RN136c_fElSPguBz0RVF.TM5dHKyRsByK4heRCIZiMkQHVXWe9qMy9iA1KCz jEniv9TrPA32QLVn8Qd0oxhZoM80hvU22S_4eV0XXcrvvAiIZWhwEVx9oW9srG0dNF3d56gzSqYm Ese2IwcbxM2VClVE9nRoAGI1HzMqntzapkb7CozYO5wyYdjVtisHoBa7IGljCrDCTWY5.dITzsmt Rp01nO2rC3G.99qzAEh0i3xSTTSxDo.50ANTyFJhrEVwqnbDjlkYzMmUHZF3LfTDzGT1nJykil5I 6mu2JaaWIRZ_UodTwk4OmKiW6yYDNu2Pd_sVyO1rR1PWUfBxjnzcwDXJme2ogCd.lOp4p5nu0Lhr YJ5w- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic301.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 12:32:13 +0000 Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 12:32:12 +0000 (UTC) To: mayfield+shoptalk@sackheads.org, shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <67220A95-102D-4845-957C-5A2BC4C79786@icloud.com> <6e96465e-90bf-1fd6-b9f6-28be9abeedb4@sackheads.org> x64; rv:74.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/74.0 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Float chargers From: DAVID MASSEY via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============2455932104622172747== boundary="----=_Part_1982471_587268128.1586435532474" ------=_Part_1982471_587268128.1586435532474 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The way these multi-phase chargers work is they charge at constant-current= (Bulk Mode) until a voltage threshold (~14.25V) is reached at which point = it switches to constant voltage (Absorption Mode) until the current drops b= elow a threshold where it switches to Float Mode.=C2=A0 The data sheet does= n't talk much about this (or at all) but it is possible that this charger i= s calibrated for a 40 A-H battery more typical of what is found in private = vehicles.=C2=A0 It is possible that the absorption current on a much larger= battery (100 A-H) never gets below this threshold so the charger never swi= tches to Float.=C2=A0=20 But this is just speculation. OTOH, I had a 5-year old Optima in my TR6 that displayed the same symptom.= =C2=A0 But on my car I can connect the charger in such a manner that I can = monitor the charge current on the in-dash ammeter which never dropped below= a few amps.=C2=A0 In fact I first noticed the problem while driving as the= ammeter was centered indicating zero amps early in the drive but when appr= oaching the house the current was definitely in showing a few amps of charg= e which is not at all typical.=C2=A0=20 I took it to the shop specializing in batteries and they rolled out their t= ester and pronounced it "good."=C2=A0 In my estimation, their test is not c= omprehensive and only checked for open and/or shorted cells and for current= capacity.=C2=A0 They were more than happy to take my money when I insisted= that the battery was not going to last and I was happy with replacing the = battery since it was at least five years old and had been abused (completel= y discharged at least once). So, I guess the short answer is what is the current into the battery when t= he charger hangs in the Absorption Mode? =20 Dave=20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Jimmie Mayfield via Shop-talk To: shop-talk Sent: Tue, Apr 7, 2020 9:34 am Subject: [Shop-talk] Float chargers The recent discussion about solar-powered float chargers has reminded me=20 of an issue that I've yet to understand or resolve... I have a Battery Minder 12248 (12V 2/4/8A) charger/de-sulfator with=20 temperature compensation sensor.=C2=A0 While I've never been able to=20 appreciably restore a dead UPS battery using the de-sulfation mode, it=20 seems to work fine as a slow charger.=C2=A0 It has several modes -- gel-cel= l,=20 AGM or flooded -- which, near as I can tell, adjusts the threshold=20 voltage at which the charger switches from bulk-charge mode to=20 float-charge/de-sulfation mode. Every 12V battery that I've ever connected to the charger, even the old=20 AGM batteries taken out of my UPS units, eventually reached the=20 threshold voltage and switched over to float mode (usually within 30-45=20 minutes for a nearly-fully-charged battery).=C2=A0 Except one. About 2 years ago I installed an Interstate battery from Costco (size=20 27F, 890CA, 710CCA) in my truck.=C2=A0 It's a flooded battery and if I=20 understand Interstate's spec correctly, its capacity works out to around=20 100Ah.=C2=A0 The battery has a resting voltage of 12.6V so it doesn't appea= r=20 to have any shorted cells and has no trouble starting my truck.=C2=A0 So it= =20 seems to be a normally healthy battery, right? Thing is...I've never seen my charger go into float mode when connected=20 to this battery even when it was nearly new.=C2=A0 With the recent pandemic= =20 stay-at-home orders, yesterday I decided to connect my truck to the=20 charger to stave off parasitic drain (measured to be 20-30mA) that may=20 have accumulated over the past week of inactivity.=C2=A0 I'm currently at 1= 6=20 hours (@4A) and it still seems to be in bulk-charging mode.=C2=A0 I have=20 difficulty believing that the battery needed 50+ Ah. So what's going on here?=C2=A0 This is the only battery that I've come acro= ss=20 that behaves like this. _______________________________________________ ------=_Part_1982471_587268128.1586435532474 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The way these multi-phase chargers work is they char= ge at constant-current (Bulk Mode) until a voltage threshold (~14.25V) is r= eached at which point it switches to constant voltage (Absorption Mode) unt= il the current drops below a threshold where it switches to Float Mode.&nbs= p; The data sheet doesn't talk much about this (or at all) but it is possib= le that this charger is calibrated for a 40 A-H battery more typical of what is found in private vehicles.  It is possi= ble that the absorption current on a much larger battery (100 A-H) never ge= ts below this threshold so the charger never switches to Float. 

But this is just speculation.

OTOH, I had a 5-year old Optima in my TR6 that displa= yed the same symptom.  But on my car I can connect the charger in such= a manner that I can monitor the charge current on the in-dash ammeter whic= h never dropped below a few amps.  In fact I first noticed the problem= while driving as the ammeter was centered indicating zero amps early in th= e drive but when approaching the house the current was definitely in showin= g a few amps of charge which is not at all typical. 

I took it to the shop specializing in batteries and t= hey rolled out their tester and pronounced it "good."  In my estimatio= n, their test is not comprehensive and only checked for open and/or shorted= cells and for current capacity.  They were more than happy to take my= money when I insisted that the battery was not going to last and I was hap= py with replacing the battery since it was at least five years old and had = been abused (completely discharged at least once).

So, I guess the short answer is what is the current i= nto the battery when the charger hangs in the Absorption Mode?

Dave



-----= Original Message-----
From: Jimmie Mayfield via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
To: shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Sent: Tue, Apr 7, 2020 9:34 am
Subject: [Shop-talk] Float chargers

The recent discussion about solar-powered float chargers h= as reminded me
of an issue that I've yet to understand o= r resolve...

I have a Battery Minder 1= 2248 (12V 2/4/8A) charger/de-sulfator with
temperature c= ompensation sensor.  While I've never been able to
= appreciably restore a dead UPS battery using the de-sulfation mode, it
seems to work fine as a slow charger.  It has several m= odes -- gel-cell,
AGM or flooded -- which, near as I can= tell, adjusts the threshold
voltage at which the charge= r switches from bulk-charge mode to
float-charge/de-sulf= ation mode.

Every 12V battery that I'v= e ever connected to the charger, even the old
AGM batter= ies taken out of my UPS units, eventually reached the
th= reshold voltage and switched over to float mode (usually within 30-45
minutes for a nearly-fully-charged battery).  Except one= .

About 2 years ago I installed an Int= erstate battery from Costco (size
27F, 890CA, 710CCA) in= my truck.  It's a flooded battery and if I
underst= and Interstate's spec correctly, its capacity works out to around
100Ah.  The battery has a resting voltage of 12.6V so it doe= sn't appear
to have any shorted cells and has no trouble= starting my truck.  So it
seems to be a normally h= ealthy battery, right?

Thing is...I've= never seen my charger go into float mode when connected
to this battery even when it was nearly new.  With the recent pandemi= c
stay-at-home orders, yesterday I decided to connect my= truck to the
charger to stave off parasitic drain (meas= ured to be 20-30mA) that may
have accumulated over the p= ast week of inactivity.  I'm currently at 16
hours = (@4A) and it still seems to be in bulk-charging mode.  I have
difficulty believing that the battery needed 50+ Ah.

So what's going on here?  This is the only b= attery that I've come across
that behaves like this.



______________________________________________= _


------=_Part_1982471_587268128.1586435532474-- --===============2455932104622172747== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============2455932104622172747==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 10 13:27:56 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E638CA0FFE for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 13:27:56 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-il1-f178.google.com (unknown [209.85.166.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 119C0A0D74 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 13:25:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-il1-f178.google.com with SMTP id i14so2718046ilr.11 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 12:25:32 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=MITumrd4jEveMLzrHcZC41WRYtXMZLwiPU4gShxJMXo=; b=uvoAh+IWPfJMrvcFB8BQQL5Zjyqkgg6QqzmF+zGW/xNPgLpYFBaQdoDuAL76opm1+d v6YyeTaQkc3oQCfTMpCzLRmrFjl1Ifrqb4dOWzUpr+nk4CwgJLrBnlwmLbumAq3WbQgg WdvLvhxqAWD03DVX71+/++8zGsA72malX4R8AgE9mpTeaA7iDXMfIJGdOrdEOW2mr1J1 8q11dlf1m2odDPqHKtIXY6vdoWYhEaTFVAJYuDZoxKMWNVSB0ACkVnrAnnUI6qU+2og5 PmIigMILLVYZf2zGGFWeaiGbSiDqUdLbEn/xQdsq3blIxyYNY1Vl5Hgi7+pVNB1au/1c he0w== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=MITumrd4jEveMLzrHcZC41WRYtXMZLwiPU4gShxJMXo=; b=sgBbZc3F5z8aLT3kVuawRnzbVS7ko0oi8xab9KNduGf/uTHk8y22tu6zWo0uv81usw gGWphI8HAMtNKuUXnHLX7tvqquaWgWlA7pPGAZepTdebdYsuowqIuqYP9JzU60EZ/eCJ 5a/N3leSJ6nFSAVBhO/Z0XxmRPUZ/lSrMGLInugEWtFp+mylV4/Wox5wexmZs4ajQXMm 0Uco2Zgy9YmKsvcketlK45b3IMPPOlzPG1qohI2vB2gZtF7om2druMxGqFJHoUSPiTWM TbtHIkA95AL3mPVgqFFGsfiKOOdcw0heScgRVCjkXjemFgBPS0d+RGCpWQrysOS7DFvJ lq4w== vK4gqy6sTn6Vfg0W4WCFesM8TXm4v98Y12LjY8uT1RDC Fri, 10 Apr 2020 12:25:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 15:25:20 -0400 To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: [Shop-talk] Professional Shop Question From: Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8875245865531524481== --00000000000054013005a2f4b2de Not sure if this is the place for this...but I have a professional shop question... Beginning in November, I will be responsible for stocking tools for a new maintenance crew for 200,000 square feet of new laboratory and office buildings. We have a little bit of everything you'd expect to find in a large commercial building: chillers, boilers, pumps, water loops, miles and miles of conduit, acres of LED lighting, ducts, plumbing of all sorts... I have a sort of list I'm putting together, but I've been trying to find where someone has already done the work for me. We are more or less starting from scratch. Anyone know of a good resource for a list like that? Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. --00000000000054013005a2f4b2de Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Not sure if this is the place for this...but I have a prof= essional=C2=A0shop question...

Beginning in November, I = will be responsible=C2=A0for stocking tools for a new maintenance crew for = 200,000 square feet of new laboratory and office buildings. We have=C2=A0 a= little bit of everything you'd expect to find in a large commercial bu= ilding:=C2=A0 chillers, boilers, pumps, water loops, miles and miles of con= duit, acres of LED lighting, ducts, plumbing of all sorts...=C2=A0 I have a= sort of list I'm putting together, but I've been trying=C2=A0to fi= nd where someone has already done the work for me.=C2=A0 We are more or les= s starting from scratch.

Anyone know of a good res= ource for a list like that?

Jeff Scarbrough
<= div>Corrosion Acres, Ga.
--00000000000054013005a2f4b2de-- --===============8875245865531524481== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8875245865531524481==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 10 13:57:49 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49A9EA0DC8 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 13:57:49 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qk1-f178.google.com (unknown [209.85.222.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E353A0DA0 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 13:57:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-qk1-f178.google.com with SMTP id b62so3307695qkf.6 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 12:57:42 -0700 (PDT) h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=03etl7RFmptsyghoP++nNzw6MUuv1uqPJEpOgQ5/G7c=; b=cQtVTzC7GIaFds8c9VgIwpvYjaadCA/UnIuDNC8SsCLFxYsSqKtx6HPJ0SsNYe8ZgC oYgKA16tNmV+JnG118QZFj/DkQfM5/OlWHT6mg6oJM2O/0FmBd+iQjBRh5xJQXVQZwB3 xAnQLEv7kuVsOeLvCCI6n7cMKqPXCXM5QrC5Z1uaMNVBf22KGOqJ6KeUNYuTYoUFzLFe p3dAFnr/iqK6+BgXhRS+xfmeBOL1er3szJJPCTJ+MSMMnWbtdeIdsVRNhv6OFrfHjGn4 lJtqPn/TtAx13k366IUaIF+dctVltEJQw9fQsHV2/UmQNMraVn5cXV8cwEM0F6ZsgHYb GrVA== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=03etl7RFmptsyghoP++nNzw6MUuv1uqPJEpOgQ5/G7c=; b=j871LSWP4BuTD+GriV7HzRQUxTV59JI8Dkul9UDhMV4uabENUtPBx9TvakQBbYQyJN +kkFuZk2OSZmAIDJe1tz3ovaTMhCbKGIJFHPFlP+fr+iEvSu+hoNKaBxqC3Lpt+GSVyI Hq9MegxZWetlaBFBl+CeGsfQjG9pwIzP+HeG+q/lTEZBNSBv55Mw96GIy09J92ZKZxIa 3aIuCY8U16CRvzzqoHB8lOhcLRsyAncMqIyivYd8+jnQLz6eIWW42yYY15ZpT0M60loE 7vmslL0dkt9ktfuKuGTisko9J24KpLFmTtLlpJ0JZaR8kMfRGJY5GQs04dHL7z12UBgZ QWUg== R6qYxfopZ1jR3koinS5mNZJ8gFEi Fri, 10 Apr 2020 12:57:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hpenvy2 (c-76-112-183-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net. [76.112.183.50]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t49sm187306qtb.39.2020.04.10.12.57.40 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 10 Apr 2020 12:57:40 -0700 (PDT) To: References: Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 15:57:33 -0400 Thread-Index: AQIp2EnBqIiXuvstKj1hNUfreYHKa6fLMZcw Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Professional Shop Question From: Al Fuller via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============7199340678380419406== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0235_01D60F50.C0079110" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0235_01D60F50.C0079110 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jeff:=20 =20 Most of my clients use some kind of CMMS =E2=80=93 computerized = maintenance management system =E2=80=93 to help manage the actual work, = work orders and labor. I your employer uses one, it likely has a tool = inventory module included or optional. That would facilitate documenting = what tools are available, location, calibration due dates, assigned = owner/user, etc. =20 If not, I would look for some kind of tool inventory database to use. I = don=E2=80=99t happen to know of one, though. =20 P.S.: I, like most of us on this list SHOULD have an inventory of my = tools so if I ever need to make an insurance claim, there is a record of = what was there before the loss=E2=80=A6.. In other words, I you or = someone else on the list comes up with an open-source or cheap solution, = we can all benefit!=20 =20 ---------------- All the best, =20 Al Fuller =20 From: Shop-talk On Behalf Of Jeff = Scarbrough via Shop-talk Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 3:25 PM To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Professional Shop Question =20 Not sure if this is the place for this...but I have a professional shop = question... =20 Beginning in November, I will be responsible for stocking tools for a = new maintenance crew for 200,000 square feet of new laboratory and = office buildings. We have a little bit of everything you'd expect to = find in a large commercial building: chillers, boilers, pumps, water = loops, miles and miles of conduit, acres of LED lighting, ducts, = plumbing of all sorts... I have a sort of list I'm putting together, = but I've been trying to find where someone has already done the work for = me. We are more or less starting from scratch. =20 Anyone know of a good resource for a list like that? =20 Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. ------=_NextPart_000_0235_01D60F50.C0079110 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jeff:

 

Most of my = clients use some kind of CMMS =E2=80=93 computerized maintenance = management system =E2=80=93 to help manage the actual work, work orders = and labor. I your employer uses one, it likely has a tool inventory = module included or optional. That would facilitate documenting what = tools are available, location, calibration due dates, assigned = owner/user, etc.

 

If not, I = would look for some kind of tool inventory database to use. I = don=E2=80=99t happen to know of one, though.

 

P.S.: I, = like most of us on this list SHOULD have an inventory of my tools so if = I ever need to make an insurance claim, there is a record of what was = there before the loss=E2=80=A6.. In other words, I you or someone else = on the list comes up with an open-source or cheap solution, we can all = benefit!

 

----------------

All the best,

 

Al = Fuller

 

From: Shop-talk = <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Jeff = Scarbrough via Shop-talk
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 3:25 = PM
To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: [Shop-talk] = Professional Shop Question

 

Not = sure if this is the place for this...but I have a professional shop = question...

 

Beginning in November, I will be responsible for = stocking tools for a new maintenance crew for 200,000 square feet of new = laboratory and office buildings. We have  a little bit of = everything you'd expect to find in a large commercial building:  = chillers, boilers, pumps, water loops, miles and miles of conduit, acres = of LED lighting, ducts, plumbing of all sorts...  I have a sort of = list I'm putting together, but I've been trying to find where = someone has already done the work for me.  We are more or less = starting from scratch.

 

Anyone know of a good resource for a list like = that?

 

Jeff Scarbrough

Corrosion Acres, = Ga.

------=_NextPart_000_0235_01D60F50.C0079110-- --===============7199340678380419406== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7199340678380419406==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 10 15:19:18 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D23FA0E5B for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 15:19:18 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from Deep13.mail.Megageek.com (unknown [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEB73A0E2B for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 15:19:10 -0600 (MDT) References: <023401d60f72$47193110$d54b9330$@gmail.com> To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net type=4; name=$KeepSent Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 17:19:10 -0400 04/10/2020 05:19:10 PM, Serialize complete at 04/10/2020 05:19:10 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Professional Shop Question- I'll make one From: eric--- via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============7616337969833358862== This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 00751E0885258546_= Al writes, > In other words, I you or someone else on the list comes up with an open-source or cheap solution, we can all benefit! OK, I'll be happy to make one for free for anyone to use. If you remember, a while back, I offered to make a 'car maintenance log' for anyone here that wanted it. While no one bit, I did make it, I called it "BOLTRAK" You put in your cars, part numbers for oil filters, oil weight and capacities, etc. Then you add a record each time you work on that vehicle. It can record time and money spent, vehicle miles the work was performed at, etc. I'm sure it can use some polish. It's not perfect, since I'm the only one using it, but I like it. NOTE- Like me, none of my software is pretty. It's 'brutish' at best, but, also like me, it gets the job done. If there really is an interest, I'll be happy to make a web based tool inventory application. A big advantage would be that it would be 100% off site (your site) so if the unthinkable happened, the data is safe. (of course, I can email you an excel spreadsheet anytime you want.) So, just email me the features you think are important, and I'll put it together if there is enough interest. What I think a record would need... -Tool -Brand -Date purchased -Amount -Where purchased (is that worth having?) -Photo? -Copy of receipt? -Where stored? I could also do an import if you have a spreadsheet already, just send it to me and I can import it into your tool vault. I could also build in an 'wife total.' Meaning that you would click on a total money spent button, but it would only show you a predefined percentage of the actual value that you set. IE, you set a 50% value. Anytime you hit the 'total spent' button, it would only show you 50% of the value. This would be to prevent domestic violences of course! 8>) Any other ideas? Again, it would be web based (not platform dependant) and 100% free all the time. "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt? --=_alternative 00751E0885258546_= Al writes,

> In other words, I you or someone else on the list comes up with an open-source or cheap solution, we can all benefit!

OK, I'll be happy to make one for free for anyone to use.  If you remember, a while back, I offered to make a 'car maintenance log' for anyone here that wanted it.  While no one bit, I did make it, I called it "BOLTRAK"
You put in your cars, part numbers for oil filters, oil weight and capacities, etc.  Then you add a record each time you work on that vehicle.  It can record time and money spent, vehicle miles the work was performed at, etc.
I'm sure it can use some polish. It's not perfect, since I'm the only one using it, but I like it.
NOTE- Like me, none of my software is pretty.  It's 'brutish' at best, but, also like me, it gets the job done.

If there really is an interest, I'll be happy to make a web based tool inventory application.  A big advantage would be that it would be 100% off site (your site) so if the unthinkable happened, the data is safe. (of course, I can email you an excel spreadsheet anytime you want.)
So, just email me the features you think are important, and I'll put it together if there is enough interest.

What I think a record would need...
-Tool
-Brand
-Date purchased
-Amount
-Where purchased (is that worth having?)
-Photo?
-Copy of receipt?
-Where stored?

I could also do an import if you have a spreadsheet already, just send it to me and I can import it into your tool vault.

I could also build in an 'wife total.'  Meaning that you would click on a total money spent button, but it would only show you a predefined percentage of the actual value that you set.  IE, you set a 50% value.  Anytime you hit the 'total spent' button, it would only show you 50% of the value. This would be to prevent domestic violences of course!  8>)

Any other ideas?

Again, it would be web based (not platform dependant) and 100% free all the time.



"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John Galt? --=_alternative 00751E0885258546_=-- --===============7616337969833358862== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7616337969833358862==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 10 18:36:19 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E0E9A10BA for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 18:36:19 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-il1-f175.google.com (unknown [209.85.166.175]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CD13A109E for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 18:36:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-il1-f175.google.com with SMTP id i2so2489190ils.12 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 17:36:11 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=vRxui5wz69YDjfgg3HNpmZ/4Bu2qm8nsIkiukP4cZTk=; b=LOd10nkHSljDlt/NW+eXoUPadIW+vyowbT/FpcbDgL9enNBBsJE2EtRZoYnD7/pEbz dcbS7cNyi3ymGemPt13tBR/epLnfXy+2DQAcSNx+v0U7kpwO9+fUzlVe5r2i6mM13cFX jIrVyr599CsgcVZzpDRNEHsY5JQOYpdujmRrabVd2nAVnfjZFnvoRnX08He2GIq0gwMl 3mJDARKYQJiAe4yXMq0+FYxbjA8SIWZI9PTHF9ehwmNWvzr3uRxILyot4DQUmRH73vak Xxa0rWQDjWbfGddblXI9762WKEGfTfMEbcMP2A4ePAEPPp4E73ta5RwelMiD8EBAWjAK 87pA== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=vRxui5wz69YDjfgg3HNpmZ/4Bu2qm8nsIkiukP4cZTk=; b=nqiehAGBwoSTUv5N9vAuIJdsGoZMaNcKbu2p7887PQE0mPd9kBmY9o7chjjo5anM6B RmnVh/AHe6k6xmnH63adfFJPMhA1fQ12Djd2dZW8ocnc7itcHCwATJJKsFe0K77gz11z C+OPGTaZPesBRmeqSa0Cgiyvo9pbY0RinyrVLjC/SQqdOSGPOKcY5iFDQxrdeJPp2Mf+ +OK7Ic50DeluyT50WbZUYo/PHyLke3OTCR2ET1EHZMVPsJGl3n2DZhXQc0BENy5fsqos 7Qpvx26RrNRxjSNRYvZxVA/jBTan/2LzcjXVEIOe6XkwKeYU0p9VV2kRwV0jPh2q5nYg AF0g== nBoS3gOo10y8rO0397+5fFPhu6TIWIM7m3IjY+kbQksu Fri, 10 Apr 2020 17:36:10 -0700 (PDT) References: <023401d60f72$47193110$d54b9330$@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 20:35:59 -0400 To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Professional Shop Question- I'll make one From: Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0041683454884477996== --00000000000054387305a2f909b4 > -Where purchased (is that worth having?) Very helpful, if you want to buy another one. On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 5:19 PM eric--- via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > Al writes, > > > In other words, I you or someone else on the list comes up with an > open-source or cheap solution, we can all benefit! > > OK, I'll be happy to make one for free for anyone to use. If you > remember, a while back, I offered to make a 'car maintenance log' for > anyone here that wanted it. While no one bit, I did make it, I called it > "BOLTRAK" > You put in your cars, part numbers for oil filters, oil weight and > capacities, etc. Then you add a record each time you work on that > vehicle. It can record time and money spent, vehicle miles the work was > performed at, etc. > I'm sure it can use some polish. It's not perfect, since I'm the only one > using it, but I like it. > NOTE- Like me, none of my software is pretty. It's 'brutish' at best, > but, also like me, it gets the job done. > > If there really is an interest, I'll be happy to make a web based tool > inventory application. A big advantage would be that it would be 100% off > site (your site) so if the unthinkable happened, the data is safe. (of > course, I can email you an excel spreadsheet anytime you want.) > So, just email me the features you think are important, and I'll put it > together if there is enough interest. > > What I think a record would need... > -Tool > -Brand > -Date purchased > -Amount > -Where purchased (is that worth having?) > -Photo? > -Copy of receipt? > -Where stored? > > I could also do an import if you have a spreadsheet already, just send it > to me and I can import it into your tool vault. > > I could also build in an 'wife total.' Meaning that you would click on a > total money spent button, but it would only show you a predefined > percentage of the actual value that you set. IE, you set a 50% value. > Anytime you hit the 'total spent' button, it would only show you 50% of the > value. This would be to prevent domestic violences of course! 8>) > > Any other ideas? > > Again, it would be web based (not platform dependant) and 100% free all > the time. > > > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > -Who is John Galt? _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com > > --00000000000054387305a2f909b4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> -Where purchased (is that worth having?)=C2=A0 =C2=A0

<= /div>
Very helpful, if you want to buy another one.



On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 5:19 PM eric--- via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote= :
Al writes,

> In other words, I you or someone else on the list comes up with an open-sou= rce or cheap solution, we can all benefit!

OK, I'll be h= appy to make one for free for anyone to use.=C2=A0 If you remember, a while back, I offered to make a 'car maintenance log' for anyone here tha= t wanted it.=C2=A0 While no one bit, I did make it, I called it "BOLTRAK"<= /span>
You put in your cars, part numbers for oil filters, oil weight and capacities, etc.=C2=A0 T= hen you add a record each time you work on that vehicle.=C2=A0 It can record time and money spent, vehicle miles the work was performed at, etc.
I'm sure it c= an use some polish. It's not perfect, since I'm the only one using it,= but I like it.
NOTE- Like me, none of my software is pretty.=C2=A0 It's 'brutish' at best, bu= t, also like me, it gets the job done.

If there really is an interest, I'll be happy to make a web based tool inventory applic= ation. =C2=A0A big advantage would be that it would be 100% off site (your site) so if the unthinkable happened, the data is safe. (of course, I can email you an excel spreadsheet anytime you want.)
So, just email me the features you think are important, and I'll put it together if th= ere is enough interest.

What I think a record would need...
-Tool
-Brand
-Date purchased
-Amount
-Where purchased (is that worth having?)
-Photo?
-Copy of receipt?=
-Where stored?

I could also do an import if you have a spreadsheet already, just send it to me and I can import it into your tool vault.

I could also buil= d in an 'wife total.' =C2=A0Meaning that you would click on a total m= oney spent button, but it would only show you a predefined percentage of the actual value that you set.=C2=A0 IE, you set a 50% value.=C2=A0 Anytime you hit the 'total spent' button, it would only show you 50% of the= value. This would be to prevent domestic violences of course! =C2=A08>)

Any other ideas?<= /span>

Again, it would be web based (not platform dependant) and 100% free all the time.



"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a ratio= nal being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John Galt? _______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/fishplate@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.= team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com

--00000000000054387305a2f909b4-- --===============0041683454884477996== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0041683454884477996==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 11 07:04:17 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6761EA14EC for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 07:04:17 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from bradakis.com (unknown [50.198.190.18]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 114AEA14B4 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 07:04:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bradakis.com (bradakis.com [50.198.190.18]) by bradakis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 048AD1C0202 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 07:04:12 -0600 (MDT) To: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 07:04:11 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 Content-Language: en-US Subject: [Shop-talk] Birthday From: Mark J Bradakis via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net QXByaWwgMTF0aC7CoCBBcyBtYW55IG9mIHlvdSBrbm93LCB0aGUgZG9tYWluIHRlYW0ubmV0IHdh cyBvZmZpY2lhbGx5IApyZWdpc3RlcmVkIG9uIEFwcmlsIDExLCAxOTkxLCBieSB0aGUgbGF0ZSBC aWxsIENhbG9jY2lhLsKgIEkgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIAptYW5hZ2luZyB0aGUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0cyBv biBhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldCBzaW5jZSB0aGVuLCBhY3R1YWxseSBmb3IgYSAKd2hpbGUgYmVmb3Jl IHRoYXQuwqAgSSB0b29rIG92ZXLCoCBmcm9tIEppbSBNdWxsZXIsIHdobyB0b29rIG92ZXIgZnJv bSAKRGFsZSBDb29rLCBhbmQgSSB3aXNoIEkgaGFkIGFyY2hpdmVzIG9mIHRob3NlIGZpcnN0IGZl dyB5ZWFycy7CoCBBY3R1YWxseSAKSSBtYXkgaGF2ZSBzb21lIGluIG15IG9mZmljZSwgb24gMS80 IGluY2ggdGFwZSBjYXNzZXR0ZXMuwqAgRXZlcnkgbm93IGFuZCAKdGhlbiBJIGNvbnNpZGVyIHRy eWluZyB0byByZXZpdmUgc29tZSBvZiB0aGUgb2xkIEhQLVVYIGJveGVzIEkgaGF2ZSB0byAKc2Vl IGlmIEkgY2FuIHN0aWxsIHJlYWQgYW55IG9mIHRob3NlIHRhcGVzLsKgIE1heWJlIHNvbWVkYXku CgpBbnl3YXksIGluIHRoZSBiZWdpbm5pbmcgSSB3YXMgcm91dGluZyBldmVyeXRoaW5nIHRocm91 Z2ggdGhlIHNlcnZlcnMgYXQgCnRoZSBVbml2ZXJzaXR5IG9mIFV0YWggQ29tcHV0ZXIgU2NpZW5j ZSBEZXBhcnRtZW50LCB3aGVyZSBJIHdhcyAKZW1wbG95ZWQuwqAgV2hlbiBteSBmZWxsb3cgc3lz IGFkbWlucyBzdGFydGVkIG5vdGljaW5nIGp1c3QgaG93IG11Y2ggCm5ldHdvcmsgdHJhZmZpYyB0 aGVyZSB3YXMgb24gYSBjZXJ0YWluIGJveCwgbXkgYm9zcyBzdHJvbmdseSBzdWdnZXN0ZWQgSSAK bWFrZSBvdGhlciBhcnJhbmdlbWVudHMuwqAgU28gSSB3ZW50IGFib3V0IGdldHRpbmcgYSBuZXR3 b3JrIGNvbm5lY3Rpb24gCmF0IGhvbWUuwqAgQmFjayB0aGVuLCBpdCB3YXMgbm90IHRoYXQgZWFz eSwgb3IgY2hlYXAuwqAgQW5kIGFzIEkgcmVjYWxsLCAKdGhlIGZpcnN0IGRlZGljYXRlZCBUZWFt IE5ldCBzZXJ2ZXIgd2FzIGFuIEhQIGJveCB3aXRoIG9uZSBvZiB0aGUgZmlyc3QgCjEwMCsgbWVn YWhlcnR6IENQVXMsIGFuZCBldmVuIHdpdGggYSBkZWFsIHRocm91Z2ggSFAsIHdobyB3b3JrZWQg Y2xvc2VseSAKd2l0aCB0aGUgVSBpbiB0aG9zZSBkYXlzIHRoZSBzeXN0ZW0gc2V0IG1lIGJhY2sg YWJvdXQgJDIsNTAwLsKgIEhhcmR3YXJlIApoYXMgaW1wcm92ZWQgc2luY2UgdGhlbi7CoCBBbmQg dGhhdCBtb25leSBkaWRuJ3QgYWxsIGNvbWUgb3V0IG9mIG15IApwb2NrZXQsIEkgaW5pdGlhdGVk IGEgZnVuZCBkcml2ZSBhbW9uZyB0aGUgbGlzdCBtZW1iZXJzIGFuZCBnb3QgYSBncmVhdCAKcmVz cG9uc2UuwqAgQmFjayB0aGVuIGl0IHdhcyBhbGwgY2hlY2tzIGluIHRoZSBtYWlsLCBhbmQgSSBt YWlsZWQgYSB0aGFuayAKeW91IHBvc3RjYXJkIHRvIGV2ZXJ5IGNvbnRyaWJ1dG9yLCBvciBhdCBs ZWFzdCBtb3N0IG9mIHRoZW0sIG5vIGRvdWJ0IEkgCm1pc3NlZCBhIGZldy7CoCBBbmQgZm9yIHNv bWUgdGltZSB0aGVyZSB3YXMgYW4gYW5udWFsIGZ1bmQgZHJpdmUgdG8gY292ZXIgCnRoZSByYXRo ZXIgaGlnaCBjb3N0IG9mIGhhdmluZyBzdWZmaWNpZW50IGJhbmR3aWR0aCBmcm9tIG15IGhvdXNl LgoKU28gaGVyZSBpdCBpcyAyOSBhbmQganVzdCBldmVyeWJvZHkgaGFzIGZhc3QgbmV0d29yayBh dmFpbGFibGUgdG8gCnRoZW0uwqDCoCBJIGRyb3BwZWQgdGhlIGZ1bmQgZHJpdmVzIHNvbWUgeWVh cnMgYmFjaywgdGhvdWdoIGZvbGtzIGRvIApjb250aW51ZSB0byBjb250cmlidXRlIHRvIHRoZSBj YXVzZS7CoCBOb3cgYSBmZXcgY2xpY2tzIGluIFBheXBhbCBjYW4gCnRha2UgY2FyZSBvZiBpdCwg dGhvdWdoIHNvbWUgc3RpbGwgcHJlZmVyIHRvIHNlbmQgY2hlY2tzLiBZZXAsIHRoaW5ncyAKYXJl IGRpZmZlcmVudCBub3cuwqAgQW5kIHdpdGggdGhlIENvdmlkLTE5IHBhbmRlbWljLCBhIExPVCBk aWZmZXJlbnQuwqAgCkJ1dCB0aGUgVGVhbSBOZXQgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0cyBhcmUgc3RpbGwgY2h1 Z2dpbmcgYWxvbmcsIHByb3ZpZGluZyB0aG9zZSAKc3BlbmRpbmcgbW9yZSB0aW1lIGF0IGhvbWUg YSBiaXQgb2YgZGlzdHJhY3Rpb24sIGVudGVydGFpbm1lbnQgb3IgCmVkdWNhdGlvbiBhcyB3ZSBr ZWVwIG91ciBiZWxvdmVkIHZlaGljbGVzIHJvbGxpbmcgYWxvbmcgdGhlIHJvYWRzLgoKSSBwbGFu IHRvIGtlZXAgaXQgZ29pbmcgYXMgbG9uZyBhcyBJIGNhbiwgd2hvIGtub3dzIGhvdyBtYW55IHll YXJzIEkgCmhhdmUgbGVmdC7CoCBBcHJpbCAxMXRoIGlzIGFsc28gbXkgYmlydGhkYXksIDY2IHRo aXMgeWVhciwgYW5kIEkgCmNlcnRhaW5seSB3b24ndCBsaXZlIGZvcmV2ZXIuwqAgQW5kIEkgZmVh ciB0aGF0IHdoZW4gSSBkaWUsIFRlYW0gTmV0IHdpbGwgCmRpZS7CoCBTaWdoLgoKQnV0IGZvciBu b3csIGVuam95IGFuZCBzdGF5IGhlYWx0aHkuCgptamIuCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwoKU2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0CkRvbmF0 ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9kb25hdGUuaHRtbApTdWdnZXN0ZWQgYW5udWFsIGRvbmF0 aW9uICAkMTIuOTYKQXJjaGl2ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9waXBlcm1haWwvc2hvcC10 YWxrIGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9hcmNoaXZlCgpVbnN1YnNjcmliZS9NYW5hZ2U6IGh0 dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9tYWlsbWFuL29wdGlvbnMvc2hvcC10YWxrL21oYXJjQGF1dG94 LnRlYW0ubmV0Cgo= From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 11 07:14:02 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBEDDA15D1 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 07:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from Deep13.mail.Megageek.com (unknown [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDEF0A14BF for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 07:13:59 -0600 (MDT) References: <23f61762-e022-ba50-c392-515c5af3de90@bradakis.com> To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net type=4; name=$KeepSent Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 09:13:58 -0400 04/11/2020 09:14:00 AM, Serialize complete at 04/11/2020 09:14:00 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Birthday From: eric--- via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============5214929275467320499== This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0048B1BE85258547_= Mjb, HAPPY B'DAY! Don't fear, 66 is the new 46! You still got lots of life in you. And I'm sure you'll need to find more projects to work on as you get more free time. But if that doesn't cheer you up, at least you share a b'day with Steven Seagal (but he is younger.) 8>) Have a great one! Eric P "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt? --=_alternative 0048B1BE85258547_= Mjb,

HAPPY B'DAY!

Don't fear, 66 is the new 46!  You still got lots of life in you.  And I'm sure you'll need to find more projects to work on as you get more free time.

But if that doesn't cheer you up, at least you share a b'day with Steven Seagal (but he is younger.)  8>)

Have a great one!

Eric P


"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John Galt? --=_alternative 0048B1BE85258547_=-- --===============5214929275467320499== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============5214929275467320499==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 11 07:23:39 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98C96A1505 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 07:23:39 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from ms11p00im-qufo17281301.me.com (unknown [17.58.38.50]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F20B2A143F for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 07:23:34 -0600 (MDT) s=1a1hai; t=1586611412; bh=oitnoIbdnTsgNlHy2y39Se4x8FC3Wr2thfAiaqSb6K8=; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=yX0Tm2NqqDO0fbOgeTBg+6J9IF0mbIasrtppZUjL5qOK4xOH0ftXFQWcpN+GxABdG xEqD9yf+lJ23y9LO2y8ftavXU+1Q6gUOCXocko1T/JE2OpD0H0g2eqnbdW/pnNbJH3 i9fCqdFQKoSQVMCSqY++TMV1TUoBOUUdFaU6nucKZTgMvpH/sUiyIBIilpHsUNLZmC ls08XGzwQuXUJh5d7e5knRBgmUdjlKaf2mwpkV4d7HbGQyfY2tPIb5PXRtPFSfYhIN Gv8mbzKRWmKmTHQU8IwQ7RoUJsHnMC9VS9yrfIPFbv4niHg+8jI3ba84djJeWT7EQp Hxdt1ge52jDJA== Received: from [192.168.88.55] (unknown [199.38.189.253]) by ms11p00im-qufo17281301.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3C021AC0328; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 13:23:32 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 08:23:29 -0500 References: <23f61762-e022-ba50-c392-515c5af3de90@bradakis.com> To: Mark J Bradakis definitions=2020-04-11_04:2020-04-09, 2020-04-11 signatures=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-2002250000 definitions=main-2004110127 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Birthday From: Pat Horne via Shop-talk Cc: 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YW4vb3B0aW9ucy9zaG9wLXRhbGsvbWhhcmNAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQKCg== From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 11 11:02:03 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38B4DA1813 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 11:02:03 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-po-04v.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.114.154.163]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4017BA0C4E for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 11:01:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-po-18v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.242]) by resqmta-po-04v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id NIk7jSJmy9m4oNJVUjsMCi; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 17:01:24 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1586624484; bh=+bJghEz+2lcHlmIaiD26CFhE+/0dfnStczkHIlPVkhA=; h=Received:Received:From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Date: Subject:To; b=bqS+I1Rm6f6ti8Iwwyg9/gi4Cf6lb4omM8Qvyv6Duk++tyQdrqPNoW5B155zGuHp3 EZo39DlZmvwBQz2LMviWdE6NeWptCsyiUF/7e+QAK6CZpsQKhZ2wSMAkoU1hUS10R2 yDFakwhHiBbPRfBdrzygGLnHSQpN+Zo2FfixzaQRSaeQFv9yvP0GCkXZ68BSOYUBGM MLEc6srUHIBvWzU6Q/PZEXW8yTO5wqGzxZg2gv/9MR0aUuVsSojjRb80XjxFbI1nKy nXqdXRGdDEoX/hUoqby8vjtMrAP/F6yB3T1wbGqOY6l0AM83c8VwhL6ji/DVdMeYlV V1sBKblhA6rkw== Received: from [IPv6:2601:1c2:1600:a170:81c4:b22:8ed1:dc3e] ([IPv6:2601:1c2:1600:a170:81c4:b22:8ed1:dc3e]) by resomta-po-18v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id NJVTjRXlrB8LeNJVTjcyr5; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 17:01:24 +0000 Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 10:01:22 -0700 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <023401d60f72$47193110$d54b9330$@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Professional Shop Question From: brianlpro via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============5635053881757438760== boundary="Apple-Mail=_58AE0532-2F55-4C3A-8354-0AD98375347A" --Apple-Mail=_58AE0532-2F55-4C3A-8354-0AD98375347A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 Many years ago our insurance agent asked us to take photos of our stuff. = Fairly easy to do if it=E2=80=99s acceptable and motivation for those of = us who don=E2=80=99t always have them stored in an orderly fashion. Brian Kennedy My wife thinks we have too many old cars, except of her Model A > On Apr 10, 2020, at 12:57 PM, Al Fuller via Shop-talk = wrote: >=20 > Jeff:=20 > =20 > Most of my clients use some kind of CMMS =E2=80=93 computerized = maintenance management system =E2=80=93 to help manage the actual work, = work orders and labor. I your employer uses one, it likely has a tool = inventory module included or optional. That would facilitate documenting = what tools are available, location, calibration due dates, assigned = owner/user, etc. > =20 > If not, I would look for some kind of tool inventory database to use. = I don=E2=80=99t happen to know of one, though. > =20 > P.S.: I, like most of us on this list SHOULD have an inventory of my = tools so if I ever need to make an insurance claim, there is a record of = what was there before the loss=E2=80=A6.. In other words, I you or = someone else on the list comes up with an open-source or cheap solution, = we can all benefit!=20 > =20 > ---------------- > All the best, > =20 > Al Fuller > =20 > From: Shop-talk Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 3:25 PM > Subject: [Shop-talk] Professional Shop Question > =20 > Not sure if this is the place for this...but I have a professional = shop question... > =20 > Beginning in November, I will be responsible for stocking tools for a = new maintenance crew for 200,000 square feet of new laboratory and = office buildings. We have a little bit of everything you'd expect to = find in a large commercial building: chillers, boilers, pumps, water = loops, miles and miles of conduit, acres of LED lighting, ducts, = plumbing of all sorts... I have a sort of list I'm putting together, = but I've been trying to find where someone has already done the work for = me. We are more or less starting from scratch. > =20 > Anyone know of a good resource for a list like that? > =20 > Jeff Scarbrough > Corrosion Acres, Ga. --Apple-Mail=_58AE0532-2F55-4C3A-8354-0AD98375347A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 Many = years ago our insurance agent asked us to take photos of our stuff. = Fairly easy to do if it=E2=80=99s acceptable and motivation for those of = us who don=E2=80=99t always have them stored in an orderly fashion.
Brian Kennedy
My wife thinks we have too = many old cars, except of her Model A




On Apr 10, 2020, at 12:57 PM, Al Fuller via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:

Jeff: 
 
Most of = my clients use some kind of CMMS =E2=80=93 computerized maintenance = management system =E2=80=93 to help manage the actual work, work orders = and labor. I your employer uses one, it likely has a tool inventory = module included or optional. That would facilitate documenting what = tools are available, location, calibration due dates, assigned = owner/user, etc.
 
If not, I would look for some kind of tool inventory database = to use. I don=E2=80=99t happen to know of one, though.
 
P.S.: I, = like most of us on this list SHOULD have an inventory of my tools so if = I ever need to make an insurance claim, there is a record of what was = there before the loss=E2=80=A6.. In other words, I you or someone else = on the list comes up with an open-source or cheap solution, we can all = benefit! 
 
----------------
All the best,
 
Al = Fuller
 
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf = Of Jeff Scarbrough = via Shop-talk
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 3:25 = PM
To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: [Shop-talk] Professional = Shop Question
 
Not sure if this is the place for = this...but I have a professional shop question...
 
Beginning in November, I will be = responsible for stocking tools for a new maintenance crew for = 200,000 square feet of new laboratory and office buildings. We = have  a little bit of everything you'd expect to find in a large = commercial building:  chillers, boilers, pumps, water loops, miles = and miles of conduit, acres of LED lighting, ducts, plumbing of all = sorts...  I have a sort of list I'm putting together, but I've been = trying to find where someone has already done the work for = me.  We are more or less starting from scratch.
 
Anyone know of a good resource for a = list like that?
 
Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, = Ga.
= --Apple-Mail=_58AE0532-2F55-4C3A-8354-0AD98375347A-- --===============5635053881757438760== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============5635053881757438760==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 11 12:14:25 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5ADCA14A3 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 12:14:25 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from Deep13.mail.Megageek.com (unknown [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2A5AA0EFC for ; Sat, 11 Apr 2020 12:14:20 -0600 (MDT) References: <023401d60f72$47193110$d54b9330$@gmail.com> To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net type=4; name=$KeepSent Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 14:14:16 -0400 04/11/2020 02:14:20 PM, Serialize complete at 04/11/2020 02:14:20 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Professional Shop Question From: eric--- via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============0227361189426248771== This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 00642FD285258547_= Brian writes... >Many years ago our insurance agent asked us to take photos of our stuff. That is what I currently do with a database as well. But I'll build it out for others if they would want it. "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt? --=_alternative 00642FD285258547_= Brian writes...
>Many years ago our insurance agent asked us to take photos of our stuff.


That is what I currently do with a database as well.  But I'll build it out for others if they would want it.


"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John Galt? --=_alternative 00642FD285258547_=-- --===============0227361189426248771== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0227361189426248771==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 13 15:49:41 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51FCEA1751 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:49:41 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qt1-f175.google.com (unknown [209.85.160.175]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2962AA0993 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:49:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-qt1-f175.google.com with SMTP id c16so2763590qtv.1 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 14:49:33 -0700 (PDT) h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=emUN83e7U3jjhbmrOzO55Qdyw4J2QdAKKTFd39Zr3Yo=; b=gJTvNjbjgUrsSS7cu5yIF4ecsSuV6N4K+g64datnFswK9CxYiJYvgnYCEPmHFzn/ZY UFjLY0tqchVRN8nHdIFVEvQuJhZOYr6fM63wLJkKaRODHqI9bz+GIU+glEbFzkQ4Svfe /mMCsiijjC36YmMD2HvGw0QVYn23VtM1RbbNdHk4XWm4yzbjYDlt+mf08GIB+ETrTlQe zPXVgTuhUH537WaK/83/dA1mmEzbvBmMaEZZuTwiyp9wTOPa8lp//DPE4bek1jTCk5wU 9a0e5z55s66bd4+pXYGN0qUo1R5u08F16WuNW02dbfnY9TXoAOOOAVQdToJrL0WekVhb 9xgw== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=emUN83e7U3jjhbmrOzO55Qdyw4J2QdAKKTFd39Zr3Yo=; b=kXZ93aV6L9mHOTPs9Yym6zRZUBz4KrpuAZgEXfT7o77ZMqPiT/HUO52+uEGxJ94235 AZi+Kcsvl2vPhe+wAHgh+LHqtVd/iC+82XM9wUzG9eZh0yHCgxTtlkRdO6RYJD2Q/v9V sTwutfANeJhBqFhxZxsyfVuqmsZaS5XPYMUGlJ9OpnER6AQzrFIfAkrAFeNiqpVR9qg/ 0JUWr0t6F/AMM+hAebbDm/Df2bxzokWmBTIU0ItErGQvUJT41nTruYNVS1RURVrXfWwJ fjZsRlYz7BmS3x7G0rksaKZa5bIFLqUb1XRqPvvyNVj3asDnE+CJVLNVU88M1Hwlogi0 M+hw== KkYeEmVt265YGkmIuHQ9pAkxo4Yw Mon, 13 Apr 2020 14:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hpenvy2 (c-76-112-183-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net. [76.112.183.50]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l22sm9384701qkj.120.2020.04.13.14.49.30 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 13 Apr 2020 14:49:31 -0700 (PDT) To: References: <023401d60f72$47193110$d54b9330$@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 17:49:27 -0400 Thread-Index: AQIp2EnBqIiXuvstKj1hNUfreYHKawD6gz0hAmmBNRyntOlH4A== Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Professional Shop Question- I'll make one From: Al Fuller via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============2514918081100553017== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01D611BB.E11A44C0" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01D611BB.E11A44C0 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric - thanks for the offer, and the effort. Is there any way a person would be able to self-host this? ---------------- All the best, Al Fuller From: eric@megageek.com Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 5:19 PM To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Cc: alfuller194@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Professional Shop Question- I'll make one Al writes, > In other words, I you or someone else on the list comes up with an open-source or cheap solution, we can all benefit! OK, I'll be happy to make one for free for anyone to use. If you remember, a while back, I offered to make a 'car maintenance log' for anyone here that wanted it. While no one bit, I did make it, I called it "BOLTRAK" You put in your cars, part numbers for oil filters, oil weight and capacities, etc. Then you add a record each time you work on that vehicle. It can record time and money spent, vehicle miles the work was performed at, etc. I'm sure it can use some polish. It's not perfect, since I'm the only one using it, but I like it. NOTE- Like me, none of my software is pretty. It's 'brutish' at best, but, also like me, it gets the job done. If there really is an interest, I'll be happy to make a web based tool inventory application. A big advantage would be that it would be 100% off site (your site) so if the unthinkable happened, the data is safe. (of course, I can email you an excel spreadsheet anytime you want.) So, just email me the features you think are important, and I'll put it together if there is enough interest. What I think a record would need... -Tool -Brand -Date purchased -Amount -Where purchased (is that worth having?) -Photo? -Copy of receipt? -Where stored? I could also do an import if you have a spreadsheet already, just send it to me and I can import it into your tool vault. I could also build in an 'wife total.' Meaning that you would click on a total money spent button, but it would only show you a predefined percentage of the actual value that you set. IE, you set a 50% value. Anytime you hit the 'total spent' button, it would only show you 50% of the value. This would be to prevent domestic violences of course! 8>) Any other ideas? Again, it would be web based (not platform dependant) and 100% free all the time. "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt? ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01D611BB.E11A44C0 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Eric – thanks for the offer, and the = effort.

 

Is there any way a person would be able to self-host = this?

 

----------------

All the best,

 

Al = Fuller

 

From: eric@megageek.com = <eric@megageek.com>
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 5:19 = PM
To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Cc: = alfuller194@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Professional = Shop Question- I'll make one

 

Al = writes,

> In = other words, I you or someone else on the list comes up with an = open-source or cheap solution, we can all benefit!

OK, I'll be = happy to make one for free for anyone to use.  If you remember, a = while back, I offered to make a 'car maintenance log' for anyone here = that wanted it.  While no one bit, I did make it, I called it = "BOLTRAK"
You put in = your cars, part numbers for oil filters, oil weight and capacities, etc. =  Then you add a record each time you work on that vehicle.  It = can record time and money spent, vehicle miles the work was performed = at, etc.
I'm sure it = can use some polish. It's not perfect, since I'm the only one using it, = but I like it.
NOTE- Like me, = none of my software is pretty.  It's 'brutish' at best, but, also = like me, it gets the job done.

If there = really is an interest, I'll be happy to make a web based tool inventory = application.  A big advantage would be that it would be 100% off = site (your site) so if the unthinkable happened, the data is safe. (of = course, I can email you an excel spreadsheet anytime you want.) =
So, = just email me the features you think are important, and I'll put it = together if there is enough interest.

What I think a = record would need...
-Tool =
-Brand =
-Date = purchased
-Amount =
-Where = purchased (is that worth having?)
-Photo? =
-Copy of = receipt?
-Where = stored?

I could also = do an import if you have a spreadsheet already, just send it to me and I = can import it into your tool vault.

I could also = build in an 'wife total.'  Meaning that you would click on a total = money spent button, but it would only show you a predefined percentage = of the actual value that you set.  IE, you set a 50% value. =  Anytime you hit the 'total spent' button, it would only show you = 50% of the value. This would be to prevent domestic violences of course! =  8>)

Any other = ideas?

Again, it = would be web based (not platform dependant) and 100% free all the = time.



"B= e as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational = being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." = Ralph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John Galt? =

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01D611BB.E11A44C0-- --===============2514918081100553017== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============2514918081100553017==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 13 15:55:51 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C12D7A1741 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:55:51 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from Deep13.mail.Megageek.com (unknown [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E8E2A1741 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:55:47 -0600 (MDT) References: <023401d60f72$47193110$d54b9330$@gmail.com> <000001d611dd$682be4c0$3883ae40$@gmail.com> To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net type=4; name=$KeepSent Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 17:55:46 -0400 04/13/2020 05:55:47 PM, Serialize complete at 04/13/2020 05:55:47 PM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Professional Shop Question- I'll make one From: eric--- via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============5187804179682078261== This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 007876A985258549_= Al writes >Is there any way a person would be able to self-host this? I totally understand the desire to self host. I'd be happy to hand over this code, but I run a domino server and I doubt that anyone else in the world still does. As it wouldn't be much help for you. Now, if you have a domino server, I'll be happy to give you the template (if I make it, but there doesn't seem to be any real intrest in it here.) Geeze, what's a guy got to do to give away a free web based database for tools to a bunch of shop hounds? 8>) "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt? --=_alternative 007876A985258549_= Al writes
>Is there any way a person would be able to self-host this?

I totally understand the desire to self host.  I'd be happy to hand over this code, but I run a domino server and I doubt that anyone else in the world still does.

As it wouldn't be much help for you.  Now, if you have a domino server, I'll be happy to give you the template (if I make it, but there doesn't seem to be any real intrest in it here.)

Geeze, what's a guy got to do to give away a free web based database for tools to a bunch of shop hounds?  8>)



"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John Galt? --=_alternative 007876A985258549_=-- --===============5187804179682078261== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============5187804179682078261==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 13 16:46:33 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6E2FA228F for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 16:46:33 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from gateway36.websitewelcome.com (unknown [192.185.186.5]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A8C3A2151 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 16:45:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cm16.websitewelcome.com (cm16.websitewelcome.com [100.42.49.19]) by gateway36.websitewelcome.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A5DB4010C7BF for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 17:03:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gator4190.hostgator.com ([108.167.189.15]) by cmsmtp with SMTP id O7pnjBj2V8vkBO7pnjy5ft; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 17:45:43 -0500 Received: from ip68-6-92-166.sb.sd.cox.net ([68.6.92.166]:54930 helo=[192.168.7.72]) by gator4190.hostgator.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jO7pn-0026Pi-Dk; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 17:45:43 -0500 Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:45:42 -0700 To: eric@megageek.com References: <023401d60f72$47193110$d54b9330$@gmail.com> <000001d611dd$682be4c0$3883ae40$@gmail.com> please include it with any abuse report [68.6.92.166]:54930 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Professional Shop Question- I'll make one From: Mike Rambour via Shop-talk Cc: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============5715293062605376044== boundary="Apple-Mail=_1A624193-8C78-42F7-A812-BA905BC8A58F" --Apple-Mail=_1A624193-8C78-42F7-A812-BA905BC8A58F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 I made a few edits on your fields :) Inserted in you suggestions, see below. mike > =20 > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 5:19 PM > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Professional Shop Question- I'll make one > =20 > Al writes,=20 >=20 > > In other words, I you or someone else on the list comes up with an = open-source or cheap solution, we can all benefit!=20 >=20 > OK, I'll be happy to make one for free for anyone to use. If you = remember, a while back, I offered to make a 'car maintenance log' for = anyone here that wanted it. While no one bit, I did make it, I called = it "BOLTRAK"=20 > You put in your cars, part numbers for oil filters, oil weight and = capacities, etc. Then you add a record each time you work on that = vehicle. It can record time and money spent, vehicle miles the work was = performed at, etc.=20 > I'm sure it can use some polish. It's not perfect, since I'm the only = one using it, but I like it.=20 > NOTE- Like me, none of my software is pretty. It's 'brutish' at best, = but, also like me, it gets the job done.=20 >=20 > If there really is an interest, I'll be happy to make a web based tool = inventory application. A big advantage would be that it would be 100% = off site (your site) so if the unthinkable happened, the data is safe. = (of course, I can email you an excel spreadsheet anytime you want.)=20 > So, just email me the features you think are important, and I'll put = it together if there is enough interest.=20 >=20 > What I think a record would need...=20 > -Tool=20 > -Brand=20 > -Date purchased=20 > -Amount=20 =E2=80=9CAmount I told the wife=E2=80=9D. This one is nice as we get = older and forget what we told her, I can guarantee she wont forget. =E2=80=9CSerial number=E2=80=9D not all tools have them, but the big = ones do. > -Where purchased (is that worth having?) =20 I think it is worth having. And I would =E2=80=9CWarranty Expires=E2=80=9D some big tools to have = warranties. > -Photo?=20 > -Copy of receipt?=20 > -Where stored?=20 >=20 > I could also do an import if you have a spreadsheet already, just send = it to me and I can import it into your tool vault.=20 >=20 > I could also build in an 'wife total.' Meaning that you would click = on a total money spent button, but it would only show you a predefined = percentage of the actual value that you set. IE, you set a 50% value. = Anytime you hit the 'total spent' button, it would only show you 50% of = the value. This would be to prevent domestic violences of course! 8>)=20= >=20 > Any other ideas?=20 >=20 > Again, it would be web based (not platform dependant) and 100% free = all the time.=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a = rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your = territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson=20 > -Who is John Galt? > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html = > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive = >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/lists@dinospider.com = --Apple-Mail=_1A624193-8C78-42F7-A812-BA905BC8A58F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8

 I made a few edits on your fields = :)

Inserted in you = suggestions, see below.

= mike
 
From: eric@megageek.com <eric@megageek.com> 
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 5:19 = PM
To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Cc: alfuller194@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] = Professional Shop Question- I'll make one
 
Al = writes, 

> In other words, I you or = someone else on the list comes up with an open-source or cheap solution, = we can all benefit! 

OK, I'll be happy to make one for free = for anyone to use.  If you remember, a while back, I offered to = make a 'car maintenance log' for anyone here that wanted it.  While = no one bit, I did make it, I called it "BOLTRAK" 
You = put in your cars, part numbers for oil filters, oil weight and = capacities, etc.  Then you add a record each time you work on that = vehicle.  It can record time and money spent, vehicle miles the = work was performed at, etc. 
I'm = sure it can use some polish. It's not perfect, since I'm the only one = using it, but I like it. 
NOTE- Like me, none of my software is pretty.  It's = 'brutish' at best, but, also like me, it gets the job done. 

If there really is an interest, I'll be happy to = make a web based tool inventory application.  A big advantage would = be that it would be 100% off site (your site) so if the unthinkable = happened, the data is safe. (of course, I can email you an excel = spreadsheet anytime you want.) 
So, = just email me the features you think are important, and I'll put it = together if there is enough interest. 

What I think a record would need... 
-Tool 
-Brand 
-Date purchased 
-Amount 
=E2=80=9CAmount I told the wife=E2=80=9D= . This one is nice as we get older and forget what we told her, I can = guarantee she wont forget.
=E2=80=9CSerial number=E2=80=9D not = all tools have them, but the big ones do.
-Where purchased (is = that worth having?)  
 I think it is worth = having.
 And I would =E2=80=9CWarranty Expires=E2=80=9D = some big tools to have warranties.
-Photo? 
-Copy of receipt? 
-Where stored? 

I could also do an import if you have a = spreadsheet already, just send it to me and I can import it into your = tool vault. 

I could also build in an 'wife total.' =  Meaning that you would click on a total money spent button, but it = would only show you a predefined percentage of the actual value that you = set.  IE, you set a 50% value.  Anytime you hit the 'total = spent' button, it would only show you 50% of the value. This would be to = prevent domestic violences of course!  8>) 

Any other ideas? 

Again, it would be web based (not platform = dependant) and 100% free all the time. 



"Be as beneficent = as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are = trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo = Emerson 
-Who is John Galt?
_______________________________________________

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= --Apple-Mail=_1A624193-8C78-42F7-A812-BA905BC8A58F-- --===============5715293062605376044== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============5715293062605376044==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 14 17:05:35 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4489A161D for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 17:05:35 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qt1-f173.google.com (unknown [209.85.160.173]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51F7FA1140 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 17:05:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-qt1-f173.google.com with SMTP id f13so11679212qti.5 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 16:05:30 -0700 (PDT) h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=nMhS8oET3YY+RfSdSl6BJuVyTBZMIZ6KxvPuJqrU/u0=; b=hKTYKSEkgm9rtbIWYULcH2YdM/5yK/HIYnaoUrMbMzc6t30NwOYkmfk7PvJpocBAwc eF/GeKDfeuvZhA56rtb65+ydgOTWlagi4kC4unxPJfPDzaUN1wD6z5Xgkm3NmoWG0ZXX E5CKtBB2Vu9istbiDvFmk5EeUCMBXgQYBryp4ksWXEmeLBRWLfDOTDiVHIMdgxI/078r DV/YLX6fCO5RfFG56xlevCHro98gKiiM2cjzBhVPKHdEPUX1rS81uLwHcH2udcjZ/qIk EXKKX3+wg8W71qXdnHGxslCPUMi1Y8YTG7NgM2XsmXqeCea57zBdmWkipKqx1/RsUUn1 Fogw== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=nMhS8oET3YY+RfSdSl6BJuVyTBZMIZ6KxvPuJqrU/u0=; b=SvGtd1i4JqnodY4zEBAWGod+YK12//tJVDCPhQHNd02+0VpDwIR2kYTMYqjqr9/DGT gcvy7cGO7/6IRA3qo10DTnFVj8oF8FXxo1x/Zg6zRmpz90KI+tWgvTpWmXQbzPXsznsf v52tT11UyAp+Iamb9SVOTpgnFa+mjatmjVS8tIweBnTRBlGSiGy6wSlbWtZ5CL/fdN91 KDVbRxd9/hg5beamdMk+CNepeMDvTBRqAqqanjjKXTBzmYWLDlvzLUQ+6Q5ifpkWA/3e VMiRnroeIPuwxa+P89wAidusnL0+3iTn64C+nzlDZdL510pzlaweVlJzkmGRSgq2sjiY uUbw== NjWUqaL5Rj6D5WSC/ZTXvOLwNFjo Tue, 14 Apr 2020 16:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hpenvy2 (c-76-112-183-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net. [76.112.183.50]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u65sm11341920qkh.100.2020.04.14.16.05.27 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Apr 2020 16:05:28 -0700 (PDT) To: References: <023401d60f72$47193110$d54b9330$@gmail.com> <000001d611dd$682be4c0$3883ae40$@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 19:05:26 -0400 Thread-Index: AQIp2EnBqIiXuvstKj1hNUfreYHKawD6gz0hAmmBNRwC5TzOqQJdglvTp4x68/A= Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Professional Shop Question- I'll make one From: Al Fuller via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============2140448236889052257== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0043_01D6128F.A8DB83B0" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01D6128F.A8DB83B0 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric - thanks for the offer. You're right - a Domino based software wont help on the self-hosting front. ---------------- All the best, Al Fuller From: eric@megageek.com Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 5:56 PM To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Cc: alfuller194@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Professional Shop Question- I'll make one Al writes >Is there any way a person would be able to self-host this? I totally understand the desire to self host. I'd be happy to hand over this code, but I run a domino server and I doubt that anyone else in the world still does. As it wouldn't be much help for you. Now, if you have a domino server, I'll be happy to give you the template (if I make it, but there doesn't seem to be any real intrest in it here.) Geeze, what's a guy got to do to give away a free web based database for tools to a bunch of shop hounds? 8>) "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt? ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01D6128F.A8DB83B0 charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Eric – thanks for the offer.

 

You’re = right – a Domino based software wont help on the self-hosting = front…

 

----------------

All the best,

 

Al = Fuller

 

From: eric@megageek.com = <eric@megageek.com>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 5:56 = PM
To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Cc: = alfuller194@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Professional = Shop Question- I'll make one

 

Al = writes
>Is = there any way a person would be able to self-host this?

I totally = understand the desire to self host.  I'd be happy to hand over this = code, but I run a domino server and I doubt that anyone else in the = world still does.

As it wouldn't = be much help for you.  Now, if you have a domino server, I'll be = happy to give you the template (if I make it, but there doesn't seem to = be any real intrest in it here.)

Geeze, what's = a guy got to do to give away a free web based database for tools to a = bunch of shop hounds?  8>)



"Be = as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational = being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." = Ralph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John Galt? =

------=_NextPart_000_0043_01D6128F.A8DB83B0-- --===============2140448236889052257== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============2140448236889052257==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 16 12:13:30 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B1C9A1744 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 12:13:30 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from relay12.mail.gandi.net (unknown [217.70.178.232]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95256A170C for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 12:13:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.135] (c-73-253-103-15.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [73.253.103.15]) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by relay12.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DBA14200007 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 18:13:20 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 14:13:18 -0400 To: Shop-talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks From: Jim Franklin via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Having decided it's better to build a nice ornate deck out of PT than a small simple deck of of fancy materials, I'm looking at the foundation. Frost line here is 48" and I need 18" footings. I have found 3 options and I'm wondering if I missed anything: 1. Traditional concrete with forms and sonotubes 2. Pre-cast footings (22", 100 lbs) and stackable piers (EZ-Tube) 3. Helical piles I haven't heard back from the town on that last one and they're the priciest at $275 per. The pre-cast are $150 per. Concrete will require hauling about 45,000 bags into the backyard. I'm leaning towards #2 . I don't own any yard equipment but I can rent a skid steer with auger, though not a 24" auger I don't think. thanks, jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 16 17:14:57 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF345A1723 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 17:14:56 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from ms11p00im-qufo17291401.me.com (unknown [17.58.38.43]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE524A16CE for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 17:14:50 -0600 (MDT) s=1a1hai; t=1587078888; bh=uCaExWtsqoCOLEkf6MdRa3REmRtqbZNEfVq9GgFqUU0=; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=H6c3Mm3r7Lr/5WVIBemn7D8EkfeO2c0eDmM78lMbQgH7shCtaVpVWQ8sWHKXkqpuI BDrfaXvFwbAD5n229NtthTX+Xo/uEzbzm0ZXyi0eFDHGV5RWw5wrvrCtlBc3JEKk78 hmlXHgZLesCCZgjFxluk8l/HPASJcBOXwjLwFO24j0jhzHAzv71xnxINlCKDp6Y+SO KXT5pYNoHwvDyJT/TpdIZ5GZ4VFDY8XlHs+J+EqxpVWNGEG5gVEVnPd0aNRBr1TJ5t aKCSvlkO7tGVoWypVP0fEim/06v7Zc6SDgsx9HiNLYX2Dw/gaUalbstjH3ueSFU2Pb LKdkFpbgpa33Q== Received: from [192.168.88.18] (unknown [199.38.189.253]) by ms11p00im-qufo17291401.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 22643760341; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 23:14:48 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 18:14:46 -0500 References: To: Jim Franklin definitions=2020-04-16_10:2020-04-14, 2020-04-16 signatures=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=825 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-2002250000 definitions=main-2004160159 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks From: Pat Horne via Shop-talk Cc: Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net MjTigJ0gZGlhbWV0ZXIgaG9sZSBpcyBwcmV0dHkgbGFyZ2UuIEkgaGFkIDI04oCdIHBpZXJzIGRy 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KClNob3AtdGFsa0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldApEb25hdGU6IGh0dHA6 Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvZG9uYXRlLmh0bWwKU3VnZ2VzdGVkIGFubnVhbCBkb25hdGlvbiAgJDEy Ljk2CkFyY2hpdmU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvcGlwZXJtYWlsL3Nob3AtdGFsayBodHRw Oi8vYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvYXJjaGl2ZQoKVW5zdWJzY3JpYmUvTWFuYWdlOiBodHRwOi8vYXV0 b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvbWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL3Nob3AtdGFsay9taGFyY0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5l dAoK From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 16 20:33:11 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2FF2A1423 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 20:33:11 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from NAM11-CO1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (unknown [40.92.18.63]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A7DA13CE for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 20:15:43 -0600 (MDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; 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s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=/bTE7RNOjRlAsWvx0yq38u5CINe9H1Q//Er1KHubYq4=; b=u+juICE6bpMtlZAnqF6KgwvtdHF/ATanFE0Kv0mk/wK+zVQJJmOSTW79UEcjVsh8mH00566gY2FoVPXTyW8VX52SofG5LDJaUsWLqBM5lEkv6K8rJm7z25tm/llFQdFj9p/X+k6fr3KLrvhgIn73Lck/sgo5bb/JAA9tkT2dP0hBAdcOSN4wKGthZv5hqgri5E5KrWgC8IJKFsH0oW4GTWoLDhuDs2tlnWPGYMM2XY2rEh1effNHYIGHmbsHL2TcwcGlILNNkOzBg1hkuPFdw6LbLYYPPJASt0x5BjcN1PaCIN2W9UO6806uW+Kbv7wiK9zEp1adc0jVW/ZzjyVhFw== Received: from CO1NAM11FT058.eop-nam11.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:3861::49) by CO1NAM11HT171.eop-nam11.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:3861::221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2921.25; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 02:15:42 +0000 Received: from MN2PR11MB4318.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:3861::46) by CO1NAM11FT058.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:3861::164) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2921.25 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 02:15:42 +0000 Received: from MN2PR11MB4318.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::88dc:2e4f:de9a:8e77]) by MN2PR11MB4318.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::88dc:2e4f:de9a:8e77%6]) with mapi id 15.20.2900.028; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 02:15:42 +0000 To: Jim Franklin , Pat Horne Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks Thread-Index: AQHWFBq+OusYXMSz3UqeMrJfz8Ccvah8YW0AgAAwqFI= Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 02:15:42 +0000 References: , Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:26ACCACFF20C66BDA62BCA779AC6AE405592BC3D5CBD8DE6CF62BFAFF1E06D76; UpperCasedChecksum:11E2270035C147AF6B4CEB4C4A6E657504912CDE58E135213D462D4F7CEC7E65; SizeAsReceived:7101; Count:47 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [d8LlRaKurh5U0lI8bgfe/Viz14HOHGV+] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-incomingheadercount: 47 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 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http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============4057150945626581442==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 18 09:28:06 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7C20A0EF5 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 09:28:06 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-vs1-f50.google.com (unknown [209.85.217.50]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DCC1A0DE1 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 09:28:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-vs1-f50.google.com with SMTP id p28so3014857vsg.13 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 08:28:00 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=TQ/rJPi+ZafcRFP2QqyAazmcphVsyrEprCl2F0/f7+Y=; b=HfWOlA+XycscDh1yrnvdNDLlDgLd3cVWJN4bEegRMTBh1UT4U0XPz6Y6QpMgCaZaVh mll8SH8MicMvmTIYvVVB2u8Nf92XiYLJ9/VMtSLX1pg4ji5iD7/F+Fyc5oo1Roq5gyk2 2jdyYs29boXlo47Ixs9dcMsCi0oTGzX5YCqFZ4QolGaaTS/1AZGwRR/zgErcHE/a0yK1 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on a shop vac when I hit the trigger on a saw, router, etc. I'm certain that I've seen something like this but I can't seem to find anything after spending a couple of hours on-line. There are remote switches that use a RF remote, but I want one that senses the current flow when the saw's turns on which then switches on the plug the vacuum is plugged into. Should be able to build it, but buying off the shelf would be simpler. TIA, Ron --00000000000093edb905a3924f9d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Looking for a "remote switch" that turns on a sh= op vac when I hit the trigger on a saw, router, etc. I'm certain that I= 've seen something like this but I can't seem to find anything afte= r spending=C2=A0a couple of hours on-line.

There are rem= ote switches that use a RF remote, but I want one that senses the current f= low when the saw's turns on which then switches on the plug the vacuum= =C2=A0is plugged into.

Should be able to build it, but buying off th= e shelf would be simpler.

TIA,
Ron
=
--00000000000093edb905a3924f9d-- --===============0547596348841911033== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0547596348841911033==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 18 09:47:44 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92D6BA10AE for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 09:47:44 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from Deep13.mail.Megageek.com (unknown [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 202C7A107F for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 09:47:39 -0600 (MDT) References: To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net type=4; name=$KeepSent Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 11:47:39 -0400 04/18/2020 11:47:40 AM, Serialize complete at 04/18/2020 11:47:40 AM Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Remote power switch From: eric--- via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============5549688041239107789== This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0056C3428525854E_= Ron asks about remote switches. Is this what you want? https://www.rockler.com/ivac-dust-collector-switch-box , It states that it turns on automaticly with the unit. They also have remote control switches, but I think this is what you were asking for, "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt? --=_alternative 0056C3428525854E_= Ron asks about remote switches.

Is this what you want?

https://www.rockler.com/ivac-dust-collector-switch-box ,

It states that it turns on automaticly with the unit.  They also have remote control switches, but I think this is what you were asking for,



"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John Galt? --=_alternative 0056C3428525854E_=-- --===============5549688041239107789== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============5549688041239107789==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 18 10:27:15 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35C7AA0D87 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 10:27:15 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mout.perfora.net (unknown [74.208.4.196]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1D0AA0D3D for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 10:27:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tims-mbp-2.hsd1.nj.comcast.net ([73.198.41.90]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus002 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LnPvE-1ikkBk0bKo-00hajh for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 18:27:10 +0200 Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 12:27:08 -0400 References: To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net XboBzeTeW8wZhDkeRimPLzchw6Ay7M8Mj6JFYio9mkTHY0Dho3JYk759tnpd9X4gBAPO1GA qGr2C0wIDuh1NL2aUx54ODwHhINskNSSJc+hhDK585CcVGrZcjBRS9i08CN2YZ9TLYn0Ol1 XpXD+t7TZNKh3MM0c1Q2g== iqJldDu3WYebTIvg+HJomgDpKDsjHG4CK6VpV0eSA3D6kY4EjpX9Qu/OXldhW+IWlfXtBWkiN GDAd3d0PhFh3M3ySLSm3z+k4KhFjIw7VgsTFmgUvV51K91/XNh2xztXyAGbkoQnVORGbnIdog tFffmk2AscHmfsAlumnkhX9FEdoLP/FZjhuKe3/BL0BcudImDhUSkZBu2okgO3ldw6MK2cyI0 hHWJ37O+5SWM3lKlAcwuhUhu+GaITXJcn2z2FB2hJd+CFsidsM0iCORNejX3DDxok2aC2Q7TM OTxgDL2ARc8k3Ihfpfk82R7IU/NXOswtxZY/373xeKphOcd+L6MoP251wp7rV5k7lJ0lE3Lm+ 6BTcuatshY0tzKn0nbwEYm8Xqzp/Si4bTwu5nj1X4Q1VhrG+Gsj/PY49LS0CarA5jO9J4CyQj OR/f4zaKoOH63Oj2LB28mLy6OX18bnh+XqjteYr+gkj7w+0RBF5n63/GVq6wAXFasxJ6RA4Dk 2JsrnNaemJtZ3z48jIoslf3bSNhTPx7DG9TVuB6QNKF+KVhr55a657Ok5f5IPmHS61e9t0+kf Bh2Ji6Ozwn/RJkn9f6gJ0/SkuiywOADA8ftrfFAEAxebhNwj2GHzWss0JktZymiBePLqdmbF8 kWApf0YakMwj7UNVGTRxVSYmZNv4LGFe3PY7mh3ASjRv9t03jJSPjdh1RLAZubIdf0ViR2VX9 hrZVEXtINZLlqCdrwyPiUClTpYmLI7hxP9vYz8trbN6EabpINROvxDa3NWirq1EYqDINnK5Yy vh5iES1sI/7p/DcLXMZ4T4B8JTABwRigq/FeuqAJF12tBIC/Rr+LsbG/a6Pnz6SyX+l5IzF Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Remote power switch From: Tim Hoerning via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3686893769309012983== boundary="Apple-Mail=_3C2E2437-2CAE-4C12-B473-5AEAEFFE6B27" --Apple-Mail=_3C2E2437-2CAE-4C12-B473-5AEAEFFE6B27 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 How much power are you talking about? Found these at the local dollar = store and it seems like it would work if the draw isn=E2=80=99t too much=20= = https://www.amazon.com/Sunbeam-Advance-Outlet-Strips-Protector/dp/B07K3ZLM= P7 Tim > On Apr 18, 2020, at 11:47 AM, eric--- via Shop-talk = wrote: >=20 > Ron asks about remote switches.=20 >=20 > Is this what you want?=20 >=20 > https://www.rockler.com/ivac-dust-collector-switch-box = ,=20 >=20 > It states that it turns on automaticly with the unit. They also have = remote control switches, but I think this is what you were asking for,=20= >=20 >=20 >=20 > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a = rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your = territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson=20 > -Who is John Galt?_______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tim@chenhoerning.com >=20 --Apple-Mail=_3C2E2437-2CAE-4C12-B473-5AEAEFFE6B27 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 How = much power are you talking about?   Found these at the local dollar = store and it seems like it would work if the draw isn=E2=80=99t too = much 

https://www.amazon.com/Sunbeam-Advance-Outlet-Strips-Protector/= dp/B07K3ZLMP7

Tim

On Apr 18, 2020, at 11:47 AM, eric--- via = Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:

Ron asks about remote switches.

Is this = what you want?

https://www.rockler.com/ivac-dust-collector-switch-box ,

It states = that it turns on automaticly with the unit.  They also have remote control switches, but I think this is what you were asking for,



"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a = rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John = Galt?_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: =  $12.96
Archive: = http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/tim@chenhoerning.com


= --Apple-Mail=_3C2E2437-2CAE-4C12-B473-5AEAEFFE6B27-- --===============3686893769309012983== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3686893769309012983==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 18 10:32:01 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 725A9A10C8 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 10:32:01 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-vs1-f50.google.com (unknown [209.85.217.50]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0A44A0DD7 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 10:31:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-vs1-f50.google.com with SMTP id l25so432703vso.6 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 09:31:56 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Xza259dDsmZqOo0kIB7ikpznGshzYC57B1DkpK5ZA/4=; b=XpmA3Ek7oUhuxMF6SpNIVJL3fQotOt4aVOjsqHRYVvfDsaOOEgYgRTAtTn+Pe27w6s ydQnELKYTLaaitN9BsTyBoB56oT3ZrHaLN8QtFC57jW8OeyNix4soexjsGrOXv+WU0T9 zBtZP7NLRlJwlQWHYT6mgW51Z4nzt85mwJDOY9TJY4Cz0UG74/lhGK2A+AEOb33GtAI3 s0iVF+C4RX/LXcA4aL48ov4jnNTPkBXwM8BTrZ1XadPgljWlAU/2jkQR2NtEOrojRYR/ bC3fZNPzR+PPdvloTesMo0ysUloOLmpU7pE5iu9ajVErssZDIgPYc9RBzCuHswQFd/IP FTxA== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Xza259dDsmZqOo0kIB7ikpznGshzYC57B1DkpK5ZA/4=; b=ewGS1UH03P1pebVsa/Vove4skFBqXYGg8IsRmb0T1Ae2svdWgVB/4gbe66bSbwdoGj bl7jU8njMFHMzsMhysZFVcVBO+OSTQP6YUWr7sxelhXF6JxM5kPip+6F2/y+eqVEY4DF AX80ytUkQBuJNKazEO492Lq72DDlLnSbtYWJ31jQTVJqA505nLR0w/Dz0W/BWP8SaIKH 7+VydlMT0HdsOfLJqELtlPuaEQHRaKPfXUw8FXyuO33o5+ffO6l1wXDlIt/nw0zQh8ql CI9C1CHIA4xRJb8SrD9ODL/5Y11m+73qLV6Q3niy15QKHTLaapitkQ0gNcTHiTCE9OFx 2y6Q== LxPmcoYRVX7ceuZrzkmd+NXLtNpfmzHKFIgOu+1skV0= Sat, 18 Apr 2020 09:31:55 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 11:31:22 -0500 To: Shop-Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Remote power switch From: Ronnie Day via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============2789060775815433600== --00000000000044016205a39334a9 Thanks, Eric. I also found the I Socket. Looked at the iVac and found they offer a "Pro" version that's rated for 20 amps AND has a 1.5 sec start delay and selectable accessory power off. I particularly like the start offset to minimize current surge, even though our shop is all 20 amp circuits. On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 10:47 AM wrote: > Ron asks about remote switches. > > Is this what you want? > > *https://www.rockler.com/ivac-dust-collector-switch-box* > , > > It states that it turns on automaticly with the unit. They also have > remote control switches, but I think this is what you were asking for, > > > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > -Who is John Galt? --00000000000044016205a39334a9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks, Eric. I also found the I Socket. Looked at the iVa= c and found they offer a "Pro" version that's rated for 20 am= ps AND has a 1.5 sec start delay and selectable accessory power off. I par= ticularly like the start offset to minimize current surge, even though our = shop is all 20 amp circuits.

On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 10:47 AM <eric@megageek.com> wrote:
Ron asks about remote switches.

Is this what you want?

https://www.rockler.com/iv= ac-dust-collector-switch-box ,

It states that it turns on automat= icly with the unit.=C2=A0 They also have remote control switches, but I think this is what you were asking for,



"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a ratio= nal being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John Galt?
--00000000000044016205a39334a9-- --===============2789060775815433600== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============2789060775815433600==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 18 13:19:12 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBB42A1032 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 13:19:11 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ot1-f49.google.com (unknown [209.85.210.49]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09FD6A0FC0 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 13:19:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-ot1-f49.google.com with SMTP id 8so505083otj.1 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 12:19:04 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=gB23lnmvWsrS9WY4qIbyexjKnmVw1AW0A23G43rfbe4=; b=RUmxv6Xwva7kW9HVVsMkXRf+6R2PAT9db786l0bu9nhFcw9kqyLlDdZ52zt+2hErEg zzCKHNQnhdJX0fzGfNtUqEzBrIzRiH0y97IDdboJ/Sta/5ee7q6hMpHo/mWSh+AdA1xl vXYewsEAwWKNan5JgdC0xTxcqmpRLHHcGuYNkGJzXHiidnt9wCugLLp40fe3VMme92hZ 77n9F5FWNdQarIKE0RON9+Nss+yuiiB154HLCfiWpjn8dZJxYl23jDn+lUcPpCy+yHhS mO+NEZmVelm/cU739OrzV7s9r2FTey7djIuO9Cj2ARS6S4O7H2Dk+uKDS/H7XCy6cnVA cIJA== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=gB23lnmvWsrS9WY4qIbyexjKnmVw1AW0A23G43rfbe4=; b=OaCxG84s/jL0+aW3iQXPL23jfK7HXsoQtHp/jKFaVB90kC+iRrzMCgoDQZgzGuU/sJ tJ2+ny+hvPZLRmNmDod9Y9tToGFDBLWtNFQKPNCzu4vLEhipiCHw9uBHh/K9JUFqXsiF zqntC61ud5J9O0m25ZKUktZudUDGn6sXofIKi7r7AB1FFjkdEZdrZpj4jyiOIc08u3hz B/edONJb/BKlmCQPKyBS9Pm9I4clVUYP8jl5K0l6Bt6QwrkasuI7x/D9ro01IaoIgjlG ImUvO7xq4n0Gakfi88PC39RwTHymLVtimFf7lK+PVHu6JAUhNhQKSX8hrHN+K4cBCv8e iX+g== CqkmM52o0IjY9asb3anJ1BHRTG9hwmSP01DufGwkvyyS y11mr3704978oto.88.1587237544172; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 12:19:04 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 15:18:55 -0400 To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Remote power switch From: Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============5445285539677959067== --000000000000fea2aa05a39589d2 A bit more fiddly, but look at how a central vacuum system works. Every place you have to plug in a hose, there are a pair of metal pins. Push the hose in, and the metal sleeve connects the pins and energizes a relay that starts the vacuum. A relay or motor starter for the vacuum and a handy switch near each tool would let you turn it on as you turn on each tool. Yes, you have to flip a switch, but you don't have to leave the tool to do it. And I bet it's a whole lot cheaper than a lot of these other systems. Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 11:28 AM Ronnie Day via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > Looking for a "remote switch" that turns on a shop vac when I hit the > trigger on a saw, router, etc. I'm certain that I've seen something like > this but I can't seem to find anything after spending a couple of hours > on-line. > > There are remote switches that use a RF remote, but I want one that senses > the current flow when the saw's turns on which then switches on the plug > the vacuum is plugged into. > > Should be able to build it, but buying off the shelf would be simpler. > > TIA, > Ron > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com > > --000000000000fea2aa05a39589d2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A bit more fiddly, but look at how a central vacuum system= works.=C2=A0 Every place you have to plug in a hose, there are=C2=A0 a pai= r of metal pins.=C2=A0 Push the hose in, and the metal sleeve connects the = pins and energizes a relay that starts the vacuum.

A rel= ay or motor starter for the vacuum and a handy switch near each tool would = let you turn it on as you turn on each tool.=C2=A0 Yes, you have to flip a = switch, but you don't have to leave the tool to do it.=C2=A0 And I bet = it's a whole lot cheaper than a lot of these other systems.
<= br>
Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.

=

On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 11:28 AM Ronnie Day via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote= :
Looking for a "remote switch" that turns on a shop vac when I = hit the trigger on a saw, router, etc. I'm certain that I've seen s= omething like this but I can't seem to find anything after spending=C2= =A0a couple of hours on-line.

There are remote switches = that use a RF remote, but I want one that senses the current flow when the = saw's turns on which then switches on the plug the vacuum=C2=A0is plugg= ed into.

Should be able to build it, but buying off the shelf would = be simpler.

TIA,
Ron
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/fishplate@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.= team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com

--000000000000fea2aa05a39589d2-- --===============5445285539677959067== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============5445285539677959067==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Apr 18 17:37:12 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6699CA0D47 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 17:37:12 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-vs1-f53.google.com (unknown [209.85.217.53]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FFACA0D42 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 17:37:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-vs1-f53.google.com with SMTP id g184so3668993vsc.0 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 16:37:05 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ooULDToQUXOAZM9OC/ZZMozHTLMIadZZgCJiMctClHA=; b=HE3CBrCxQyEveFEb2hDfxu4Jrmw6zE6Il0embOyUE0uvN1LC1vGuxTcCs72WnfEkh4 ZeMofcg8GJBiS4Ax5WvthoQ7PmlDVXtmiesjF4CCWHYxWM/lviB7r/Fjo9GkDQ5MxRPD 60EqZIrS4Kcd5leIh4g7nCBcf/IvycvnUCymSbJTDjomA9pH7zU97fEiBQw6DY/pMKAl aBUfWKItGIe4BNeyOE55ZsTeVV+yb0kJar3iuw4nUFK3NoyfHDWf3ItQvwJuUxnkReDG EOLO2x9pr8u4hXJiDj1laYI/xiQ5LpyKO/6DEF50XyuDydK8r7QnbEJO4FAnKt1arM35 cfRA== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=ooULDToQUXOAZM9OC/ZZMozHTLMIadZZgCJiMctClHA=; b=IkgOXRqO5jYBjohNFhcDxs5ofnTDw1RXKWB5B8Gell9RBdBvViQXMIp0Z1g5BlfMBf fkOcU4IVjYtPmBpxIS/PUwU1vNeV8H/A9Rvl8fGyfMoIj9SY6ctO2SR+JjaElIHjOJiJ 6Lv7ydFv7TVduYsYj+gEEPP+medK34R52WgAZp0ku4G57xIMUTPesKHoPcLf6TO9Mg15 aACegFC24PAHkvv5NPjX/L7JS3eXryJalfEawMLSJGwc1duTjGV7bmH/z/7YxOjoYq7u bzFAD3HrEBoaAdob39zT+zpJQCVGhj14dTrGTB0pV4MdtnMF4U+P87zNtVTGNCB5luJu 4tCw== od0F991zek0ZlOPRWowwktUvpER015/AvE/hZsRt Sat, 18 Apr 2020 16:37:04 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 18:36:53 -0500 To: Shop-Talk List Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Remote power switch From: Ronnie Day via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============2915791900555199155== --000000000000b0436f05a3992480 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good idea, except we=E2=80=99re not doing a central system, and may not. Bu= t for now we don=E2=80=99t want sawdust all over the place, regardless. A switch = like this is the easiest solution, IMO. On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 2:19 PM Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > A bit more fiddly, but look at how a central vacuum system works. Every > place you have to plug in a hose, there are a pair of metal pins. Push > the hose in, and the metal sleeve connects the pins and energizes a relay > that starts the vacuum. > > A relay or motor starter for the vacuum and a handy switch near each tool > would let you turn it on as you turn on each tool. Yes, you have to flip= a > switch, but you don't have to leave the tool to do it. And I bet it's a > whole lot cheaper than a lot of these other systems. > > Jeff Scarbrough > Corrosion Acres, Ga. > > > On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 11:28 AM Ronnie Day via Shop-talk < > shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > >> Looking for a "remote switch" that turns on a shop vac when I hit the >> trigger on a saw, router, etc. I'm certain that I've seen something like >> this but I can't seem to find anything after spending a couple of hours >> on-line. >> >> There are remote switches that use a RF remote, but I want one that >> senses the current flow when the saw's turns on which then switches on t= he >> plug the vacuum is plugged into. >> >> Should be able to build it, but buying off the shelf would be simpler. >> >> TIA, >> Ron >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> Shop-talk@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk >> http://autox.team.net/archive >> >> Unsubscribe/Manage: >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com > > --000000000000b0436f05a3992480 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good idea, except we=E2=80=99re not doing a central = system, and may not. But for now we don=E2=80=99t want sawdust all over=C2= =A0the place, regardless. A switch =C2=A0like this is the easiest solution,= IMO.

On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 2:19 PM Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-ta= lk <shop-talk@autox.team.net= > wrote:
A = bit more fiddly, but look at how a central vacuum system works.=C2=A0 Every= place you have to plug in a hose, there are=C2=A0 a pair of metal pins.=C2= =A0 Push the hose in, and the metal sleeve connects the pins and energizes = a relay that starts the vacuum.

A relay or motor starter= for the vacuum and a handy switch near each tool would let you turn it on = as you turn on each tool.=C2=A0 Yes, you have to flip a switch, but you don= 't have to leave the tool to do it.=C2=A0 And I bet it's a whole lo= t cheaper than a lot of these other systems.

Jeff = Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.


On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 11:28 AM Ronnie Day via Shop-ta= lk <shop-t= alk@autox.team.net> wrote:
Looking for a "remote switch" that turns on a shop = vac when I hit the trigger on a saw, router, etc. I'm certain that I= 9;ve seen something like this but I can't seem to find anything after s= pending=C2=A0a couple of hours on-line.

There are remote= switches that use a RF remote, but I want one that senses the current flow= when the saw's turns on which then switches on the plug the vacuum=C2= =A0is plugged into.

Should be able to build it, but buying off the s= helf would be simpler.

TIA,
Ron
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/fishplate@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.= team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/ronnie.day@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox= .team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/ronnie.day@gmail.com

--000000000000b0436f05a3992480-- --===============2915791900555199155== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============2915791900555199155==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 21 20:26:31 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0AABA12C1 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 20:26:30 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from relay12.mail.gandi.net (unknown [217.70.178.232]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC34A14A2 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 20:44:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.135] (c-73-253-103-15.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [73.253.103.15]) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by relay12.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8716F200002; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 02:44:51 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 22:44:48 -0400 To: PJ McGarvey References: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks From: Jim Franklin via Shop-talk Cc: Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8698091030379381173== boundary="Apple-Mail=_D0EE5948-037B-4B34-A5C5-66251A456132" --Apple-Mail=_D0EE5948-037B-4B34-A5C5-66251A456132 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 Yep, 18" is spot on per the beam and joist spacing, but the pre-cast = footer only comes in 22".=20 Getting the concrete to the location will be difficult. The house is up = a 100' inclined driveway that won't support a full sized truck, and the = then another 100' around back to the site. Even a pumper would need a = lot of hose. Are there smaller/lighter site-mix trucks now? I suppose = they could pump it to the top of the driveway and wheelbarrow it around = back... > On Apr 16, 2020, at 10:15 PM, PJ McGarvey = wrote: >=20 > I doubt you'll need more than 18" diameter footings for a deck.=20 >=20 > In any case, I would pay a bit more for concrete delivery. I did this = in November for a 16'x16' screened porch I'm almost finished with. For = that diameter and depth, that's alot of concrete to mix correctly. In an = hour you can have it delivered, poured, and save alot of hassle.=20 >=20 > From: Shop-talk on behalf of Pat = Horne via Shop-talk > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2020 7:14 PM > To: Jim Franklin > Cc: Shop-talk > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks > =20 > 24=E2=80=9D diameter hole is pretty large. I had 24=E2=80=9D piers = drilled by a company. They brought a large drill truck. I had 3 piers = drilled 25=E2=80=99 deep, including bell bottoms. Cost was $800. Only = reason I brought this up is it might not be that much over the cost of = the skid steer to have someone else drill them.=20 >=20 > Peace, > Pat >=20 > Pat Horne=20 > We support Habitat for Humanity >=20 >=20 > > On Apr 16, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Jim Franklin via Shop-talk = wrote: > >=20 >=20 > =EF=BB=BFHaving decided it's better to build a nice ornate deck out of = PT than a small simple deck of of fancy materials, I'm looking at the = foundation. Frost line here is 48" and I need 18" footings. I have found = 3 options and I'm wondering if I missed anything: >=20 > 1. Traditional concrete with forms and sonotubes > 2. Pre-cast footings (22", 100 lbs) and stackable piers (EZ-Tube) > 3. Helical piles=20 >=20 > I haven't heard back from the town on that last one and they're the = priciest at $275 per. The pre-cast are $150 per. Concrete will require = hauling about 45,000 bags into the backyard.=20 >=20 > I'm leaning towards #2 . I don't own any yard equipment but I can rent = a skid steer with auger, though not a 24" auger I don't think. >=20 > thanks, > jim > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html = > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive = >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.com = >=20 > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html = > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive = >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_mcgarvey@hotmail.com = --Apple-Mail=_D0EE5948-037B-4B34-A5C5-66251A456132 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 Yep, = 18" is spot on per the beam and joist spacing, but the pre-cast footer = only comes in 22". 

Getting the concrete to the location will be difficult. The = house is up a 100' inclined driveway that won't support a full sized = truck, and the then another 100' around back to the site. Even a pumper = would need a lot of hose. Are there smaller/lighter site-mix trucks now? = I suppose they could pump it to the top of the driveway and wheelbarrow = it around back...

On Apr 16, 2020, at 10:15 PM, = PJ McGarvey <pj_mcgarvey@hotmail.com> wrote:

I doubt you'll need more than 18" diameter = footings for a deck. 

In any case, I would pay a bit more for = concrete delivery. I did this in November for a 16'x16' screened porch = I'm almost finished with. For that diameter and depth, that's alot of = concrete to mix correctly. In an hour you can have it delivered, poured, = and save alot of hassle. 

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Pat = Horne via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2020 = 7:14 PM
To: Jim Franklin <jamesf@groupwbench.org>
Cc: Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings = and piers for decks
 
24=E2=80=9D diameter hole is pretty = large. I had 24=E2=80=9D piers drilled by a company. They brought a = large drill truck. I had 3 piers drilled 25=E2=80=99 deep, including = bell bottoms. Cost was $800. Only reason I brought this up is it might = not be that much over the cost of the skid steer to have someone else = drill them. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity


> On Apr 16, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Jim Franklin = via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
> 

=EF=BB=BFHaving decided it's better to build a nice ornate = deck out of PT than a small simple deck of of fancy materials, I'm = looking at the foundation. Frost line here is 48" and I need 18" = footings. I have found 3 options and I'm wondering if I missed = anything:

1. Traditional concrete with = forms and sonotubes
2. Pre-cast footings (22", 100 = lbs)  and stackable piers (EZ-Tube)
3. Helical = piles 
I haven't heard back from the town on that last one and = they're the priciest at $275 per. The pre-cast are $150 per. Concrete = will require hauling about 45,000 bags into the backyard. 

I'm leaning towards #2 . I don't own any yard equipment but I = can rent a skid steer with auger, though not a 24" auger I don't = think.

thanks,
jim
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested = annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@iclo= ud.com

_______________________________________________

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Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested = annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_mcgarvey@hot= mail.com

= --Apple-Mail=_D0EE5948-037B-4B34-A5C5-66251A456132-- --===============8698091030379381173== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8698091030379381173==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 21 22:24:16 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE7CDA1314 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 22:24:16 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (unknown [209.86.89.69]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB789A0BE9 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 22:13:41 -0600 (MDT) s=dk12062016; t=1587528821; bh=ZeeNxbLnGZM5HFiSTXef+f1gDuyu8545Q7U1 dVoRBJU=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:Message-ID: Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer: Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; b=XpFRF9Ph2fSobGka8NnO n/zcmqaH/kTMRR4NV7UrWrPZ9b5PyPN5Ug0/tGjN2/19BzNY9ctUo++rD6/e6Ifk5GJ F2o6zMEzabZ0q/IelDDw9lLCpYQf1hcSFo8uHiAN1PI1/TXPm/TXlMQ6W+Vc4i+7Hor sncVL8z7yAeNYt2/5reu71Modh+bWZXoWjbS4BEuUCC0SMubT4UhasR1YyZuxIta5vC wzPTSN44sSqJctVD8SN5FyQstT2kCEZ7neer2D+YQIW0Tdap1HUfUpbK5yDM6A8N2kS 2d9+aoCf+FaBUsDCHME4/PIAsNrIG/9fgUO8bBnA6hXoohKijDHxvg== DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk12062016; d=earthlink.net; b=CMSyD7ilKvyNn+Vtl9WSubpE1WVL7usS70WI+GvFpZiDl15qI0xDqdCUB2LiwDMZHUqCpFlTtymKAGcWVjGJiTuX8b0xAj10/Apu6VeGYO9LanbXjPpwFow4Vh27K8RXVAAJhCnf/J54Eh6E37NDicNL/tq+4E3KNPkND0wqiJyg3LFZPyZCnrTj2JSm0BUI4Nu7Zg1RheBXLd9xCtA8Vf4J7f2cgK+9x9USvRDpr/VtfEoBmV4WolJZmDuFbFIOT7E+CvqJBkmPUeUdNe9u/UlTt4//ikxaPohx9FhpM9DwUy/jKuAblIB98C/QVdV1IbzWxFukEqzMsB05CJXC5g==; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.167] (helo=wamui-cheeto.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4) (envelope-from ) id 1jR6lY-0005WZ-S2; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 00:13:40 -0400 Received: from 184.181.124.168 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 00:13:39 -0400 Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 21:13:39 -0700 (GMT-07:00) To: Jim Franklin Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks From: Brian Kemp via Shop-talk Cc: Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============4126272005030020310== Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Try a search for "concrete trailer" or call some local con= crete companies.  If you can drive a pickup or SUV near the footings, = one of these might be the way to go.  An explanation is at https://www= .sepulveda.com/product_families/concrete_to_go/concrete_to_go.php
=
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Franklin via Shop-talk
Sent: Apr 16, 2020 7:44 PM
To: PJ McGarvey
Cc: Shop-talk
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks

Yep, 18" is spot on per the beam and joist spacing, but the pre-cast = footer only comes in 22". 

Getting the concrete to the location will be difficult. The house = is up a 100' inclined driveway that won't support a full sized truck, and t= he then another 100' around back to the site. Even a pumper would need a lo= t of hose. Are there smaller/lighter site-mix trucks now? I suppose they co= uld pump it to the top of the driveway and wheelbarrow it around back...

On Apr 16, 2020, at 10:15 PM, PJ McGarvey <pj_mcgarvey@hotmail.co= m> wrote:

I doubt you= 'll need more than 18" diameter footings for a deck. 

In any case, I wo= uld pay a bit more for concrete delivery. I did this in November for a 16'x= 16' screened porch I'm almost finished with. For that diameter and depth, t= hat's alot of concrete to mix correctly. In an hour you can have it deliver= ed, poured, and save alot of hassle. 

= From: S= hop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Pa= t Horne via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thurs= day, April 16, 2020 7:14 PM
To: Jim Franklin <jamesf@groupwbench.org= >
Cc: Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: = ;Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks
=  
24=E2=80=9D diameter hole is pretty large. I had 24=E2=80= =9D piers drilled by a company. They brought a large drill truck. I had 3 p= iers drilled 25=E2=80=99 deep, including bell bottoms. Cost was $800. Only = reason I brought this up is it might not be that much over the cost of the = skid steer to have someone else drill them. 

Peace,
Pat
Pat Horne=  
We support Habitat for Humanity
<= br class=3D"">
> On Apr 16, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Jim Franklin= via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
>=  

=EF=BB=BFHaving decided it's better to build a nice ornate deck out o= f PT than a small simple deck of of fancy materials, I'm looking at the fou= ndation. Frost line here is 48" and I need 18" footings. I have found 3 opt= ions and I'm wondering if I missed anything:

1= . Traditional concrete with forms and sonotubes
2. Pre-cast f= ootings (22", 100 lbs)  and stackable piers (EZ-Tube)
3.= Helical piles 

I haven't heard back from the town on that last one an= d they're the priciest at $275 per. The pre-cast are $150 per. Concrete wil= l require hauling about 45,000 bags into the backyard. 

I'm leaning tow= ards #2 . I don't own any yard equipment but I can rent a skid steer with a= uger, though not a 24" auger I don't think.

th= anks,
jim
_____________________________________= __________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.= team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.= 96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/opti= ons/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.com

______= _________________________________________

Shop-t= alk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggest= ed annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk=  http://autox.team.net/ar= chive

Unsubscribe/Manage: htt= p://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_mcgarvey@hotmail.com

<= /blockquote>
--===============4126272005030020310== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============4126272005030020310==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 22 13:45:46 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 894B8A1194 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 13:45:46 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (unknown [217.70.183.196]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72C55A1273 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 13:36:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.135] (c-73-253-103-15.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [73.253.103.15]) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 07821E0008; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 19:36:41 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:36:39 -0400 To: Brian Kemp References: <307355996.13111.1587528820860@wamui-cheeto.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks From: Jim Franklin via Shop-talk Cc: Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3151129821528373622== boundary="Apple-Mail=_9F029FD3-31AC-4525-B2FA-290488CC5259" --Apple-Mail=_9F029FD3-31AC-4525-B2FA-290488CC5259 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 I found a "loophole" in the code. If the deck is freestanding and under = 30" high, it doesn't need to be at the frost line. I found these = anchored surface footings that might do quite well: https://shop.titanbuildingproducts.com/deck-foot.php = The only issue is that the new deck with be 4 steps down from the one = anchored to the house, so the connection between the two needs to be = fluid, which means one end of the stairs needs to float. I'm trying to = come up with a design where the risers adjust as the lower deck rises = and falls with frost, and the riser heights stay equidistant from each = other, but I'm not getting there. Maybe I build a ramp instead... jim > On Apr 22, 2020, at 12:13 AM, Brian Kemp wrote: >=20 > Try a search for "concrete trailer" or call some local concrete = companies. If you can drive a pickup or SUV near the footings, one of = these might be the way to go. An explanation is at = https://www.sepulveda.com/product_families/concrete_to_go/concrete_to_go.p= hp = =20 >=20 > Brian > -----Original Message-----=20 > From: Jim Franklin via Shop-talk=20 > Sent: Apr 16, 2020 7:44 PM=20 > To: PJ McGarvey=20 > Cc: Shop-talk=20 > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks=20 >=20 > Yep, 18" is spot on per the beam and joist spacing, but the pre-cast = footer only comes in 22".=20 >=20 > Getting the concrete to the location will be difficult. The house is = up a 100' inclined driveway that won't support a full sized truck, and = the then another 100' around back to the site. Even a pumper would need = a lot of hose. Are there smaller/lighter site-mix trucks now? I suppose = they could pump it to the top of the driveway and wheelbarrow it around = back... >=20 >> On Apr 16, 2020, at 10:15 PM, PJ McGarvey >=20 >> I doubt you'll need more than 18" diameter footings for a deck.=20 >>=20 >> In any case, I would pay a bit more for concrete delivery. I did this = in November for a 16'x16' screened porch I'm almost finished with. For = that diameter and depth, that's alot of concrete to mix correctly. In an = hour you can have it delivered, poured, and save alot of hassle.=20 >>=20 >> From: Shop-talk > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2020 7:14 PM >> To: Jim Franklin > Cc: Shop-talk > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks >> =20 >> 24=E2=80=9D diameter hole is pretty large. I had 24=E2=80=9D piers = drilled by a company. They brought a large drill truck. I had 3 piers = drilled 25=E2=80=99 deep, including bell bottoms. Cost was $800. Only = reason I brought this up is it might not be that much over the cost of = the skid steer to have someone else drill them.=20 >>=20 >> Peace, >> Pat >>=20 >> Pat Horne=20 >> We support Habitat for Humanity >>=20 >>=20 >> > On Apr 16, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Jim Franklin via Shop-talk = >> >=20 >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BFHaving decided it's better to build a nice ornate deck out = of PT than a small simple deck of of fancy materials, I'm looking at the = foundation. Frost line here is 48" and I need 18" footings. I have found = 3 options and I'm wondering if I missed anything: >>=20 >> 1. Traditional concrete with forms and sonotubes >> 2. Pre-cast footings (22", 100 lbs) and stackable piers (EZ-Tube) >> 3. Helical piles=20 >>=20 >> I haven't heard back from the town on that last one and they're the = priciest at $275 per. The pre-cast are $150 per. Concrete will require = hauling about 45,000 bags into the backyard.=20 >>=20 >> I'm leaning towards #2 . I don't own any yard equipment but I can = rent a skid steer with auger, though not a 24" auger I don't think. >>=20 >> thanks, >> jim >> _______________________________________________ >>=20 >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html = >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive = >>=20 >> Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.com = >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >>=20 >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html = >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive = >>=20 >> Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_mcgarvey@hotmail.com = --Apple-Mail=_9F029FD3-31AC-4525-B2FA-290488CC5259 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 I = found a "loophole" in the code. If the deck is freestanding and under = 30" high, it doesn't need to be at the frost line. I found these = anchored surface footings that might do quite well:

https://shop.titanbuildingproducts.com/deck-foot.php
<= div class=3D"">
The only issue is = that the new deck with be 4 steps down from the one anchored to the = house, so the connection between the two needs to be fluid, which means = one end of the stairs needs to float. I'm trying to come up with a = design where the risers adjust as the lower deck rises and falls with = frost, and the riser heights stay equidistant from each other, but I'm = not getting there. Maybe I build a ramp instead...

jim



On Apr = 22, 2020, at 12:13 AM, Brian Kemp <bk13@earthlink.net> = wrote:

Try a search for "concrete trailer" or call some local = concrete companies.  If you can drive a pickup or SUV near the = footings, one of these might be the way to go.  An explanation is = at https://www.sepulveda.com/product_families/concrete_to_go/concr= ete_to_go.php 

Brian
-----Original Message----- 
From: Jim = Franklin via Shop-talk 
Sent: Apr 16, 2020 7:44 PM 
To: PJ = McGarvey 
Cc: Shop-talk 
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers = for decks 

Yep, 18" is spot on per the beam and joist = spacing, but the pre-cast footer only comes in 22". 

Getting the concrete to the location will be = difficult. The house is up a 100' inclined driveway that won't support a = full sized truck, and the then another 100' around back to the site. = Even a pumper would need a lot of hose. Are there smaller/lighter = site-mix trucks now? I suppose they could pump it to the top of the = driveway and wheelbarrow it around back...

On Apr 16, 2020, at = 10:15 PM, PJ McGarvey <pj_mcgarvey@hotmail.com> wrote:

I doubt you'll need = more than 18" diameter footings for a deck. 

In = any case, I would pay a bit more for concrete delivery. I did this in = November for a 16'x16' screened porch I'm almost finished with. For that = diameter and depth, that's alot of concrete to mix correctly. In an hour = you can have it delivered, poured, and save alot of = hassle. 

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Pat = Horne via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2020 = 7:14 PM
To: Jim Franklin <jamesf@groupwbench.org>
Cc: Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings = and piers for decks
 
24=E2=80=9D diameter hole is = pretty large. I had 24=E2=80=9D piers drilled by a company. They brought = a large drill truck. I had 3 piers drilled 25=E2=80=99 deep, including = bell bottoms. Cost was $800. Only reason I brought this up is it might = not be that much over the cost of the skid steer to have someone else = drill them. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity


> On Apr 16, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Jim Franklin = via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
> 

=EF=BB=BFHaving decided it's better to build a nice ornate = deck out of PT than a small simple deck of of fancy materials, I'm = looking at the foundation. Frost line here is 48" and I need 18" = footings. I have found 3 options and I'm wondering if I missed = anything:

1. Traditional concrete with = forms and sonotubes
2. Pre-cast footings (22", 100 = lbs)  and stackable piers (EZ-Tube)
3. Helical = piles 
I haven't heard back from the town on that last one and = they're the priciest at $275 per. The pre-cast are $150 per. Concrete = will require hauling about 45,000 bags into the backyard. 

I'm leaning towards #2 . I don't own any yard equipment but I = can rent a skid steer with auger, though not a 24" auger I don't = think.

thanks,
jim
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested = annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@iclo= ud.com

_______________________________________________

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= --Apple-Mail=_9F029FD3-31AC-4525-B2FA-290488CC5259-- --===============3151129821528373622== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3151129821528373622==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 22 14:16:18 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F188AA14CE for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:16:17 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from relay12.mail.gandi.net (unknown [217.70.178.232]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D804FA1498 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:16:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.135] (c-73-253-103-15.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [73.253.103.15]) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by relay12.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8159F200003 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 20:16:10 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 16:16:07 -0400 References: <82E99FF9-3BF0-4C4E-9D4B-9A49AB25142D@groupwbench.org> <46E097C4-F22E-460A-AE01-6CFB157E9F77@icloud.com> To: Shop-talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks From: Jim Franklin via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8890249140022950137== boundary="Apple-Mail=_00555635-458F-4E6E-B2E9-93789CBCABB7" --Apple-Mail=_00555635-458F-4E6E-B2E9-93789CBCABB7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 The image came through but I couldn't get enough from it to understand = how they work. I'd be interested in the design from an intellectual = standpoint but having done a bit of reading on this now, it seems the = amount of rise from frost would cause minimal change in angle of the = treads (code allows for 1/4" per foot) and that using a regular wood = stringer, attached by a hinge at the top, would be well within that = threshold. thanks, jim > On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:03 PM, Pat Horne wrote: >=20 > Jim, I haves design that will work for your steps. I have a set of = stairs that came from a local airport. They are the stairs that go from = the jet way, right at the plane to the tarmac. They have to allow for = different height planes while keeping the stair treads level. I=E2=80=99ll= draw up a rough drawing for you if you like. I=E2=80=99ll also attach a = photo to this email but I think it will be stripped.=20 >=20 > Peace, > Pat >=20 > >=20 > Pat Horne=20 > We support Habitat for Humanity >=20 >=20 >> On Apr 22, 2020, at 2:46 PM, Jim Franklin via Shop-talk = wrote: >>=20 >=20 > =EF=BB=BFI found a "loophole" in the code. If the deck is freestanding = and under 30" high, it doesn't need to be at the frost line. I found = these anchored surface footings that might do quite well: >=20 > https://shop.titanbuildingproducts.com/deck-foot.php = >=20 > The only issue is that the new deck with be 4 steps down from the one = anchored to the house, so the connection between the two needs to be = fluid, which means one end of the stairs needs to float. I'm trying to = come up with a design where the risers adjust as the lower deck rises = and falls with frost, and the riser heights stay equidistant from each = other, but I'm not getting there. Maybe I build a ramp instead... >=20 > jim >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Apr 22, 2020, at 12:13 AM, Brian Kemp >=20 >> Try a search for "concrete trailer" or call some local concrete = companies. If you can drive a pickup or SUV near the footings, one of = these might be the way to go. An explanation is at = https://www.sepulveda.com/product_families/concrete_to_go/concrete_to_go.p= hp = =20 >>=20 >> Brian >> -----Original Message-----=20 >> From: Jim Franklin via Shop-talk=20 >> Sent: Apr 16, 2020 7:44 PM=20 >> To: PJ McGarvey=20 >> Cc: Shop-talk=20 >> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks=20 >>=20 >> Yep, 18" is spot on per the beam and joist spacing, but the pre-cast = footer only comes in 22".=20 >>=20 >> Getting the concrete to the location will be difficult. The house is = up a 100' inclined driveway that won't support a full sized truck, and = the then another 100' around back to the site. Even a pumper would need = a lot of hose. Are there smaller/lighter site-mix trucks now? I suppose = they could pump it to the top of the driveway and wheelbarrow it around = back... >>=20 >>> On Apr 16, 2020, at 10:15 PM, PJ McGarvey >>=20 >>> I doubt you'll need more than 18" diameter footings for a deck.=20 >>>=20 >>> In any case, I would pay a bit more for concrete delivery. I did = this in November for a 16'x16' screened porch I'm almost finished with. = For that diameter and depth, that's alot of concrete to mix correctly. = In an hour you can have it delivered, poured, and save alot of hassle.=20= >>>=20 >>> From: Shop-talk >> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2020 7:14 PM >>> To: Jim Franklin >> Cc: Shop-talk >> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks >>> =20 >>> 24=E2=80=9D diameter hole is pretty large. I had 24=E2=80=9D piers = drilled by a company. They brought a large drill truck. I had 3 piers = drilled 25=E2=80=99 deep, including bell bottoms. Cost was $800. Only = reason I brought this up is it might not be that much over the cost of = the skid steer to have someone else drill them.=20 >>>=20 >>> Peace, >>> Pat >>>=20 >>> Pat Horne=20 >>> We support Habitat for Humanity >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> > On Apr 16, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Jim Franklin via Shop-talk = >>> >=20 >>>=20 >>> =EF=BB=BFHaving decided it's better to build a nice ornate deck out = of PT than a small simple deck of of fancy materials, I'm looking at the = foundation. Frost line here is 48" and I need 18" footings. I have found = 3 options and I'm wondering if I missed anything: >>>=20 >>> 1. Traditional concrete with forms and sonotubes >>> 2. Pre-cast footings (22", 100 lbs) and stackable piers (EZ-Tube) >>> 3. Helical piles=20 >>>=20 >>> I haven't heard back from the town on that last one and they're the = priciest at $275 per. The pre-cast are $150 per. Concrete will require = hauling about 45,000 bags into the backyard.=20 >>>=20 >>> I'm leaning towards #2 . I don't own any yard equipment but I can = rent a skid steer with auger, though not a 24" auger I don't think. >>>=20 >>> thanks, >>> jim >>> _______________________________________________ >>>=20 >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html = >>> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive = >>>=20 >>> Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.com = >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>>=20 >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html = >>> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive = >>>=20 >>> Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_mcgarvey@hotmail.com = > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.com >=20 --Apple-Mail=_00555635-458F-4E6E-B2E9-93789CBCABB7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 The = image came through but I couldn't get enough from it to understand how = they work. I'd be interested in the design from an intellectual = standpoint but having done a bit of reading on this now, it seems the = amount of rise from frost would cause minimal change in angle of the = treads (code allows for 1/4" per foot) and that using a regular wood = stringer, attached by a hinge at the top, would be well within that = threshold.

thanks,
jim

On Apr = 22, 2020, at 4:03 PM, Pat Horne <patintexas@icloud.com> wrote:

Jim, I haves design that will = work for your steps. I have a set of stairs that came from a local = airport. They are the stairs that go from the jet way, right at the = plane to the tarmac. They have to allow for different height planes = while keeping the stair treads level. I=E2=80=99ll draw up a rough = drawing for you if you like. I=E2=80=99ll also attach a photo to this = email but I think it will be stripped. 

Peace,
Pat

<image0.jpeg>=

Pat = Horne 
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Apr 22, 2020, at 2:46 = PM, Jim Franklin via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFI found a "loophole" in the code. If the deck is freestanding = and under 30" high, it doesn't need to be at the frost line. I found = these anchored surface footings that might do quite well:

https://shop.titanbuildingproducts.com/deck-foot.php
<= div class=3D"">
The only issue is = that the new deck with be 4 steps down from the one anchored to the = house, so the connection between the two needs to be fluid, which means = one end of the stairs needs to float. I'm trying to come up with a = design where the risers adjust as the lower deck rises and falls with = frost, and the riser heights stay equidistant from each other, but I'm = not getting there. Maybe I build a ramp instead...

jim



On Apr 22, 2020, at 12:13 AM, Brian Kemp <bk13@earthlink.net> = wrote:

Try a search for "concrete trailer" or call some local = concrete companies.  If you can drive a pickup or SUV near the = footings, one of these might be the way to go.  An explanation is = at https://www.sepulveda.com/product_families/concrete_to_go/concr= ete_to_go.php 

Brian
-----Original Message----- 
From: Jim = Franklin via Shop-talk 
Sent: Apr 16, 2020 7:44 PM 
To: PJ = McGarvey 
Cc: Shop-talk 
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers = for decks 

Yep, 18" is spot on per the beam and joist = spacing, but the pre-cast footer only comes in 22". 

Getting the concrete to the location will be = difficult. The house is up a 100' inclined driveway that won't support a = full sized truck, and the then another 100' around back to the site. = Even a pumper would need a lot of hose. Are there smaller/lighter = site-mix trucks now? I suppose they could pump it to the top of the = driveway and wheelbarrow it around back...

On Apr 16, 2020, at = 10:15 PM, PJ McGarvey <pj_mcgarvey@hotmail.com> wrote:

I doubt you'll need = more than 18" diameter footings for a deck. 

In = any case, I would pay a bit more for concrete delivery. I did this in = November for a 16'x16' screened porch I'm almost finished with. For that = diameter and depth, that's alot of concrete to mix correctly. In an hour = you can have it delivered, poured, and save alot of = hassle. 

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Pat = Horne via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2020 = 7:14 PM
To: Jim Franklin <jamesf@groupwbench.org>
Cc: Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings = and piers for decks
 
24=E2=80=9D diameter hole is = pretty large. I had 24=E2=80=9D piers drilled by a company. They brought = a large drill truck. I had 3 piers drilled 25=E2=80=99 deep, including = bell bottoms. Cost was $800. Only reason I brought this up is it might = not be that much over the cost of the skid steer to have someone else = drill them. 

Peace,
Pat

Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity


> On Apr 16, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Jim Franklin = via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
> 

=EF=BB=BFHaving decided it's better to build a nice ornate = deck out of PT than a small simple deck of of fancy materials, I'm = looking at the foundation. Frost line here is 48" and I need 18" = footings. I have found 3 options and I'm wondering if I missed = anything:

1. Traditional concrete with = forms and sonotubes
2. Pre-cast footings (22", 100 = lbs)  and stackable piers (EZ-Tube)
3. Helical = piles 
I haven't heard back from the town on that last one and = they're the priciest at $275 per. The pre-cast are $150 per. Concrete = will require hauling about 45,000 bags into the backyard. 

I'm leaning towards #2 . I don't own any yard equipment but I = can rent a skid steer with auger, though not a 24" auger I don't = think.

thanks,
jim
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested = annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@iclo= ud.com

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Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested = annual donation  $12.96
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Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_mcgarvey@hot= mail.com

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Suggested annual donation  $12.96
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= --Apple-Mail=_00555635-458F-4E6E-B2E9-93789CBCABB7-- --===============8890249140022950137== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8890249140022950137==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 22 14:26:26 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 010AEA153C for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:26:26 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from ms11p00im-qufo17291201.me.com (unknown [17.58.38.41]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C37A5A14C9 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:26:21 -0600 (MDT) s=1a1hai; t=1587587178; bh=YuNpYfmw7DpSvodn3eWFmmwt0whQZ2uZYcLlbHnNKzk=; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=EVjzdaEAazOI7JfJLGU3GRwE3+7PdiiVXrHJO+5aWWk264amwPWmnBNMuSQPxyytZ YT+ck5ff/PRVTOMQMzIzeRBcaeeQP/gD882MXpxwf9luvAvBhoxeSGH2MPcuW2n8Fg PtnZnoB95g5QtPmnnIi8pUt+mzewaBVXEQr/xftXJwrFA8BNS9IoQTp4LWbafKKFk4 /ZYIftqvxGDMa4qTOj9itmMKcsACDIMN7vlJbkDpVnL/3LWSVyQ+iDvDMQpuoW11l2 E8yXRN++MEjNK0Tay9erv3dTFgjF4NZnex0fib9GVrFS8Jf5OH+xzbsRiexwbtB2k2 vJSa0f+w+LAXA== Received: from [10.171.193.237] (mobile-107-92-56-49.mycingular.net [107.92.56.49]) by ms11p00im-qufo17291201.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ACA80BC0422; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 20:26:18 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:26:17 -0500 References: <059A30D2-0318-489C-B66A-07A30716657F@groupwbench.org> To: Jim Franklin definitions=2020-04-22_07:2020-04-22, 2020-04-22 signatures=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-2002250000 definitions=main-2004220156 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks From: Pat Horne via Shop-talk Cc: Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============5820232993354364447== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-F6085A53-BB05-4A84-9AFD-ED02F605B7F4 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=E2=80=99ll do a drawing. Basically, instead of fixed stringers on the side= s of the stairs, there is a piece on angle iron connecting the front edge of= all the stair treads & another piece of angle connecting all the rear edges= of the treads. These connections are not solid, but allow the treads to rot= ate. The upper ends of the angles are likewise connected to a fixed landing e= xtension of the upper deck. They are attached @ the same distance as the dep= th of the treads. In my case there are wheels that allow the bottom of the s= tairs to move around.=20 Picture to follow.=20 Pat Horne=20 We support Habitat for Humanity > On Apr 22, 2020, at 3:16 PM, Jim Franklin via Shop-talk wrote: >=20 =EF=BB=BFThe image came through but I couldn't get enough from it to underst= and how they work. I'd be interested in the design from an intellectual stan= dpoint but having done a bit of reading on this now, it seems the amount of r= ise from frost would cause minimal change in angle of the treads (code allow= s for 1/4" per foot) and that using a regular wood stringer, attached by a h= inge at the top, would be well within that threshold. thanks, jim > On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:03 PM, Pat Horne wrote: >=20 > Jim, I haves design that will work for your steps. I have a set of stairs t= hat came from a local airport. They are the stairs that go from the jet way,= right at the plane to the tarmac. They have to allow for different height p= lanes while keeping the stair treads level. I=E2=80=99ll draw up a rough dra= wing for you if you like. I=E2=80=99ll also attach a photo to this email but= I think it will be stripped.=20 >=20 > Peace, > Pat >=20 > >=20 > Pat Horne=20 > We support Habitat for Humanity >=20 >=20 >> On Apr 22, 2020, at 2:46 PM, Jim Franklin via Shop-talk wrote: >>=20 >=20 > =EF=BB=BFI found a "loophole" in the code. If the deck is freestanding and= under 30" high, it doesn't need to be at the frost line. I found these anch= ored surface footings that might do quite well: >=20 > https://shop.titanbuildingproducts.com/deck-foot.php >=20 > The only issue is that the new deck with be 4 steps down from the one anch= ored to the house, so the connection between the two needs to be fluid, whic= h means one end of the stairs needs to float. I'm trying to come up with a d= esign where the risers adjust as the lower deck rises and falls with frost, a= nd the riser heights stay equidistant from each other, but I'm not getting t= here. Maybe I build a ramp instead... >=20 > jim >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Apr 22, 2020, at 12:13 AM, Brian Kemp wrote: >>=20 >> Try a search for "concrete trailer" or call some local concrete companies= . If you can drive a pickup or SUV near the footings, one of these might be= the way to go. An explanation is at https://www.sepulveda.com/product_fami= lies/concrete_to_go/concrete_to_go.php=20 >>=20 >> Brian >> -----Original Message-----=20 >> From: Jim Franklin via Shop-talk=20 >> Sent: Apr 16, 2020 7:44 PM=20 >> To: PJ McGarvey=20 >> Cc: Shop-talk=20 >> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks=20 >>=20 >> Yep, 18" is spot on per the beam and joist spacing, but the pre-cast foot= er only comes in 22".=20 >>=20 >> Getting the concrete to the location will be difficult. The house is up a= 100' inclined driveway that won't support a full sized truck, and the then a= nother 100' around back to the site. Even a pumper would need a lot of hose.= Are there smaller/lighter site-mix trucks now? I suppose they could pump it= to the top of the driveway and wheelbarrow it around back... >>=20 >>> On Apr 16, 2020, at 10:15 PM, PJ McGarvey wrot= e: >>>=20 >>> I doubt you'll need more than 18" diameter footings for a deck.=20 >>>=20 >>> In any case, I would pay a bit more for concrete delivery. I did this in= November for a 16'x16' screened porch I'm almost finished with. For that di= ameter and depth, that's alot of concrete to mix correctly. In an hour you c= an have it delivered, poured, and save alot of hassle.=20 >>>=20 >>> From: Shop-talk on behalf of Pat Horn= e via Shop-talk >>> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2020 7:14 PM >>> To: Jim Franklin >>> Cc: Shop-talk >>> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks >>> =20 >>> 24=E2=80=9D diameter hole is pretty large. I had 24=E2=80=9D piers drill= ed by a company. They brought a large drill truck. I had 3 piers drilled 25=E2= =80=99 deep, including bell bottoms. Cost was $800. Only reason I brought th= is up is it might not be that much over the cost of the skid steer to have s= omeone else drill them.=20 >>>=20 >>> Peace, >>> Pat >>>=20 >>> Pat Horne=20 >>> We support Habitat for Humanity >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> > On Apr 16, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Jim Franklin via Shop-talk wrote: >>> >=20 >>>=20 >>> =EF=BB=BFHaving decided it's better to build a nice ornate deck out of P= T than a small simple deck of of fancy materials, I'm looking at the foundat= ion. Frost line here is 48" and I need 18" footings. I have found 3 options a= nd I'm wondering if I missed anything: >>>=20 >>> 1. Traditional concrete with forms and sonotubes >>> 2. Pre-cast footings (22", 100 lbs) and stackable piers (EZ-Tube) >>> 3. Helical piles=20 >>>=20 >>> I haven't heard back from the town on that last one and they're the pric= iest at $275 per. The pre-cast are $150 per. Concrete will require hauling a= bout 45,000 bags into the backyard.=20 >>>=20 >>> I'm leaning towards #2 . I don't own any yard equipment but I can rent a= skid steer with auger, though not a 24" auger I don't think. >>>=20 >>> thanks, >>> jim >>> _______________________________________________ >>>=20 >>> Shop-talk@autox.team.net >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/a= rchive >>>=20 >>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pati= ntexas@icloud.com >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>>=20 >>> Shop-talk@autox.team.net >>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >>> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/a= rchive >>>=20 >>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_m= cgarvey@hotmail.com >=20 > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arc= hive >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patint= exas@icloud.com >=20 _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi= ve as@icloud.com --Apple-Mail-F6085A53-BB05-4A84-9AFD-ED02F605B7F4 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=E2=80=99ll do a drawing. Basically, inste= ad of fixed stringers on the sides of the stairs, there is a piece on angle i= ron connecting the front edge of all the stair treads & another piece of= angle connecting all the rear edges of the treads. These connections are no= t solid, but allow the treads to rotate. The upper ends of the angles are li= kewise connected to a fixed landing extension of the upper deck. They are at= tached @ the same distance as the depth of the treads. In my case there are w= heels that allow the bottom of the stairs to move around. 

Picture to follow. 

Pat Horne 
= We support Habitat for Humanity

<= br>
On Apr 22, 2020, at 3:16 PM, Jim Franklin via S= hop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:

<= div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BFThe image came through but I couldn't get enough from i= t to understand how they work. I'd be interested in the design from an intel= lectual standpoint but having done a bit of reading on this now, it seems th= e amount of rise from frost would cause minimal change in angle of the tread= s (code allows for 1/4" per foot) and that using a regular wood stringer, at= tached by a hinge at the top, would be well within that threshold.

thanks,
jim

On Apr 22, 2020, at 4= :03 PM, Pat Horne <pa= tintexas@icloud.com> wrote:

Jim, I haves design t= hat will work for your steps. I have a set of stairs that came from a local a= irport. They are the stairs that go from the jet way, right at the plane to t= he tarmac. They have to allow for different height planes while keeping the s= tair treads level. I=E2=80=99ll draw up a rough drawing for you if you like.= I=E2=80=99ll also attach a photo to this email but I think it will be strip= ped. 

Peace,
<= div class=3D"">Pat

<image0.jpeg>

Pat Horne&nbs= p;
We support Habitat for Humanity


On Apr 22, 2020, at 2:46 PM, Jim Franklin via Shop= -talk <shop-talk@a= utox.team.net> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFI found a "loophole" in the co= de. If the deck is freestanding and under 30" high, it doesn't need to be at= the frost line. I found these anchored surface footings that might do quite= well:

https://shop.tita= nbuildingproducts.com/deck-foot.php

The only issue is that the new deck with be 4= steps down from the one anchored to the house, so the connection between th= e two needs to be fluid, which means one end of the stairs needs to float. I= 'm trying to come up with a design where the risers adjust as the lower deck= rises and falls with frost, and the riser heights stay equidistant from eac= h other, but I'm not getting there. Maybe I build a ramp instead...

jim


=
On Apr 2= 2, 2020, at 12:13 AM, Brian Kemp <bk13@earthlink.net> wrote:

Try a search for "concrete trailer" or call some local concrete com= panies.  If you can drive a pickup or SUV near the footings, one of the= se might be the way to go.  An explanation is at https://www.sepulveda.co= m/product_families/concrete_to_go/concrete_to_go.php 

Brian
-----Original Mes= sage----- 
From:= Jim Franklin via Shop-talk 
Sent: Apr 16, 2020 7:4= 4 PM 
To: PJ= McGarvey 
Cc: Shop-talk 
S= ubject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks 

Yep, 18" is spot on= per the beam and joist spacing, but the pre-cast footer only comes in 22".&= nbsp;

Getting the concrete to the location will be diffi= cult. The house is up a 100' inclined driveway that won't support a full siz= ed truck, and the then another 100' around back to the site. Even a pumper w= ould need a lot of hose. Are there smaller/lighter site-mix trucks now? I su= ppose they could pump it to the top of the driveway and wheelbarrow it aroun= d back...

pj_mcgarvey@hotmail.com> w= rote:

I doubt you'll need more than 18" diameter footings for a deck. = ;

In any case, I would pay a bit more for concrete delivery. I= did this in November for a 16'x16' screened porch I'm almost finished with.= For that diameter and depth, that's alot of concrete to mix correctly. In a= n hour you can have it delivered, poured, and save alot of hassle. 

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@au= tox.team.net> on behalf of Pat Horne via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.t= eam.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2020 7:14 PM
<= b class=3D"">To: Jim Fra= nklin <jamesf@groupwbench.org>
Cc: Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.= net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks
 
24=E2=80=9D diameter hole is pretty large. I had 24=E2=80=9D pie= rs drilled by a company. They brought a large drill truck. I had 3 piers dri= lled 25=E2=80=99 deep, including bell bottoms. Cost was $800. Only reason I b= rought this up is it might not be that much over the cost of the skid steer t= o have someone else drill them. <= /span>

Peace,
Pat
<= br class=3D"">Pat Horne We support Habitat for Humanity

> On Apr 16, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Jim Franklin via Shop-talk &l= t;s= hop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
> 

=EF=BB=BFHavin= g decided it's better to build a nice ornate deck out of PT than a small sim= ple deck of of fancy materials, I'm looking at the foundation. Frost line he= re is 48" and I need 18" footings. I have found 3 options and I'm wondering i= f I missed anything:

1. Traditional concrete wi= th forms and sonotubes
2. Pre-cast footings (22", 100 lbs)&nbs= p; and stackable piers (EZ-Tube)
3. Helical piles 

I haven't= heard back from the town on that last one and they're the priciest at $275 p= er. The pre-cast are $150 per. Concrete will require hauling about 45,000 ba= gs into the backyard. 

I'm leaning towards #2 . I don't own any yard equip= ment but I can rent a skid steer with auger, though not a 24" auger I don't t= hink.

thanks,
jim
_= ______________________________________________

= Sho= p-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggest= ed annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive=

Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.= team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patintexas@icloud.com
<= br class=3D"">_______________________________________________
=
Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/piperma= il/shop-talk http://autox.t= eam.net/archive

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=

_= ______________________________________________

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Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
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_______________= ________________________________

Shop-talk@= autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96
Archive: h= ttp://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive<= br>
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= --Apple-Mail-F6085A53-BB05-4A84-9AFD-ED02F605B7F4-- --===============5820232993354364447== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============5820232993354364447==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 22 17:14:02 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3F0AA129E for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 17:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from ms11p00im-qufo17281501.me.com (unknown [17.58.38.52]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77F27A1486 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:03:28 -0600 (MDT) s=1a1hai; t=1587585805; bh=Lq6kDjO7qgO93ITENrULozsoQB3nchBJ+rwZk+yq9Ew=; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=L+kTFR9yq/9jUgiD8U+SFm0ou8osN6uTl1Vp+g5Rco4VeG0aYZeBTQwIVhRY1rasF fR0EiQ429TUENrXjvIPvKw/C+SAkRzWTbzTurz3uLOFjX8rsXix1SmxDNGmweVTKCw mLANnncwBc0fe2V9svk39mMYiOOrVIsmPhyLyLG+xXrNIt5UE6p9LSor/zgw0rUWuH r1F7eRNCttMT93NNxs4Ow2uLyvvIJMQ5MlWzPYjbVKwSr1PBHYWNSFHsV0xi6Dd4sn iIfGo+95sI6WmRb/dUFfwD4mkhNctx6F19m8zPW7OP5+wns0AHTExw5KqgHNGNaipa E6P/D6pNOizOA== Received: from [10.171.193.237] (mobile-107-92-56-49.mycingular.net [107.92.56.49]) by ms11p00im-qufo17281501.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B2941B40450; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 20:03:22 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:03:20 -0500 References: <82E99FF9-3BF0-4C4E-9D4B-9A49AB25142D@groupwbench.org> To: Jim Franklin definitions=2020-04-22_06:2020-04-22, 2020-04-22 signatures=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-2002250000 definitions=main-2004220152 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks From: Pat Horne via Shop-talk Cc: Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0287492558694379747== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-C773F0CA-57DB-4310-BB07-B29ADE1F7D52 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, I haves design that will work for your steps. I have a set of stairs th= at came from a local airport. They are the stairs that go from the jet way, r= ight at the plane to the tarmac. They have to allow for different height pla= nes while keeping the stair treads level. I=E2=80=99ll draw up a rough drawi= ng for you if you like. I=E2=80=99ll also attach a photo to this email but I= think it will be stripped.=20 Peace, Pat Pat Horne=20 We support Habitat for Humanity > On Apr 22, 2020, at 2:46 PM, Jim Franklin via Shop-talk wrote: >=20 =EF=BB=BFI found a "loophole" in the code. If the deck is freestanding and u= nder 30" high, it doesn't need to be at the frost line. I found these anchor= ed surface footings that might do quite well: https://shop.titanbuildingproducts.com/deck-foot.php The only issue is that the new deck with be 4 steps down from the one anchor= ed to the house, so the connection between the two needs to be fluid, which m= eans one end of the stairs needs to float. I'm trying to come up with a desi= gn where the risers adjust as the lower deck rises and falls with frost, and= the riser heights stay equidistant from each other, but I'm not getting the= re. Maybe I build a ramp instead... jim > On Apr 22, 2020, at 12:13 AM, Brian Kemp wrote: >=20 > Try a search for "concrete trailer" or call some local concrete companies.= If you can drive a pickup or SUV near the footings, one of these might be t= he way to go. An explanation is at https://www.sepulveda.com/product_famili= es/concrete_to_go/concrete_to_go.php=20 >=20 > Brian > -----Original Message-----=20 > From: Jim Franklin via Shop-talk=20 > Sent: Apr 16, 2020 7:44 PM=20 > To: PJ McGarvey=20 > Cc: Shop-talk=20 > Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks=20 >=20 > Yep, 18" is spot on per the beam and joist spacing, but the pre-cast foote= r only comes in 22".=20 >=20 > Getting the concrete to the location will be difficult. The house is up a 1= 00' inclined driveway that won't support a full sized truck, and the then an= other 100' around back to the site. Even a pumper would need a lot of hose. A= re there smaller/lighter site-mix trucks now? I suppose they could pump it t= o the top of the driveway and wheelbarrow it around back... >=20 >> On Apr 16, 2020, at 10:15 PM, PJ McGarvey wrote= : >>=20 >> I doubt you'll need more than 18" diameter footings for a deck.=20 >>=20 >> In any case, I would pay a bit more for concrete delivery. I did this in N= ovember for a 16'x16' screened porch I'm almost finished with. For that diam= eter and depth, that's alot of concrete to mix correctly. In an hour you can= have it delivered, poured, and save alot of hassle.=20 >>=20 >> From: Shop-talk on behalf of Pat Horne= via Shop-talk >> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2020 7:14 PM >> To: Jim Franklin >> Cc: Shop-talk >> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers for decks >> =20 >> 24=E2=80=9D diameter hole is pretty large. I had 24=E2=80=9D piers drille= d by a company. They brought a large drill truck. I had 3 piers drilled 25=E2= =80=99 deep, including bell bottoms. Cost was $800. Only reason I brought th= is up is it might not be that much over the cost of the skid steer to have s= omeone else drill them.=20 >>=20 >> Peace, >> Pat >>=20 >> Pat Horne=20 >> We support Habitat for Humanity >>=20 >>=20 >> > On Apr 16, 2020, at 1:13 PM, Jim Franklin via Shop-talk wrote: >> >=20 >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BFHaving decided it's better to build a nice ornate deck out of PT= than a small simple deck of of fancy materials, I'm looking at the foundati= on. Frost line here is 48" and I need 18" footings. I have found 3 options a= nd I'm wondering if I missed anything: >>=20 >> 1. Traditional concrete with forms and sonotubes >> 2. Pre-cast footings (22", 100 lbs) and stackable piers (EZ-Tube) >> 3. Helical piles=20 >>=20 >> I haven't heard back from the town on that last one and they're the prici= est at $275 per. The pre-cast are $150 per. Concrete will require hauling ab= out 45,000 bags into the backyard.=20 >>=20 >> I'm leaning towards #2 . I don't own any yard equipment but I can rent a s= kid steer with auger, though not a 24" auger I don't think. >>=20 >> thanks, >> jim >> _______________________________________________ >>=20 >> Shop-talk@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/ar= chive >>=20 >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/patin= texas@icloud.com >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >>=20 >> Shop-talk@autox.team.net >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/ar= chive >>=20 >> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/pj_mc= garvey@hotmail.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archi= ve as@icloud.com --Apple-Mail-C773F0CA-57DB-4310-BB07-B29ADE1F7D52 type="text/html"; boundary=Apple-Mail-A2D2B1A0-83F5-4539-9007-FFD0D7383DD4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-A2D2B1A0-83F5-4539-9007-FFD0D7383DD4 charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, I haves design that will work for your= steps. I have a set of stairs that came from a local airport. They are the s= tairs that go from the jet way, right at the plane to the tarmac. They have t= o allow for different height planes while keeping the stair treads level. I=E2= =80=99ll draw up a rough drawing for you if you like. I=E2=80=99ll also atta= ch a photo to this email but I think it will be stripped. 

Peace,
Pat



Pat Horne 
= We support Habitat for Humanity

<= br>
On Apr 22, 2020, at 2:46 PM, Jim Franklin via S= hop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:

<= div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BFI found a "loophole" in the code. If the deck is frees= tanding and under 30" high, it doesn't need to be at the frost line. I found= these anchored surface footings that might do quite well:
https://shop.titanbuildingproducts.com/de= ck-foot.php

Th= e only issue is that the new deck with be 4 steps down from the one anchored= to the house, so the connection between the two needs to be fluid, which me= ans one end of the stairs needs to float. I'm trying to come up with a desig= n where the risers adjust as the lower deck rises and falls with frost, and t= he riser heights stay equidistant from each other, but I'm not getting there= . Maybe I build a ramp instead...

=
jim



On Apr 22, 2020, at 12:13 AM, Brian Kemp <bk13@earthlink.net> wrote:
Try a search for "concrete trailer" o= r call some local concrete companies.  If you can drive a pickup or SUV= near the footings, one of these might be the way to go.  An explanatio= n is at https://www.sepulveda.com/product_families/concrete_to_go/concrete_to_= go.php 
=

Brian
-----Original Message----- 
From: Jim Franklin via Shop-talk Sent: Apr 16, 2020 7:44 PM=  
To: PJ McGarvey 
Cc: Sho= p-talk 
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Footings and piers= for decks 
=
Yep, 18" is spot on per the beam and joist spacing, but the p= re-cast footer only comes in 22". 
Getting the co= ncrete to the location will be difficult. The house is up a 100' inclined dr= iveway that won't support a full sized truck, and the then another 100' arou= nd back to the site. Even a pumper would need a lot of hose. Are there small= er/lighter site-mix trucks now? I suppose they could pump it to the top of t= he driveway and wheelbarrow it around back...

<= div class=3D"" style=3D"margin: 0px;">On Apr 16, 2020, at 10:15 PM, PJ McGar= vey <pj_mcgarvey@hotmail.com> wrote:

I doubt you'll need more than 18= " diameter footings for a deck. 

In any case, I would pay a= bit more for concrete delivery. I did this in November for a 16'x16' screen= ed porch I'm almost finished with. For that diameter and depth, that's alot o= f concrete to mix correctly. In an hour you can have it delivered, poured, a= nd save alot of hassle. 

= From: Shop-t= alk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Pat Horne= via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, April= 16, 2020 7:14 PM
To: Jim Franklin <jamesf@groupwbench.org>
Cc: Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-ta= lk] Footings and piers for decks
24=E2=80=9D diameter hole i= s pretty large. I had 24=E2=80=9D piers drilled by a company. They brought a= large drill truck. I had 3 piers drilled 25=E2=80=99 deep, including bell b= ottoms. Cost was $800. Only reason I brought this up is it might not be that= much over the cost of the skid steer to have someone else drill them. 

Pe= ace,
Pat

Pat Horne 
We support Habitat for Hu= manity


> On Apr 16, 2020, at 1= :13 PM, Jim Franklin via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:<= br class=3D"">> 

=EF=BB=BFHaving decided it's better to build a nice o= rnate deck out of PT than a small simple deck of of fancy materials, I'm loo= king at the foundation. Frost line here is 48" and I need 18" footings. I ha= ve found 3 options and I'm wondering if I missed anything:
1. Traditional concrete with forms and sonotubes
2= . Pre-cast footings (22", 100 lbs)  and stackable piers (EZ-Tube)
3. Helical piles =

I haven't heard back from the town on that las= t one and they're the priciest at $275 per. The pre-cast are $150 per. Concr= ete will require hauling about 45,000 bags into the backyard. 

I'm leanin= g towards #2 . I don't own any yard equipment but I can rent a skid steer wi= th auger, though not a 24" auger I don't think.

thanks,
jim
___________________________________= ____________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team= .net/donate.html
Suggested annual donation  $12.96Archive: = http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

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____________________= ___________________________

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(unknown [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 904D8A108E for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 05:46:03 -0600 (MDT) To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net type=4; name=$KeepSent Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:46:02 -0400 04/24/2020 07:46:03 AM, Serialize complete at 04/24/2020 07:46:03 AM Subject: [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question From: eric--- via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============8476613097292652278== This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0040A43F85258554_= Does anyone know of a way to tell if diesel fuel has gone bad? Here is my situation. I have a large diesel fuel tank for my tractors on my property (so I don't have to buy 'over the road' diesel.) The fuel in there has been there a few years. My newest tractor (a small 25hp subcompact) started acting funny. At full throttle, it seems to sputter a little. Could be a fuel problem, but I would love to test the diesel somehow. Or is there a way of looking at the filter on the tractor? Or another test to do? Related follow up, if the fuel is bad, and I have about 50 gals in a 250 tank. Can I just add fresh fuel to it, or do I need to drain out all the bad first? What would be a good bad/good ratio to dilute the bad fuel? Thanks! "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt? --=_alternative 0040A43F85258554_= Does anyone know of a way to tell if diesel fuel has gone bad?

Here is my situation.  I have a large diesel fuel tank for my tractors on my property (so I don't have to buy 'over the road' diesel.)  The fuel in there has been there a few years.

My newest tractor (a small 25hp subcompact) started acting funny.  At full throttle, it seems to sputter a little.

Could be a fuel problem, but I would love to test the diesel somehow. Or is there a way of looking at the filter on the tractor? Or another test to do?

Related follow up, if the fuel is bad, and I have about 50 gals in a 250 tank.  Can I just add fresh fuel to it, or do I need to drain out all the bad first?  What would be a good bad/good ratio to dilute the bad fuel?

Thanks!


"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John Galt? --=_alternative 0040A43F85258554_=-- --===============8476613097292652278== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8476613097292652278==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 24 06:26:23 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46964A0F99 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 06:26:23 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oo1-f44.google.com (unknown [209.85.161.44]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3C87A1068 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 06:16:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-oo1-f44.google.com with SMTP id e18so2054416oot.9 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 05:16:22 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=tVS4FLjtfhcBZsxBrbGJn6BhDzcv7+1d01AIWeY71WE=; b=nio9ActXVeza1c3UPIbqzQFneOPan4bG4uAdM3EziwtRsC4wbTQSwId426A8qdkcmj fzHwBMYui+gQnSj04R1p2wCqePOiUxJhUCKYiXf21zjdyEPeF8YjnSHo9ASjC/8TSFVB O9mZ+Qhu+K4JTs+JtsnYkZhHsuMfzXpQr3E+Te6zZPXAcE/8e0BK6h7WFaYp0k1PHu8W wGAgPMPCbwKKp9MkMSdxS/pcxa7SNDv9KlLoXGH8ZwrjHbsLKqXqgckjxBrbCPnyLoU4 Q3vxpimobEM/azLUTD5TN53FZrI0HCoVr8NMZZbQQu+NzLC1n4tm0WRvYDT8vmuwM8oa Nz/w== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=tVS4FLjtfhcBZsxBrbGJn6BhDzcv7+1d01AIWeY71WE=; b=CYzApRfbpSKD0wRAvcrl1d9/aBucBb3rOEIkt+uOWZkzF6rlPSsjyGbTNm/hF/CR77 qdeE3jXuA24pM3Va/wVwiW14l/426EUGz9jlbetbyxZ1Ts2rK5NKsDQn2JE26TJQeNIG VP2r0LQKqH8U2HOB5OLWbhHd0QbYoo9w6nSyJoD7A3/3J6ndgtjHxpVv4HXKOFLg4iTi 0hw4Jkzo0oo651SM33GyFMKko0MiSO1LFv05Q8B+6B3GW/RjJsyMNxb7cqO39kuOXH4+ AB1A6H2/eed76JnDbki01uRar3XGptkHGVjcVxJTId9jb6lgl2KMLlQhI5CxtK69U3Ol FtUA== Lgkallo+JsqpxxwE9tbH9NfLwYD6w/i5ZzCjGTM7lRq0 Fri, 24 Apr 2020 05:16:22 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:16:10 -0400 To: eric@megageek.com Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question From: Benjamin Zwissler via Shop-talk Cc: Shop-Talk List Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3261695870089528243== --00000000000057e72505a4085562 Diesel fuel goes bad over time. Just like gasoline the fuel is not stable. There are ways to test it but to my knowledge it means sending a sample to a lab. Besides sludge and solids accumulating there's some green mold/fungus that grows in it. They make fuel conditioner with biocide to make it last longer but a "few years" is longer than any of them would say they would protect fuel. Your symptom sounds like a plugged fuel filter. If you don't have a water separator and fuel filter on your tank I'd add those and change the filter on your tractor. Get good filters rated for the lowest particle size you can. Injector tolerances and tiny and even very small particles will cause them to fail. Ag equipment isn't designed to as tight a tolerance as on-highway because they didn't have to meet the strict emissions standards as early, but skimping on filter costs will result in much higher costs in repairs. On of my favorite lines from some Triumph shop manuals starts "It is false economy to reuse (some part I don't remember)" So paraphrasing... "It is false economy to use cheap fuel filters on a diesel engine." Regarding using the old fuel it all depends on how much you want to spend on filters and repairs versus disposing of the $150 worth of diesel you've got in the tank. The rule of thumb is to not have more than six months supply on hand. Older engines will be more tolerant of it than later (last 10-15 years) engines. That's why the guys that were cooking their own biodiesel from french fry oil wanted engines from before the 90s. Ben Zwissler bjzwissler@gmail.com 812-343-5533 Columbus, IN On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:46 AM eric--- via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > Does anyone know of a way to tell if diesel fuel has gone bad? > > Here is my situation. I have a large diesel fuel tank for my tractors on > my property (so I don't have to buy 'over the road' diesel.) The fuel in > there has been there a few years. > > My newest tractor (a small 25hp subcompact) started acting funny. At full > throttle, it seems to sputter a little. > > Could be a fuel problem, but I would love to test the diesel somehow. Or > is there a way of looking at the filter on the tractor? Or another test to > do? > > Related follow up, if the fuel is bad, and I have about 50 gals in a 250 > tank. Can I just add fresh fuel to it, or do I need to drain out all the > bad first? What would be a good bad/good ratio to dilute the bad fuel? > > Thanks! > > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > -Who is John Galt?_______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bjzwissler@gmail.com > > --00000000000057e72505a4085562 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Diesel fuel goes bad over time.=C2=A0 Just like gasoline t= he fuel is not stable.=C2=A0 There are ways to test it but to my knowledge = it means sending a sample to a lab.=C2=A0 Besides sludge and solids accumul= ating there's some green mold/fungus that grows in it.=C2=A0 They make = fuel conditioner with biocide to make it last longer but a "few years&= quot; is longer than any of them would say they would protect fuel. Your sy= mptom sounds like a plugged fuel filter.=C2=A0 If you don't have a wate= r separator and fuel filter on your tank I'd add those and change the f= ilter on your tractor.=C2=A0 Get good filters rated for the lowest particle= size you can.=C2=A0 Injector tolerances and tiny and even very small parti= cles will cause them to fail.=C2=A0 Ag equipment isn't designed to as t= ight a tolerance as on-highway because they didn't have to meet the str= ict emissions standards as early, but skimping on filter costs will result = in much higher costs in repairs.=C2=A0 On of my favorite lines from some Tr= iumph shop manuals starts "It is false economy to reuse (some part I d= on't remember)"=C2=A0 =C2=A0So paraphrasing... "It is false e= conomy to use cheap fuel filters on a diesel engine."

Regarding using the old fuel it all depends on how much you want to spen= d on filters and repairs=C2=A0versus disposing of the $150 worth of diesel = you've got in the tank.=C2=A0 The rule of thumb is to not have more tha= n six months supply on hand.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Older engines will be more toleran= t of it than later (last 10-15 years) engines.=C2=A0 That's why the guy= s that were cooking their own biodiesel from french fry oil wanted engines = from before the 90s.


Ben Zwissler
bjzwissler@gmail.com=
812-343-5533
Columbus, IN


On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:46 AM eric--- via Shop-talk <<= a href=3D"mailto:shop-talk@autox.team.net">shop-talk@autox.team.net>= wrote:
Does anyone know of a way to tell if diesel fuel has gone bad?

Here is my situation.=C2=A0 I have= a large diesel fuel tank for my tractors on my property (so I don't have to buy 'over the road' diesel.) =C2=A0The fuel in there has been th= ere a few years.

My newest tractor (a small 25hp su= bcompact) started acting funny.=C2=A0 At full throttle, it seems to sputter a little.=

Could be a fuel problem, but I wou= ld love to test the diesel somehow. Or is there a way of looking at the filter on the tractor? Or another test to do?

Related follow up, if the fuel is = bad, and I have about 50 gals in a 250 tank.=C2=A0 Can I just add fresh fuel to it, or do I need to drain out all the bad first?=C2=A0 What would be a good bad/good ratio to dilute the bad fuel?

Thanks!


"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a ratio= nal being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John Galt?_______________________________________________
Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/bjzwissler@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox= .team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/bjzwissler@gmail.com

--00000000000057e72505a4085562-- --===============3261695870089528243== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3261695870089528243==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 24 06:51:09 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52EFDA105C for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 06:51:09 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sender4-of-o51.zoho.com (unknown [136.143.188.51]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7AA4A0E4D for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 06:44:58 -0600 (MDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1587732291; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=gIqW/2JKeM0sLWVa9pD+f+Vd4p0nB4p4SqDAFKlp5Ek/srl8ifPMRbW9jZrUIe4b6W9947rnhPK+9ydEXjr9PgNJq93BJlMi6P5moPWiT8PR2XcVGorHP5dphXVivovqOE3nGD8xPn0oySQagjYe1fam1FrvCGvmjTiSI9Kqjqg= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1587732291; h=Content-Type:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To; bh=qV0HAW4g7/dovSAHhX9LU151y9kKJ5drIaiJRYltrSI=; b=aMzqqqS45e7MDqkZprpzUF78MjljATOW01m8I3oON2ZGsariTmiehjDMJrR8qFc+9Geiicu1cCoeTdaVm0Ig3AIrzAcQ4XcyA9ZQvnor+l0Fr7vjjaK0P+685Gng+O82KBR23IdGiRF8B14cIA2LV2qbitLdiVGJ/wMlx0s3re8= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=nick@landform.co.uk; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= s=zoho; d=landform.co.uk; i=nick@landform.co.uk; h=Subject:To:References:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type; bh=qV0HAW4g7/dovSAHhX9LU151y9kKJ5drIaiJRYltrSI=; b=bkLOBv5kRh9gfoxvbqMCiD7cQq6SWLnj7RFpUXaQoh7pbFcybUVAuVOQuVOcC63l N1dVPJ+L9PHJFt0uPlm72rPLOePhOWrzzmGSYoM/pVGV7s0SOcjTj1agPlr41wRXHrH gNMNlfvtj7eqnxcgLZmQJeRcB0NxyEVvnUlSbvds= Received: from [192.168.1.64] (host81-152-35-234.range81-152.btcentralplus.com [81.152.35.234]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1587732289129984.3439125918228; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 05:44:49 -0700 (PDT) To: eric@megageek.com, Shop-talk@autox.team.net References: Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 13:44:46 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question From: nick brearley via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1841796659930064246== boundary="------------8F623CBBBD4413BC015EB972" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8F623CBBBD4413BC015EB972 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Eric, First thing check the tractor fuel filter. If it has a grey mush coating=20 it that's a pointer for poor fuel, or an old filter. If so change the=20 filter as a first step then keep an eye on it regularly. You could fill=20 a transparent jug or jar then let it stand for a few days, see if any=20 water settles out. I use about 500 gallons a year of gas oil (ag diesel) and always put an=20 additive in it: https://fastexocet.co.uk/product/fuel-store-plus/ Modern diesel often has proportion of biodiesel in it leading to=20 problems down the line. Using that additive I've never had a problem.=20 Regarding reviving the fuel the same company also supply a "Fuel=20 Reviver". Never used it but here it is: https://fastexocet.co.uk/product/fuel-reviver/ Like me the company is based in the UK but I'm sure a phone call would=20 answer any questions. Looking at the website you can see they can supply=20 an additive for just about any situation you can think of. They may well=20 sell in the US and I'm sure US made products are available. Ask your=20 diesel supplier. Nick Brearley On 24/04/2020 12:46, eric--- via Shop-talk wrote: > Does anyone know of a way to tell if diesel fuel has gone bad? > > Here is my situation. =A0I have a large diesel fuel tank for my tractors= =20 > on my property (so I don't have to buy 'over the road' diesel.) =A0The=20 > fuel in there has been there a few years. > > My newest tractor (a small 25hp subcompact) started acting funny. =A0At= =20 > full throttle, it seems to sputter a little. > > Could be a fuel problem, but I would love to test the diesel somehow.=20 > Or is there a way of looking at the filter on the tractor? Or another=20 > test to do? > > Related follow up, if the fuel is bad, and I have about 50 gals in a=20 > 250 tank. =A0Can I just add fresh fuel to it, or do I need to drain out= =20 > all the bad first? =A0What would be a good bad/good ratio to dilute the= =20 > bad fuel? > > Thanks! > > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a=20 > rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your=20 > territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson > -Who is John Galt? > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/ar= chive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/nick@= landform.co.uk > --------------8F623CBBBD4413BC015EB972 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Eric,

First thing check the tractor fuel filter. If it has a grey mush coating it that's a pointer for poor fuel, or an old filter. If so change the filter as a first step then keep an eye on it regularly. You could fill a transparent jug or jar then let it stand for a few days, see if any water settles out.

I use about 500 gallons a year of gas oil (ag diesel) and always put an additive in it:

https:= //fastexocet.co.uk/product/fuel-store-plus/

Modern diesel often has proportion of biodiesel in it leading to problems down the line. Using that additive I've never had a problem. Regarding reviving the fuel the same company also supply a "Fuel Reviver". Never used it but here it is:

https://f= astexocet.co.uk/product/fuel-reviver/

Like me the company is based in the UK but I'm sure a phone call would answer any questions. Looking at the website you can see they can supply an additive for just about any situation you can think of. They may well sell in the US and I'm sure US made products are available. Ask your diesel supplier.

Nick Brearley


On 24/04/2020 12:46, eric--- via Shop-talk wrote:
Does anyone know of a way to tel= l if diesel fuel has gone bad?

Here is my situation. =A0I have = a large diesel fuel tank for my tractors on my property (so I don't have to buy 'over the road' diesel.) =A0The fuel in there has been there a few years.

My newest tractor (a small 25hp subcompact) started acting funny. =A0At full throttle, it seems to sputter a little.

Could be a fuel problem, but I would love to test the diesel somehow. Or is there a way of looking at the filter on the tractor? Or another test to do?

Related follow up, if the fuel i= s bad, and I have about 50 gals in a 250 tank. =A0Can I just add fresh fuel to it, or do I need to drain out all the bad first? =A0What would be a good bad/good ratio to dilute the bad fuel?

Thanks!


"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John Galt? 
______________________________=
_________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
te.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.t=
eam.net/archive

.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/nick@landform.co.uk">http://autox.team.=
net/mailman/options/shop-talk/nick@landform.co.uk
--------------8F623CBBBD4413BC015EB972-- --===============1841796659930064246== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1841796659930064246==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 24 07:15:59 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30001A1070 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:15:59 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ot1-f51.google.com (unknown [209.85.210.51]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEB81A0E86 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:15:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-ot1-f51.google.com with SMTP id i27so12229647ota.7 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 06:15:06 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=njiZk5WkgFxEPWQ5eUt4oPVagL+fr4FtIe5iRPUUxqM=; b=oJtWiAaK6hlEa9c+aKjPiEserI6dzviytxs8PyQ2Qbvcj0y10vRENnBRJAammkFStN 6T3GqNrDbySc0exFRByBP/6u/tqaqegAytF4EstlWlSA2uGvsqGMxSomkbEyteOIkZg0 60BE+rT/cg1uyzUtYHbNQw8yCMgFIFsPaCV3PSzYeQhcmo/TbhMiFbdVd3u5MTvqh9Zy z/N6rf1Zjl1/KPsFNLQPBM0kLqGTlDrwgMjmLXwYTjyIeoTHKCGM4AO1OYJ3cBvT5v5j zWWUCDcbRPhUU/ow/BpZnLcV14qBZ7vV3I54PI4eKRCGHRWLaYlAwprnE4hRnMShIPjw tatQ== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=njiZk5WkgFxEPWQ5eUt4oPVagL+fr4FtIe5iRPUUxqM=; b=mq/qPMb7n4qxdnRpg0YmKL9M8Du/F0RFR73IevUk1eBpOsDlS/J5v/Fli7T+6hgl+E W4XV5iQMkKwrC2rPdN/o8vWF6Eag/BFeky2dQ5INnvCXj0xMBqxLzcmGyjIQpGsMXsPa 0mDYNFM+B38YygzDPkJhVa66IRkRl88xncnNC7IumURTbeTr9ID+RHzxaMgvFUDtmdOm C+ySxGRkctzIvgN7G76rxtZUrsl+EY0y1c4T0cGrXJ3ebDYIB9ColIEJF0+5zuXQ7ptX Q/uZzL7sj72vjbeR8QEdsC6VslxWLXjGZgzutcmmFLMC3b26I5kS695nR1NTEuh2pq0W 5ywg== AWcjlkKJqQBcBnviiGcFcLON6WGxL6K5znK3lRLs5WIL y11mr7439948oto.88.1587734105749; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 06:15:05 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 09:14:59 -0400 To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question From: Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============7080603116774665599== --0000000000005efb6e05a4092724 We have two 500kW generators at work. Each has a 1400 gallon tank; we go through about 500-800 gallons per year. I expect that, despite the fact that these generators are having their 21st birthday this year, there is still some portion of fuel in the tank that is 21 years old. This bothers me a little bit, but it keeps working. We did throw a jug of biocide in one year with the fresh fuel. Having said that, we have a service guy come in twice a year to check fluids and change filters, and they get exercised 30 minutes a week just to make sure they will run when we need them. Do like the others have said: check filters, check a fuel sample from the tank, and let us know what you find. There exist people who do fuel polishing - they come to your large ship or tank farm and run an extra fuel cleaning and refreshing for your stored diesel fuel. Might be a bit of overkill on the farm. Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:46 AM eric--- via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > Does anyone know of a way to tell if diesel fuel has gone bad? > > Here is my situation. I have a large diesel fuel tank for my tractors on > my property (so I don't have to buy 'over the road' diesel.) The fuel in > there has been there a few years. > > My newest tractor (a small 25hp subcompact) started acting funny. At full > throttle, it seems to sputter a little. > > Could be a fuel problem, but I would love to test the diesel somehow. Or > is there a way of looking at the filter on the tractor? Or another test to > do? > > Related follow up, if the fuel is bad, and I have about 50 gals in a 250 > tank. Can I just add fresh fuel to it, or do I need to drain out all the > bad first? What would be a good bad/good ratio to dilute the bad fuel? > > Thanks! > > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > -Who is John Galt?_______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com > > --0000000000005efb6e05a4092724 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

We have two 500kW generators at= work.=C2=A0 Each has a 1400 gallon tank; we go through about 500-800 gallo= ns per year.=C2=A0 I expect that, despite the fact that these generators ar= e having their=C2=A021st birthday this=C2=A0year, there is still some porti= on of fuel in the tank that is 21 years old.=C2=A0 This bothers me a little= bit, but it keeps working.=C2=A0 We did throw a jug of biocide in one year= with the fresh fuel.

Having said that, we have a servic= e guy come in twice a year to check fluids and change filters, and they get= exercised 30 minutes a week just to make sure they will run when we need t= hem.=C2=A0=C2=A0

Do like the others=C2=A0have said= :=C2=A0 check filters, check a fuel sample from the tank, and let us know w= hat you find.

There exist people who do fuel p= olishing - they come to your large ship or tank farm and run an extra fuel = cleaning and refreshing for your stored diesel fuel.=C2=A0 Might be a bit o= f overkill on the farm.

Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Ac= res, Ga.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:46 AM eric--- via Shop-t= alk <shop-talk@autox.team.ne= t> wrote:
Does anyone know of a way to tell if = diesel fuel has gone bad?

Here is my situation.=C2=A0 I have= a large diesel fuel tank for my tractors on my property (so I don't have to buy 'over the road' diesel.) =C2=A0The fuel in there has been th= ere a few years.

My newest tractor (a small 25hp su= bcompact) started acting funny.=C2=A0 At full throttle, it seems to sputter a little.=

Could be a fuel problem, but I wou= ld love to test the diesel somehow. Or is there a way of looking at the filter on the tractor? Or another test to do?

Related follow up, if the fuel is = bad, and I have about 50 gals in a 250 tank.=C2=A0 Can I just add fresh fuel to it, or do I need to drain out all the bad first?=C2=A0 What would be a good bad/good ratio to dilute the bad fuel?

Thanks!


"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a ratio= nal being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John Galt?_______________________________________________
Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/fishplate@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.= team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com

--0000000000005efb6e05a4092724-- --===============7080603116774665599== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7080603116774665599==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 24 08:31:17 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BADF9A111E for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:31:17 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qt1-f182.google.com (unknown [209.85.160.182]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55505A0A8E for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:30:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-qt1-f182.google.com with SMTP id b1so4352951qtt.1 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:30:22 -0700 (PDT) h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=8SsCrGXhKgPlYiiz4Jckm0GPVu5U/vHYLNr8jiktENc=; b=gguoD/6dnAeWIC+3gDKoK6BQ5SQ+ohAns4n/d+jUx3vWIegx0+T7ysdT1b29dmfq1F +raomgtpGZMownWlNsoHwaCW/B6U92rOxHZCxeahloeqYt1RE60KH3yAG/LhaNl3mb8Q iTlPGSO7S1sKzuCuoOgjFu0VF/cQ2n8ECnmjVUsqwp2r+6vtYuAuItzvIhrNi4CCRuQJ GL2hdblMkZgbzp5ZZ+/I/eb2G/UWydg7bkqUgrrxvPvWsexdjmOh5/QFZX75pC/sxYhM KcbTc4LeInvWopJ/+C30ex30YCxyjcrjOtgfrno7qlcy2zBye2wod0BOZx0S2HGmg9sX J5QQ== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=8SsCrGXhKgPlYiiz4Jckm0GPVu5U/vHYLNr8jiktENc=; b=fqBi8mxf7frZtk8att3n0n3DzdvlrPA5KoXJZkQpS/9rsKa64i7RBpE4x+sUhJYkMM P/0AfsbJHRdyoRWG7BEVcDPmDJoQAGtpBYzptMclv4HX8jBMWdy1oRjGoYTSY0ArdTdF ObA2GCgXk4HxnBTocGh/QWGEZhFgW92cuc2UXB0V6cfUI6iQPSRpe8B5UY4hnM+sUeO5 0mExWnLZRwHF0Mj/fS6gnDzZ9f8h4cG/poFgfIrT6YYCtd9tfLViV2rGBBZW23/PlXko RDZtQYZAIAi/GvUrFfgCw6NeImIPWoUMvsIapLLasiaPUGdT9izqVc/tYsnBLcCYjnz2 VcDQ== k53E6+rUUVyhK31UPK0/py8QuUdC Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hpenvy2 (c-76-112-183-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net. [76.112.183.50]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a3sm3847907qka.61.2020.04.24.07.30.19 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 24 Apr 2020 07:30:20 -0700 (PDT) To: References: Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 10:30:13 -0400 Thread-Index: AQJITGIHwHfR6xYJZH145x6Em5I4nwOGVWrlp4e72iA= Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question From: Al Fuller via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============3631835105449824391== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_09CF_01D61A23.57A50B60" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_09CF_01D61A23.57A50B60 charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jeff [and all]: =20 As regards the comment you made below that the generators get exercised = 30 minutes a week: Please keep in mind that its sounds like you meant to = say the diesel engines get exercised [as opposed to the generators].=20 =20 The difference is the generator set also includes the transfer switch, = wiring and other components. I had one client that fired up the diesel = weekly, but when a wind storm blew down the power lines, the facility = was down for a week while they tried to locate a new transfer switch. It = turned out the building housed a lot more people and equipment than when = the generator set was first specified and the switch set = couldn=E2=80=99t support the load. It was very frustrating to have a = working diesel generator, but unable to power the building! =20 As a validation person, our motto is if it needs to work, it needs to be = tested ahead of time =E2=80=93 in the same way you would use it. =20 ---------------- All the best, =20 Al Fuller =20 From: Shop-talk On Behalf Of Jeff = Scarbrough via Shop-talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 9:15 AM To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question =20 =20 We have two 500kW generators at work. Each has a 1400 gallon tank; we = go through about 500-800 gallons per year. I expect that, despite the = fact that these generators are having their 21st birthday this year, = there is still some portion of fuel in the tank that is 21 years old. = This bothers me a little bit, but it keeps working. We did throw a jug = of biocide in one year with the fresh fuel. =20 Having said that, we have a service guy come in twice a year to check = fluids and change filters, and they get exercised 30 minutes a week just = to make sure they will run when we need them. =20 =20 Do like the others have said: check filters, check a fuel sample from = the tank, and let us know what you find. =20 There exist people who do fuel polishing - they come to your large ship = or tank farm and run an extra fuel cleaning and refreshing for your = stored diesel fuel. Might be a bit of overkill on the farm. =20 Jeff Scarbrough Corrosion Acres, Ga. =20 On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:46 AM eric--- via Shop-talk = Does anyone know of a way to tell if diesel fuel has gone bad?=20 Here is my situation. I have a large diesel fuel tank for my tractors = on my property (so I don't have to buy 'over the road' diesel.) The = fuel in there has been there a few years.=20 My newest tractor (a small 25hp subcompact) started acting funny. At = full throttle, it seems to sputter a little.=20 Could be a fuel problem, but I would love to test the diesel somehow. Or = is there a way of looking at the filter on the tractor? Or another test = to do?=20 Related follow up, if the fuel is bad, and I have about 50 gals in a 250 = tank. Can I just add fresh fuel to it, or do I need to drain out all = the bad first? What would be a good bad/good ratio to dilute the bad = fuel?=20 Thanks!=20 "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a = rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your = territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson=20 -Who is John Galt?_______________________________________________ Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com ------=_NextPart_000_09CF_01D61A23.57A50B60 charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jeff [and = all]:

 

As regards the comment you made below that the = generators get exercised 30 minutes a week: Please keep in mind that its = sounds like you meant to say the diesel engines get exercised [as = opposed to the generators].

 

The = difference is the generator set also includes the transfer switch, = wiring and other components. I had one client that fired up the diesel = weekly, but when a wind storm blew down the power lines, the facility = was down for a week while they tried to locate a new transfer switch. It = turned out the building housed a lot more people and equipment than when = the generator set was first specified and the switch set = couldn=E2=80=99t support the load.=C2=A0 It was very frustrating to have = a working diesel generator, but unable to power the = building!

 

As a validation person, our motto is if it needs to = work, it needs to be tested ahead of time =E2=80=93 in the same way you = would use it.

 

----------------

All the best,

 

Al = Fuller

 

From: Shop-talk = <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Jeff = Scarbrough via Shop-talk
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 9:15 = AM
To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: = [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question

 

 

We = have two 500kW generators at work.  Each has a 1400 gallon tank; we = go through about 500-800 gallons per year.  I expect that, despite = the fact that these generators are having their 21st birthday = this year, there is still some portion of fuel in the tank that is = 21 years old.  This bothers me a little bit, but it keeps = working.  We did throw a jug of biocide in one year with the fresh = fuel.

 

Having said that, we have a service guy come in twice = a year to check fluids and change filters, and they get exercised 30 = minutes a week just to make sure they will run when we need = them.  

 

Do like the others have said:  check = filters, check a fuel sample from the tank, and let us know what you = find.

 

There exist people who do fuel polishing - they come = to your large ship or tank farm and run an extra fuel cleaning and = refreshing for your stored diesel fuel.  Might be a bit of overkill = on the farm.

 

Jeff Scarbrough

Corrosion Acres, Ga.

 

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:46 AM eric--- via Shop-talk = <shop-talk@autox.team.net>= wrote:

Does anyone = know of a way to tell if diesel fuel has gone bad?

Here is my = situation.  I have a large diesel fuel tank for my tractors on my = property (so I don't have to buy 'over the road' diesel.)  The fuel = in there has been there a few years.

My newest = tractor (a small 25hp subcompact) started acting funny.  At full = throttle, it seems to sputter a little.

Could be a = fuel problem, but I would love to test the diesel somehow. Or is there a = way of looking at the filter on the tractor? Or another test to = do?

Related follow = up, if the fuel is bad, and I have about 50 gals in a 250 tank.  = Can I just add fresh fuel to it, or do I need to drain out all the bad = first?  What would be a good bad/good ratio to dilute the bad = fuel?

Thanks! =


"B= e as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational = being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." = Ralph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John = Galt?_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested = annual donation  $12.96
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Ma= nage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishpla= te@gmail.com

------=_NextPart_000_09CF_01D61A23.57A50B60-- --===============3631835105449824391== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3631835105449824391==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 24 09:22:27 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B68FA11A7 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 09:22:27 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oo1-f44.google.com (unknown [209.85.161.44]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30910A10FA for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 09:21:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-oo1-f44.google.com with SMTP id t3so2175801oou.8 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:21:31 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ByWGZtOm/o5tqThz/flck2kjFZ7G9Fbsu1ESsPJtiOs=; b=tj/jbRVO9FtrfSis7zMAswy61Pu4gDyKpYHPpMRWYuLWVwCilB2+d8tvswjFTDKHYO jFXUDtY7bC4O8z3drpVoREbY3jynFVpBFNMDiCdwSovUlikTHvY6oeSvHnU3M7FKmWo4 kB47Q7cYFbFtJvra8A/8AODHeAYRGVU28a798qdwMe+hHHeZGbeQUGSpI2555wr2ZiyH CJWAYptqRzRkHFSCWdJAUkdFrOyqBtSS60aPNBwZD+YPRItnjxaaG8naO6VeSsBSlXLT Y8+lEot8KoUEWxip/yl87kNDCLtyQer1Tjx30WIYSMBLkb8NbegAjPFKonoWgscLhZRV Y7YQ== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=ByWGZtOm/o5tqThz/flck2kjFZ7G9Fbsu1ESsPJtiOs=; b=EAINyoJ0JgjlhiWi9azxPo/dSm3rO0bpzNZ2gVzWuDZoBv+eVfKwehRzGviIz95tIY mMaCEOFZiMquRTCPop2olkb7i3EMh+LszKSW3c0U6qMivgsf+o7Mn8ZzowRsF2tEUFEG 9yl+sIiN9fjJ5yjHgGwdvH+6BtRyBbTk5hqb2unSj/sGiUDW/nsSzUNXvQ9FE3/Xlpwd u1LQ9UF5kouqrO3vfQxbZInaAT4c5awEcc+HzmjOZ0hL1stqV8nOqzS2suxdYjbKLLt6 7rnZ4Lxe18mRn73UzSSLAxr4vDcMG4SfKf0EORlVUvyyF+L5owLo0PUTQ9PRf1ceoGvk YEug== dOr4wo/OsmObnCqIMjzxQPn4Nb3L8++voGsCvKIl/qOZ Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:21:30 -0700 (PDT) References: <09ce01d61a44$deb43a60$9c1caf20$@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 11:21:24 -0400 To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question From: Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0333310331654712545== --0000000000006eeb2505a40aeb5d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Al, You are correct - it is the engines that get exercised, not the generator, and that's an important distinction. Do you do validation or commissioning, or both? Our generators have been reliable so far in real emergencies, but live load testing with our current facility involves some challenges that have consequences we don't care to risk if we can help it. Our new facility, currently under construction (coming online at the end of this year, pandemic notwithstanding), has two 2MW generators (3800 gallons each) with load bank for testing. So we will exercise the generator along with the diesel engine. We will probably include live load testing of the entire system including transfer switch, tie breaker for redundant power systems, and redundant power supply for one building, at least semi-annually. As this place won't be a patchwork of 50 years of continuous improvement with all that implies, I'm planning on the whole thing being seamless and trouble-free. A boy can dream, right? On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:31 AM Al Fuller via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > Jeff [and all]: > > > > As regards the comment you made below that the generators get exercised 3= 0 > minutes a week: Please keep in mind that its sounds like you meant to say > the diesel engines get exercised [as opposed to the generators]. > > > > The difference is the generator set also includes the transfer switch, > wiring and other components. I had one client that fired up the diesel > weekly, but when a wind storm blew down the power lines, the facility was > down for a week while they tried to locate a new transfer switch. It turn= ed > out the building housed a lot more people and equipment than when the > generator set was first specified and the switch set couldn=E2=80=99t sup= port the > load. It was very frustrating to have a working diesel generator, but > unable to power the building! > > > > As a validation person, our motto is if it needs to work, it needs to be > tested ahead of time =E2=80=93 in the same way you would use it. > > > > ---------------- > > All the best, > > > > Al Fuller > > > > *From:* Shop-talk *On Behalf Of *Jeff > Scarbrough via Shop-talk > *Sent:* Friday, April 24, 2020 9:15 AM > *To:* Shop-talk@autox.team.net > *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question > > > > > > We have two 500kW generators at work. Each has a 1400 gallon tank; we go > through about 500-800 gallons per year. I expect that, despite the fact > that these generators are having their 21st birthday this year, there is > still some portion of fuel in the tank that is 21 years old. This bother= s > me a little bit, but it keeps working. We did throw a jug of biocide in > one year with the fresh fuel. > > > > Having said that, we have a service guy come in twice a year to check > fluids and change filters, and they get exercised 30 minutes a week just = to > make sure they will run when we need them. > > > > Do like the others have said: check filters, check a fuel sample from th= e > tank, and let us know what you find. > > > > There exist people who do fuel polishing - they come to your large ship o= r > tank farm and run an extra fuel cleaning and refreshing for your stored > diesel fuel. Might be a bit of overkill on the farm. > > > > Jeff Scarbrough > > Corrosion Acres, Ga. > > > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:46 AM eric--- via Shop-talk < > shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > > Does anyone know of a way to tell if diesel fuel has gone bad? > > Here is my situation. I have a large diesel fuel tank for my tractors on > my property (so I don't have to buy 'over the road' diesel.) The fuel in > there has been there a few years. > > My newest tractor (a small 25hp subcompact) started acting funny. At ful= l > throttle, it seems to sputter a little. > > Could be a fuel problem, but I would love to test the diesel somehow. Or > is there a way of looking at the filter on the tractor? Or another test t= o > do? > > Related follow up, if the fuel is bad, and I have about 50 gals in a 250 > tank. Can I just add fresh fuel to it, or do I need to drain out all the > bad first? What would be a good bad/good ratio to dilute the bad fuel? > > Thanks! > > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > -Who is John Galt?_______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com > > --0000000000006eeb2505a40aeb5d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Al,

You are correct - it is the engines= that get exercised, not the generator,=C2=A0and that's an important=C2= =A0distinction.=C2=A0 Do you do validation or commissioning, or both?=C2=A0= =C2=A0

Our=C2=A0generators=C2=A0 have been reliabl= e so far in real emergencies, but live load testing with=C2=A0our current f= acility involves some challenges that have consequences we don't care t= o risk if we can help it.=C2=A0=C2=A0

Our new facility, currently=C2= =A0under construction (coming online at the end of this year, pandemic notw= ithstanding), has two=C2=A0 2MW generators (3800 gallons each) with load ba= nk for testing.=C2=A0 So we will exercise the generator along with the dies= el engine.=C2=A0 We will probably include live load testing of the entire s= ystem including transfer switch, tie breaker for redundant power systems, a= nd redundant power supply for one building, at least semi-annually.=C2=A0 A= s this place won't be a patchwork of 50 years of continuous improvement= =C2=A0with all that implies, I'm planning on the whole thing being seam= less and trouble-free.

A boy can dream, right?

 --0000000000006eeb2505a40aeb5d-- --===============0333310331654712545== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0333310331654712545==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 24 09:27:12 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9596DA1158 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 09:27:12 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from smtp.centurylink.net (unknown [206.152.134.66]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 707A5A10B0 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 09:27:09 -0600 (MDT) q=dns/txt; i=@mebtel.net; t=1587742029; h=From:Subject:Date:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; bh=Oh/+U5Xdg5xM+b8Ramx2/fM46p4=; b=sXQ93+ILDAJ/ryGPg7qsmGiY/b03aWl28XM351tXH1UKvh0+Y/+T2V6K3zuaHxai wivu6fbtgJrbDL2GnOs2pDc3B20SPAerprtaz8Gi8/S90cs0ryHJhkGLoYDCY5I6 oCiBRwzTkzmrvv/rO0b6d4GWZTR96Kh1Qf+oil+Gste4xDv0ezS3EJ0CJkb6Q+C2 rPJFPhAorh1uUUtRcmPO9k/FdMKCzOXtb6KD7gmKSoZOxwGjX7t2HpHXDr3MtIfK NBFvKz3DYpap4IV3dpRgiE15RrDFnZRw4ZJFiPE6VbzINT+/nSzY1ubLZznBL9P5 S3n58jvrOETrYilu9nBIaA==; X_CMAE_Category: , , a=I0wsP0/ub+0M/VQyKFHlEA==:117 a=I0wsP0/ub+0M/VQyKFHlEA==:17 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=cl8xLZFz6L8A:10 a=KlU2pWyFyn8A:10 a=eQrCS-SpgXYA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=yA5P-Nga1rZ3Qs9ZBEgA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=EFXisMBvCN0yP59F6VYA:9 a=EoLOLJZzjJMC_3PJ:21 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 Feedback-ID: dfw:ctl:res:onyx Authentication-Results: smtp04.onyx.dfw.sync.lan smtp.user=ejrussell@mebtel.net; auth=pass (LOGIN) Received: from [99.194.29.42] ([99.194.29.42:4786] helo=[192.168.0.5]) by smtp.centurylink.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.25.56547 r(Core:3.6.25.0)) with ESMTPSA (cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA) id 8E/E7-04609-C4503AE5; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 11:27:09 -0400 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <09ce01d61a44$deb43a60$9c1caf20$@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 11:27:08 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question From: Eric Russell via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============5255912804876353762== boundary="------------5230594E7C8EE0E203334F9F" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5230594E7C8EE0E203334F9F Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Since we've drifted a little bit off-topic (and we likely have too much free time now), here's my story about emergency generators. At the time I was working (RN) night shift in a hospital ICU. Every Tuesday about 6am the hospital would test their emergency generator. It was supposed to be a quick blink from regular power to emergency power. Except in our ICU (and only the ICU) the power would be off for 3-5 minutes! Not fun when you have patients on ventilators that did not have battery back-up. It got so bad I would remind my staff to stand by with flashlights and manual Ambu bags every Tuesday morning. I complained to the engineering department but they insisted the power would only be off for a few seconds at most. I finally convinced the chief engineer to come sit in our unit on a Tuesday morning. He did, the power went off for a full 5 minutes and the color drained from his face. Whatever was the problem finally got fixed. Eric Russell Mebane, NC On 4/24/2020 10:30 AM, Al Fuller via Shop-talk wrote: > As regards the comment you made below that the generators get > exercised 30 minutes a week: Please keep in mind that its sounds like > you meant to say the diesel engines get exercised [as opposed to the > generators]. > > The difference is the generator set also includes the transfer switch, > wiring and other components. I had one client that fired up the diesel > weekly, but when a wind storm blew down the power lines, the facility > was down for a week while they tried to locate a new transfer switch. > It turned out the building housed a lot more people and equipment than > when the generator set was first specified and the switch set couldn’t > support the load.  It was very frustrating to have a working diesel > generator, but unable to power the building! > > --------------5230594E7C8EE0E203334F9F Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Since we've drifted a little bit off-topic (and we likely have too much free time now), here's my story about emergency generators. At the time I was working (RN) night shift in a hospital ICU. Every Tuesday about 6am the hospital would test their emergency generator. It was supposed to be a quick blink from regular power to emergency power. Except in our ICU (and only the ICU) the power would be off for 3-5 minutes! Not fun when you have patients on ventilators that did not have battery back-up. It got so bad I would remind my staff to stand by with flashlights and manual Ambu bags every Tuesday morning.

I complained to the engineering department but they insisted the power would only be off for a few seconds at most. I finally convinced the chief engineer to come sit in our unit on a Tuesday morning. He did, the power went off for a full 5 minutes and the color drained from his face. Whatever was the problem finally got fixed.

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC

On 4/24/2020 10:30 AM, Al Fuller via Shop-talk wrote:
As regards the comment you made below that the generators get exercised 30 minutes a week: Please keep in mind that its sounds like you meant to say the diesel engines get exercised [as opposed to the generators].

 

The difference is the generator set also includes the transfer switch, wiring and other components. I had one client that fired up the diesel weekly, but when a wind storm blew down the power lines, the facility was down for a week while they tried to locate a new transfer switch. It turned out the building housed a lot more people and equipment than when the generator set was first specified and the switch set couldn’t support the load.  It was very frustrating to have a working diesel generator, but unable to power the building!



--------------5230594E7C8EE0E203334F9F-- --===============5255912804876353762== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============5255912804876353762==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 24 13:21:11 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E00A18A2 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 13:21:11 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resdmta-po-02v.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.114.154.210]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD544A0CA2 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 13:21:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resqmta-po-04v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.163]) by resqmta-po-12v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id S2FCjLlCpMqonS3snj0XV2; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 19:21:05 +0000 d=comcastmailservice.net; 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Fri, 24 Apr 2020 19:21:04 +0000 To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:21:04 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Content-Language: en-US Subject: [Shop-talk] Backup problems (was: diesel fuel question, then backup generator issues) From: Mark Miller via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net SSB3b3VsZCBndWVzcyB5b3Ugd2VyZSBub3Qgb24gdGhlIGVtZXJnZW5jeSBwb3dlciBzeXN0ZW0g YXQgYWxsOyBpdCBjYW1lIApiYWNrIG9uIGFmdGVyIDUgbWludXRlcyBiZWNhdXNlIHRoZSB0ZXN0 IHdhcyBjb21wbGV0ZSBhbmQgeW91IHdlbnQgYmFjayAKdG8gbWFpbnMgcG93ZXIgZmVlZC4KCkV2 ZW4gbW9yZSBvZmYgdG9waWMgaGVyZS4KCk5vdCBsaWZlIHRocmVhdGVuaW5nIGFzIHlvdXIgc2l0 dWF0aW9uIHdhcyBidXQgSSBvbmNlIHdvcmtlZCBhdCBhIAptaW5pLWNvbXB1dGVyIG1hbnVmYWN0 dXJlciB3aGVyZSB3ZSBnb3QgZmFuY3k6IGhpcmVkIHNvbWVvbmUgdG8gcnVuIG91ciAKc3lzdGVt IGJhY2t1cHMgc28gd2UgZW5naW5lZXJzIGRpZG4ndCBoYXZlIHRvIHRha2UgdHVybnMgYmFieXNp dHRpbmcgaXQgCm5pZ2h0bHkuIEV2ZW50dWFsbHkgd2UgaGFkIGEgcHJvYmxlbSBhcyB3ZSBoYWQg bW9yZSBkYXRhIHRoYW4gd291bGQgZml0IApvbiBhIHNpbmdsZSB0YXBlICgxLzIiIDkgdHJhY2sp LiBOb3RlIHRoYXQgdGhpcyB3YXMgc3RpbGwgdW5kZXIgMjAwTWIgCihNYiwgbm90IEdiKSwgbm93 IGEgJDIgdGh1bWIgZHJpdmUuIFNvIHRoZSBjb2RlIHdhcyB1cGRhdGVkIHRvIGZsb3cgb250byAK YW5vdGhlciB0YXBlIGFuZCBhIG1lc3NhZ2UgdG8gdGhlIGJhY2t1cCBvcGVyYXRvciB3aGVuIHRo ZSB0YXBlIHJlYWNoZWQgCnRoZSBlbmQgcG9wcGVkIHVwICJtb3VudCBvdGhlciB0YXBlIi7CoCBG YXN0IGZvcndhcmQgdW50aWwgc29tZW9uZSB3ZW50IAp0byB1c2UgdGhlIGJhY2t1cCBhZnRlciBh IGRpc2sgY3Jhc2ggYW5kIGl0IHdhcyB1bnVzYWJsZTrCoCBvdXIgZGF0YSBoYWQgCmdyb3duIHNv IHRoYXQgd2Ugbm93IG5lZWRlZCAyKyB0YXBlcyBidXQgd2l0aCB0aGUgbWVzc2FnZSB0aGF0IGNh bWUgdXAgCnRoZSBvcGVyYXRvciBwdXQgdGhlIGZpcnN0IHRhcGUgYmFja8KgIGluIGZvciB0aGUg c2Vjb25kIGNoYW5nZSwgCm92ZXJ3cml0aW5nIHRoZSBmaXJzdCB0YXBlIGluIHRoZSBiYWNrdXAu IE9vcHMuCgpSZWdhcmRzLAoKTWFyayBNaWxsZXIgICA3MDctNDkwLTU4MzQKbWFya21pbGxlckB0 aHJlZWJveXNmYXJtLmNvbQoKCj4gRnJvbTogRXJpYyBSdXNzZWxsIDxlanJ1c3NlbGxAbWVidGVs Lm5ldD4KPiBUbzogc2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Cj4gU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtTaG9w LXRhbGtdIGRpZXNlbCBmdWVsIHF1ZXN0aW9uCj4gTWVzc2FnZS1JRDogPGQ3NjY1MzFjLTE4NTAt ZThmZS1hNGNiLTE0NTY1MTQ0MTcwOUBtZWJ0ZWwubmV0Pgo+IENvbnRlbnQtVHlwZTogdGV4dC9w bGFpbjsgY2hhcnNldD0idXRmLTgiOyBGb3JtYXQ9ImZsb3dlZCIKPgo+IFNpbmNlIHdlJ3ZlIGRy aWZ0ZWQgYSBsaXR0bGUgYml0IG9mZi10b3BpYyAoYW5kIHdlIGxpa2VseSBoYXZlIHRvbyBtdWNo Cj4gZnJlZSB0aW1lIG5vdyksIGhlcmUncyBteSBzdG9yeSBhYm91dCBlbWVyZ2VuY3kgZ2VuZXJh dG9ycy4gQXQgdGhlIHRpbWUKPiBJIHdhcyB3b3JraW5nIChSTikgbmlnaHQgc2hpZnQgaW4gYSBo b3NwaXRhbCBJQ1UuIEV2ZXJ5IFR1ZXNkYXkgYWJvdXQKPiA2YW0gdGhlIGhvc3BpdGFsIHdvdWxk IHRlc3QgdGhlaXIgZW1lcmdlbmN5IGdlbmVyYXRvci4gSXQgd2FzIHN1cHBvc2VkCj4gdG8gYmUg YSBxdWljayBibGluayBmcm9tIHJlZ3VsYXIgcG93ZXIgdG8gZW1lcmdlbmN5IHBvd2VyLiBFeGNl cHQgaW4gb3VyCj4gSUNVIChhbmQgb25seSB0aGUgSUNVKSB0aGUgcG93ZXIgd291bGQgYmUgb2Zm IGZvciAzLTUgbWludXRlcyEgTm90IGZ1bgo+IHdoZW4geW91IGhhdmUgcGF0aWVudHMgb24gdmVu dGlsYXRvcnMgdGhhdCBkaWQgbm90IGhhdmUgYmF0dGVyeSBiYWNrLXVwLgo+IEl0IGdvdCBzbyBi YWQgSSB3b3VsZCByZW1pbmQgbXkgc3RhZmYgdG8gc3RhbmQgYnkgd2l0aCBmbGFzaGxpZ2h0cyBh bmQKPiBtYW51YWwgQW1idSBiYWdzIGV2ZXJ5IFR1ZXNkYXkgbW9ybmluZy4KPgo+IEkgY29tcGxh aW5lZCB0byB0aGUgZW5naW5lZXJpbmcgZGVwYXJ0bWVudCBidXQgdGhleSBpbnNpc3RlZCB0aGUg cG93ZXIKPiB3b3VsZCBvbmx5IGJlIG9mZiBmb3IgYSBmZXcgc2Vjb25kcyBhdCBtb3N0LiBJIGZp bmFsbHkgY29udmluY2VkIHRoZQo+IGNoaWVmIGVuZ2luZWVyIHRvIGNvbWUgc2l0IGluIG91ciB1 bml0IG9uIGEgVHVlc2RheSBtb3JuaW5nLiBIZSBkaWQsIHRoZQo+IHBvd2VyIHdlbnQgb2ZmIGZv ciBhIGZ1bGwgNSBtaW51dGVzIGFuZCB0aGUgY29sb3IgZHJhaW5lZCBmcm9tIGhpcyBmYWNlLgo+ IFdoYXRldmVyIHdhcyB0aGUgcHJvYmxlbSBmaW5hbGx5IGdvdCBmaXhlZC4KPgo+IEVyaWMgUnVz c2VsbAo+IE1lYmFuZSwgTkMKPgo+IE9uIDQvMjQvMjAyMCAxMDozMCBBTSwgQWwgRnVsbGVyIHZp YSBTaG9wLXRhbGsgd3JvdGU6Cj4KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX18KClNob3AtdGFsa0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldApEb25hdGU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cu dGVhbS5uZXQvZG9uYXRlLmh0bWwKU3VnZ2VzdGVkIGFubnVhbCBkb25hdGlvbiAgJDEyLjk2CkFy Y2hpdmU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvcGlwZXJtYWlsL3Nob3AtdGFsayBodHRwOi8vYXV0 b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvYXJjaGl2ZQoKVW5zdWJzY3JpYmUvTWFuYWdlOiBodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gudGVh bS5uZXQvbWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL3Nob3AtdGFsay9taGFyY0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldAoK From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 24 17:59:39 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00165A1099 for ; 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[76.112.183.50]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m7sm4770592qke.124.2020.04.24.16.59.29 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 24 Apr 2020 16:59:29 -0700 (PDT) To: References: <09ce01d61a44$deb43a60$9c1caf20$@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 19:59:23 -0400 Thread-Index: AQJITGIHwHfR6xYJZH145x6Em5I4nwOGVWrlAZEFo+YCJYCzX6dqpAWw Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question From: Al Fuller via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============0437686779296205054== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E1_01D61A72.DA3C09D0" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00E1_01D61A72.DA3C09D0 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jeff: =20 We do commissioning and validation. Lately it is mostly for = FDA-regulated facilities [pharmaceutical, biotech, medical device, etc.] = =E2=80=93 but also financial services and others. And, Yup =E2=80=93 a = boy CAN dream!! =F0=9F=98=8A =20 It turns out that I am the =E2=80=98jinx=E2=80=99 when it comes to power = failures:=20 * Supplier in Las Vegas had a battery backup system. It turns out when = the power failed they had never serviced the batteries=E2=80=A6 * Client in Memphis had the wind storm and the transfer switch failed, = no power to the building * Client in Minnesota lost electricity after a ~18 inch snow storm. Four = (4) buildings on the campus each had individual natural-gas fired = generators. One was less than 6 months old and HAD been tested as part = of standing up the building. When I drove up in my Land Cruiser, the = whole campus was dark! Although I had not personally been involved with = validation of the building or generator, I was able to diagnose the = campus-wide lack of power to a validation issue in about three minutes. = I had then up and running within 10 minutes and headed back to my hotel, = as the offices were closed. =20 ---------------- All the best, =20 Al Fuller =20 From: Shop-talk On Behalf Of Jeff = Scarbrough via Shop-talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 11:21 AM To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question =20 Al, =20 You are correct - it is the engines that get exercised, not the = generator, and that's an important distinction. Do you do validation or = commissioning, or both? =20 =20 Our generators have been reliable so far in real emergencies, but live = load testing with our current facility involves some challenges that = have consequences we don't care to risk if we can help it. =20 Our new facility, currently under construction (coming online at the end = of this year, pandemic notwithstanding), has two 2MW generators (3800 = gallons each) with load bank for testing. So we will exercise the = generator along with the diesel engine. We will probably include live = load testing of the entire system including transfer switch, tie breaker = for redundant power systems, and redundant power supply for one = building, at least semi-annually. As this place won't be a patchwork of = 50 years of continuous improvement with all that implies, I'm planning = on the whole thing being seamless and trouble-free. A boy can dream, right? =20 On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:31 AM Al Fuller via Shop-talk = Jeff [and all]: =20 As regards the comment you made below that the generators get exercised = 30 minutes a week: Please keep in mind that its sounds like you meant to = say the diesel engines get exercised [as opposed to the generators].=20 =20 The difference is the generator set also includes the transfer switch, = wiring and other components. I had one client that fired up the diesel = weekly, but when a wind storm blew down the power lines, the facility = was down for a week while they tried to locate a new transfer switch. It = turned out the building housed a lot more people and equipment than when = the generator set was first specified and the switch set = couldn=E2=80=99t support the load. It was very frustrating to have a = working diesel generator, but unable to power the building! =20 As a validation person, our motto is if it needs to work, it needs to be = tested ahead of time =E2=80=93 in the same way you would use it. =20 ---------------- All the best, =20 Al Fuller =20 From: Shop-talk

Hi = Jeff:

 

We do commissioning and validation. Lately it is = mostly for FDA-regulated facilities [pharmaceutical, biotech, medical = device, etc.] =E2=80=93 but also financial services and others. = =C2=A0And, Yup =E2=80=93 a boy CAN dream!! 😊

 

It turns out = that I am the =E2=80=98jinx=E2=80=99 when it comes to power failures: =

  • Supplier in Las Vegas had a battery backup system. It turns out = when the power failed they had never serviced the = batteries=E2=80=A6
  • Client in Memphis had = the wind storm and the transfer switch failed, no power to the = building
  • Client in Minnesota = lost electricity after a ~18 inch snow storm. Four (4) buildings on the = campus each had individual natural-gas fired generators. One was less = than 6 months old and HAD been tested as part of standing up the = building. When I drove up in my Land Cruiser, the whole campus was dark! = Although I had not personally been involved with validation of the = building or generator, I was able to diagnose the campus-wide lack of = power to a validation issue in about three minutes. I had then up and = running within 10 minutes and headed back to my hotel, as the offices = were closed.

 

----------------

All the best,

 

Al = Fuller

 

From: Shop-talk = <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Jeff = Scarbrough via Shop-talk
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 11:21 = AM
To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: = [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question

 

Al,

 

You are correct - it is the engines that get = exercised, not the generator, and that's an = important distinction.  Do you do validation or commissioning, = or both?  

 

Our generators  have been reliable so far in = real emergencies, but live load testing with our current facility = involves some challenges that have consequences we don't care to risk if = we can help it.  

Our new facility, = currently under construction (coming online at the end of this = year, pandemic notwithstanding), has two  2MW generators (3800 = gallons each) with load bank for testing.  So we will exercise the = generator along with the diesel engine.  We will probably include = live load testing of the entire system including transfer switch, tie = breaker for redundant power systems, and redundant power supply for one = building, at least semi-annually.  As this place won't be a = patchwork of 50 years of continuous improvement with all that = implies, I'm planning on the whole thing being seamless and = trouble-free.

A boy can dream, = right?

 

On = Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:31 AM Al Fuller via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>= wrote:

Jeff [and = all]:

 <= /o:p>

As regards = the comment you made below that the generators get exercised 30 minutes = a week: Please keep in mind that its sounds like you meant to say the = diesel engines get exercised [as opposed to the generators]. =

 <= /o:p>

The = difference is the generator set also includes the transfer switch, = wiring and other components. I had one client that fired up the diesel = weekly, but when a wind storm blew down the power lines, the facility = was down for a week while they tried to locate a new transfer switch. It = turned out the building housed a lot more people and equipment than when = the generator set was first specified and the switch set = couldn=E2=80=99t support the load.  It was very frustrating to have = a working diesel generator, but unable to power the = building!

 <= /o:p>

As a = validation person, our motto is if it needs to work, it needs to be = tested ahead of time =E2=80=93 in the same way you would use = it.

 <= /o:p>

------------= ----

All the = best,

 <= /o:p>

Al = Fuller

 <= /o:p>

From:= Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf = Of Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk
Sent: Friday, April 24, = 2020 9:15 AM
To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: = [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

We have two = 500kW generators at work.  Each has a 1400 gallon tank; we go = through about 500-800 gallons per year.  I expect that, despite the = fact that these generators are having their 21st birthday = this year, there is still some portion of fuel in the tank that is = 21 years old.  This bothers me a little bit, but it keeps = working.  We did throw a jug of biocide in one year with the fresh = fuel.

 <= /o:p>

Having said = that, we have a service guy come in twice a year to check fluids and = change filters, and they get exercised 30 minutes a week just to make = sure they will run when we need = them.  

 <= /o:p>

Do like the = others have said:  check filters, check a fuel sample from the = tank, and let us know what you find.

 <= /o:p>

There exist = people who do fuel polishing - they come to your large ship or tank farm = and run an extra fuel cleaning and refreshing for your stored diesel = fuel.  Might be a bit of overkill on the = farm.

 <= /o:p>

Jeff = Scarbrough

Corrosion = Acres, Ga.

 <= /o:p>

On Fri, Apr = 24, 2020 at 7:46 AM eric--- via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> = wrote:

Does anyone = know of a way to tell if diesel fuel has gone bad?

Here is my = situation.  I have a large diesel fuel tank for my tractors on my = property (so I don't have to buy 'over the road' diesel.)  The fuel = in there has been there a few years.

My newest = tractor (a small 25hp subcompact) started acting funny.  At full = throttle, it seems to sputter a little.

Could be a = fuel problem, but I would love to test the diesel somehow. Or is there a = way of looking at the filter on the tractor? Or another test to = do?

Related follow = up, if the fuel is bad, and I have about 50 gals in a 250 tank.  = Can I just add fresh fuel to it, or do I need to drain out all the bad = first?  What would be a good bad/good ratio to dilute the bad = fuel?

Thanks! =


"B= e as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational = being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." = Ralph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John = Galt?_______________________________________________

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------=_NextPart_000_00E1_01D61A72.DA3C09D0-- --===============0437686779296205054== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0437686779296205054==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Apr 24 18:09:03 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59316A1317 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 18:09:03 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qk1-f171.google.com (unknown [209.85.222.171]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2525AA113A for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 18:03:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-qk1-f171.google.com with SMTP id l25so12141939qkk.3 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 17:03:31 -0700 (PDT) h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=C641fE9JCcv6vyYYDantgixOdUPoV/ySAXkQnxoOSk4=; b=UtaygxPmZEJ8q1fZFt536jkqn0Gze72aW60IFZrnu19eWM2yGxdDh64uILjCo4nSln jVsIraUlk+7ECMImQYdd2c85wWIHEPxWdjLct7JW1IbGMXC4KvFdcCs076teJyxKJkNY bITuGlfVQbFC9Kh51Em9F1RSzVAhujQ60FzI82dJbmBH2o1wgNoiwQURWKzYIEjauZQN RkO5pbn6ju3K2vC9ygl08lq2jDW68535uC9wYFFmd7DHbwfJDCSJnVFX3O1QWi6YD1L5 hRLnqLSY93k6vNRNGIod3APYqPkRB676mGAcM4M6JvQKuKnK6OQjhy9gIYF1jF3bgoXT D1KQ== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=C641fE9JCcv6vyYYDantgixOdUPoV/ySAXkQnxoOSk4=; b=htQFHeyJEu3KUzsHphW9H1GAY2Raz1fMi/7UIpmADrAvAd+kaG9MIQBo+k8nHS+G9g nUNgbGV0V5ZB01p9BztbzJiOA1t0RojVQ2oxecx9USrOIO1Jbj//HhcFYynYflCTr6fJ DUIixj/kH79jv0kzhQIlA+zvATtXegbitVv0pHOCcZZd7vRFfqZ0M5c5enZTaKy/9Ug/ VdiBgIgG3f3gZAsrytJmSuGPjF8krmvspjb8Gy+F1kVC0UznHPilEpHyXsKeeg8ZeNj5 poo96jEO96eg4ColbWybQ9+iC/Z15pAVwb9+axEx/IY+Y9tjxMtX4ww1zUnhmHBsEZ6I x1QQ== 1P3y2P2gPj+hUsn3LyVlkznFIoGH d25mr11427156qkk.364.1587773010129; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 17:03:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hpenvy2 (c-76-112-183-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net. [76.112.183.50]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o6sm4669834qkd.113.2020.04.24.17.03.29 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 24 Apr 2020 17:03:29 -0700 (PDT) To: References: <09ce01d61a44$deb43a60$9c1caf20$@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 20:03:23 -0400 Thread-Index: AQJITGIHwHfR6xYJZH145x6Em5I4nwOGVWrlAZEFo+YCq3Twlqdmeamw Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question From: Al Fuller via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============4063187859535545791== boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00EB_01D61A73.691FA0D0" Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00EB_01D61A73.691FA0D0 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eric =E2=80=93 it sounds like the system =E2=80=98worked=E2=80=99 = [albeit in a perverse way=E2=80=A6]. The testing should illuminate any = weaknesses in the system and allow for fixing that before it=E2=80=99s = really needed. Luckily you were able to persist! =20 ---------------- All the best, =20 Al Fuller =20 From: Shop-talk On Behalf Of Eric = Russell via Shop-talk Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 11:27 AM To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question =20 Since we've drifted a little bit off-topic (and we likely have too much = free time now), here's my story about emergency generators. At the time = I was working (RN) night shift in a hospital ICU. Every Tuesday about = 6am the hospital would test their emergency generator. It was supposed = to be a quick blink from regular power to emergency power. Except in our = ICU (and only the ICU) the power would be off for 3-5 minutes! Not fun = when you have patients on ventilators that did not have battery back-up. = It got so bad I would remind my staff to stand by with flashlights and = manual Ambu bags every Tuesday morning.=20 I complained to the engineering department but they insisted the power = would only be off for a few seconds at most. I finally convinced the = chief engineer to come sit in our unit on a Tuesday morning. He did, the = power went off for a full 5 minutes and the color drained from his face. = Whatever was the problem finally got fixed.=20 Eric Russell Mebane, NC=20 =20 On 4/24/2020 10:30 AM, Al Fuller via Shop-talk wrote: As regards the comment you made below that the generators get exercised = 30 minutes a week: Please keep in mind that its sounds like you meant to = say the diesel engines get exercised [as opposed to the generators].=20 =20 The difference is the generator set also includes the transfer switch, = wiring and other components. I had one client that fired up the diesel = weekly, but when a wind storm blew down the power lines, the facility = was down for a week while they tried to locate a new transfer switch. It = turned out the building housed a lot more people and equipment than when = the generator set was first specified and the switch set = couldn=E2=80=99t support the load. It was very frustrating to have a = working diesel generator, but unable to power the building! =20 ------=_NextPart_000_00EB_01D61A73.691FA0D0 charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Eric = =E2=80=93 it sounds like the system =E2=80=98worked=E2=80=99 [albeit in = a perverse way=E2=80=A6]. The testing should illuminate any weaknesses = in the system and allow for fixing that before it=E2=80=99s really = needed. Luckily you were able to persist!

 

----------------

All the best,

 

Al = Fuller

 

From: Shop-talk = <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Eric = Russell via Shop-talk
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 11:27 = AM
To: shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: = [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question

 

Since we've drifted a little = bit off-topic (and we likely have too much free time now), here's my = story about emergency generators. At the time I was working (RN) night = shift in a hospital ICU. Every Tuesday about 6am the hospital would test = their emergency generator. It was supposed to be a quick blink from = regular power to emergency power. Except in our ICU (and only the ICU) = the power would be off for 3-5 minutes! Not fun when you have patients = on ventilators that did not have battery back-up. It got so bad I would = remind my staff to stand by with flashlights and manual Ambu bags every = Tuesday morning.

I complained to the engineering = department but they insisted the power would only be off for a few = seconds at most. I finally convinced the chief engineer to come sit in = our unit on a Tuesday morning. He did, the power went off for a full 5 = minutes and the color drained from his face. Whatever was the problem = finally got fixed.

Eric = Russell
Mebane, NC

 

On 4/24/2020 10:30 AM, Al Fuller via Shop-talk = wrote:

As = regards the comment you made below that the generators get exercised 30 = minutes a week: Please keep in mind that its sounds like you meant to = say the diesel engines get exercised [as opposed to the generators]. =

 

The difference is the generator set also includes the = transfer switch, wiring and other components. I had one client that = fired up the diesel weekly, but when a wind storm blew down the power = lines, the facility was down for a week while they tried to locate a new = transfer switch. It turned out the building housed a lot more people and = equipment than when the generator set was first specified and the switch = set couldn=E2=80=99t support the load.  It was very frustrating to = have a working diesel generator, but unable to power the = building!



 

------=_NextPart_000_00EB_01D61A73.691FA0D0-- --===============4063187859535545791== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============4063187859535545791==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 27 12:14:38 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A51D8A0259 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:14:38 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from Deep13.mail.Megageek.com (unknown [69.34.94.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68F80A0637 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:12:02 -0600 (MDT) To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net type=4; name=$KeepSent Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:12:01 -0400 04/27/2020 02:12:06 PM, Serialize complete at 04/27/2020 02:12:06 PM Subject: [Shop-talk] Reasonably priced storage bins From: eric--- via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============1659795673620694974== This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0063FA6C85258557_= Hello all, My next question is about bulk'ish plastic storage bins. I'm looking for plastic storage bins, around the size of 24"X15"X18". Note, actual size is not important, just around those dimensions approximately. However, once you start looking into these, the prices seem counter to buying a bunch. I was thinking of buying maybe 20 or 40 of these, but most would mean hundreds (or thousands) of dollars. In fact, Uline starts ONE of these containers (a little bit bigger than I need) for over $400 A PIECE! https://www.uline.com/BL_8213/Plastic-Bulk-Containers Many of Amazon seem to be over $30 a piece. I didn't want to spend that much on these. Does anyone know of a good reasonable alternative? Is there maybe a place that sells them as surplus or something? Thanks. I can't use cardboard, I am trying to keep out mice and moisture (but it doesn't need to be airtight if the price is right). I would prefer something stackable, but if not, I can make shelves. Again, exact size isn't important, but big enough to hold at least 5 binders would be a good start. This is for storage of shop items and such. Thanks. Mule "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson -Who is John Galt? --=_alternative 0063FA6C85258557_= Hello all,

My next question is about bulk'ish plastic storage bins.

I'm looking for plastic storage bins, around the size of 24"X15"X18".  Note, actual size is not important, just around those dimensions approximately.

However, once you start looking into these, the prices seem counter to buying a bunch.  I was thinking of buying maybe 20 or 40 of these, but most would mean hundreds (or thousands) of dollars. In fact, Uline starts ONE of these containers (a little bit bigger than I need) for over $400 A PIECE!

https://www.uline.com/BL_8213/Plastic-Bulk-Containers

Many of Amazon seem to be over $30 a piece.  I didn't want to spend that much on these.

Does anyone know of a good reasonable alternative?  Is there maybe a place that sells them as surplus or something?

Thanks.

I can't use cardboard, I am trying to keep out mice and moisture (but it doesn't need to be airtight if the price is right).  I would prefer something stackable, but if not, I can make shelves. Again, exact size isn't important, but big enough to hold at least 5 binders would be a good start.

This is for storage of shop items and such.

Thanks.

Mule

"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John Galt? --=_alternative 0063FA6C85258557_=-- --===============1659795673620694974== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1659795673620694974==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 27 12:37:41 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04003A0B57 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:37:41 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from NAM02-SN1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (unknown [40.92.5.65]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED59CA03ED for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:36:53 -0600 (MDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=jMVuC6cxL18JXRoaFRD9Z1H+AKC4HTp6aBiGQ4odD/FoyA2AvLlvYog4hothTa8A+mK914lB3P9GmQCgXo+VfzNCIBsRWF8Lmcbjw50ztlj0jh7Nh9BlfSmzB4hGF+jl7Amhh0/bgeFkZNC7471V4A49VPB4h5SOhdfoMyutZBhf6JvP2eqMxLQIIEb4rhvsooRepTr5KCXYFUrGfdnwLz1g8dnj2+6Fx8vyb31xR6veeIIm26aX2SU3ASUbRlyw9ERH2dKGu40wdW9BJ68D4KNAeDMrTiU+uypdXk5XEX9qMxVRqLY0tfpC45UeXB2t/e8gOdqT/6k8sG/0CsSjsA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=TvfnqIlDg9sjLNuoBe6vIQUQza71rRqwxY2lhlYlnGc=; b=I/FQ2IXYZnHZ7bPKfDQBaSZCIAvI9q0V6DG+A5wJVOUEgs/Czev5w/qiFztestPbYMQCyP6Xmw+Uq6fj3T7rmxbSwb5PpZ80J9U9D2Qc70A3ihbQ8dEnZ7KjFh7dy9KI77lqxvtB+IHiW+dhhB+eeJOPtEFFL2GiQF6ceCjfq40L+TdnicqQPQT97k7425Nwkx1xD5EIlAVscGAW0c71Yq5okEL7IyXhBfXHiBqwBdegWpdQmQ0OY+BmtXrnlAI6LzklTi9f7CcKM1fJI8gJsdMDWszEzhsnlmYD7Pgp5q9CSorcddgKFtL45trBnC8XLT3teOxPAEQzTaYAcLpNfg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=none; dmarc=none; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=TvfnqIlDg9sjLNuoBe6vIQUQza71rRqwxY2lhlYlnGc=; b=LmWNZpTdyf0VPFptGdKOl9IvZynUUL98H4fmA+Gd/72Ept8P1I8yf3Zgsd0xOa7YFBDMekczJI+qo3qvpCgioGsPMrAdeD4hJ9ZAdoYxJxjc0nirnac2XqEOSLlaZmw+RyIcSavjgviuZl7C4+lsl1Tvvuu8tJRPSk8TSTWmqkO+ynPFOrAZPt+9r0CYfmqL89CIeIhIXrCY7HtotLNJYKPfpYZOQKiniYeLMW/mEuhVZf6iTD2IvQRmM0o0Do6M7a6Tq3nQwF4H3xizb1PDQEyXAbFpCS+CSjQirj0wAPAwnPXbkr33tAxFDMwzimqVgycWbWFBo8Lt9PL0BalR5Q== Received: from BL2NAM02FT025.eop-nam02.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.76.56) by BL2NAM02HT162.eop-nam02.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.76.246) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2937.19; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:36:52 +0000 Received: from MW2PR07MB3978.namprd07.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e46::40) by BL2NAM02FT025.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e46::407) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2937.19 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:36:51 +0000 Received: from MW2PR07MB3978.namprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::1d5f:5cda:3d53:65b1]) by MW2PR07MB3978.namprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::1d5f:5cda:3d53:65b1%4]) with mapi id 15.20.2937.023; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:36:51 +0000 To: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Thread-Topic: [Shop-talk] Reasonably priced storage bins Thread-Index: AQHWHMFA/FGXX/Y2tkaREIWY1LzqrKiNS8gd Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:36:51 +0000 References: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:4B589E663CAF83621B29FCDD22753C6935E4A987E9AD8F147EE5A434E5A24BC7; UpperCasedChecksum:481F436486D8562FBC3234889A1C8EE8B47AE840B836A729ACC2C47FD01FE352; SizeAsReceived:6941; Count:45 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [IyNPt6yiNnqDqU9ZMTC6VYpcZnCXoUrH] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-incomingheadercount: 45 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 8ef2daca-e706-4ea8-ac62-08d7ead9f404 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL2NAM02HT162: x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: MOsVzIDr+gqwB3pGmk4AUzBJoqwZqGcWGLJ123wJcQ9DX4IlUCoQcsWr0R0h5Ee87AtfZGCsXI0XbYBnjZzvUVec0NAWLJzl0szbrYey1empLQ1MKkbs37gRq9HoWQtkGQdZMcZalDLvi8IaX1hgwYFdE2q8rqu3FOb00pNkvhkOWgsyybHbIHM5Sw8QmVSaUIHK0hE6mcoH+FkRoGCveHVdPe86xaGyWkOLuN93Aq2qWej4nJMfdKSItuPGJ2uQ x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:0; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MW2PR07MB3978.namprd07.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:; DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: JH65rVnf+pZWdvt0phQWw0LdTDLVdAPf2/D9I/9jBeRZy8V4ICQF438/HKXThhGNFGgyu0dFcI+lbqyqmsASfdHQkGi0SnzRqcJC6t43/qTY4R7p84+7re8dWV4el2V/6jirfgsKcQr5/a8FxoqoLw== x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Reasonably priced storage bins From: Brian and Wendy Warrick via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0684229740661630136== Content-Language: en-US boundary="_000_MW2PR07MB3978356FB249124CC950611ABBAF0MW2PR07MB3978namp_" --_000_MW2PR07MB3978356FB249124CC950611ABBAF0MW2PR07MB3978namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eric, I think the ones you linked to are made for trucking stuff around the count= ry. Probably super heavy duty, more than you are looking for. Try this section instead. https://www.uline.com/Grp_289/Totes-Plastic-Storage-Boxes Totes / Plastic Storage Boxes - Uline Uline stocks a wide selection of plastic storage bins, storage containers a= nd storage totes. Order by 6 pm for same day shipping. Huge Catalog! Over 3= 7,500 products in stock. 11 locations across USA, Canada and Mexico for fas= t delivery of storage bins. www.uline.com Brian Warrick Nampa, ID ________________________________ From: Shop-talk on behalf of eric--- via= Shop-talk Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 12:12 PM To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: [Shop-talk] Reasonably priced storage bins Hello all, My next question is about bulk'ish plastic storage bins. I'm looking for plastic storage bins, around the size of 24"X15"X18". Note= , actual size is not important, just around those dimensions approximately. However, once you start looking into these, the prices seem counter to buyi= ng a bunch. I was thinking of buying maybe 20 or 40 of these, but most wou= ld mean hundreds (or thousands) of dollars. In fact, Uline starts ONE of th= ese containers (a little bit bigger than I need) for over $400 A PIECE! https://www.uline.com/BL_8213/Plastic-Bulk-Containers Many of Amazon seem to be over $30 a piece. I didn't want to spend that mu= ch on these. Does anyone know of a good reasonable alternative? Is there maybe a place = that sells them as surplus or something? Thanks. I can't use cardboard, I am trying to keep out mice and moisture (but it do= esn't need to be airtight if the price is right). I would prefer something= stackable, but if not, I can make shelves. Again, exact size isn't importa= nt, but big enough to hold at least 5 binders would be a good start. This is for storage of shop items and such. Thanks. Mule "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational b= eing are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo= Emerson -Who is John Galt? --_000_MW2PR07MB3978356FB249124CC950611ABBAF0MW2PR07MB3978namp_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Eric,

I think the ones you linked to are made for trucking stuff around the count= ry. Probably super heavy duty, more than you are looking for.

Try this section instead.


Uline stocks a wide selection of plastic storage bins, storage containers a= nd storage totes. Order by 6 pm for same day shipping. Huge Catalog! Over 3= 7,500 products in stock. 11 locations across USA, Canada and Mexico for fas= t delivery of storage bins.
www.uline.com

Brian Warrick
Nampa, ID
From: Shop-talk <shop-ta= lk-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of eric--- via Shop-talk <shop-t= alk@autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2020 12:12 PM
To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net <Shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: [Shop-talk] Reasonably priced storage bins
 
Hello all,

My next question is about bulk'ish pla= stic storage bins.

I'm looking for plastic storage bins, = around the size of 24"X15"X18".  Note, actual size is n= ot important, just around those dimensions approximately.

However, once you start looking into t= hese, the prices seem counter to buying a bunch.  I was thinking of bu= ying maybe 20 or 40 of these, but most would mean hundreds (or thousands) o= f dollars. In fact, Uline starts ONE of these containers (a little bit bigger than I need) for over $400 A PIECE!

https://www.uline.com/BL_8213/Plastic-Bulk-Contai= ners

Many of Amazon seem to be over $30 a p= iece.  I didn't want to spend that much on these.

Does anyone know of a good reasonable = alternative?  Is there maybe a place that sells them as surplus or som= ething?

Thanks.

I can't use cardboard, I am trying to = keep out mice and moisture (but it doesn't need to be airtight if the price= is right).  I would prefer something stackable, but if not, I can mak= e shelves. Again, exact size isn't important, but big enough to hold at least 5 binders would be a good start.
This is for storage of shop items and = such.

Thanks.

Mule

"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a ratio= nal being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." R= alph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John Galt?
--_000_MW2PR07MB3978356FB249124CC950611ABBAF0MW2PR07MB3978namp_-- --===============0684229740661630136== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0684229740661630136==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 27 12:56:09 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03116A0729 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:56:09 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ot1-f51.google.com (unknown [209.85.210.51]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AA1BA03C6 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:56:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-ot1-f51.google.com with SMTP id b13so28145068oti.3 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:56:04 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=JqUlC48vt6YyT74lAtsQaPk4xy4KiIAa8lSgiO2v3BQ=; b=gfzEtbJMasMqKKa284t/VdVkF8nq9FyxuXtLvI1apfQ6nzd2nkSxKwuBAw7E0+VgnL nRVZww+oH5iJYOD0nu+dtG/CEqJKLhD/FpESwWzvDd+Gpgte4oN9mmdDF42RnVZuDiA1 UemLTRoJ+Z8V3dDBCBMcWaPSCELT9rqMU0BL8tQszCvXTEOPIpeH1goOcbbby/goBYm+ pNCQOfx+mIu9ExDL2X7VcpsNniqCulIe774qKbabjvjxR3mDn0UJSZKpssuTDov1imP2 nu6oVN4dteoR3w8S9L058tmK9Pc0meDEIHsnIqk87ftkGWjGGgUXLzgGjuDsF6c26ShF KCsQ== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=JqUlC48vt6YyT74lAtsQaPk4xy4KiIAa8lSgiO2v3BQ=; b=eVtu8me9evE+x1W6ta1kkeX3eoH1EZfBnuoBxKfgpNm5bCjssq5L+csTzHrUoqSGs/ fgNYCsuSQOKsTtN7m+czLOzUVMUtjr85fTrUkz+sCSNxr5ZLd8PpVVsu1vGMv17m+X2r HMbNwikvQ/k4OYT64VTAElSzmRaMDX9WQoJ+qAklyCcIAojoDA4Wnw0uqfCxi6cPoxYh xIjroVeh2oh9F8/TlIs+KOaOaLYckZ7sg2qfmRRJPIPmK8bfgv0COcqwWF5alfmriDHD OMgcFO2hpLh99cG9lzmPwYwZAjZIUeVdy+dXrKClEN42EWDPsTn07Q2R3+1AeKlyZWKL W9EA== 0MAdKrpahAMXxlAmrjD3XT9ReS84RLP+eSU4avkirGxr Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:56:03 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:55:52 -0500 To: eric@megageek.com Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Reasonably priced storage bins From: John Innis via Shop-talk Cc: shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8205714320748428168== --0000000000004bb8da05a44a4419 I have been buying Akro Mils totes. Normally they run about $18 each, but you can occasionally find them on sale for as low as $13 each. I have only broken 1 (dropped on a concrete floor with almost 90lbs of tools in it), but other than that they have been great. They come in a variety of sizes and colors if that is important to you. I usually just buy whatever color is cheapest. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000189CSC/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_sNYPEb26KYSX6 On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 1:50 PM eric--- via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > Hello all, > > My next question is about bulk'ish plastic storage bins. > > I'm looking for plastic storage bins, around the size of 24"X15"X18". > Note, actual size is not important, just around those dimensions > approximately. > > However, once you start looking into these, the prices seem counter to > buying a bunch. I was thinking of buying maybe 20 or 40 of these, but most > would mean hundreds (or thousands) of dollars. In fact, Uline starts ONE of > these containers (a little bit bigger than I need) for over $400 A PIECE! > > *https://www.uline.com/BL_8213/Plastic-Bulk-Containers* > > > Many of Amazon seem to be over $30 a piece. I didn't want to spend that > much on these. > > Does anyone know of a good reasonable alternative? Is there maybe a place > that sells them as surplus or something? > > Thanks. > > I can't use cardboard, I am trying to keep out mice and moisture (but it > doesn't need to be airtight if the price is right). I would prefer > something stackable, but if not, I can make shelves. Again, exact size > isn't important, but big enough to hold at least 5 binders would be a good > start. > > This is for storage of shop items and such. > > Thanks. > > Mule > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > -Who is John Galt?_______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= --0000000000004bb8da05a44a4419 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have been buying Akro Mils totes.=C2=A0 Normally th= ey run about $18 each, but you can occasionally find them on sale for as lo= w as $13 each.=C2=A0 I have only broken 1 (dropped on a concrete floor with= almost 90lbs of tools in it), but other than that they have been great.=C2= =A0 They come in a variety of sizes and colors if that is important to you.= =C2=A0 I usually just buy whatever color is cheapest.

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 1:50 PM eric--- via = Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.t= eam.net> wrote:
Hello all,

My next question is about bulk'= ;ish plastic storage bins.

I'm looking for plastic storag= e bins, around the size of 24"X15"X18".=C2=A0 Note, actual size is not important, just around those dimensions approximately.

However, once you start looking in= to these, the prices seem counter to buying a bunch.=C2=A0 I was thinking of buying maybe 20 or 40 of these, but most would mean hundreds (or thousan= ds) of dollars. In fact, Uline starts ONE of these containers (a little bit bigger than I need) for over $400 A PIECE!

https://www.uline.com/BL_82= 13/Plastic-Bulk-Containers

Many of Amazon seem to be over $30= a piece.=C2=A0 I didn't want to spend that much on these.

Does anyone know of a good reasona= ble alternative?=C2=A0 Is there maybe a place that sells them as surplus or something?

Thanks.

I can't use cardboard, I am tr= ying to keep out mice and moisture (but it doesn't need to be airtight if the p= rice is right).=C2=A0 I would prefer something stackable, but if not, I can make shelves. Again, exact size isn't important, but big enough to hold at least 5 binders would be a good start.

This is for storage of shop items = and such.

Thanks.

Mule

"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a ratio= nal being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John Galt?_______________________________________________
Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/jdinnis@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te= am.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com



--
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D Never offend people with = style when you=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D
=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Bro= wn=C2=A0 =3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
--0000000000004bb8da05a44a4419-- --===============8205714320748428168== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8205714320748428168==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 27 13:09:13 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 565B5A0DEE for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:09:13 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from relay8-d.mail.gandi.net (unknown [217.70.183.201]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 153C5A0D39 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:09:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.135] (c-73-253-103-15.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [73.253.103.15]) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by relay8-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7144C1BF20B; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:09:04 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:09:02 -0400 To: eric@megageek.com References: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Reasonably priced storage bins From: Jim Franklin via Shop-talk Cc: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8198394178391489680== boundary="Apple-Mail=_F59C5FA5-4AB8-411B-BC87-D08035252E75" --Apple-Mail=_F59C5FA5-4AB8-411B-BC87-D08035252E75 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=us-ascii > On Apr 27, 2020, at 2:12 PM, eric--- via Shop-talk = wrote: >=20 > Hello all,=20 >=20 >=20 > I can't use cardboard, I am trying to keep out mice and moisture (but = it doesn't need to be airtight if the price is right). I would prefer = something stackable, but if not, I can make shelves. Again, exact size = isn't important, but big enough to hold at least 5 binders would be a = good start.=20 >=20 > This is for storage of shop items and such.=20 >=20 I have a garage full, and a work storage rack full, of Sterlite bins. A = million sizes and available everywhere -Target, Amazon, big box, = Staples... jim --Apple-Mail=_F59C5FA5-4AB8-411B-BC87-D08035252E75 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit charset=us-ascii

On Apr 27, 2020, at 2:12 PM, eric--- via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:

Hello all,


I can't use cardboard, I am trying to keep out mice and moisture (but it doesn't need to be airtight if the price is right).  I would prefer something stackable, but if not, I can make shelves. Again, exact size isn't important, but big enough to hold at least 5 binders would be a good start.

This is for storage of shop items and such.


I have a garage full, and a work storage rack full, of Sterlite bins. A million sizes and available everywhere -Target, Amazon, big box, Staples...

jim

--Apple-Mail=_F59C5FA5-4AB8-411B-BC87-D08035252E75-- --===============8198394178391489680== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8198394178391489680==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 27 13:26:56 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88DB4A118E for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:26:56 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-lf1-f45.google.com (unknown [209.85.167.45]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E9F6A07D5 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:26:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-lf1-f45.google.com with SMTP id r17so14843390lff.2 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:26:27 -0700 (PDT) d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1EzlPBs0wpTehNmDkSNpUX+6HrsYs/w2Kb/7bpSF6YA=; b=aQ2qMQvRNPF93S9lpuXFTB3MOyCOViIlq6dFOfkElgYqCVpVALGJHOEXTWGOOUUgTS Lbrn393p3YosRNpt01OcCEwoTERJy/4g+mT/cVROZnmRgNqzLySs/8eI2Z9gNgQn60cp h76sdqMY2DRIvjs0EN/ZMMWW+NAxIbPabLf3V60UlvbuQQMJaFpbrX8l5g5fyndDkuYe BB98dKcTCIDSi4RLYayA4M2TcDuqfYDKQNkGQKSXzAtIRw+062gcppc+cSWW9wrubzRr C9OHHxbkGXkosBG8slliWPmWsdiPXLgYVG4tzV6kQPSFdyIM94EIwXXYMnuIwCmcHXur AZig== F377CEPyHOLM5GWGWuRM51GmpZI6JS2mSyn4yIgunQqO Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:26:25 -0700 (PDT) References: Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:26:30 -0700 To: eric@megageek.com Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Reasonably priced storage bins From: Miq Millman via Shop-talk Cc: Shop Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8004683570742757860== --000000000000d9c8bc05a44ab034 I have 16 feet wide X 10 feet tall shelves in the garage built to hold these: https://www.target.com/p/sterilite-18-gal-storage-tote-brown/-/A-14757115 $6 each at Target. The shelves are made from 2x4 bolted to the wall studs horizontally (4" side to the wall) , then a ladder of 2x4's for the front (2" side to the front, vertical post every 5 feet), and 4x8 sheets of plywood (ripped full length in thirds to 16" deep). Been in use for almost 20 years, with me climbing on them to get to the top shelves. Probably have 3000 lbs of "precious stuff" on the wall (mostly car parts, but also house holiday decorations, camping etc.) The bins stick out about 10 inches when put in longitudinally, so I only do that orientation for light stuff. The distance between shelves is such that the lids rest against the rear 2x4. -- __ Miq Millman miq@bigllama.com Tualatin, OR Big Llama Productions On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 11:12 AM eric--- via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > Hello all, > > My next question is about bulk'ish plastic storage bins. > > I'm looking for plastic storage bins, around the size of 24"X15"X18". > Note, actual size is not important, just around those dimensions > approximately. > > However, once you start looking into these, the prices seem counter to > buying a bunch. I was thinking of buying maybe 20 or 40 of these, but most > would mean hundreds (or thousands) of dollars. In fact, Uline starts ONE of > these containers (a little bit bigger than I need) for over $400 A PIECE! > > *https://www.uline.com/BL_8213/Plastic-Bulk-Containers* > > > Many of Amazon seem to be over $30 a piece. I didn't want to spend that > much on these. > > Does anyone know of a good reasonable alternative? Is there maybe a place > that sells them as surplus or something? > > Thanks. > > I can't use cardboard, I am trying to keep out mice and moisture (but it > doesn't need to be airtight if the price is right). I would prefer > something stackable, but if not, I can make shelves. Again, exact size > isn't important, but big enough to hold at least 5 binders would be a good > start. > > This is for storage of shop items and such. > > Thanks. > > Mule > > "Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational > being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph > Waldo Emerson > -Who is John Galt?_______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/miq@bigllama.com > > --000000000000d9c8bc05a44ab034 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have 16 feet wide X 10 feet tall shelves in the garage b= uilt to hold these:

$6 eac= h at Target.

The shelves are made from 2x4 bolted = to the wall studs horizontally (4" side to the wall) , then a ladder o= f 2x4's for the front (2" side to the front, vertical post every 5= feet), and 4x8 sheets of plywood (ripped full length in thirds to 16"= deep).=C2=A0 Been in use for almost 20 years, with me climbing on them to = get to the top shelves.=C2=A0 Probably have 3000 lbs of "precious stuf= f" on the=C2=A0wall (mostly car parts, but also house holiday decorati= ons, camping etc.)

The bins stick out about 10 inc= hes when put in longitudinally, so I only do that orientation for light stu= ff.=C2=A0 The distance between shelves is such that the lids rest against t= he rear 2x4.

=C2=A0
--__
Miq Millman=C2=A0=C2=A0 miq@bigllama.com
Tualatin, OR=C2=A0 Big Llama Production= s


On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 11:12 AM eric--- via Sho= p-talk <shop-talk@autox.team= .net> wrote:
Hello all,

My next question is about bulk'= ;ish plastic storage bins.

I'm looking for plastic storag= e bins, around the size of 24"X15"X18".=C2=A0 Note, actual size is not important, just around those dimensions approximately.

However, once you start looking in= to these, the prices seem counter to buying a bunch.=C2=A0 I was thinking of buying maybe 20 or 40 of these, but most would mean hundreds (or thousan= ds) of dollars. In fact, Uline starts ONE of these containers (a little bit bigger than I need) for over $400 A PIECE!

https://www.uline.com/BL_82= 13/Plastic-Bulk-Containers

Many of Amazon seem to be over $30= a piece.=C2=A0 I didn't want to spend that much on these.

Does anyone know of a good reasona= ble alternative?=C2=A0 Is there maybe a place that sells them as surplus or something?

Thanks.

I can't use cardboard, I am tr= ying to keep out mice and moisture (but it doesn't need to be airtight if the p= rice is right).=C2=A0 I would prefer something stackable, but if not, I can make shelves. Again, exact size isn't important, but big enough to hold at least 5 binders would be a good start.

This is for storage of shop items = and such.

Thanks.

Mule

"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a ratio= nal being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John Galt?_______________________________________________
Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/miq@bigllama.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.tea= m.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/miq@bigllama.com

--000000000000d9c8bc05a44ab034-- --===============8004683570742757860== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8004683570742757860==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 27 13:41:05 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C485FA1290 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:41:05 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from anteater.elm.relay.mailchannels.net (unknown [23.83.212.3]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDE1DA1212 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:40:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85DFA340C69 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:40:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a22.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-23-11.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.23.11]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 0CBE2340C01 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:40:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a22.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.6); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:40:55 +0000 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a22.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a22.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5F6D7EFBA for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:40:53 -0700 (PDT) :to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=milleredp.com; bh=qRp U6n8PJ4G+PoXT4V6CssIG/S0=; b=dLYdjpX1QOpEZgOAhBqeqkgAo4AcUwilpH6 gbV/5pf8RAabgtjouu/C34d6x13ahaBjk+kzUIj87i0lOxHcgkuJT9tKs4UojhI8 Fg0hjNOS0E1gA5oaYR3BaCyRejySxyr6/Qwhsxn4h42oYP1wultWxCj3ERl672qW wz7UfMC4= Received: from [10.1.2.175] (c-67-161-16-174.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.161.16.174]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jem@milleredp.com) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a22.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 813217EFB9 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:40:53 -0700 (PDT) To: shop-talk@autox.team.net References: <860242C2-5875-4DA0-8C1C-76AB6B3BB62C@groupwbench.org> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:40:51 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Reasonably priced storage bins From: John Miller via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > I have a garage full, and a work storage rack full, of Sterlite bins. A > million sizes and available everywhere -Target, Amazon, big box, Staples... True, but they're not that durable, and if you leave one out in the sun for a couple weeks it fractures like thousand-year-old pottery. I have a bunch of them too, but have to turn them over about as quickly as the mulch in the front yard. John. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 27 13:46:48 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6AD5A14AB for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:46:48 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ot1-f41.google.com (unknown [209.85.210.41]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8220A0AC8 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:45:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-ot1-f41.google.com with SMTP id m18so28359938otq.9 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:45:31 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=P2TPC379fLEqX2M+jmGUJB/2jY+eMOzM0OvSZos9hVw=; b=ApUffG8J0qMhuzIgEM6OY6gNZOR2yt2Yf35M9l+4o4tn+BPv6VFpmjfcA90mioDGB4 A0Ho8+aB4jDtgaW+NIJalro84RcYR696aZndWt0RBksHoYCova12XMDKeiT/20a/M0SV 0M6OUlTQKh6060ysHeoTETm/SZ70tqrbVE5D/tttP3sFFkUppnSdl/+88EcaqIo6lRFU WZxYbuW3YlVqQLen3nGOP6OZq1tfmZQchM7nCbaZLYdLgR4bclUnKADKGavsUPioVDZY bIz5eKkjDxEs9ZxcGveMgepGJ5ihjQJ2Pi63QYRmvjLeaFx2+i6/xFLh3gsSMR93EhDF jY2Q== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=P2TPC379fLEqX2M+jmGUJB/2jY+eMOzM0OvSZos9hVw=; b=UYLeAMU+M3dAFSjOHyYGchLG3erueD6FYnYS4ee24Dao4KfjlHxwU7XH5Ktwb3xcKK S3WEs/hn63EvXqrZ9KwxV3wGGOvTWY0n4xNta9v846gPbt7WLBSY1+VEYbA1LP0ebmcS AZhDFLMNo3+d6g2Jv3wDJGMHIUX6rBQb3NWb/VOr6yBXhfy+QBwomYTIQnmfD3+qjgAc YlcWnSoTIspSSsG/LtEfV4Y1NHjImmjeIiXLySs0MBrz6j6g2LqMszDlDVUUqCRpXi8u uq86y80RtxyBcwx1EB19xEDwEH1+MXYZlCVBqP0+FQVDofU9m8DigsnFFqtnhjqsO7jF MgUQ== frD9MDrJUCL4hClg353U6EdUz5mUrR5297hcIzSLNg== Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:45:30 -0700 (PDT) References: <860242C2-5875-4DA0-8C1C-76AB6B3BB62C@groupwbench.org> <280ed03d-f014-566f-1818-bd8dccc2b85c@milleredp.com> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:45:18 -0500 To: John Miller Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Reasonably priced storage bins From: John Innis via Shop-talk Cc: shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============4019947637017636395== --00000000000019a76d05a44af543 This is my experience with sterlite bins as well. I wish I could still get the smaller rubberized bins, I have a bunch of these that are more than 20 years old and holding up great. The Sterlite ones I bought about 5 years ago are all starting to crack. On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 2:41 PM John Miller via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > > I have a garage full, and a work storage rack full, of Sterlite bins. A > > million sizes and available everywhere -Target, Amazon, big box, > Staples... > > True, but they're not that durable, and if you leave one out in the sun > for a couple weeks it fractures like thousand-year-old pottery. > > I have a bunch of them too, but have to turn them over about as quickly > as the mulch in the front yard. > > John. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com > > -- ================================= = Never offend people with style when you = = can offend with substance --- Sam Brown = ================================= --00000000000019a76d05a44af543 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is my experience with sterlite bins as well.=C2=A0 I = wish I could still get the smaller rubberized bins, I have a bunch of these= that are more than 20 years old and holding up great.=C2=A0 The Sterlite o= nes I bought about 5 years ago are all starting to crack.

On Mon, Apr 27= , 2020 at 2:41 PM John Miller via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
> I have a garage full, and a w= ork storage rack full, of Sterlite bins. A
> million sizes and available everywhere -Target, Amazon, big box, Stapl= es...

True, but they're not that durable, and if you leave one out in the sun=
for a couple weeks it fractures like thousand-year-old pottery.

I have a bunch of them too, but have to turn them over about as quickly as the mulch in the front yard.

John.
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/jdinnis@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.te= am.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com



--
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D Never offend people with = style when you=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D
=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Bro= wn=C2=A0 =3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
--00000000000019a76d05a44af543-- --===============4019947637017636395== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============4019947637017636395==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 27 13:55:26 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39FCBA1524 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:55:26 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (unknown [167.206.4.204]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E22B9A144F for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:55:17 -0600 (MDT) bh=GFyPuX2b1XgxyJTn5SXK6+aihBIURQFxuwTCPVk3Nrk=; h=Message-ID:Date:To:From:Subject; b=AMk9xxBw+R5xzb7Rye6GJeHg3dsKrS7XXQIJhUkYTWJCZ5I1uoZ0lDlCTS3x5gs4T DkUaTVv/UgOqtFqHnHXhymMN5pHQpBmR1CLsWWlkW+RanhKgBdFzqxCXBZTaQPKdtx +xgCc6XW6llk7X0TDp8vYxWziLQAgdgJDggjPEEfhX7062s762ZGqxSs6hq9aWoBj/ HfTWNzZEK+G0fA+BjMx3Yo56SfMUnnoGbCctpXxHDvjNn/jgaFje34+fZK130QrmDv h+luEn8Z/x4nM8oT2Z4bkbBsyQ1z+0LvJaQcfpDvM394kwaGLWJ2grl9iTkFr5t+Ko IzPIPYS1E6RwA== Authentication-Results: mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net smtp.user=strovato; auth=pass (LOGIN) a=IBeqreNX0NbDiaMtWAF5wQ==:117 a=IBeqreNX0NbDiaMtWAF5wQ==:17 a=HpEJnUlJZJkA:10 a=y5Rj0mRZAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=RREohXn8QP9YEltfduMA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=RyDeC1R-v7S_JGIUJlMA:9 a=kWbkhaSAGHd95wOA:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 Received: from [67.83.27.177] ([67.83.27.177:59247] helo=Steve-PC.optonline.net) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.9.48312 r(Core:3.6.9.0)) with ESMTPA id B3/47-13587-3A837AE5; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:55:16 -0400 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:55:06 -0400 To: eric@megageek.com mail.com> References: Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Reasonably priced storage bins From: Steven Trovato via Shop-talk Cc: shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============7029410289893336886== boundary="=====================_201168702==.ALT" --=====================_201168702==.ALT Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a bunch of these Akro Mils totes: https://www.walmart.com/ip/seort= /22936496 I used to get them with clear lids, but lately I don't see them offered that way. I really don't care that much about the lid color. The clear box is nice so I can see what is inside. The gray one that John posted looks a bit heavier duty, though. -Steve T. At 02:55 PM 4/27/2020, John Innis via Shop-talk wrote: >I have been buying Akro Mils totes.=C2 Normally >they run about $18 each, but you can >occasionally find them on sale for as low as $13 >each.=C2 I have only broken 1 (dropped on a >concrete floor with almost 90lbs of tools in >it), but other than that they have been >great.=C2 They come in a variety of sizes and >colors if that is important to you.=C2 I usually >just buy whatever color is cheapest. -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --=====================_201168702==.ALT Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a bunch of these Akro Mils totes: 

https://www.walmart.com/ip/seort/22936496

I used to get them with clear lids, but lately I don't see them offered that way.  I really don't care that much about the lid color.  The clear box is nice so I can see what is inside.  The gray one that John posted looks a bit heavier duty, though. 

-Steve T.

At 02:55 PM 4/27/2020, John Innis via Shop-talk wrote:
I have been buying Akro Mils= totes.=C2  Normally they run about $18 each, but you can occasionally find them on sale for as low as $13 each.=C2  I have only broken 1 (dropped on a concrete floor with almost 90lbs of tools in it), but other than that they have been great.=C2  They come in a variety of sizes and colors if that is important to you.=C2  I usually just buy whatever color is cheapest.

3D"" Virus-= free. www.avast.com
--=====================_201168702==.ALT-- --===============7029410289893336886== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7029410289893336886==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 27 14:29:25 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 873B2A13E1 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:29:25 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ot1-f54.google.com (unknown [209.85.210.54]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD2AAA10B6 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:29:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-ot1-f54.google.com with SMTP id c3so28630943otp.8 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:29:19 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ypNlX5+drF/bNDDJHwwTn+A6+XnelnLmK99yl8wqSgA=; b=NmQRcJnVIv85SGSL+RZM1dUGYsrLEVcga5rukH9dyZlqF6E/74OsFygom8w69zV9LW 7KhPjsGqFeG8l5OCaudGG+uiw8EkN1AYk3w3O+j3WwYDf+RcLdI7KWYuw86icrl66IsY IrfYlBNrnSy0OSwqAYh60qa1f1c1Si0tUhFrfyw7lSfA2+VBSllRIVNRkDlRTBzlYyzl fQvPzUEJCIHHl1JocKhX74O6ncDKsQjemUwodRN6qZARHEFHm+hC9mFFVVMn39SBUVKs LDoKK8wfid0yHSlmRn9RDNUMvHK/34u43izuIe+mPh1G/zTmQy2TvY2qCylzehjbDHWj RNcQ== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=ypNlX5+drF/bNDDJHwwTn+A6+XnelnLmK99yl8wqSgA=; b=UFDrq4f4mk3weJK3MfiwPK56OwfbffmKpYf9j3fsl/IoNlWe68aK2K8C0U3JPKIg3r 1mh30DTL29K+euiriTBB2Kgx2U0kmLd3U7Rbzpc+70qDQ1fII5o/CyPbIifSqaSoarIr AC4T97qJFwhHksFCgDI4yFtcJocbDgSiAb5C91MPqqQ8WhtMfKuk2+DIXBvXbCtSJCOv tBnRLnWS7/D/jFH7abPcI5vyJUc/fYU/d4VuuNRNRIAcjw3976xTV76oRnopdeG2fAvv L4qGw2WDcGreKxgB8q2pKgsdvjQBY5n8XcypyJbpq2IDADlXoXy92YozMiAaz6W+Sgj6 nvvw== +r1014q5E++4hj0y0oj/Wlp/nbzD9N/HBNx9UoPdew== Mon, 27 Apr 2020 13:29:18 -0700 (PDT) References: <860242C2-5875-4DA0-8C1C-76AB6B3BB62C@groupwbench.org> <280ed03d-f014-566f-1818-bd8dccc2b85c@milleredp.com> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:28:42 -0500 To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Reasonably priced storage bins From: Scott Hall via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============0919831500810224742== --000000000000c5f48d05a44b91e9 I'm glad someone else noticed this. I left one out in the sun on the deck. There was a hail storm. My car was outside, my truck, some plastic plant pots and that Sterlite container. The car and truck were fine--not a ding. The Sterlite container and one of the pots just...*exploded*. I'm still finding particles of the Sterlite under the deck. Dangest thing I've ever seen. On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 2:41 PM John Miller via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > > I have a garage full, and a work storage rack full, of Sterlite bins. A > > million sizes and available everywhere -Target, Amazon, big box, > Staples... > > True, but they're not that durable, and if you leave one out in the sun > for a couple weeks it fractures like thousand-year-old pottery. > > I have a bunch of them too, but have to turn them over about as quickly > as the mulch in the front yard. > > John. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/scott.hall.personal@gmail.com > > --000000000000c5f48d05a44b91e9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm glad someone else noticed this. I left one out in = the sun on the deck. There was a hail storm. My car was outside, my truck, = some plastic plant pots and that Sterlite container. The car and truck were= fine--not a ding. The Sterlite container and one of the pots just...*explo= ded*. I'm still finding particles of the Sterlite under the deck. Dange= st thing I've ever seen.

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 2:41 PM John Miller v= ia Shop-talk <shop-talk@auto= x.team.net> wrote:
> I have a garage full, and a work storage rack full, of Ster= lite bins. A
> million sizes and available everywhere -Target, Amazon, big box, Stapl= es...

True, but they're not that durable, and if you leave one out in the sun=
for a couple weeks it fractures like thousand-year-old pottery.

I have a bunch of them too, but have to turn them over about as quickly as the mulch in the front yard.

John.
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/scott.hall.personal@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">htt= p://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/scott.hall.personal@gmail.com<= /a>

--000000000000c5f48d05a44b91e9-- --===============0919831500810224742== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============0919831500810224742==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 27 16:32:00 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 829BFA116C for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:32:00 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sonic304-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (unknown [66.163.191.148]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C96A7A06BE for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:31:33 -0600 (MDT) t=1588026692; bh=QzdtzqpQYFWTW6GbivGCA4kHnEDAiwUjWVW84GOlFlI=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=QOMTILOG1b0pAwj99x3lE4lZMqsZJxaLUeGcxOnRz6USRgGuLXG5h0BlAQhKCMEsIEkMBzJzqkuVcEjE6+GbT9E/8DJKHKVTTRNpP4lnbiA4cu48xFSP3obQpcSR8AQri+s5IjXencVW2cLTF5cMtEbNoasAr1s+nzXH0Ef63nX/zXDPIszm+ZTFvnmBsFXcdS7UIHGQrXUUikVWxoIIKs7ivnSeO4ApE6+nELFUCy51HjmbCGuWp1JNVl9SHeV2n7H+osC6B2q/9wCS87jyR9VAYvzbDyBaHzH1gXkxDO/u3BNZ8Hq/VMsh278M+ZkHURNir9MgecXgKIen6A5LYg== DgTfF9NhVkRWQKv3k_4ezeJcn7cN.oPmoid00qc97PMUnaTMQg4_vdAH4CLfS6qPFft5_wwMQ0ZG 0sDDQMVwaHU4IOQoBDDQrnBRkoQYfmPpwCKDc5xAOpwTFyK2Tev0b6Y6W60CJrpOzkQI.fMkfVk_ xMqnDz9mpXwWJ3uQ_02Y3A0WeNcNVzCFb550HC.losVmtnddEePkpQBGImp8n1ZdmbNovpKhYAm. ncum.QXbjJ9S_PklJr66ZyIgu_DiDuZOLZySq_8OGAY4KxCITxCPFfVZKyJO4uaWG2clSR46hn_o DmIYY7rXA6N4c0r8Hkmz0H8.HlsuRbygDesTEyhY4lpc47BfAW6fFRE0wfRumAM_X3pJHhC_vf4n OtozeV6xiyJcZIwbRVQBAlbeFAjNyI.E.M6f8p_lr5CsNjNPfZOykAKxfVMvMKpOpDtl00l5FVUX qgjaCDgZMqQnvB8DiupNMTBBZjVip7_arr3aWo.JUFBduAxZFulFsro0sBqm3UUnUdmfhbcnUHgg LXLIteCRSjG0JT8O5RRhaEMzSwsfpmLyr7.dEikYtXNBq.8UOviBWww2eK9GpA5LYQ16gHjeu_d8 zdJgvX0sGd7X6K_Df.hLYqXRRGhewCEO8LBK2iYxUiJ9BPRnhxzxQjIHeNlaOxjxYhIxrSh3Alea Zo7ZjUOf4c1z4w4CaT.vyJIhhPKPu2413e2r6v2ozVXb8i7AwyEhwEDoWhhCYdshfEDS12VoNhTA a69iGt4PpjVlrQz0WOOc9vzJUXmndp90wwulY9l8nhGQfTlw8kpNPLwBTIy.okJtWbx251fKFL8a yz6aEGrCFnpe9uG56hJkiXki.y8x6wt1uwnT_6V4H_0QWXBQLNpTihTTi0a_SQUzTKFd_KTkyknB DFHx0P5ydFKV35QRQbWIljRv4SsKmXsSWn.vP.cvnQVTsSJ0.._7am2Kk8i1QSlr0NAQw06_2gc6 G0GsJMcIoMyOYNZwMODr2yGeMfLcIaej5dZbZfyBdmUd3vNkrmZfvazyLL5K9N7k1l_G3qt_pg_N 7g4_OJ_Mo7sQrVe.403o38Y7a3nifi_Oux5kHvNqDIeN1u6sS.4fAgPt0yVvb0vYxtWOEwgjHg1R CcSK1sNTo6fgPaBxs5l3WmCzx_vI61uAnAubmYMgkaGb8N5eee_W0YCqsA3GPH23G0uvl069fu_x 2nJLl9XjXM3buCNO6BrTg0oa.uvQEHiFVcJAuua46xiBRHOYGrPHnxkSgVY9d.K3h1Cskcnfm.y0 I Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic304.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:31:32 +0000 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:31:29 +0000 (UTC) To: shoptalk References: x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/79.0.3945.88 Safari/537.36 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] OT flash drives From: Battmain via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3261683894350645220== boundary="----=_Part_1230493_1213539086.1588026689626" ------=_Part_1230493_1213539086.1588026689626 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am also using a NAS. I got hit some time ago by a botnet when I was play= ing with the ftp port forwarding to use with the security cams. Somehow the= y found the port and I was getting hit with 6 logins attempts per second. I= t was pretty interesting to watch while I let it go, but I got alerted pret= ty much immediately and the IPs were blocked almost immediately too. IPs we= re from all over the world per the lookup tool.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I have added so= me more routers and adding some enterprise level firewalls now. I also unde= rstand I am not as smart as some of the people out there, but it sure keeps= the brain actively learning and I am loving my NAS.=C2=A0=C2=A0 As for the drives, I usually google review on the brand/size first and dete= rmine if the losses are worth the risk.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Just like physical driv= es, I have found over the years that true=C2=A0 capacity is occasionally ov= erstated. As someone mentioned, the cheaper drives don't seem to last as lo= ng.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I also make it spend a few hours/days doing a real format = instead of a quick format.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Check out the NAS route and see if i= t might work for you. Many of them use=C2=A0 hot swappable ports and you ca= n do any RAID combination you wish.=C2=A0 Also automated backups and file s= yncing is well worth the setup and reading time.=C2=A0=C2=A0 On Monday, March 16, 2020, 11:13:36 PM EST, John Innis via Shop-talk wrote: =20 =20 I have had mixed results with these.=C2=A0 Actually pretty much the same r= esults I see with flash-based drives.=C2=A0 The cheap ones seem to fail oft= en, where the good ones seem to last forever.=C2=A0 Forever meaning at leas= t a few years.=C2=A0 I have had a number of mechanical drives fail while si= tting on the shelf for years at a time.=C2=A0 Flash seems less susceptible = to the bit rot issue.=C2=A0 Generally speaking, you want your backups runni= ng on drives that are hooked up and updating.=C2=A0 Preferably in a RAID ar= rangement that provides some level of redundancy.=C2=A0 If you don't want t= o go the RAID route, rotate drives so your backups are redundant.=C2=A0=20 A note on cloud based services.=C2=A0 They are generally very good at what = they do, but there are different risk when using the cloud.=C2=A0 For examp= le this week an un-patched bug was announced in windows 10 that could have = security implications for some cloud based services.=C2=A0 There is a risk = that hackers could get in and steal your data or ransom it.=C2=A0 Cloud is = great for off site backup in the event of fire or other local disaster, and= for getting data to other locations, but I would not trust is as my only s= ource of backups. On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 2:00 PM Doug Braun via Shop-talk wrote: A USB portable hard drive (the real, spinning kind) should be much more rel= iable than a run-of-the-mill USB flash drive, as long as you don't handle i= t roughly. Doug On Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 8:26 AM Tim . via Shop-talk wrote: Sending this inquiry to you all since I know there are more than a few IT g= uys in this group..... I bought three 512GB flash drives for archiving here at work. One locked up= in each of our offices and one for me to add to files as necessary as file= s are amended. They have approximately 450GB on them. One of the three failed as soon as I finished filling it. I bought a differ= ent brand and made a replacement copy for the safe in our Madison office. A= second, the same brand as the first one that failed is locked up in our MK= E office and will also be replaced now because the third one (the one that = has amended archived files) is also failing. I am having a hard time retrie= ving the amended files before this drive takes a final crap on me. It took = over 15 hours to pull one 87MB file from the dying drive. I can't even atte= mpt to pull more than one file at a time. Not that this should matter, but = the files are mixed word, pdf, saved outlook emails and miscellaneous audio= or video files and possibly other items.=C2=A0 What I am wondering/hoping is that someone might know of a solution to this= nearly impossible retrieval process. Or am I just screwed here?=C2=A0 Next year we will be storing everything in the cloud so I won't have to dea= l with this PITA process.=C2=A0 Thankstim_______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch= ive ugbraun.com _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch= ive @gmail.com --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D Never offend people with style when you=C2=A0=C2=A0 =3D =3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown=C2=A0 =3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch= ive n@yahoo.com =20 ------=_Part_1230493_1213539086.1588026689626 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am also using a NAS. I got= hit some time ago by a botnet when I was playing with the ftp port forward= ing to use with the security cams. Somehow they found the port and I was ge= tting hit with 6 logins attempts per second. It was pretty interesting to w= atch while I let it go, but I got alerted pretty much immediately and the I= Ps were blocked almost immediately too. IPs were from all over the world pe= r the lookup tool.   I have added some more routers and adding so= me enterprise level firewalls now. I also understand I am not as smart as s= ome of the people out there, but it sure keeps the brain actively learning = and I am loving my NAS.  

As for the drives, I = usually google review on the brand/size first and determine if the losses a= re worth the risk.   Just like physical drives, I have found over= the years that true  capacity is occasionally overstated. As someone = mentioned, the cheaper drives don't seem to last as long.    I al= so make it spend a few hours/days doing a real format instead of a quick fo= rmat.   Check out the NAS route and see if it might work for you.= Many of them use  hot swappable ports and you can do any RAID combina= tion you wish.  Also automated backups and file syncing is well worth = the setup and reading time.  

=20
=20
On Monday, March 16, 2020, 11:13:36 PM EST, John Innis = via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:


I= have had mixed results with these.  Actually pretty much the same res= ults I see with flash-based drives.  The cheap ones seem to fail often= , where the good ones seem to last forever.  Forever meaning at least = a few years.  I have had a number of mechanical drives fail while sitt= ing on the shelf for years at a time.  Flash seems less susceptible to= the bit rot issue.  Generally speaking, you want your backups running= on drives that are hooked up and updating.  Preferably in a RAID arra= ngement that provides some level of redundancy.  If you don't want to = go the RAID route, rotate drives so your backups are redundant. 
A note on cloud based services.  They are gen= erally very good at what they do, but there are different risk when using t= he cloud.  For example this week an un-patched bug was announced in wi= ndows 10 that could have security implications for some cloud based service= s.  There is a risk that hackers could get in and steal your data or r= ansom it.  Cloud is great for off site backup in the event of fire or = other local disaster, and for getting data to other locations, but I would = not trust is as my only source of backups.


On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 2:00 PM D= oug Braun via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
<= /div>
=
A USB portable hard drive (the real, spinning kind) should be much more = reliable than a run-of-the-mill USB flash drive, as long as you don't handl= e it roughly.

Doug
=
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020, 8:26 AM Tim . via = Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
Sending this inquiry to you all since I know there are more than a few IT g= uys in this group.....

I bought three 512GB flash drives for archiving here at work. One locked up= in each of our offices and one for me to add to files as necessary as file= s are amended. They have approximately 450GB on them.

One of the three failed as soon as I finished filling it. I bought a differ= ent brand and made a replacement copy for the safe in our Madison office. A= second, the same brand as the first one that failed is locked up in our MK= E office and will also be replaced now because the third one (the one that has amended archived files) is als= o failing. I am having a hard time retrieving the amended files before this= drive takes a final crap on me. It took over 15 hours to pull one 87MB fil= e from the dying drive. I can't even attempt to pull more than one file at a time. Not that this should ma= tter, but the files are mixed word, pdf, saved outlook emails and miscellan= eous audio or video files and possibly other items. 

What I am wondering/hoping is that someone might know of a solution to this= nearly impossible retrieval process. Or am I just screwed here? 

Next year we will be storing everything in the cloud so I won't have to dea= l with this PITA process. 

Thanks
tim
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@au= tox.team.net
/www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk= http://autox.team.net/archive

ef=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/doug@dougbraun.com">h= ttp://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/doug@dougbraun.com

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@au= tox.team.net
/www.team.net/donate.html">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk= http://autox.team.net/archive

nk" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.c= om">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/jdinnis@gmail.com


--
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D
=3D Never offend people with style when you&nbs= p;  =3D
=3D can offend with substance --- Sam Brown&= nbsp; =3D

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=
------=_Part_1230493_1213539086.1588026689626-- --===============3261683894350645220== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3261683894350645220==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 27 20:56:21 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09EFDA1585 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:56:21 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (unknown [209.86.89.62]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82256A105F for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:55:05 -0600 (MDT) s=dk12062016; t=1588042505; bh=2egScNfynfqtngaEa7Rms9YgjhR6nYjGdT0i +Cv5O20=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Message-ID: Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer: Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; b=XQjD9KS+i5RHUjIBQ1TN Y9l7sT1H1fILcIAZ/EMbetMpDoX5UYa2lw7UTFMNQv36bjgkgqccorRmq4iKuGnRWEY SlwimSHzNu+BXQdYkis81i3vpwBn15mwUtafSfkXILru437Wmf0VhFB9FmRcNHLNEzc 7dXKV5TKLN9iHQun66jcA5C8e6liUUpOufQtqI5Orma22p6L2xsMBU8+4njOBjsGsuA //fBJX/MZeHDz1uUSGF0GHhgGbfviG4FH4wHgIFOkKDzoaK4gFpgUHWhTwvyue5MINC 0jJ2tEI4IjHj8zweglxaomQ5przYRzR5vQzzRcivFDjzNhEHguE6Kg== DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk12062016; d=earthlink.net; b=DUQUHpkyzmVXB1hOtj9W4qEqGgxuT9buuYO1J3h/ZF4hZ+Aq/4okxSEMDT/TFEZez6T7RK/Tgji5oLtfELS7KM4cXqDjhdzPt4/m1mDqk5iJ1hKfzMWskx7M7EahPAQzf29sbiGW7X+LD+Ss3QAiWuT5WpFl8vyLiEk8sdXT5J7niImUVAzL7pMv4UCg6AYwWERg9lLA6Vtej1i4SkLDaEg2fuz9mxgZm3h8wKWnGSS8h9TnItkspYxBt9JNqwPqaZi68GP9fjl9Q7NOBdVjJtCVupuQR1o1Ql4LjNTxC7KvlYmDWWhCLSPi+ZtR7Fe3Em6N8N+ORjv2xGKJY92jDA==; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.167] (helo=wamui-cheeto.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256:128) (Exim 4) (envelope-from ) id 1jTGOm-0009Ih-NS; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:55:04 -0400 Received: from 184.181.124.168 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:55:04 -0400 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:55:04 -0700 (GMT-07:00) To: eric@megageek.com, Shop-talk@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Reasonably priced storage bins From: Brian Kemp via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============1263242972068418985== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
If you are a Costco member, they typically have something around that size in the warehouses.  They go on sale periodically to save even more.

Not seeing them online at Costco, but think they are still in the store near me.  Here is a sample when they were on sale in December at $6 each.

https://www.frugalhotspot.com/2016/01/costco-sale-incredible-solutions-27-gallon-plastic-storage-bin-6-99/


Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: eric--- via Shop-talk
Sent: Apr 27, 2020 11:12 AM
To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: [Shop-talk] Reasonably priced storage bins

Hello all,

My next question is about bulk'ish plastic storage bins.

I'm looking for plastic storage bins, around the size of 24"X15"X18".  Note, actual size is not important, just around those dimensions approximately.

However, once you start looking into these, the prices seem counter to buying a bunch.  I was thinking of buying maybe 20 or 40 of these, but most would mean hundreds (or thousands) of dollars. In fact, Uline starts ONE of these containers (a little bit bigger than I need) for over $400 A PIECE!

https://www.uline.com/BL_8213/Plastic-Bulk-Containers

Many of Amazon seem to be over $30 a piece.  I didn't want to spend that much on these.

Does anyone know of a good reasonable alternative?  Is there maybe a place that sells them as surplus or something?

Thanks.

I can't use cardboard, I am trying to keep out mice and moisture (but it doesn't need to be airtight if the price is right).  I would prefer something stackable, but if not, I can make shelves. Again, exact size isn't important, but big enough to hold at least 5 binders would be a good start.

This is for storage of shop items and such.

Thanks.

Mule

"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John Galt?
--===============1263242972068418985== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1263242972068418985==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 27 21:08:56 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B38CA16D9 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:08:56 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from resqmta-po-07v.sys.comcast.net (unknown [96.114.154.166]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 954A0A167E for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:08:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from resomta-po-05v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.229]) by resqmta-po-07v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id TGSCjgFQIdEXaTGc8jCnTi; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 03:08:52 +0000 s=20190202a; t=1588043332; bh=YUaiqk3INTi+3CWlsVqIM3oIUoemEL9x9Immv5/Z1FU=; h=Received:Received:MIME-Version:To:From:Subject:Date:Content-Type; b=hFl7QQc4l2Tp7GKNL1IB0+zPrWfqdprWTmnoUOlnTzvt7mc4t/boemwnUTDWRdf5T uVdYgZRhDClD3iuFbcKCAjOdCmzv8ff7whHTi4DxzjIriRHLMuZ1TF6SRQ8BQQBILR brGnKlqy6JoRSe8fMIAjhC5q5occM5pgeBkXGkWjDXm5yd3WTL2h2O4jQdEzv+npri Lih4krgga4nmOAm0gfs1ovrGG+WX+Y8WtJjqsLAc0yjB8Le7mLKcI/FdsLIdytkxfK wJu0KCRLK1dcGnHJDaCNp3jkEqe3njxyTp8yqjXPQwt1nEGcO+6OU4h6v0gAtA2Ony ykIpGWJlsCdsg== Received: from [IPv6:2601:600:4300:8140:59b8:8588:cda6:75ff] ([IPv6:2601:600:4300:8140:59b8:8588:cda6:75ff]) by resomta-po-05v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id TGc2jjbtMQFknTGc3j6PEr; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 03:08:51 +0000 To: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 20:08:51 -0700 Importance: normal References: <349359594.13616.1588042504634@wamui-cheeto.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Reasonably priced storage bins From: Bob Kegel via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============2964201944322458621== boundary="_0681D681-15C7-4118-AC5D-FB8819A21C1B_" --_0681D681-15C7-4118-AC5D-FB8819A21C1B_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =E2=80=9CIf you are a Costco member=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D If you=E2=80=99re not, Home Depot has them for $8.98. https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-27-Gal-Tough-Storage-Bin-in-Black-HDX27GONL= INE-5/205978361 Bob K --_0681D681-15C7-4118-AC5D-FB8819A21C1B_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=E2=80=9CIf you are a Costco member= =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D

 

If you=E2=80=99re not,=C2=A0 Home Depo= t has them for $8.98.

 = ;

https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-27-= Gal-Tough-Storage-Bin-in-Black-HDX27GONLINE-5/205978361

 

Bob K

=

 

= --_0681D681-15C7-4118-AC5D-FB8819A21C1B_-- --===============2964201944322458621== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============2964201944322458621==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Apr 27 22:57:20 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE3BCA180C for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:57:20 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from bradakis.com (unknown [50.198.190.18]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBD6AA1719 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:57:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bradakis.com (bradakis.com [50.198.190.18]) by bradakis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C28D91C0044 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:57:15 -0600 (MDT) To: "Shop-talk@autox.team.net" Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 22:57:15 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Content-Language: en-US Subject: [Shop-talk] Quick note on list archives From: Mark J Bradakis via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Rm9yIGEgd2hpbGUgbm93IHRoZSBzZWFyY2ggZnVuY3Rpb24gaW4gdGhlIG1oYXJjIGFyY2hpdmVz IGhhcyBiZWVuIApicm9rZW4uwqAgSXQgaGFzIGJlZW4gaWdub3JpbmcgYW55IGVtYWlscyBhZGRl ZCBpbiB0aGUgbGFzdCBmZXcgeWVhcnMuwqAgCkknbSB3b3JraW5nIG9uIHRoYXQsIGhhdmUgaXQg bW9zdGx5IGZpeGVkLCBnZXR0aW5nIGFuY2llbnQgcGVybCBzY3JpcHRzIAphbmQgc3VjaCB0byB3 b3JrIHdpdGggY3VycmVudCB2ZXJzaW9ucyBvZiBzb2Z0d2FyZSBjYW4gYmUgdHJvdWJsZXNvbWUu IAogwqDCoCBCYWNrIGluIG15IHN5cyBhZG1pbiBkYXlzIHdoZW4gSSB3YXMgZG9pbmcgcGVybCBv biBhIGRhaWx5IGJhc2lzLCAKc3R1ZmYgbGlrZSB0aGlzOgoKJHVyaSA9fiBzLyUlL1wzNC9nOwok dXJpID1+IHMvJXs/KFthLXpdKyl9Py8kcGFyYW17JDF9L2c7CiR1cmkgPX4gcy9cMzQvJS9nOwoK d2FzIGVhc3kgdG8gcmVhZCwgbGlrZSBTZWUgU3BvdC7CoCBTZWUgU3BvdCBydW4uwqAgUnVuLCBT cG90LCBydW4hIApOb3dhZGF5cywgbm90IHNvIG11Y2guCgpBbnl3YXksIHdoZW4gdXNpbmcgaHR0 cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0L2FyY2hpdmUgdGhlIHNlYXJjaCBmdW5jdGlvbiAKc2hvdWxkIG5v dyByZXR1cm4gbW9yZSByZWNlbnQgcmVzdWx0cy4KCm1qYi4KCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCgpTaG9wLXRhbGtAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQKRG9u YXRlOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnRlYW0ubmV0L2RvbmF0ZS5odG1sClN1Z2dlc3RlZCBhbm51YWwgZG9u YXRpb24gICQxMi45NgpBcmNoaXZlOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnRlYW0ubmV0L3BpcGVybWFpbC9zaG9w LXRhbGsgaHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0L2FyY2hpdmUKClVuc3Vic2NyaWJlL01hbmFnZTog aHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0L21haWxtYW4vb3B0aW9ucy9zaG9wLXRhbGsvbWhhcmNAYXV0 b3gudGVhbS5uZXQKCg== From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Apr 28 05:32:05 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76187A105E for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 05:32:05 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sonic305-1.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com (unknown [74.6.133.40]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00A10A0FB3 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 05:22:27 -0600 (MDT) t=1588072947; bh=FMbR1/ltr/ZowPvO0cAaQIeRTnncfDzyDjIhw4uB6Ho=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=t2XO/rE8KUJP2cUJxNQtx3E2XhMOxSkqpnHkIzirmaXRl6U8t+JAyAK5fXJM1NIyMhDtREgbUcxJuBKWCV8Xzialiri3n/8gP/3GNQeM+oUKsICgzv79xXMP2D3xgEYrwxOpPufnnFuJ1exYXyOGaQbzZ+LK2/nemB4WeKuCE/tTzunuG3cVhWxWAb1HHQU9lSfWoP7SSIi8zgK4g+8bekr73GUqNVzek/4y7lhSWtksUqV0J4FOYVYivafVv1TBqIxaVxMNrOhjXToieuVPrM7QRd0cnHU5Oco8K0K5MSRMQEP64A/mneCTY4WQ8bIUPifFRM7JaHdqgDzJw1VGbA== 7Ir2VH.XWwCF1SPXy_ZkH4.mh_uMoJTITH0XKh4iZwof3zzWy.K0pMHk52lElcMnT19G8dvYk_.z UyvP8Fk6XGfYqaRGhrvdByF87WAuEwqVyJgC2SL4tIouPF4hMUfWakedWX4JH3VwciW9e6oDZS6t yef9EtdZZoDIDx0hDqLzXGt5EuZTMlogoDQPrFHYhndOkMy7BULS5tjSCFuxUT4ezKlYA492eNJt sv6bQUzSFJZe2IXnKcFjfc_v.gV3NeLrm5xLmXdC0K_nYtM.wbpEWynVAPJpY6uYId2Y0VHcV72U XzeF64.g.0I.aLJEoo2te9bT4HrpmKl34AnzJPItUBWEdUjZHTTkFvyhfF_.YMKCWWPk9yMQp2Y7 WIpiav_eNDgHMKzRkvZHS_04QpxkEdkk9fk5WBvIYvUlVAnHcpxfcKXWC5ifQr.HkufRsNEmXZID DLHi1fQG5ltNPBE.cMCcKyigP5VIeL9dZMw86QgoTi38mQ0u2zAWKOhrenighuGoKSXD55WaVYkF 18.tmjS4U7ZKWBRcpaaG0BskIh9A2sFTtKl5EGEPerwA_71UYPCS4YQjMPTtog5c0RvK6d3XwCtH MOUWbCEbx6wTJklzygQIH8w_kZOxYVburPcu_c78ieB1YN6xJDv.TBXU5OvyIJzc0Cx.oRbC2IEG hRfTnw_iyEV2hzeIM1ZdHNmCFlZkqabVD07NMYsa9CZEDIFXM7UOfetlWi8sMI.ksGMSUzf7MmrV kPVmCn1.gArjoLZBtQTpsiJ9lZ9QyUjtL1NNYXjxAI7uUeRSZ56r6molimVIICI0YpJcDeysfNQo HPFPiLRsIJLS4KSbivJYcYwpOv9Un0YlwiH6yuwlKHy3BO2ySzYD3o_OWOlSWNstrAk8.LDK3R6x 6cPat6DXwCD3YNru7OgHdDlzCbdKqO2BH_Uc4e0BHX6P1zC5fFgt0.C_gfyDEYu7Hhskl5Kenyik 0pJ84hm_iYz0Ona_zvxMfvyt7T9NugQlLxPu4xTyVK2vJ15i4svkiT527SGudC65KJW24PBsVX4G X50QTFZW2QJ8sYB9X0nKNCTC4w6Weq9QZ3jqoUW_W8xMVA4VoI2Thqe00Kvl56z_MklpHevRkMFZ BZz3VUimF7YJtM7wAq3fw3DbS0lP_3qXusEplvmBuq93XRGfGkI4G4UEMpqoJwN9e6M4fWD3miJC JmIUqGdE7JfvvXqg1djDs0tUOGaLmHTlQmWp3cbUhWlkAarSYy6ycQ6mwqzqkjQC3IHkxCJZQKlY iJvHTg5eN2NRcalvG751ZLYgA5kKrUBcfH2k- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic305.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 11:22:27 +0000 Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 11:22:24 +0000 (UTC) To: mark@bradakis.com, shop-talk@autox.team.net References: x64; rv:75.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/75.0 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Quick note on list archives From: DAVID MASSEY via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3567289154772758694== boundary="----=_Part_969455_1700227283.1588072944881" ------=_Part_969455_1700227283.1588072944881 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good luck with that.=C2=A0 That looks more like what one would find on the= wall in the pyramid. What's wrong with: while (car =3D=3D in_garage){=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 fix car;} =20 Dave=20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Mark J Bradakis via Shop-talk To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Sent: Mon, Apr 27, 2020 11:57 pm Subject: [Shop-talk] Quick note on list archives For a while now the search function in the mharc archives has been=20 broken.=C2=A0 It has been ignoring any emails added in the last few years.= =C2=A0=20 I'm working on that, have it mostly fixed, getting ancient perl scripts=20 and such to work with current versions of software can be troublesome.=20 =C2=A0=C2=A0 Back in my sys admin days when I was doing perl on a daily ba= sis,=20 stuff like this: $uri =3D~ s/%%/\34/g; $uri =3D~ s/%{?([a-z]+)}?/$param{$1}/g; $uri =3D~ s/\34/%/g; was easy to read, like See Spot.=C2=A0 See Spot run.=C2=A0 Run, Spot, run!= =20 Nowadays, not so much. Anyway, when using http://autox.team.net/archive the search function=20 should now return more recent results. mjb. _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch= ive ssey@cs.com ------=_Part_969455_1700227283.1588072944881 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Good luck with that.  That looks more like what one would find on the wall in the pyramid.

What's wrong with:

while (car == in_garage)
{
    fix car;
}

Dave



-----Original Message-----
From: Mark J Bradakis via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Sent: Mon, Apr 27, 2020 11:57 pm
Subject: [Shop-talk] Quick note on list archives

For a while now the search function in the mharc archives has been
broken.  It has been ignoring any emails added in the last few years. 
I'm working on that, have it mostly fixed, getting ancient perl scripts
and such to work with current versions of software can be troublesome.
   Back in my sys admin days when I was doing perl on a daily basis,
stuff like this:

$uri =~ s/%%/\34/g;
$uri =~ s/%{?([a-z]+)}?/$param{$1}/g;
$uri =~ s/\34/%/g;

was easy to read, like See Spot.  See Spot run.  Run, Spot, run!
Nowadays, not so much.

Anyway, when using http://autox.team.net/archive the search function
should now return more recent results.

mjb.

_______________________________________________

Suggested annual donation  $12.96


------=_Part_969455_1700227283.1588072944881-- --===============3567289154772758694== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3567289154772758694==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 29 15:02:44 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D6D6A18C3 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:02:44 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-lj1-f170.google.com (unknown [209.85.208.170]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00F58A16FF for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:02:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-lj1-f170.google.com with SMTP id l19so4136679lje.10 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:02:34 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=uRsoWknZIvpYwcySu7B+AyPH44Nqe6gfxsI7eD8aza8=; b=oJ41Y7knsFK2KxSdRcIIuN3c8uu7okbo81Nvtt49FHusnNgpXDfr8CQhcGLxHCwEX5 HEY6/NOxvpu6goUDia/BsCtyJLwR7lczFRiEf1rbQVNfKDFru74xYt6IELo+1PLAzdgX BagAV2ZHaousuuosv46tYUKcT8lyXgmGIsk7ZrjlUOkYTkwgWw9r0fNaIdJdxzB44Taz QU1DiXviDvVFdkt3pqHWqK1HZStD4qQJ52Uv9NKRgnwFKF12jOMtRGz66bOC/LjG+yoi 1lp/RVvInIGSJgLx9c5HIksz0H1DJnXzJa+6C1HlvmRtKEIuab7TK2QfMr+akE88AKFv 1Ktw== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=uRsoWknZIvpYwcySu7B+AyPH44Nqe6gfxsI7eD8aza8=; b=b2ATGk8qvrQA5oITEKPhZFa92zJRnSh13B0bPcC9R//YSP+srhGQ0KCn6LLIQJQ+vE PRy4Gyifh25w+B4eWkHDpnYGltQMDi8cHf879olhT5sVTcryiTBnKgHVcFjc01Mf5Ur6 8j4f62mwzIoC9q/eB4BqLnu8ORT3+8xJaCyIcKagQWiQcFVGVWLBpd7EIJ96Nce5Mz9u Z0Tgvz/vVr0CF78hD/ylIPg0vcJroDkb0zJn5nQqDWPP7176TIG82x0M//fRtCFNplJg vwGgOO1go7Ee5XnwLcX5fhy2nFsszpLpXoxzhukkj9VS4JrYHIx/+tZeMa/La5LY9hWM BAJA== nci0tOdZ+i/NXJH1G4sGLpllU0wS9tqOQD89le3pRz4r Wed, 29 Apr 2020 14:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:02:17 -0400 To: Shop-Talk List Subject: [Shop-talk] Rainwater storage/runoff mitigation - shop video From: Peter Murray via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============9067037475493157393== --00000000000058d36c05a47444f8 This struck me as a cool way to document projects, as well as share ideas and methodology. How many of you produce videos from projects you do in YOUR shop? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDMbhmna2iI I do have video from various projects - I suppose I should fire up iMovie and make them watchable. But really - I'm mostly jealous of that really nice shop he has, though it is clearly too small (though much larger than what I have now). -Peter --00000000000058d36c05a47444f8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This struck me as a cool way to document projects, as well= as share ideas and methodology. How many of you produce videos from projec= ts you do in YOUR shop?


I do have video from various projects - I sup= pose I should fire up iMovie and make them watchable.

But really - I'm mostly jealous of that really nice shop he has= , though it is clearly too small (though much larger than what I have now).=

-Peter
--00000000000058d36c05a47444f8-- --===============9067037475493157393== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============9067037475493157393==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Apr 29 15:54:15 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3652A1749 for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:54:15 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from relay10.mail.gandi.net (unknown [217.70.178.230]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DFB0A167E for ; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:54:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.135] (c-73-253-103-15.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [73.253.103.15]) (Authenticated sender: jamesf@groupwbench.org) by relay10.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7B2CE240003; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 21:54:08 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:54:05 -0400 References: To: Peter Murray Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Rainwater storage/runoff mitigation - shop video From: Jim Franklin via Shop-talk Cc: Shop-Talk List Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net > On Apr 29, 2020, at 5:02 PM, Peter Murray via Shop-talk wrote: > > This struck me as a cool way to document projects, as well as share ideas and methodology. I really enjoyed that. Thanks! jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 30 01:48:13 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1935A1037 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 01:48:13 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sender4-of-o51.zoho.com (unknown [136.143.188.51]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F4014A1007 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 01:46:52 -0600 (MDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1588232808; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=JZmFdX79QsT+xR+YEDpF+6BaBbmXLdHRE9ctdfrhc3bE3BjCRHH0X01OxWBbPmQJhDjTj9jNk6Ft6jqok4K6WokkjK/Ic6NnW9WI5U1ben/nmpsnUn3CV1e1sjep2NU2hJgmT4VFnY9FDBfoGomyOQ7tNcso2Y9yzSGUMCLIS8Y= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1588232808; h=Content-Type:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To; bh=AiZhoF8qOveXolce5PTpDSjW3RjYMWOmwuQ8KfD1c8M=; b=crbFIqrU80yfOlgIb/d/ARzpzn9L1WN1aIPm4q6uAsonW0Vx/Hnpxzh+4DgPyM0bYZ5GnachW6z3Nw0GL48BwTxNH3/5uIAFyzuzngsDh9qXQemjEcABEM+dQI8msClM4oUFkDjJVrIC4BnAAwCT3TCCWJl2EeR7LvIiGXNlCAA= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=nick@landform.co.uk; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= s=zoho; d=landform.co.uk; i=nick@landform.co.uk; h=Subject:To:References:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type; bh=AiZhoF8qOveXolce5PTpDSjW3RjYMWOmwuQ8KfD1c8M=; b=am+yreuaGRMam3WNYldTZ3JX1H5R/ktzu5Lzj26uyYF8DG5oCnMDFcLuFsxJ2oT7 1ierjcJ3uVw941EsuYd0bLRxUa/OSfZMrTEN2K8TF0jYUu0k9DVIV1shJietiob2Xd7 NyIqvI+8tWOnp5c9T3ZmI8QhGoLAS9hsOxQz2NfA= Received: from [192.168.1.64] (host86-158-73-250.range86-158.btcentralplus.com [86.158.73.250]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1588232806730183.6022077942671; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 00:46:46 -0700 (PDT) To: Peter Murray , Shop-Talk List References: Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 08:46:43 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Rainwater storage/runoff mitigation - shop video From: nick brearley via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============3886886067898123980== boundary="------------D49B1015AF598EA6467141EF" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D49B1015AF598EA6467141EF Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, That is 19 minutes well spent. What makes it particularly relevant for me is that I've got a tank of similar dimensions that has been kicking round the field since the 90's and I've just started clearing ground to install it to catch rainwater from a tractor shed. Not that we particularly need water in the UK, but it's been in the way for so long that it had better start earning its keep. So many nice points in there, the use of the ladder as a lever was brilliant. The only difference I'll make is to put it on a concrete slab rather than plywood. The thought of trying to replace the plywood when the tank is full is not appealing... 2.7m views. Quite a tribute to the quality of the presentation. Nick Brearley On 29/04/2020 22:02, Peter Murray via Shop-talk wrote: > This struck me as a cool way to document projects, as well as share > ideas and methodology. How many of you produce videos from projects > you do in YOUR shop? > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDMbhmna2iI > > I do have video from various projects - I suppose I should fire up > iMovie and make them watchable. > > But really - I'm mostly jealous of that really nice shop he has, > though it is clearly too small (though much larger than what I have now). > > -Peter > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/nick@landform.co.uk > --------------D49B1015AF598EA6467141EF Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Thanks,

That is 19 minutes well spent. What makes it particularly relevant for me is that I've got a tank of similar dimensions that has been kicking round the field since the 90's and I've just started clearing ground to install it to catch rainwater from a tractor shed. Not that we particularly need water in the UK, but it's been in the way for so long that it had better start earning its keep.

So many nice points in there, the use of the ladder as a lever was brilliant. The only difference I'll make is to put it on a concrete slab rather than plywood. The thought of trying to replace the plywood when the tank is full is not appealing...

2.7m views. Quite a tribute to the quality of the presentation.

Nick Brearley


On 29/04/2020 22:02, Peter Murray via Shop-talk wrote:
This struck me as a cool way to document projects, as well as share ideas and methodology. How many of you produce videos from projects you do in YOUR shop?


I do have video from various projects - I suppose I should fire up iMovie and make them watchable.

But really - I'm mostly jealous of that really nice shop he has, though it is clearly too small (though much larger than what I have now).

-Peter

_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
--------------D49B1015AF598EA6467141EF-- --===============3886886067898123980== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3886886067898123980==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 30 05:50:15 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B93F1A13C2 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 05:50:15 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ot1-f45.google.com (unknown [209.85.210.45]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF6E3A136D for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 05:50:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-ot1-f45.google.com with SMTP id 72so4650314otu.1 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 04:50:07 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=URFg3WEgY49Sk2woFajl12TJbMdhxaVRT7O1LfHQ7IY=; b=YSy0jYaN6v6fOQ7L+0L5l2xtUBhwkij54+nTskNMfCcIdlrbah1yKxYsuwOhE4zEDU lzugl/tw/yEGU/RUIiPJipIRXCBwK6inNzQ6dCK3Hlk5jx/mEMAYGiD/ozOx5r48uFDM y02802znPRozCeZ1AHWt63iqaZUtyIdkr7UR21zmR9RKV/vECIMbTSKVV8Met5KYUmVj Ui9kbGM70xU2FrUjEO5j29gVzGRUtxVKuKNEeA87y2iAJGzK/WADRu+ootdmiI3BsPQD ArFBXNq2dNmmDCtNCWChH0I6SpjQXDB6utEq2LCNqwLOlHjyyffcszfV5vtwbBDK6yfH r5ew== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=URFg3WEgY49Sk2woFajl12TJbMdhxaVRT7O1LfHQ7IY=; b=UjyScF95SOUe8y/WwKzShBXd07SG1EpSaPF73zT/nPRJiOP7UBQHh1CoC+aRw4sX1r DST6zJ41Ag7FdZxIAYszYvH1LEFDnuLcRk/xqO/NFZ+uXW49fNSSFN7wO2fAXJ7ov2Eh CP2ES2HtlRq7i3EuJ5lR7aJXs6ls5tinPRnGyHg99tC1GiW0ubODoxAyGjkOzzUkCfPd mFtkgXJeTVhUEzNe1QvuA3YQcyOTJk2gYyh7KkwuLHA1RWOAnC6IyZOJGo2s/7omZC3d iMigolDAJgj4NCKn3r6uSZHkI8UAoL/EjV2ngN8rwfVOi1yNq2m0VyoTZhqRoctlk9/+ NvyQ== bieudVIBSPXNiSSeM1F8x/Wi1EdO/DBJR+o6RCIqicQq Thu, 30 Apr 2020 04:50:06 -0700 (PDT) References: <27e478d8-1b70-f950-ef5e-86acf34845ce@landform.co.uk> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 07:49:56 -0400 To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Rainwater storage/runoff mitigation - shop video From: Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============2843581301805394650== --0000000000008253f905a480aa52 On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 3:48 AM nick brearley via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > That is 19 minutes well spent. > Pfft. 19 minutes is only the beginning. If Lawn Chair 2 isn't the equal of any Hollywood blockbuster, I'll eat this computer. --0000000000008253f905a480aa52 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 3:48 AM nick = brearley via Shop-talk <shop= -talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20

That is 19 minutes well spent.


Pfft.=C2=A0 19 minutes is only the beginning.=C2=A0 If Lawn Chair 2 i= sn't the equal of any Hollywood blockbuster, I'll eat this computer= .=C2=A0
--0000000000008253f905a480aa52-- --===============2843581301805394650== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============2843581301805394650==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 30 07:55:24 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37C3BA18AB for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 07:55:24 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ot1-f47.google.com (unknown [209.85.210.47]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 074ABA1816 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 07:55:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-ot1-f47.google.com with SMTP id m13so4947606otf.6 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 06:55:18 -0700 (PDT) d=maracing-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=HOBovA0yV2waZsht8WiKaAHXJzGyuBr6zEONNgKTbyE=; b=c6Gnrodg4Oh6DVXtWfPSk7Xysoc567ODoMWuIbt8z8YCUc3Ip4fEzA4fVZuLiL0fnZ vV8Oyly9ENYPcsad+dTmqAzTVMQmdGdICWENDcLLnBgsR0v/Qa5HxsuGCyQnGs5whTfL Q+Nktr0XL82cnRU3qjiFgF980iD1LXFHTzkfWjAEQjfDth8cDh+FXHKSdQdCCedxks1D tesreMCm21l0IrGVumLtQt/naYhA9e12xPuHrKKlMYtZC80v9Jiu2mZNeUvbsPTDoRoy OBSqEFVf3mTno+qhzSxUigmb1prANWcBRgK09uo1meG43cRHKAGeCEnhvldvU0qptkQa matA== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=HOBovA0yV2waZsht8WiKaAHXJzGyuBr6zEONNgKTbyE=; b=ESJ0e3UwW/2WKcTfRE6vGEDQf4IDPY31SsjHP5pmO2AYWUalOqSOXna2oJKWTKBSzD tT1ow2l1+C39D3NBUUeNNzqEXKYmR3kft3XVJ0twUAMCy5uEEFdBQ7RtJaI7q7Uy6pKw C28x5Iwxl3Bq1VikpgJSTX+3SwhBLnI9j282APALaJr62D3OLyZZs333iCrchGjDxK8+ YBGklMZJijNc9EBDzdDItYsUshqsdtWPuVtsVJ08OO5u9kARXQFxd45kjB6ZGPAZCCel QU4ZS1OmcqNosF1NQUDJURZBCt41WTLL5nVTeC3R1JUYuVL5jRPSUUlmdbo8ZbdgU12O LpqA== zD48jGz6Fe8z6IbuNhjJWRujyULPbxPYIJrj5WzTPdEv Thu, 30 Apr 2020 06:55:18 -0700 (PDT) References: <27e478d8-1b70-f950-ef5e-86acf34845ce@landform.co.uk> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 09:55:12 -0400 To: ShopTalk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Rainwater storage/runoff mitigation - shop video From: Mark Andy via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============7288120914580205357== --00000000000034a8c105a4826ace Howdy, Man, that guy does NOT lack for cool tools... :) Mark On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 7:50 AM Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 3:48 AM nick brearley via Shop-talk < > shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > >> That is 19 minutes well spent. >> > > Pfft. 19 minutes is only the beginning. If Lawn Chair 2 isn't the equal > of any Hollywood blockbuster, I'll eat this computer. > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk > http://autox.team.net/archive > > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka@maracing.com > > --00000000000034a8c105a4826ace Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Howdy,

Man, that guy does NOT lack for = cool tools... :)

Mark

On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 7:50 AM Jeff Scar= brough via Shop-talk <shop-t= alk@autox.team.net> wrote:


On Thu, Apr 30, 202= 0 at 3:48 AM nick brearley via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:
=
=20 =20 =20

That is 19 minutes well spent.


Pfft.=C2=A0 19 minutes is only the beginning.=C2=A0 If Lawn Chair 2 i= sn't the equal of any Hollywood blockbuster, I'll eat this computer= .=C2=A0
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@aut= ox.team.net
et=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk htt= p://autox.team.net/archive

alk/marka@maracing.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.t= eam.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/marka@maracing.com

--00000000000034a8c105a4826ace-- --===============7288120914580205357== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============7288120914580205357==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 30 10:04:15 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 109D6A123A for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 10:04:15 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sender4-of-o51.zoho.com (unknown [136.143.188.51]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 282C9A121A for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 10:04:08 -0600 (MDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1588262647; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=WzJXV98SX/O/zL9FkVEsZxpPfmN6CD/5JSclKfgxZ+3wYuBd4/iMsdtvvHH3S66HmgEWkv/Zs9Ojp94jLd9KGBaKWrVXguQmx5uxAeA2Rqp8Xn7GY7DrPwihTIu5qNKL7Q+lNwSgCwgmIyxC+trzWcsCBIcNwo3OCQsMLkpBugM= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1588262647; h=Content-Type:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To; bh=tv+s/iIM97eM9Ygkr+8ffVqWWHCG8eU6tdsRBrPdauY=; b=cDatsiyyRUAXQyV9zBImjxJsbOOFO1EwOnLFMsn0OSTwG6AmybvMCo+858XRittzhsSFo/uqr/M2tTsoM17JdG5xuY8ttNSeIL8NK25Kz7UXSi+1Nn0EDys2GanIuLbSPg4SK9uUkw3A8stNLHN4IqI+SglCWmcbSNc3yXPO2QI= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=nick@landform.co.uk; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= s=zoho; d=landform.co.uk; i=nick@landform.co.uk; h=From:Subject:To:Message-ID:References:Date:MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type; bh=tv+s/iIM97eM9Ygkr+8ffVqWWHCG8eU6tdsRBrPdauY=; b=UjvIXwdVqHHg5CPe9R9oHZAlduMDEt50+ysNi3eR2biawES5GjNBSb3q1mGsK23A BubUwye0UPp4xsrY4zlsxMsYKFM1u1qzARZfmq7y7YJJT2yMALJvi2GGHk2THINl3Mq jTNJYbFhMdbPNpcJ9viGGNi79LmqQ/+JerOl4jvw= Received: from [192.168.1.64] (host86-158-73-250.range86-158.btcentralplus.com [86.158.73.250]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1588262642142217.94222686146554; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 09:04:02 -0700 (PDT) To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" References: <27e478d8-1b70-f950-ef5e-86acf34845ce@landform.co.uk> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 17:03:58 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Rainwater storage/runoff mitigation - shop video From: nick brearley via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1217324417319105933== boundary="------------E04ABEE5CBF6AE5EF127EC56" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E04ABEE5CBF6AE5EF127EC56 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hmm, now was that the kindest suggestion to make? Here I was, all=20 prepared for an afternoon winching down trees, and then Lawn Chair 2=20 comes into view. And then I see there's The making of Lawn Chair 2... Thanks all the same. On 30/04/2020 12:49, Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk wrote: > > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 3:48 AM nick brearley via Shop-talk=20 > > That is 19 minutes well spent. > > > Pfft.=C2=A0 19 minutes is only the beginning.=C2=A0 If Lawn Chair 2 isn't= the=20 > equal of any Hollywood blockbuster, I'll eat this computer. > > _______________________________________________ > > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/ar= chive > > Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/nick@l= andform.co.uk > --------------E04ABEE5CBF6AE5EF127EC56 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hmm, now was that the kindest suggestion to make? Here I was, all prepared for an afternoon winching down trees, and then Lawn Chair 2 comes into view. And then I see there's The making of Lawn Chair 2...

Thanks all the same.


On 30/04/2020 12:49, Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk wrote:


On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 3:4= 8 AM nick brearley via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:

That is 19 minutes well spent.


Pfft.=C2=A0 19 minutes is only the beginning.=C2=A0 If Lawn = Chair 2 isn't the equal of any Hollywood blockbuster, I'll eat this computer.=C2=A0

______________________________=
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Shop-talk@autox.team.net
te.html" moz-do-not-send=3D"true">http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/sh=
op-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/nick@landform.co.uk" moz-do-not-send=3D=
"true">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/nick@landform.co.uk<=
/a>
--------------E04ABEE5CBF6AE5EF127EC56-- --===============1217324417319105933== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============1217324417319105933==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 30 14:36:45 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AE90A0291 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 14:36:45 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qk1-f176.google.com (unknown [209.85.222.176]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 959BFA219A for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 14:28:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-qk1-f176.google.com with SMTP id l78so7218373qke.7 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 13:28:49 -0700 (PDT) h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:message-id:date :to; bh=eU0IooMZ3lfNtioZA3NZ+lMeQtbLRK1V9wACNSzpTmY=; b=DTFYHmaFtYkvAYjrKvIyFqLDbDmS4m6WRTVZ3UVqObp7iev5PbGOm1hbBNZHkVeTD+ FvWEUJRQbwqqHHadYwwDlcpy8dcpVFIjKjsn41ZNQES1Bo7kZfe8q3y/m3iIWD3/sOUm 755Fa7UmCl5hW4s+LuVKZPoujjDJtcb8mT61P4030TiSP66h1x95y40cpUJe6vLCdIQp bzLQ+8/Ad21QH2EbzA6ST7WMa/2YGE5BF68Ra1EKF3WlbJliA+i3wtB6lvqZPscj2y2q qo/UZUIn+Pi1dS3IxetrBWw6UEhauUdg1d/d9Z/Pt/0yMSKW50iuREN2Xx03V93oZWvS DXVQ== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:message-id:date:to; bh=eU0IooMZ3lfNtioZA3NZ+lMeQtbLRK1V9wACNSzpTmY=; b=st2TXBpwcKzok2Dssc3kfv/K2dxy78A5xOmxvAse5LlvxqOza8rLSIlzZuBX9Avezc Zl0EA95IInPKMCiiO1kKPW5CmAXZg3HQ9mtdjRLbhSzJP/ZF9kmi0Qd+hOotHx5XnCOx Pj+wY9y3otf1Fzlv5rvS9vZnf+iZ+MUiYw78k09K7pBbsq4Ym5elBZreYrFzSjoVYx0Z mItbKIWQwTHjAS59Kzyg35RdBEvKXKGvWNE2mZj4HqmK3NrBdAaeKjL18oTup8uyetwj SNnIrEEPB7Hi3KOSRu11xINHRq7RNnQC3nU/cKd+MPHbAnEfwTJAbbTuSqxRt+RAvZRz DUNA== oo2ce4XGUqriLLj0+LUOcWwofXz0 Thu, 30 Apr 2020 13:28:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from macbook-pro-2.home (ool-18bed2ba.dyn.optonline.net. [24.190.210.186]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j90sm693752qte.20.2020.04.30.13.28.46 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 30 Apr 2020 13:28:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 16:28:43 -0400 To: Shop Talk Subject: [Shop-talk] Fog and Driving Lights From: Jim Stone via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net SSBoYXZlIGxvbmcgd2FudGVkIHRvIGluc3RhbGwgMSBmb2cgYW5kIDEgZHJpdmluZyBsaWdodCBv biBteSBBbHBpbmUsIGFuZCBoYXZlIHRoZW0gd2lyZWQgc28gdGhhdCBJIGNhbiBsaWdodCBlaXRo ZXIgb25lIG9yIGJvdGggb2YgdGhlbS4gIFRoZXJlIHdhcyBhIHBlcmlvZCA0LXBvc2l0aW9uIHJv dGFyeSBzd2l0Y2ggZm9yIGRvaW5nIHRoaXMgKG9mZiAtIG9uMSAtIG9uMiAtIG9uMSYyKSBhbmQg SSBoYXZlIG9uZSwgYnV0IGl0IGlzIHVnbHkgYXMgc2luIGFuZCBJ4oCZZCBsaWtlIHRvIGNvbWUg dXAgd2l0aCBhIG1vcmUgYXR0cmFjdGl2ZSBzb2x1dGlvbi4gIElkZWFsbHksIEkgd291bGQgbGlr ZSB0byBjb252ZXJ0IGFuIHVubmVjZXNzYXJ5IHRvZ2dsZSBzd2l0Y2ggc3BhY2Ugb24gdGhlIGRh c2ggdG8gYSBmb2cvZHJpdmluZyBsaWdodCBzd2l0Y2guICBNeSBob3BlIGlzIHRvIHB1dCBpbiBh IERQRFQgbW9tZW50YXJ5IHN3aXRjaCAoc29tZXRoaW5nIGxpa2UgdGhpcyBvbmUsIGJ1dCBob3Bl ZnVsbHkgSSBjYW4gZmluZCBzb21ldGhpbmcgbW9yZSBhdHRyYWN0aXZlOiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5h bWF6b24uY29tL0hlYXZ5LUhhbmRsZS1Nb21lbnRhcnktVG9nZ2xlLVN3aXRjaC9kcC9CMDAwTEZW RkE4KSBhbmQgYSBwYWlyIG9mIGxhdGNoaW5nIHJlbGF5cy4gIFRoZSB0cmlja3kgcGFydCBpcyB0 aGF0IEnigJlkIG5lZWQgdGhlIHJlbGF5cyB0byBsYXRjaCBvbiB3aXRoIHRoZSBmaXJzdCBwdWxz ZSBhbmQgdHVybiBvZmYgd2l0aCB0aGUgc2Vjb25kLiAgU28sIHVwIG9uY2UgdG8gdHVybiBvbiB0 aGUgZm9nIGxpZ2h0LCBkb3duIG9uY2UgdG8gdHVybiBvbiB0aGUgZHJpdmluZyBsaWdodC4gIFVw IG9yIGRvd24gYSBzZWNvbmQgdGltZSB0byB0dXJuIG9mZiBlaXRoZXIgbGlnaHQuICBIb3BlZnVs bHksIHRoYXQgbWFrZXMgc2Vuc2UuCgpEb2VzIGFueW9uZSBrbm93IGlmIHN1Y2ggYSByZWxheSBl eGlzdHM/ICBJZiBub3QsIGlzIHRoZXJlIGEgc2ltcGxlIGNpcmN1aXQgdGhhdCB3b3VsZCBtYWtl IGEgc3RhbmRhcmQgcmVsYXkgd29yayBhcyBkZXNjcmliZWQ/CgpUaGFua3MsCkppbQpfX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwoKU2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94 LnRlYW0ubmV0CkRvbmF0ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9kb25hdGUuaHRtbApTdWdnZXN0 ZWQgYW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAkMTIuOTYKQXJjaGl2ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9w aXBlcm1haWwvc2hvcC10YWxrIGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9hcmNoaXZlCgpVbnN1YnNj cmliZS9NYW5hZ2U6IGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9tYWlsbWFuL29wdGlvbnMvc2hvcC10 YWxrL21oYXJjQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Cgo= From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 30 15:04:27 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84696A01FF for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 15:04:27 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from pv50p00im-tydg10021701.me.com (unknown [17.58.6.54]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 191AEA01B5 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 15:01:44 -0600 (MDT) t=1588280502; bh=OBl4tIcU8bgUXDLu/eaWVq75mt9KShSm30PEPl1Pp9I=; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Subject:Date:To; b=OGhiRidQxW5KRbLQOdIvhWPQ9mZ3ES3dclyl8rkv9/QlDJMpPiGhyj1sxz06KHFcV XGb4HvNqEJXhLSUcdzAjLpWjoMszTjD5SaRZSWiT3GFzKTXGx+tZf4K1xYx6tXVhlq 5BnArVwDMmWwuQN9Vs0iKGdiYCnV9VAUxKdh8jssD/u62abrqjROoHPGqLNzsp3XLj J0n+1/XkbINPimhnlU/NL6tcAwZORR3JGGx0acq6vFgosf97Pdr4D7d7PZUB06zGvb xJ5BNNRRTxe71Wibq7lDHJBdLKrZy64Y5xIuVOzcGS+npIdTxnFeNPtnfF3dLV3NT0 1mJJQYTrT64SQ== Received: from [192.168.0.67] (unknown [97.115.144.214]) by pv50p00im-tydg10021701.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 524E484040A; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 21:01:42 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 14:01:41 -0700 To: Jim Stone <1789alpine@gmail.com> References: <0DB802A9-83F6-4F66-835F-C256F88F5637@gmail.com> definitions=2020-04-30_12:2020-04-30, 2020-04-30 signatures=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-2002250000 definitions=main-2004300156 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fog and Driving Lights From: Darrell Walker via Shop-talk Cc: Shop Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3453383091863071206== boundary="Apple-Mail=_B121BA70-6E33-46BD-B464-626F37C0D18F" --Apple-Mail=_B121BA70-6E33-46BD-B464-626F37C0D18F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 This looks like it might be what you want: = https://www.ebay.com/i/282960969172?chn=3Dps&norover=3D1&mkevt=3D1&mkrid=3D= 711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=3D2&itemid=3D282960969172&targetid=3D883510870202= &device=3Dc&mktype=3Dpla&googleloc=3D9061081&poi=3D&campaignid=3D925023760= 9&mkgroupid=3D93913847756&rlsatarget=3Dpla-883510870202&abcId=3D1145977&me= rchantid=3D101712989&gclid=3DEAIaIQobChMIuMrQz4WR6QIVjh6tBh0C2gLvEAQYAyABE= gIP1_D_BwE = -Darrell > On Apr 30, 2020, at 1:28 PM, Jim Stone via Shop-talk = wrote: >=20 > I have long wanted to install 1 fog and 1 driving light on my Alpine, = and have them wired so that I can light either one or both of them. = There was a period 4-position rotary switch for doing this (off - on1 - = on2 - on1&2) and I have one, but it is ugly as sin and I=E2=80=99d like = to come up with a more attractive solution. Ideally, I would like to = convert an unnecessary toggle switch space on the dash to a fog/driving = light switch. My hope is to put in a DPDT momentary switch (something = like this one, but hopefully I can find something more attractive: = https://www.amazon.com/Heavy-Handle-Momentary-Toggle-Switch/dp/B000LFVFA8)= and a pair of latching relays. The tricky part is that I=E2=80=99d = need the relays to latch on with the first pulse and turn off with the = second. So, up once to turn on the fog light, down once to turn on the = driving light. Up or down a second time to turn off either light. = Hopefully, that makes sense. >=20 > Does anyone know if such a relay exists? If not, is there a simple = circuit that would make a standard relay work as described? >=20 > Thanks, > Jim > _______________________________________________ >=20 > Shop-talk@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $12.96 > Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive >=20 > Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/darrellw360@mac.com >=20 --Apple-Mail=_B121BA70-6E33-46BD-B464-626F37C0D18F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8

This looks like it might be what you = want:

https://www.ebay.com/i/282960969172?chn=3Dps&norover=3D1&am= p;mkevt=3D1&mkrid=3D711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=3D2&itemid=3D2829= 60969172&targetid=3D883510870202&device=3Dc&mktype=3Dpla&g= oogleloc=3D9061081&poi=3D&campaignid=3D9250237609&mkgroupid=3D= 93913847756&rlsatarget=3Dpla-883510870202&abcId=3D1145977&merc= hantid=3D101712989&gclid=3DEAIaIQobChMIuMrQz4WR6QIVjh6tBh0C2gLvEAQYAyA= BEgIP1_D_BwE

-Darrell

On Apr 30, 2020, at 1:28 PM, = Jim Stone via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:

I = have long wanted to install 1 fog and 1 driving light on my Alpine, and = have them wired so that I can light either one or both of them. =  There was a period 4-position rotary switch for doing this (off - = on1 - on2 - on1&2) and I have one, but it is ugly as sin and I=E2=80=99= d like to come up with a more attractive solution.  Ideally, I = would like to convert an unnecessary toggle switch space on the dash to = a fog/driving light switch.  My hope is to put in a DPDT momentary = switch (something like this one, but hopefully I can find something more = attractive: https://www.amazon.com/Heavy-Handle-Momentary-Toggle-Switch/dp/= B000LFVFA8) and a pair of latching relays.  The tricky part is = that I=E2=80=99d need the relays to latch on with the first pulse and = turn off with the second.  So, up once to turn on the fog light, = down once to turn on the driving light.  Up or down a second time = to turn off either light.  Hopefully, that makes sense.

Does anyone know if such a relay exists? =  If not, is there a simple circuit that would make a standard relay = work as described?

Thanks,
Jim
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: =  $12.96
Archive: = http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive

Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/darrellw360@mac.com


= --Apple-Mail=_B121BA70-6E33-46BD-B464-626F37C0D18F-- --===============3453383091863071206== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3453383091863071206==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 30 15:29:34 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA811A116D for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 15:29:34 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qk1-f170.google.com (unknown [209.85.222.170]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8CD1A0803 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 15:19:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-qk1-f170.google.com with SMTP id s9so4676120qkm.6 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 14:19:56 -0700 (PDT) h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=Zj2l8tXcbqIq0pz1Fv1z/FqHNzHZbw8pCcF0ny4Pkzc=; b=iBxZqD14aLBy4B/SSoeZuL1O2hOxpMfyqlnNhqKEI2+oGX2KYHtPqR6RAEXJzB0GpU b/nmYxNDVPnH8R0OPVy4SYArvoVaO3V9nE2AfEhhM9FYm8FDHOhdpaXqI9emEasTA6SY 91o2T9cdSy+0LkPrCQDzak8aUWaCl293ai2aMxMOMepLvSV8/xkkwk0T4KnXDc7D2zQe yL3y7091r4gTnxn62luZWL66B5mZbr0Ox79g9dHcYIaHZXdHJWKReiuVTtmKHpxVUwBq NLjk84T3/EAiLL1mDFme/memTzkcP1Z2jzcCIAduFTrp+SGz6V2Y5wlYW8l7ckJ9MSYn mCoA== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=Zj2l8tXcbqIq0pz1Fv1z/FqHNzHZbw8pCcF0ny4Pkzc=; b=tjLgMOCSgGEZykxs5KW+CiNn3CXav9BCPSBikukzx8NvYK+M06A3QhNPBnTaDbqoXO IVSvLWpCQELJBk2cmMnkoNsN6YGPhz6NheBqU21+d2micBTwDxehV/AJwS1xdyVwqDNP rFHV1Ac5nitiU5l55YvNErC0NSfbJRV+ixAzEsot/h1DtYQL/nAISRdsO7/nigzlf/Ut ILVSmXTToAhBPaszFPesFMjBU/mSU8otsuCyLwoQ8l5Jyk8tTMxrGk9zwmzbhEf7WeKJ PQxmOxgak+uv7NE7AqDDSXH3iiqkwFNOk6HdohZ3p88RkXUCI8mH1GWC706z9VtB710V QeEw== gB/MXvEWuhSEDfHJFcGDe6A= Thu, 30 Apr 2020 14:19:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from macbook-pro-2.home (ool-18bed2ba.dyn.optonline.net. [24.190.210.186]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m33sm844298qte.17.2020.04.30.14.19.54 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 30 Apr 2020 14:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 17:19:48 -0400 To: Darrell Walker References: <0DB802A9-83F6-4F66-835F-C256F88F5637@gmail.com> <9912A8ED-D9EA-4F9F-899D-0A5AEFA6E5A0@mac.com> Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fog and Driving Lights From: Jim Stone via Shop-talk Cc: Shop Talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8665441055087452183== boundary="Apple-Mail=_3F236305-64AA-4C74-A9AE-193D6026E7B1" --Apple-Mail=_3F236305-64AA-4C74-A9AE-193D6026E7B1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 It sure does! I figured such a thing had to exist somewhere, but never = knew what to call it. Now I know I need a "Flip-Flop Bistable = Self-locking Trigger Switch Board=E2=80=9D. Thanks! But, I don=E2=80=99t know; $2.75 delivered from China seems like an = awful lot of money! :) > On Apr 30, 2020, at 5:01 PM, Darrell Walker = wrote: >=20 >=20 > This looks like it might be what you want: >=20 > = https://www.ebay.com/i/282960969172?chn=3Dps&norover=3D1&mkevt=3D1&mkrid=3D= 711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=3D2&itemid=3D282960969172&targetid=3D883510870202= &device=3Dc&mktype=3Dpla&googleloc=3D9061081&poi=3D&campaignid=3D925023760= 9&mkgroupid=3D93913847756&rlsatarget=3Dpla-883510870202&abcId=3D1145977&me= rchantid=3D101712989&gclid=3DEAIaIQobChMIuMrQz4WR6QIVjh6tBh0C2gLvEAQYAyABE= gIP1_D_BwE = >=20 > -Darrell >=20 >> On Apr 30, 2020, at 1:28 PM, Jim Stone via Shop-talk = >>=20 >> I have long wanted to install 1 fog and 1 driving light on my Alpine, = and have them wired so that I can light either one or both of them. = There was a period 4-position rotary switch for doing this (off - on1 - = on2 - on1&2) and I have one, but it is ugly as sin and I=E2=80=99d like = to come up with a more attractive solution. Ideally, I would like to = convert an unnecessary toggle switch space on the dash to a fog/driving = light switch. My hope is to put in a DPDT momentary switch (something = like this one, but hopefully I can find something more attractive: = https://www.amazon.com/Heavy-Handle-Momentary-Toggle-Switch/dp/B000LFVFA8 = ) and a pair of latching relays. The tricky part is that I=E2=80=99d = need the relays to latch on with the first pulse and turn off with the = second. So, up once to turn on the fog light, down once to turn on the = driving light. Up or down a second time to turn off either light. = Hopefully, that makes sense. >>=20 >> Does anyone know if such a relay exists? If not, is there a simple = circuit that would make a standard relay work as described? >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Jim >> _______________________________________________ >>=20 >> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html >> Suggested annual donation $12.96 >> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk = http://autox.team.net/archive >>=20 >> Unsubscribe/Manage: = http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/darrellw360@mac.com >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_3F236305-64AA-4C74-A9AE-193D6026E7B1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable charset=utf-8 It = sure does!  I figured such a thing had to exist somewhere, but = never knew what to call it.  Now I know I need a "Flip-Flop = Bistable Self-locking Trigger Switch Board=E2=80=9D.  Thanks!

But, I don=E2=80=99t = know; $2.75 delivered from China seems like an awful lot of money! =  :)

On Apr 30, 2020, at 5:01 PM, Darrell Walker = <darrellw360@mac.com> wrote:


This looks like it might be what you want:

https://www.ebay.com/i/282960969172?chn=3Dps&norover=3D1&am= p;mkevt=3D1&mkrid=3D711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=3D2&itemid=3D2829= 60969172&targetid=3D883510870202&device=3Dc&mktype=3Dpla&g= oogleloc=3D9061081&poi=3D&campaignid=3D9250237609&mkgroupid=3D= 93913847756&rlsatarget=3Dpla-883510870202&abcId=3D1145977&merc= hantid=3D101712989&gclid=3DEAIaIQobChMIuMrQz4WR6QIVjh6tBh0C2gLvEAQYAyA= BEgIP1_D_BwE

-Darrell

On Apr = 30, 2020, at 1:28 PM, Jim Stone via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:

I = have long wanted to install 1 fog and 1 driving light on my Alpine, and = have them wired so that I can light either one or both of them. =  There was a period 4-position rotary switch for doing this (off - = on1 - on2 - on1&2) and I have one, but it is ugly as sin and I=E2=80=99= d like to come up with a more attractive solution.  Ideally, I = would like to convert an unnecessary toggle switch space on the dash to = a fog/driving light switch.  My hope is to put in a DPDT momentary = switch (something like this one, but hopefully I can find something more = attractive: https://www.amazon.com/Heavy-Handle-Momentary-Toggle-Switch/dp/= B000LFVFA8) and a pair of latching relays.  The tricky part is = that I=E2=80=99d need the relays to latch on with the first pulse and = turn off with the second.  So, up once to turn on the fog light, = down once to turn on the driving light.  Up or down a second time = to turn off either light.  Hopefully, that makes sense.

Does anyone know if such a relay exists? =  If not, is there a simple circuit that would make a standard relay = work as described?

Thanks,
Jim
_______________________________________________

Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Suggested = annual donation  $12.96
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= --Apple-Mail=_3F236305-64AA-4C74-A9AE-193D6026E7B1-- --===============8665441055087452183== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8665441055087452183==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 30 15:39:17 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16EC2A1254 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 15:39:17 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sonic307-10.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (unknown [98.137.64.34]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79FEBA113F for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 15:39:03 -0600 (MDT) t=1588282742; bh=bbOgvXZT/mV5R1dLnq9V2z+LVsQLlr0WhWdv/+4Mye8=; h=From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=uBKYTgSOiJuVh1BcmH2ROSOZeK28UjG9MGTXvOhz+o24oBjSe2QTyq4Fi6RQslJM7XHIehvNZz+79L+j9tKBnwu6Wel7fk/Uta27AgFqKy7DgKLxS4t/Xk5HS2BIf+jVuvJI3I3ait6R/NoP/dWZMMjVR3N7nHAZPD4iBaap0ys= Kz187CxEanEBgwvjX91ogPYb6LGBUH0fBS3QsfH9Ct2rHg6W3AGTARngYR5L5IJ8s8G4uceD41dA 2NCo4xCcppi4ruj.EmaC2EIdLotOEg7zhu.mVa2fNsT__rI7BMVjYY4V9Znf7bmPY53VwXd6Vh1r FF3ZXKmzTO_JEUHA6tMLYOvTITCQKkLAotXG7nezUsreAiIMksmzys7rmn8s.kvm2RdTOwwMS9xT 13uuLB5H4N34lzpwl22bHuKKYn4LbVs.Ju23.BMG_ImnrHtXeM5wCKKw_EW1EvZs0_tT7tvj567V vdu.R3ECixxmb4PF_oDeyhcjcRY52_LshwsmaOEwTjZ0VEdwAlxkqGT.4xZr5fyMbhenzEObnpam rz.3lcJCqmRtgvIMiWtTlKnucpI1DK8jkRNeM7L_ciA4Eo2Qpc7BmQvh_wqbqmIVepeRtDx7IRbt LBIP33IuzPoqdH7IpZhzzFTC_WjYJ5hopnavf93zrPv3Tf0AKVncwJwxzU7MWvs7YxGNanMV.jqs vPe9Y72KkX9Hi2S8diu7s5owr8f9ZjM5Iy7UXygzXGT4YkNthLNkypjp7awUHMGB0b7b_XBXQsmO FdH1QlgSzeBDc5BqZr79hdwzIsmPcN9lqaiy759.Ut_17_tjl7JZrYN7YiTJ.qryYtUnJ2giajD5 .xCiKPcAIStEMBM3p53gdgqZ_LIlr_cguVpLx0mgd9y9ZgCAI7uEDXAHTAKRcplgQv3RC35hmn2I gkJQd3jc8QMRG5CkWRK33UiMl1wci1x7oAZ.NBw5KfxRySUGjgOMDbukT92XEqVahYeaLO1HmWSL .FbMBpQCM7lAxKZM3OiBIAluEkjXGzyHYV9MoTzgF8EMs3.bxQGxemJ23T_NMgkH0obTabr6BTLV FAxbCvuUSCJLWXdGrv_eIW3SRwxVAjxg5gp61c8VWSLg6.IoEyxXX8GBLWA_krVY2PI_KsN4i8wh PamMCEk1VTzkvrEH.NcLQEciN0ZFUfcA4rBUwTOvKtdxYXr6Gmzeg8hiCX4HMH7Rtx9cEiYIpk3A KEwMh.f06ptN0c3Iq3pjfyG6kYrv9I96SoEfFH9.xvcrA7DkzWZcLtkDZYMG8JwIrGU00I9KYKrJ KUVgdx3cfAubqpQljT0XcdTIp4aPyijU.BGfL2tThlcYWRtGS4aq34b_kG7n52vmYm9geDevSinR sBf1Qv765e6gbdKGNiFnkgQ5Fi9S4Hx_SMa50Mm60lS2tH6tlcmIFRHjEuX0zjSVBySi7WMaDHbN U4bLQxgId93_yCNfiCBUffM3Utwvv55xEdyYcXeZO8jAzEv9n81sENIVZmSo1I2bk7af9VL17DkV MJ1rHteW66cKLehBfBrlY4pUmArgQZfCzNxezTXZEK_U_uMgK_vgvJWwa_4.EKcS6_4RMsoSuqAi e8HQzF6soyNNdFQDVwA-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic307.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 21:39:02 +0000 Received: by smtp414.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 7acdc034527bc4471dc727909b4818f6; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 21:39:00 +0000 (UTC) To: "Jim Stone" <1789alpine@gmail.com>, "shop-talk" References: <0DB802A9-83F6-4F66-835F-C256F88F5637@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 16:39:02 -0500 Importance: Normal Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fog and Driving Lights From: john niolon via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net SGkgSmltICAgSSBkaWQgc29tZXRoaW5nIHNpbWlsYXIgd2l0aCBhIGVsZWN0cmljYWxseSBvcGVy YXRlZCBob29kIG9uIG15IAp0cnVjayBwcm9qZWN0Li4uICBkb3VibGUgcG9sZSBkb3VibGUgdGhy b3cgc3dpdGNoLi4uICAgcG93ZXIgZmVlZHMgb24gY2VudGVyIApjb250YWN0cy4gIFVwIHJlbGF5 IGlzIGZlZCBmcm9tIHVwcGVyICB0d28gY29udGFjdHMgd2hlbiBzd2l0Y2ggaXMgbW92ZWQgdXAg CmFuZCB0aGUgIGRvd24gaXMgZmVkIGZyb20gbG93ZXIgdHdvIGNvbnRhY3RzIHdoZW4gdGhlIHN3 aXRjaCBpcyBkb3duLiAKQ2VudGVyIHBvc2l0aW9uIG9mIHN3aXRjaCBpcyBvZmYgb24gYm90aC4g ICBUaGUgdXBwZXIgYW5kIGxvd2VyIGNvbnRhY3RzIAp3b3VsZCBmZWVkIHN0YW5kYXJkIGF1dG8g cmVsYXlzICAgQlVUIHlvdSBjYW4ndCBoYXZlIGJvdGggb24gYXQgdGhlIHNhbWUgCnRpbWUgd2l0 aCB0aGlzIHNldHVwLiwsLiwuCgp0aGVzZSBndXlzIGNhbiBzZXQgeW91IHVwIHdpdGggcHJldHR5 IHN0dWZmIGFuZCBldmVuIGxhYmVsIHRoZW0gdGhlIHdheSB5b3UgCndhbnQuLi4gSSB1c2VkIHRo ZW0gaW4gbXkgdHJ1Y2sgZm9yIGRvb3JzL3dpbmRvd3MvaG9vZCBhY3R1YXRvcnMgCmh0dHBzOi8v cm9ja2Vyc3dpdGNocHJvcy5jb20vCgpqb2huCgotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLSAK RnJvbTogSmltIFN0b25lIHZpYSBTaG9wLXRhbGsKU2VudDogVGh1cnNkYXksIEFwcmlsIDMwLCAy MDIwIDM6MjggUE0KVG86IFNob3AgVGFsawpTdWJqZWN0OiBbU2hvcC10YWxrXSBGb2cgYW5kIERy aXZpbmcgTGlnaHRzCgpJIGhhdmUgbG9uZyB3YW50ZWQgdG8gaW5zdGFsbCAxIGZvZyBhbmQgMSBk cml2aW5nIGxpZ2h0IG9uIG15IEFscGluZSwgYW5kIApoYXZlIHRoZW0gd2lyZWQgc28gdGhhdCBJ IGNhbiBsaWdodCBlaXRoZXIgb25lIG9yIGJvdGggb2YgdGhlbS4gIFRoZXJlIHdhcyBhIApwZXJp b2QgNC1wb3NpdGlvbiByb3Rhcnkgc3dpdGNoIGZvciBkb2luZyB0aGlzIChvZmYgLSBvbjEgLSBv bjIgLSBvbjEmMikgYW5kIApJIGhhdmUgb25lLCBidXQgaXQgaXMgdWdseSBhcyBzaW4gYW5kIEni gJlkIGxpa2UgdG8gY29tZSB1cCB3aXRoIGEgbW9yZSAKYXR0cmFjdGl2ZSBzb2x1dGlvbi4gIElk ZWFsbHksIEkgd291bGQgbGlrZSB0byBjb252ZXJ0IGFuIHVubmVjZXNzYXJ5IHRvZ2dsZSAKc3dp dGNoIHNwYWNlIG9uIHRoZSBkYXNoIHRvIGEgZm9nL2RyaXZpbmcgbGlnaHQgc3dpdGNoLiAgTXkg aG9wZSBpcyB0byBwdXQgCmluIGEgRFBEVCBtb21lbnRhcnkgc3dpdGNoIChzb21ldGhpbmcgbGlr ZSB0aGlzIG9uZSwgYnV0IGhvcGVmdWxseSBJIGNhbiAKZmluZCBzb21ldGhpbmcgbW9yZSBhdHRy YWN0aXZlOiAKaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYW1hem9uLmNvbS9IZWF2eS1IYW5kbGUtTW9tZW50YXJ5LVRv Z2dsZS1Td2l0Y2gvZHAvQjAwMExGVkZBOCkgCmFuZCBhIHBhaXIgb2YgbGF0Y2hpbmcgcmVsYXlz LiAgVGhlIHRyaWNreSBwYXJ0IGlzIHRoYXQgSeKAmWQgbmVlZCB0aGUgcmVsYXlzIAp0byBsYXRj aCBvbiB3aXRoIHRoZSBmaXJzdCBwdWxzZSBhbmQgdHVybiBvZmYgd2l0aCB0aGUgc2Vjb25kLiAg U28sIHVwIG9uY2UgCnRvIHR1cm4gb24gdGhlIGZvZyBsaWdodCwgZG93biBvbmNlIHRvIHR1cm4g b24gdGhlIGRyaXZpbmcgbGlnaHQuICBVcCBvciAKZG93biBhIHNlY29uZCB0aW1lIHRvIHR1cm4g b2ZmIGVpdGhlciBsaWdodC4gIEhvcGVmdWxseSwgdGhhdCBtYWtlcyBzZW5zZS4KCkRvZXMgYW55 b25lIGtub3cgaWYgc3VjaCBhIHJlbGF5IGV4aXN0cz8gIElmIG5vdCwgaXMgdGhlcmUgYSBzaW1w bGUgY2lyY3VpdCAKdGhhdCB3b3VsZCBtYWtlIGEgc3RhbmRhcmQgcmVsYXkgd29yayBhcyBkZXNj cmliZWQ/CgpUaGFua3MsCkppbQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fXwoKU2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0CkRvbmF0ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50 ZWFtLm5ldC9kb25hdGUuaHRtbApTdWdnZXN0ZWQgYW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAkMTIuOTYKQXJj aGl2ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9waXBlcm1haWwvc2hvcC10YWxrIApodHRwOi8vYXV0 b3gudGVhbS5uZXQvYXJjaGl2ZQoKVW5zdWJzY3JpYmUvTWFuYWdlOiAKaHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRl YW0ubmV0L21haWxtYW4vb3B0aW9ucy9zaG9wLXRhbGsvam5pb2xvbkBhdHQubmV0CgpfX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwoKU2hvcC10YWxrQGF1dG94 LnRlYW0ubmV0CkRvbmF0ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9kb25hdGUuaHRtbApTdWdnZXN0 ZWQgYW5udWFsIGRvbmF0aW9uICAkMTIuOTYKQXJjaGl2ZTogaHR0cDovL3d3dy50ZWFtLm5ldC9w aXBlcm1haWwvc2hvcC10YWxrIGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9hcmNoaXZlCgpVbnN1YnNj cmliZS9NYW5hZ2U6IGh0dHA6Ly9hdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldC9tYWlsbWFuL29wdGlvbnMvc2hvcC10 YWxrL21oYXJjQGF1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0Cgo= From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 30 15:55:54 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A020A2398 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 15:55:54 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from sonic306-3.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com (unknown [74.6.132.42]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EECCA22E0 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 15:55:35 -0600 (MDT) t=1588283734; bh=rq04l6uUg51VXaBRte6hT/wkVXBNyUbTf39b/eNfDak=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=ezjyxYCzGox0ARSavKITz9jYmSk/2G5MoGCbYHjwWD2+eSSNGn/c8taUJseP35Vv56jIIx9Nn3xIBsTv7dLJbwgAgBoTstjcMtrI4bagSI/w2H2+9Q/yY8xbSqIQq9aLcUC5DU8xbG1AgLvoOdTfkFgYD8OxOESnpelXVYuboGb+G5ElRrndf+uSiuc75wheYiSUSA0XgVEpOFk/16tFQ+8ysQ9JIGP70QVZKGPw/PreXMoelNu6ihjmE2MPpH6F46lJvCU/tdfVAjVI7dT6tfs5AsnQjoD8q/Px4vkF7KKZIHpZRtP9l98Rft4U1BhAy1FiLShzchG4soyK44zAaw== 6VskBZlcxnL4lSJL.41LAR7HiO8B5Y41cUrPeSi30FcnrG_GkjJ0dqGgo_xvuf_DWNTkEv90oZ8_ 7lLvb2p6ATLy0NFu7JGxXJ1sYIFXCY483RAIIVxUAR8bE4oCKZ485BwYuCvb2cDJzxNGfrFxnkdb N439oOVpoXyAQqUE.wcZ.k79cFHjnFcIQwqNT8UM3gn8dNb4wThUfsK0VgaBmzRqp4AIflOWxrj. Gklbpcj9FLgRvlOH5AkhOLeBRVB1_hY7DpLClIJsUwO9RM0X.GNarsWnA52ozgFp.D033WObuw88 4yfeYNFQ7z.Edy3Yu643vzl3YULmAk.C1xkK2ryOIIMEdKmbqocAjFzYdOSyCF5HywFNLAil4hdm C.4S61IqD6o9iTFsde2gHUDGJhIqv8qpl8lvQQu0PBKUcE5mRngaP8h6L6fvOH_W96hfCv6j.y8Q w5KQZDwZLrOOuYJK4VFe_iTSNutpo10KFHGiIQ8MbkuV9qVN8a2rDXbSeroeuE6u2K9VBh71vzaP CGAmnYvS1s.EL0lGp78iaTIjjYYuSwCtICw8Wdn5HDNAk_P6S2eTEY4AIZOcZH.QbVxDvWZdT6jh nymeEb.VyMLEOik7DdBfOBQ9DwQn_W0JpFQUoZXvQRQCuciG8x5pHehNjkl436uUfjccShmiWGwQ xOL2RRngnryPDE4PmLi87Y_wfb7wD_fiH3xBLAFx.dt2iZISUD7j_kRKS6Fj4r935J3IpyW2Nwmw Rfx8_zBY_.XRGw1LGW98zVm_Fpdh0FWz9_a3ZJ0v1O57GiEm_F_hknY7L9n8qcWtcPW_68l6oonG V0amJ1PNCMY3sDQ55nH6OrQ9I4dtSgI9WG.3dSMKYy1pWB54bFOCQrusD2xbsLS9xOfrXlGYhPb0 bH9s5JdrTpd7awY_oBezBFe2aQUAoGuJq0qXNs_ah3T9JYqE11IvBhtH7QUywfgncYXdA23rBv18 _GDK1KrGhxAyFxGJSEL_J7rPF7nnGVcZI8wx4wp6HU62FoDzukLUvsRMT.19en8XlQ4q7VTn.vHl fS3WAAcZ8Fb6JLzKl6rt7FRV2lG7TShuvXKRSvMRGQFDiQA5EpQxpCSA9CRuvilLpkjXPUNBYeQK b7ehMr3MBIVuoI4HfK8fyi3qMi0PBO3n68puLsJUkgUz4kdipr2GEeBKE9SxoQaKNE92cQLyOQ3S ZRdRFvN6TPokFGHvoEowdNbVooWBZa7f7Y_JaSksIbjv.ip9mS5Qiqx0bNTDNMnTON3c1ZIyCbwu o0SiSBaXNtWW7Sd8tfcb7YyzRgU.QTdJepIbXVFCOsXBRJAkbxLLxCYB74cwXy_h9NgwG Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic306.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 21:55:34 +0000 Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 21:55:30 +0000 (UTC) To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" , "shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net" References: <0DB802A9-83F6-4F66-835F-C256F88F5637@gmail.com> x64; rv:75.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/75.0 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fog and Driving Lights From: DAVID MASSEY via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============3488404433777333705== boundary="----=_Part_72776_1429159638.1588283730728" ------=_Part_72776_1429159638.1588283730728 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What you need is what is called an alternate action relay.=C2=A0 This is a= bi-stable relay that will change from OFF to ON or ON to OFF each time the= coil is energized.=C2=A0 Like a pull chain light switch.=C2=A0 I remember = seeing such a device with an indexing cam that maintained the relay in the = state which ever was activated.=C2=A0 A quick look on the internet turned u= p nothing like that but there are a couple similar-acting relays that use e= lectronics instead. Here are a couple that work on 12 volts: https://czh-labs.com/panel-mount-momentary-switch-pulse-signal-control-latc= hing-spdt-relay-module12v-p1068.html?gclid=3DEAIaIQobChMI6LW6iY-R6QIVUtbACh= 3tsgrTEAQYDyABEgLjSPD_BwEor https://tinyurl.com/yd3ylfoj And=20 http://innovativecontrolsinc.com/documents.htmlClick on 3050510 Alternate A= ction Relay module =20 Dave=20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Jim Stone via Shop-talk To: Shop Talk Sent: Thu, Apr 30, 2020 3:28 pm Subject: [Shop-talk] Fog and Driving Lights I have long wanted to install 1 fog and 1 driving light on my Alpine, and h= ave them wired so that I can light either one or both of them.=C2=A0 There = was a period 4-position rotary switch for doing this (off - on1 - on2 - on1= &2) and I have one, but it is ugly as sin and I=E2=80=99d like to come up w= ith a more attractive solution.=C2=A0 Ideally, I would like to convert an u= nnecessary toggle switch space on the dash to a fog/driving light switch.= =C2=A0 My hope is to put in a DPDT momentary switch (something like this on= e, but hopefully I can find something more attractive: https://www.amazon.c= om/Heavy-Handle-Momentary-Toggle-Switch/dp/B000LFVFA8) and a pair of latchi= ng relays.=C2=A0 The tricky part is that I=E2=80=99d need the relays to lat= ch on with the first pulse and turn off with the second.=C2=A0 So, up once = to turn on the fog light, down once to turn on the driving light.=C2=A0 Up = or down a second time to turn off either light.=C2=A0 Hopefully, that makes= sense. Does anyone know if such a relay exists?=C2=A0 If not, is there a simple ci= rcuit that would make a standard relay work as described? Thanks, Jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch= ive ssey@cs.com ------=_Part_72776_1429159638.1588283730728 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What you need is what is called an alternate action = relay.  This is a bi-stable relay that will change from OFF to ON or O= N to OFF each time the coil is energized.  Like a pull chain light swi= tch.  I remember seeing such a device with an indexing cam that mainta= ined the relay in the state which ever was activated.  A quick look on= the internet turned up nothing like that but there are a couple similar-ac= ting relays that use electronics instead.

Here are a couple that work on 12 volts:

https://czh-labs.com/panel-mount-momentary-switch-pul= se-signal-control-latching-spdt-relay-module12v-p1068.html?gclid=3DEAIaIQob= ChMI6LW6iY-R6QIVUtbACh3tsgrTEAQYDyABEgLjSPD_BwE
or https://tinyurl.com/yd3ylfoj

And
http://innovativecontrolsinc.com/documents.html
Click on 3050510 Alternate Action Relay module=

Dave



-----= Original Message-----
From: Jim Stone via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net>
Sent: Thu, Apr 30, 2020 3:28 pm
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fog and Driving Lights

I have long wanted to install 1 fog and 1 driving light on= my Alpine, and have them wired so that I can light either one or both of t= hem.  There was a period 4-position rotary switch for doing this (off = - on1 - on2 - on1&2) and I have one, but it is ugly as sin and I=E2=80= =99d like to come up with a more attractive solution.  Ideally, I woul= d like to convert an unnecessary toggle switch space on the dash to a fog/d= riving light switch.  My hope is to put in a DPDT momentary switch (so= mething like this one, but hopefully I can find something more attractive: = https://www.amazon.com/Heavy-Handle-Momentary-= Toggle-Switch/dp/B000LFVFA8) and a pair of latching relays.  The t= ricky part is that I=E2=80=99d need the relays to latch on with the first p= ulse and turn off with the second.  So, up once to turn on the fog lig= ht, down once to turn on the driving light.  Up or down a second time = to turn off either light.  Hopefully, that makes sense.

Does anyone know if such a relay exists?  If not, is = there a simple circuit that would make a standard relay work as described?<= br>

Thanks,
Jim
_______________________________________________

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------=_Part_72776_1429159638.1588283730728-- --===============3488404433777333705== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============3488404433777333705==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 30 15:56:29 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8462FA2452 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 15:56:29 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net Received: from sonic306-3.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com (unknown [74.6.132.42]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C07AA22D9 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 15:55:35 -0600 (MDT) t=1588283734; bh=rq04l6uUg51VXaBRte6hT/wkVXBNyUbTf39b/eNfDak=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=ezjyxYCzGox0ARSavKITz9jYmSk/2G5MoGCbYHjwWD2+eSSNGn/c8taUJseP35Vv56jIIx9Nn3xIBsTv7dLJbwgAgBoTstjcMtrI4bagSI/w2H2+9Q/yY8xbSqIQq9aLcUC5DU8xbG1AgLvoOdTfkFgYD8OxOESnpelXVYuboGb+G5ElRrndf+uSiuc75wheYiSUSA0XgVEpOFk/16tFQ+8ysQ9JIGP70QVZKGPw/PreXMoelNu6ihjmE2MPpH6F46lJvCU/tdfVAjVI7dT6tfs5AsnQjoD8q/Px4vkF7KKZIHpZRtP9l98Rft4U1BhAy1FiLShzchG4soyK44zAaw== 6VskBZlcxnL4lSJL.41LAR7HiO8B5Y41cUrPeSi30FcnrG_GkjJ0dqGgo_xvuf_DWNTkEv90oZ8_ 7lLvb2p6ATLy0NFu7JGxXJ1sYIFXCY483RAIIVxUAR8bE4oCKZ485BwYuCvb2cDJzxNGfrFxnkdb N439oOVpoXyAQqUE.wcZ.k79cFHjnFcIQwqNT8UM3gn8dNb4wThUfsK0VgaBmzRqp4AIflOWxrj. Gklbpcj9FLgRvlOH5AkhOLeBRVB1_hY7DpLClIJsUwO9RM0X.GNarsWnA52ozgFp.D033WObuw88 4yfeYNFQ7z.Edy3Yu643vzl3YULmAk.C1xkK2ryOIIMEdKmbqocAjFzYdOSyCF5HywFNLAil4hdm C.4S61IqD6o9iTFsde2gHUDGJhIqv8qpl8lvQQu0PBKUcE5mRngaP8h6L6fvOH_W96hfCv6j.y8Q w5KQZDwZLrOOuYJK4VFe_iTSNutpo10KFHGiIQ8MbkuV9qVN8a2rDXbSeroeuE6u2K9VBh71vzaP CGAmnYvS1s.EL0lGp78iaTIjjYYuSwCtICw8Wdn5HDNAk_P6S2eTEY4AIZOcZH.QbVxDvWZdT6jh nymeEb.VyMLEOik7DdBfOBQ9DwQn_W0JpFQUoZXvQRQCuciG8x5pHehNjkl436uUfjccShmiWGwQ xOL2RRngnryPDE4PmLi87Y_wfb7wD_fiH3xBLAFx.dt2iZISUD7j_kRKS6Fj4r935J3IpyW2Nwmw Rfx8_zBY_.XRGw1LGW98zVm_Fpdh0FWz9_a3ZJ0v1O57GiEm_F_hknY7L9n8qcWtcPW_68l6oonG V0amJ1PNCMY3sDQ55nH6OrQ9I4dtSgI9WG.3dSMKYy1pWB54bFOCQrusD2xbsLS9xOfrXlGYhPb0 bH9s5JdrTpd7awY_oBezBFe2aQUAoGuJq0qXNs_ah3T9JYqE11IvBhtH7QUywfgncYXdA23rBv18 _GDK1KrGhxAyFxGJSEL_J7rPF7nnGVcZI8wx4wp6HU62FoDzukLUvsRMT.19en8XlQ4q7VTn.vHl fS3WAAcZ8Fb6JLzKl6rt7FRV2lG7TShuvXKRSvMRGQFDiQA5EpQxpCSA9CRuvilLpkjXPUNBYeQK b7ehMr3MBIVuoI4HfK8fyi3qMi0PBO3n68puLsJUkgUz4kdipr2GEeBKE9SxoQaKNE92cQLyOQ3S ZRdRFvN6TPokFGHvoEowdNbVooWBZa7f7Y_JaSksIbjv.ip9mS5Qiqx0bNTDNMnTON3c1ZIyCbwu o0SiSBaXNtWW7Sd8tfcb7YyzRgU.QTdJepIbXVFCOsXBRJAkbxLLxCYB74cwXy_h9NgwG Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic306.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 21:55:34 +0000 Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 21:55:30 +0000 (UTC) To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" , "shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net" References: <0DB802A9-83F6-4F66-835F-C256F88F5637@gmail.com> x64; rv:75.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/75.0 Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fog and Driving Lights From: DAVID MASSEY via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============8228692698115599420== boundary="----=_Part_72776_1429159638.1588283730728" ------=_Part_72776_1429159638.1588283730728 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What you need is what is called an alternate action relay.=C2=A0 This is a= bi-stable relay that will change from OFF to ON or ON to OFF each time the= coil is energized.=C2=A0 Like a pull chain light switch.=C2=A0 I remember = seeing such a device with an indexing cam that maintained the relay in the = state which ever was activated.=C2=A0 A quick look on the internet turned u= p nothing like that but there are a couple similar-acting relays that use e= lectronics instead. Here are a couple that work on 12 volts: https://czh-labs.com/panel-mount-momentary-switch-pulse-signal-control-latc= hing-spdt-relay-module12v-p1068.html?gclid=3DEAIaIQobChMI6LW6iY-R6QIVUtbACh= 3tsgrTEAQYDyABEgLjSPD_BwEor https://tinyurl.com/yd3ylfoj And=20 http://innovativecontrolsinc.com/documents.htmlClick on 3050510 Alternate A= ction Relay module =20 Dave=20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Jim Stone via Shop-talk To: Shop Talk Sent: Thu, Apr 30, 2020 3:28 pm Subject: [Shop-talk] Fog and Driving Lights I have long wanted to install 1 fog and 1 driving light on my Alpine, and h= ave them wired so that I can light either one or both of them.=C2=A0 There = was a period 4-position rotary switch for doing this (off - on1 - on2 - on1= &2) and I have one, but it is ugly as sin and I=E2=80=99d like to come up w= ith a more attractive solution.=C2=A0 Ideally, I would like to convert an u= nnecessary toggle switch space on the dash to a fog/driving light switch.= =C2=A0 My hope is to put in a DPDT momentary switch (something like this on= e, but hopefully I can find something more attractive: https://www.amazon.c= om/Heavy-Handle-Momentary-Toggle-Switch/dp/B000LFVFA8) and a pair of latchi= ng relays.=C2=A0 The tricky part is that I=E2=80=99d need the relays to lat= ch on with the first pulse and turn off with the second.=C2=A0 So, up once = to turn on the fog light, down once to turn on the driving light.=C2=A0 Up = or down a second time to turn off either light.=C2=A0 Hopefully, that makes= sense. Does anyone know if such a relay exists?=C2=A0 If not, is there a simple ci= rcuit that would make a standard relay work as described? Thanks, Jim _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/arch= ive ssey@cs.com ------=_Part_72776_1429159638.1588283730728 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What you need is what is called an alternate action = relay.  This is a bi-stable relay that will change from OFF to ON or O= N to OFF each time the coil is energized.  Like a pull chain light swi= tch.  I remember seeing such a device with an indexing cam that mainta= ined the relay in the state which ever was activated.  A quick look on= the internet turned up nothing like that but there are a couple similar-ac= ting relays that use electronics instead.

Here are a couple that work on 12 volts:

https://czh-labs.com/panel-mount-momentary-switch-pul= se-signal-control-latching-spdt-relay-module12v-p1068.html?gclid=3DEAIaIQob= ChMI6LW6iY-R6QIVUtbACh3tsgrTEAQYDyABEgLjSPD_BwE
or https://tinyurl.com/yd3ylfoj

And
http://innovativecontrolsinc.com/documents.html
Click on 3050510 Alternate Action Relay module=

Dave



-----= Original Message-----
From: Jim Stone via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
To: Shop Talk <shop-talk@Autox.Team.Net>
Sent: Thu, Apr 30, 2020 3:28 pm
Subject: [Shop-talk] Fog and Driving Lights

I have long wanted to install 1 fog and 1 driving light on= my Alpine, and have them wired so that I can light either one or both of t= hem.  There was a period 4-position rotary switch for doing this (off = - on1 - on2 - on1&2) and I have one, but it is ugly as sin and I=E2=80= =99d like to come up with a more attractive solution.  Ideally, I woul= d like to convert an unnecessary toggle switch space on the dash to a fog/d= riving light switch.  My hope is to put in a DPDT momentary switch (so= mething like this one, but hopefully I can find something more attractive: = https://www.amazon.com/Heavy-Handle-Momentary-= Toggle-Switch/dp/B000LFVFA8) and a pair of latching relays.  The t= ricky part is that I=E2=80=99d need the relays to latch on with the first p= ulse and turn off with the second.  So, up once to turn on the fog lig= ht, down once to turn on the driving light.  Up or down a second time = to turn off either light.  Hopefully, that makes sense.

Does anyone know if such a relay exists?  If not, is = there a simple circuit that would make a standard relay work as described?<= br>

Thanks,
Jim
_______________________________________________

Suggested annual donation  $12.96


------=_Part_72776_1429159638.1588283730728-- --===============8228692698115599420== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============8228692698115599420==-- From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 30 17:12:42 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF719A16A1 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 17:12:42 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qk1-f180.google.com (unknown [209.85.222.180]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62FC4A10A3 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 17:12:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-qk1-f180.google.com with SMTP id s9so4987067qkm.6 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 16:12:37 -0700 (PDT) h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:date:subject:message-id :references:in-reply-to:to; bh=kPeE2RUWNTBQoIMG2FmRGRdwnGLc264Uqhnt+5mdZQ8=; b=dlovCLbTDuBY2R5CkWRSGYtv4Rp6TBC/8M/abXvSX41pAcLKp7dLsX2ZYHlMkfOjWN QfH8pFQ3V5Tj4Sq5yRz9Pgb09Cid/ANUIVQ2BTYETXOMAB50e26RjYO5p+2KVfNGS9Ln ANimOzHd20yTAnKctADTNQ117zd2A1Ha+4GIZTtcyFsiUtUS5w94aZ12gwMTJXOzYDgc oa1E8fg0JLrhKz3nYsL3vk7/QB/RDDZv9xCAcF9NdkSG8tRJB3LCLs88KQdMfflQXYKI nFVAO15gPI6cYUMBH0VZB75cMYixps7slVlM+v0VVg/WfwtS0pZAGy9MRnb/mE2CEuOX N1hw== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:date :subject:message-id:references:in-reply-to:to; bh=kPeE2RUWNTBQoIMG2FmRGRdwnGLc264Uqhnt+5mdZQ8=; b=L5VhcIcDDWn+2rbgbp6Qh0sgBLyOg9pd7zgD2asCP4aE7TavNGe+/YcV9i2K96kOMb EN6hEN6GnOtuT3cAOBlZvQtnrWWgd5YoDu9XbMI1seMxqj8SqjpbxnFr8U8ZdlQ2iSlR ahUf4sPPmgdq92xFhdb7kPdQCzPo5S72xKAbzQnU3jnZtOLwtILZQEwQJLFANHwX9Qdn rm1o30hl4VDzpbqIIqEb1VYNyfAihl6nkFAqjySpc32C7sbF4RkZRXpvcJ4kHZPe3Tu0 TAN3xWPjaBe8nJUeNQyYAiXe81ynVWNpO5C9Zj4C+4dkwcUarkRzYYmkjoXjk/6Vf4Tz bHLA== SIHAyiwgzdmGuLBXVZ7fQ78MoHNh Thu, 30 Apr 2020 16:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (ool-18bed2ba.dyn.optonline.net. [24.190.210.186]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v2sm1162912qth.66.2020.04.30.16.12.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 30 Apr 2020 16:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 19:12:35 -0400 References: <0DB802A9-83F6-4F66-835F-C256F88F5637@gmail.com> To: John Mitchell , Shop Talk Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fog and Driving Lights From: Jim Stone via Shop-talk Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net VGhhbmtzIGd1eXMuIFRoYXQgaXMgZXhhY3RseSB0aGUgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gSSBuZWVkZWQuIEkg YWx3YXlzIGFzc3VtZWQgdGhhdCB3aGF0IEkgd2FudGVkIGV4aXN0ZWQsIGJ1dCBuZXZlciBrbmV3 IHRoZSB0ZXJtaW5vbG9neSB0byBsb29rIGZvciBpdCEKClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBpUGhvbmUKCj4g T24gQXByIDMwLCAyMDIwLCBhdCA2OjQzIFBNLCBKb2huIE1pdGNoZWxsIDxqbWl0Y2hAc25ldC5u ZXQ+IHdyb3RlOgo+IAo+IENhbiB5b3UgcG9zdCBhIHBpY3R1cmUgb2YgdGhlIHVnbHkgcGVyaW9k IGNvcnJlY3Qgc3dpdGNoLCBqdXN0IGZvciBnaWdnbGVzPyAgIFRoYW5rcwo+IAo+PiBPbiA0LzMw LzIwMjAgNDoyOCBQTSwgSmltIFN0b25lIHZpYSBTaG9wLXRhbGsgd3JvdGU6Cj4+IEkgaGF2ZSBs b25nIHdhbnRlZCB0byBpbnN0YWxsIDEgZm9nIGFuZCAxIGRyaXZpbmcgbGlnaHQgb24gbXkgQWxw aW5lLCBhbmQgaGF2ZSB0aGVtIHdpcmVkIHNvIHRoYXQgSSBjYW4gbGlnaHQgZWl0aGVyIG9uZSBv ciBib3RoIG9mIHRoZW0uICBUaGVyZSB3YXMgYSBwZXJpb2QgNC1wb3NpdGlvbiByb3Rhcnkgc3dp dGNoIGZvciBkb2luZyB0aGlzIChvZmYgLSBvbjEgLSBvbjIgLSBvbjEmMikgYW5kIEkgaGF2ZSBv bmUsIGJ1dCBpdCBpcyB1Z2x5IGFzIHNpbiBhbmQgSeKAmWQgbGlrZSB0byBjb21lIHVwIHdpdGgg YSBtb3JlIGF0dHJhY3RpdmUgc29sdXRpb24uICBJZGVhbGx5LCBJIHdvdWxkIGxpa2UgdG8gY29u dmVydCBhbiB1bm5lY2Vzc2FyeSB0b2dnbGUgc3dpdGNoIHNwYWNlIG9uIHRoZSBkYXNoIHRvIGEg Zm9nL2RyaXZpbmcgbGlnaHQgc3dpdGNoLiAgTXkgaG9wZSBpcyB0byBwdXQgaW4gYSBEUERUIG1v bWVudGFyeSBzd2l0Y2ggKHNvbWV0aGluZyBsaWtlIHRoaXMgb25lLCBidXQgaG9wZWZ1bGx5IEkg Y2FuIGZpbmQgc29tZXRoaW5nIG1vcmUgYXR0cmFjdGl2ZTogaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYW1hem9uLmNv bS9IZWF2eS1IYW5kbGUtTW9tZW50YXJ5LVRvZ2dsZS1Td2l0Y2gvZHAvQjAwMExGVkZBOCkgYW5k IGEgcGFpciBvZiBsYXRjaGluZyByZWxheXMuICBUaGUgdHJpY2t5IHBhcnQgaXMgdGhhdCBJ4oCZ ZCBuZWVkIHRoZSByZWxheXMgdG8gbGF0Y2ggb24gd2l0aCB0aGUgZmlyc3QgcHVsc2UgYW5kIHR1 cm4gb2ZmIHdpdGggdGhlIHNlY29uZC4gIFNvLCB1cCBvbmNlIHRvIHR1cm4gb24gdGhlIGZvZyBs aWdodCwgZG93biBvbmNlIHRvIHR1cm4gb24gdGhlIGRyaXZpbmcgbGlnaHQuICBVcCBvciBkb3du IGEgc2Vjb25kIHRpbWUgdG8gdHVybiBvZmYgZWl0aGVyIGxpZ2h0LiAgSG9wZWZ1bGx5LCB0aGF0 IG1ha2VzIHNlbnNlLgo+PiAKPj4gRG9lcyBhbnlvbmUga25vdyBpZiBzdWNoIGEgcmVsYXkgZXhp c3RzPyAgSWYgbm90LCBpcyB0aGVyZSBhIHNpbXBsZSBjaXJjdWl0IHRoYXQgd291bGQgbWFrZSBh IHN0YW5kYXJkIHJlbGF5IHdvcmsgYXMgZGVzY3JpYmVkPwo+PiAKPj4gVGhhbmtzLAo+PiBKaW0K Pj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KPj4gCj4+ IFNob3AtdGFsa0BhdXRveC50ZWFtLm5ldAo+PiBEb25hdGU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQv ZG9uYXRlLmh0bWwKPj4gU3VnZ2VzdGVkIGFubnVhbCBkb25hdGlvbiAgJDEyLjk2Cj4+IEFyY2hp dmU6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cudGVhbS5uZXQvcGlwZXJtYWlsL3Nob3AtdGFsayBodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gu dGVhbS5uZXQvYXJjaGl2ZQo+PiAKPj4gVW5zdWJzY3JpYmUvTWFuYWdlOiBodHRwOi8vYXV0b3gu dGVhbS5uZXQvbWFpbG1hbi9vcHRpb25zL3Nob3AtdGFsay9qbWl0Y2hAc25ldC5uZXQKPj4gCj4g Cl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCgpTaG9wLXRh bGtAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQKRG9uYXRlOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnRlYW0ubmV0L2RvbmF0ZS5odG1s ClN1Z2dlc3RlZCBhbm51YWwgZG9uYXRpb24gICQxMi45NgpBcmNoaXZlOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LnRl YW0ubmV0L3BpcGVybWFpbC9zaG9wLXRhbGsgaHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0L2FyY2hpdmUK ClVuc3Vic2NyaWJlL01hbmFnZTogaHR0cDovL2F1dG94LnRlYW0ubmV0L21haWxtYW4vb3B0aW9u cy9zaG9wLXRhbGsvbWhhcmNAYXV0b3gudGVhbS5uZXQKCg== From shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Apr 30 18:56:02 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from [50.198.190.17] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E95A1A1578 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 18:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ot1-f43.google.com (unknown [209.85.210.43]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACF30A0C2E for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 18:55:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-ot1-f43.google.com with SMTP id 72so1430461otu.1 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 17:55:54 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=LAFoMZhzy/kjidLtpN/hDpJ8JT6knsCZRTtFTdYlJso=; b=HJJAIoQp7KD31rEQjWQtcEts9dRreDjgGFi3dCSL1VBGPtZuDP46sezqhFtf6Xxy/l z7Rw5TAfWshzLdUnV0Xu3gs2pScbKvMy367QBTo5VbMfm+E5MeEt4rtY4yQLm7oM2ZAc hb0joUiHt5SgxM9jKjw6G9Ra2ZnHkGU5mk+BNokK/XDWXlyuK4v9h6ajw0uJOGq34qhx XadFcgWTdbkiV2JEZDPI8YfzxoATBjB7sbVHuyT4S2tfbGylZ1EMhCUcn1Ikzo2Wb43z WT1Kl4rDTfufpQltg6bWBiMesCZwLMW1YQEA5MEjbAh0Ee5Wvekl7B01AJIJbwEV/NwG 4iNQ== d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=LAFoMZhzy/kjidLtpN/hDpJ8JT6knsCZRTtFTdYlJso=; b=fsbUeseMKkdP8Y5YTXs0MFaPh45K7N/v6CUF1fgZetjNz2F0RTfmGblDRrPOmqApTb wyXwar+aXbVICrw/BUZP2yNzVN3dmQ9ykelhOj81NXyHlNaKI7YyAX0ZZ7HJByOonL/B YcxWTKIw9vEMDoLckADpmPdK54U1bXZFo6dscz6CTJqn0dwyNruwTcMOdsEAuR5UdUpY hhaLaY4Rr2u5TsIWhM7lVsmMSBPmdX6NgcCOIqNPdGSnqN4q6D8YFI9dnwou0DNz0nyw qf0s23jfCRd+bZJj+Q2DmzkcqH+ygTgCs3wAxPyq2BF+FjMHJfkOsZqMXFPDXWVNK+Ek AniA== rxIZ8H3I2RZPH0glLKExh9ckbIbGHydplAYUQ/mC51dk Thu, 30 Apr 2020 17:55:53 -0700 (PDT) References: <0DB802A9-83F6-4F66-835F-C256F88F5637@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 20:55:43 -0400 To: "shop-talk@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Fog and Driving Lights From: Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk Errors-To: shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net --===============4492485555256488300== --000000000000ade55405a48ba462 On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 5:47 PM Jim Stone via Shop-talk < shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote: > > Does anyone know if such a relay exists? If not, is there a simple > circuit that would make a standard relay work as described? > If I recall correctly, a pair of old VW headlight dimming relays would be a period-correct solution. Grounding the relay by pulling on the turn signal lever would flip-flop the relay between high beam and low beam. Or, in your case, on or off. The old relays had to have the headlights on to power them, you would need to figure out how to remind yourself to turn the lights off or use a relay on the ignition wire to control the power. Or, use one of them high-falutin' electronic gadgets... --000000000000ade55405a48ba462 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 5:47 PM Jim S= tone via Shop-talk <shop-tal= k@autox.team.net> wrote:

Does anyone know if such a relay exists?=C2=A0 If not, is there a simple ci= rcuit that would make a standard relay work as described?

=C2=A0If I recall correctly, a pair of old= VW headlight dimming relays would be a period-correct solution.=C2=A0 Grou= nding the relay by pulling on the turn signal lever would flip-flop the rel= ay between high beam and low beam.=C2=A0 Or, in your case, on or off.=C2=A0= The old relays had to have the headlights on to power them, you would need= to figure out how to remind yourself to turn the lights off or use a relay= on the ignition wire to control=C2=A0the power.

Or, use one of them= high-falutin' electronic gadgets...
--000000000000ade55405a48ba462-- --===============4492485555256488300== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Shop-talk@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive --===============4492485555256488300==--
On Fri, Apr 24, = 2020 at 10:31 AM Al Fuller via Shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net> wrote:

Jeff [and all= ]:

=C2=A0

As regards the comment you made below that the generators ge= t exercised 30 minutes a week: Please keep in mind that its sounds like you= meant to say the diesel engines get exercised [as opposed to the generator= s].

=C2=A0

The difference is the generator set also includes the tran= sfer switch, wiring and other components. I had one client that fired up th= e diesel weekly, but when a wind storm blew down the power lines, the facil= ity was down for a week while they tried to locate a new transfer switch. I= t turned out the building housed a lot more people and equipment than when = the generator set was first specified and the switch set couldn=E2=80=99t s= upport the load.=C2=A0 It was very frustrating to have a working diesel gen= erator, but unable to power the building!

=C2=A0

As a validation perso= n, our motto is if it needs to work, it needs to be tested ahead of time = =E2=80=93 in the same way you would use it.

=C2=A0

----------------=

All the best,

=C2=A0

Al Fuller

=C2=A0

From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Je= ff Scarbrough via Shop-talk
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 9:15 AM<= br>To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] diesel fue= l question

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

We have two 500kW generators at work.=C2=A0 Each has a 140= 0 gallon tank; we go through about 500-800 gallons per year.=C2=A0 I expect= that, despite the fact that these generators are having their=C2=A021st bi= rthday this=C2=A0year, there is still some portion of fuel in the tank that= is 21 years old.=C2=A0 This bothers me a little bit, but it keeps working.= =C2=A0 We did throw a jug of biocide in one year with the fresh fuel.

=C2=A0

=

Having said that, we have a service guy come in twic= e a year to check fluids and change filters, and they get exercised 30 minu= tes a week just to make sure they will run when we need them.=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

<= /div>

Do like the others=C2=A0have said:=C2=A0 c= heck filters, check a fuel sample from the tank, and let us know what you f= ind.

=C2=A0=

There exist people who do fuel polish= ing - they come to your large ship or tank farm and run an extra fuel clean= ing and refreshing for your stored diesel fuel.=C2=A0 Might be a bit of ove= rkill on the farm.

=C2=A0

Jeff Scarbrough=

Corrosion Acres, Ga.=

=C2=A0

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:46 AM eric--- via Shop-t= alk <shop-= talk@autox.team.net> wrote:

Does anyone know of a way to tel= l if diesel fuel has gone bad?

Here is my situation.=C2=A0 I have a large d= iesel fuel tank for my tractors on my property (so I don't have to buy = 'over the road' diesel.) =C2=A0The fuel in there has been there a f= ew years.

My newest tractor (a small 25hp subcompact) started acting funny.= =C2=A0 At full throttle, it seems to sputter a little.

Could be a fuel prob= lem, but I would love to test the diesel somehow. Or is there a way of look= ing at the filter on the tractor? Or another test to do?

Related follow up,= if the fuel is bad, and I have about 50 gals in a 250 tank.=C2=A0 Can I ju= st add fresh fuel to it, or do I need to drain out all the bad first?=C2=A0= What would be a good bad/good ratio to dilute the bad fuel?
Thanks!=


&q= uot;Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rationa= l being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." Ral= ph Waldo Emerson
-Who is John Galt?_____________________________= __________________

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