From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 12 07:02:36 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8A7543C9F for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 07:02:36 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from qmta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.32]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED13640323 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 07:00:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from omta20.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.87]) by qmta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id BotV1m0041smiN4A3p0TXo; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 13:00:27 +0000 Received: from sz0130.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.40.137]) by omta20.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Bp0T1m00M2xZMJ48gp0T2r; Mon, 12 Aug 2013 13:00:27 +0000 Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 13:00:26 +0000 (UTC) From: s1500@comcast.net To: spitfires@autox.team.net s=q20121106; t=1376312427; bh=WPHtIOz1GG3dw1PmAxCWZPT4LavQTQ4A3FJ+0M2XsoU=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=U0VRHtCnwXd/mGOXryssZDnzA6LLQw97kqAMHGvz/AFVvjSyLXDZnscfqantp3PZ0 X6buY4tZwQk6j4+fcO1Do2kv+ZrgrxMeZFboZUxLVJ7CtahEVbeKhzFhZFqagde78J rBzv59LhE+55IrRFaYv1LCCZYDMlS/tBeOadwpw8sVZ0bqC2gGCBwAKGIaG5tGVJ0K V1M0DyvdcumWXwiG7kV5nxZ8pheyk68wlUfD8ZRorHDpsQ0q8p77x8soQuUS27rTnT +BrVKP6VHszXN+v9nRof0y0CwGTtNAGvqPrpcnHSgKtBMydMh4689YOyDw/S5pNgju mE57+I8tFSrbg== Subject: [Spits] Looking to sell my '79 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net With increasing debts & less time to enjoy my car, I'm looking into perhaps selling my beloved. It's a '79 with 77Kish miles, inca yellow with overdrive. I'm in the twin cities, so email me for more details if you're interested. Owned it since '94. _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Aug 21 23:02:18 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 853D44053C for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 23:02:18 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [74.208.4.201]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B9A540066 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2013 22:58:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailout-us.gmx.com ([172.19.198.47]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmxus001) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0M7YEl-1VxrKH15WB-00xHFD for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2013 06:58:10 +0200 Received: (qmail 12146 invoked by uid 0); 22 Aug 2013 04:58:10 -0000 Received: from 76.84.97.85 by rms-us002 with HTTP Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 00:58:08 -0400 From: "Joe Guinan" To: spitfires@autox.team.net x-registered: 0 Subject: [Spits] Spitfire vintage race car package for sale Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net I made a strong effort to buy this car, trailer, and spares package but have had to pull the plug on the deal. Thought I should help the owner spread the word of its availability. It's a beauty of a car, well and sensibly built, nicely finished, very presentable and reliable. B If I could have made the finances work, I'd be the owner in about two weeks. B Fate intervened, and I'll have to redouble work on the ex-SCCA car to have it ready for spring Driver's Training. The car is in the Boulder, CO. area. B Photos of the entire package can be seen on FLICKR at; http://www.flickr.com/photos/99588681@N02/sets I can answer some questions, but am certainly not an authority on this car. B The owners are Steve and Renee Von Roenn and can be reached via email at wolf776gang@comcast.net Joe Guinan Fremont, NE _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Aug 25 18:14:32 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA657403ED for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2013 18:14:32 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oa0-f52.google.com (mail-oa0-f52.google.com [209.85.219.52]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49D30403D4 for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2013 18:14:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-oa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id f4so2885492oah.39 for ; Sun, 25 Aug 2013 17:14:23 -0700 (PDT) s=20120113; h=subject:from:content-type:message-id:date:to :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=iAPip81Ly6E5RYU3MY1GzinexoV3M/c/Xw1DU6CulTk=; b=TRK2HocRY5Onn1z6mRUbjJeB+JRtZ5qO3F/ehxChF4wcmXDLMd4Of5xLovRqMY6AhN yOuVdOK4m1RLumMrNHDwb6zj4l+RpzIotcyE4kjJHhttCCnW5605QVuLcirCEV0ppeRG UYl+HMQMJ5CLAOB86YhUzqUPcdM/fljwthiLt3GveczN+TvQPjlSF36u8JBxGZ0npE4M KTXLBl8O4ZUTImtYyQhHd88Uu9U0z2/VPpJN/25ThY+weHHZWmjdeJ5pWWDgjwX4XWww CdjDAsHag2GXR2k9tFIdTtCee7grrmUdeAc+WIUZOFz5n72Ycuy7cRKFUesO4ucV/Pp7 Tt3w== nz2mr4016029obc.37.1377476062958; Sun, 25 Aug 2013 17:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.27.35.150] (108-254-212-29.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net. [108.254.212.29]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id d3sm12048212oek.5.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 25 Aug 2013 17:14:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Hans Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 17:14:21 -0700 To: spitfires@autox.team.net Subject: [Spits] High compression pistons and smog test Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net I am rebuilding my California 1976 spitfire's engine and considering using Moss's HC flat top pistons instead of the LC (dished) ones. I have been told that I risk failing the NOx smog test max requirement. I understand that this is due to the combustion chamber's temperature potentially exceeding 2500 degrees , which generates NOx. Assuming the EGR to function perfectly and the fuel mixture to a bit rich, is this still potentially a high risk problem? There must be a few a guys out there that have been tempted to do this to get the nearly 20 extra hp. That is so badly needed. _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 26 19:14:59 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA3564040D for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 19:14:59 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from nm21-vm3.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm21-vm3.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.79]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD29340078 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 19:14:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [216.39.60.173] by nm21.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Aug 2013 01:14:41 -0000 Received: from [216.39.60.161] by tm9.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Aug 2013 01:14:41 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1027.access.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Aug 2013 01:14:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 34864 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Aug 2013 01:14:41 -0000 s=s1024; t=1377566081; bh=I9W9jwX9SDmgBQrpAnvvWIyKAOreAylFCZhkLQ7YSc4=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Z5p7QLhP8vzaX+Vx8QFRkRg+z8QmC8Nx/uRFsFYIDCuqxa+V5/CKzVfjDwPcIqSiFobznNNFIPfcxqEB9OMLh9xVVzDGHwn3Kvm3KK3j8OMXPfa6CCJw5y16URJlgtHRy/22L1jnx9Y3srCtMWzP5eRSNQl0Hoa+AluZdBfgnQE= s=s1024; d=att.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=nimE1SjH3xhZGD6tB/nG9hKvlj67TktNfmWi672eXIb/pY/NLUaokDADMiBNVmTFF5EComV9w8b7Dw1B/uEp6q2J3hxj+nfvupyJBmcWBg/mXx11lFJ3jDJjH34oCVHTxJXs1C4QbAiP0R/Zshyt0ys09tRFHeYjusuGK8s3/q0=; Received: from [192.189.128.15] by web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 18:14:40 PDT Tk94IHByb2R1Y3Rpb24gaW4gdGhlIGNvbWJ1c3Rpb24gY2hhbWJlciBpcyBkZXBlbmRhbnQgb24gZmxhbWUgdGVtcGVyYXR1cmUgYW5kIGNvbWJ1c3Rpb24gcHJlc3N1cmUuCkluY3JlYXNpbmcgdGhlIGNvbXByZXNzaW9uIHJhdGlvIHdpbGwgaGF2ZSBsaXR0bGUgZWZmZWN0IG9uIHRoZSBmbGFtZSB0ZW1wZXJhdHVyZSBidXQgaXQgd2lsbCBuY3JlYXNlIHRoZSBjb21idXN0aW9uIHByZXNzdXJlIHdoaWNoIHdpbGwgaW5jcmVhc2UgTk94LiAKSSBoYXZlIG5vIGV4cGVyaWVuY2Ugd2l0aCByZWNpcHJvY2F0aW4BMAEBAQE- References: Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 18:14:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Stuart Greenwood To: "spitfires@autox.team.net" , "sukaspit@gmail.com" Subject: Re: [Spits] Spitfires Digest, Vol 7, Issue 48 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net NOx production in the combustion chamber is dependant on flame temperature and combustion pressure. Increasing the compression ratio will have little effect on the flame temperature but it will ncrease the combustion pressure which will increase NOx. I have no experience with reciprocating engines but in a gas turbine engine the NOx increases by the square root of the pressure. Assuming that this is the case in a recip, then going from ,say 9 :1 compression ratio ro 10 :1 will increase the Nox by 5.5% The EGR valve system is calibrated to admit sufficient exhaust gas into the combustion chamber to reduce the NOx to whatever the regulations require. This calibration is done with the standard compression ratio for the engine. If you increase the compression ratio the calibration will not be correct. despite the above I think that since the California smog test is done at very low power settings I would be surprised if increasing the compression ratio had any significant effect on NOx readings. However when you raise the compression ratio you will get detonation unless you retard the ignition, because the best fuel you can get in Ca is 91 Octane, and this will reduce power. So don't think that you can get the engine back to MkIII power levels. I suggest if you want more power sell the Spit and buy a TR ! Stuart A Greenwood 71 MK I Stag 71 MK IV Spitfire ________________________________ From: "spitfires-request@autox.team.net" To: spitfires@autox.team.net Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 11:00 AM Subject: Spitfires Digest, Vol 7, Issue 48 Send Spitfires mailing list submissions to spitfires@autox.team.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to spitfires-request@autox.team.net You can reach the person managing the list at spitfires-owner@autox.team.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Spitfires digest..." Today's Topics: 1. High compression pistons and smog test (Hans) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 17:14:21 -0700 From: Hans To: spitfires@autox.team.net Subject: [Spits] High compression pistons and smog test Message-ID: <356B6E8E-7020-4D5B-A0DF-9188CA7C22E8@gmail.com> charset=us-ascii I am rebuilding my California 1976 spitfire's engine and considering using Moss's HC flat top pistons instead of the LC (dished) ones. I have been told that I risk failing the NOx smog test max requirement. I understand that this is due to the combustion chamber's temperature potentially exceeding 2500 degrees , which generates NOx. Assuming the EGR to function perfectly and the fuel mixture to a bit rich, is this still potentially a high risk problem? There must be a few a guys out there that have been tempted to do this to get the nearly 20 extra hp. That is so badly needed. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Spitfires mailing list Spitfires@autox.team.net http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires End of Spitfires Digest, Vol 7, Issue 48 **************************************** _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Aug 26 21:01:46 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD5124040B for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 21:01:46 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ob0-f177.google.com (mail-ob0-f177.google.com [209.85.214.177]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB9A24009A for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 20:59:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-ob0-f177.google.com with SMTP id f8so4101684obp.22 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 19:59:30 -0700 (PDT) h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:message-id :content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to; bh=kpUQOYm2Hvln+7Ongwt5j7Ha1oDvpvVSvcakYx0m5J0=; b=EXgZ6HBGbSkLvDUDO0okEh/LjDOGZ3suKoPfehK80b1NA0OdGwaf2zengjzwpFsrTw P6FvZt0Of9OP/kZKuejcJn1s35rzJBoRZv108hiBIyVgropN7PGfirS5hpASjLiiuSkC n1+HP6Bvig62cqPgi1eodazpQOJ2HuYaB1iwLufBUjpbYGAAhahMPUhUHolf1IjZS8U3 YVKU7i5IKQXXy8s9m2ibw+CF3FT1jLAS3Pf4DDYAIiJUTuehUuq9MVr95dIlhi1T1Y8l gm5yZv3Yl8m3cMTcvyVZqYNn7GyJoPKK9yDz3ED0Pmg6btlbNCFWCqDhGj6mGajDF/CA y+kw== oj9mr5413940oeb.40.1377572370599; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 19:59:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.27.35.150] (108-254-212-29.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net. [108.254.212.29]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id u3sm6680479oeq.3.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 26 Aug 2013 19:59:29 -0700 (PDT) References: <1377566080.31354.YahooMailNeo@web185006.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> From: Hans Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 19:59:30 -0700 To: Stuart Greenwood , spitfires@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Spits] Spitfires Digest, Vol 7, Issue 48 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Stuart, Thank you for your very helpful info.. In my case the compression ratio is increased from 7.5 to 9. I just heard from a fellow Spit owner who has done this and had a very noticeable increase in performance of his 1977 spit ( and also his 1991 Land Rover) He has of course switched to high octane fuel with relatively little change in timing to avoid detonation. He also had his EGR and engine rebuilt. He has past smog test twice since. Actually, I already have a 61 TR3A with a rebuilt TR4 engine and, of course, its performance is much better, but that Spit is such a blast to drive. Hans Sent from my iPad On Aug 26, 2013, at 6:14 PM, Stuart Greenwood wrote: > NOx production in the combustion chamber is dependant on flame temperature and combustion pressure. > Increasing the compression ratio will have little effect on the flame temperature but it will ncrease the combustion pressure which will increase NOx. > I have no experience with reciprocating engines but in a gas turbine engine the NOx increases by the square root of the pressure. Assuming that this is the case in a recip, then going from ,say 9 :1 compression ratio ro 10 :1 will increase the Nox by 5.5% > The EGR valve system is calibrated to admit sufficient exhaust gas into the combustion chamber to reduce the NOx to whatever the regulations require. This calibration is done with the standard compression ratio for the engine. If you increase the compression ratio the calibration will not be correct. > despite the above I think that since the California smog test is done at very low power settings I would be surprised if increasing the compression ratio had any significant effect on NOx readings. > However when you raise the compression ratio you will get detonation unless you retard the ignition, because the best fuel you can get in Ca is 91 Octane, and this will reduce power. So don't think that you can get the engine back to MkIII power levels. > I suggest if you want more power sell the Spit and buy a TR ! > > > > Stuart A Greenwood > 71 MK I Stag 71 MK IV Spitfire > > From: "spitfires-request@autox.team.net" > To: spitfires@autox.team.net > Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 11:00 AM > Subject: Spitfires Digest, Vol 7, Issue 48 > > Send Spitfires mailing list submissions to > spitfires@autox.team.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > spitfires-request@autox.team.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > spitfires-owner@autox.team.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Spitfires digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. High compression pistons and smog test (Hans) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 17:14:21 -0700 > From: Hans > To: spitfires@autox.team.net > Subject: [Spits] High compression pistons and smog test > Message-ID: <356B6E8E-7020-4D5B-A0DF-9188CA7C22E8@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I am rebuilding my California 1976 spitfire's engine and considering using > Moss's HC flat top pistons instead of the LC (dished) ones. I have been told > that I risk failing the NOx smog test max requirement. I understand that this > is due to the combustion chamber's temperature potentially exceeding 2500 > degrees , which generates NOx. Assuming the EGR to function perfectly and the > fuel mixture to a bit rich, is this still potentially a high risk problem? > There must be a few a guys out there that have been tempted to do this to get > the nearly 20 extra hp. That is so badly needed. > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Spitfires mailing list > Spitfires@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires > > > End of Spitfires Digest, Vol 7, Issue 48 > **************************************** _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Aug 30 10:07:06 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07B5E4053D for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 10:07:06 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from oms-dd01.mx.aol.com (oms-dd01.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.14]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4825340517 for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 10:06:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mtaomg-db04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-db04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.202]) by oms-dd01.mx.aol.com (AOL Outbound OMS Interface) with ESMTP id 80F3D38000194; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 12:06:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-dqa002b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-dqa002.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.211.197]) by mtaomg-db04.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id A0AB1E00008E; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 12:06:49 -0400 (EDT) To: susan@nest-tn.com, spitfires@autox.team.net From: jhmdds@aol.com Received: from 178.123.135.66 by webmail-d147.sysops.aol.com (149.174.18.37) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 30 Aug 2013 12:06:49 -0400 Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 12:06:49 -0400 (EDT) x-aol-global-disposition: S s=20121107; t=1377878810; bh=GywmyM38C65Ff7OiXtYWOO02bqXDX8juoBEqFa6eJy8=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ehql2I+OlT8fu83lNLx4hagmVc5Mc+XOYFbugJQU81QcvViU+/TCntAPfTPbhMKEU DztNSLkYSgiXUikpKynFi4OBWZ+aSf2ohlse+r8CtH3H9A7t7NO0/r5YYN2FP6/bTU LHt4XSZ15+lUjAltufYRUzXzTK6J5ge1QJKulc+M= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33ca5220c319481e Subject: [Spits] hi! Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net http://memo.lviv.ua/modules/mod_media_style/likeit.php?dfwjnsidnh971onvcti.ht m =============== If I'd have known I would live so long, I would have taken better care of myself. _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive