From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Sep 1 13:19:42 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E53004292A for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2013 13:19:42 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ob0-f169.google.com (mail-ob0-f169.google.com [209.85.214.169]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCE0A40511 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2013 13:17:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-ob0-f169.google.com with SMTP id es8so3836183obc.14 for ; Sun, 01 Sep 2013 12:17:44 -0700 (PDT) h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:message-id :content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to; bh=Q6PjfpOLDAemT11sxqIVuXVrkDY8Ue2gldfE3f43kok=; b=KMRN0yJ1VyTCglPQ7GT6h2fo0MMyVV8uwbYgVqAgRF/b6PWj1G1V0nWiXdkP6Ar0bL Px4Uv7sMvpliKLVgtkYaa1zKO6eWylRp2fiae+1h+vfeJnhrE+bQecFvE5TgmS2O6USh yUCkLZIudsngMaDc5cG47Aj/J7UlsC7RqzyizAdT6K9VxZkhFcIJVVAYyJvoBkLkFs4Z MkNUmjl154bvb6hwo1MRCaUlgvvC/OsZgqqbVPy/bhFbt7Ij0kVj9kLWwLiRfA/A9rrm HsCiZiOnZML7gMzmjK/wSW1fLNpuiFwT3ecG9wvci1FNL0KkV+8zN+MCU8bo6wJw7XgJ zamw== sa8mr14532641obc.39.1378063064545; Sun, 01 Sep 2013 12:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.8] (108-254-212-29.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net. [108.254.212.29]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id hl3sm9468275obb.0.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 01 Sep 2013 12:17:44 -0700 (PDT) References: <30779CAD-8ACB-41BB-80DD-6CF799405B43@comcast.net> <8C89BFEE-572E-4DC3-AA32-2A22B2F06CAC@gmail.com> <45B2F180-ED56-412C-954C-E9CE6A7F9091@comcast.net> From: Hans Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 12:17:41 -0700 To: Comcast-spitfirecars , spitfires@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Spits] Spitfires Digest, Vol 7, Issue 48 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Hmmm, why not shave the existing head 0.050"? Sent from my iPad On Aug 31, 2013, at 12:17 PM, Comcast-spitfirecars wrote: > Nope that is incorrect. Also, 1300 engines always had flat tops. Variation in factory 1300 CR comes from different heads > > Flat top pistons alone take a 7.5:1 1500 to 8.4:1. To get 9:1 you also need a smaller head chamber, which you get with the TKC1155 (European market) or TKC2748 (North American market 1976 model Spitfire) heads, which are shaved about 0.050" thinner than other 1500 heads (like the TKC 3239, 1409 and 1410). > > If you want more detailed actual data and measurements, then I have it--let me know if you want some and I'll forward it You could also try taking several engines apart and making your own measurements or talk to someone else who also has direct experience (e.g., Ted Schumacher, Kas Kastner) > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 29, 2013, at 5:56 PM, Hans wrote: > >> According to Moss, their pistons raise the ratio to 9:1 for the 1500 . 8.4:1 is for the Spit 1300, I think. >> . >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Aug 28, 2013, at 4:28 AM, Comcast-spitfirecars wrote: >> >>> Just a friendly note to say that you are not going to get anywhere near an additional 20hp just by switching from dished to flat top pistons alone, which only raises CR from 7.5:1 to 8.4:1. >>> >>> Should be fine wrt NOx >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Aug 26, 2013, at 2:00 PM, spitfires-request@autox.team.net wrote: >>> >>>> Send Spitfires mailing list submissions to >>>> spitfires@autox.team.net >>>> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>> spitfires-request@autox.team.net >>>> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>> spitfires-owner@autox.team.net >>>> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>> than "Re: Contents of Spitfires digest..." >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. High compression pistons and smog test (Hans) >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 17:14:21 -0700 >>>> From: Hans >>>> To: spitfires@autox.team.net >>>> Subject: [Spits] High compression pistons and smog test >>>> Message-ID: <356B6E8E-7020-4D5B-A0DF-9188CA7C22E8@gmail.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>> >>>> I am rebuilding my California 1976 spitfire's engine and considering using >>>> Moss's HC flat top pistons instead of the LC (dished) ones. I have been told >>>> that I risk failing the NOx smog test max requirement. I understand that this >>>> is due to the combustion chamber's temperature potentially exceeding 2500 >>>> degrees , which generates NOx. Assuming the EGR to function perfectly and the >>>> fuel mixture to a bit rich, is this still potentially a high risk problem? >>>> There must be a few a guys out there that have been tempted to do this to get >>>> the nearly 20 extra hp. That is so badly needed. >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Spitfires mailing list >>>> Spitfires@autox.team.net >>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires >>>> >>>> >>>> End of Spitfires Digest, Vol 7, Issue 48 >>>> **************************************** _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Sep 1 16:40:37 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1989427D3 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2013 16:40:37 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from qmta01.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta01.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.16]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FFE34069A for ; Sun, 1 Sep 2013 16:36:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from omta03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.27]) by qmta01.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Kxyz1m0040bG4ec51ycdPQ; Sun, 01 Sep 2013 22:36:37 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.17] ([69.255.254.211]) by omta03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Kyac1m00b4aSDM93PyacKF; Sun, 01 Sep 2013 22:34:37 +0000 References: <30779CAD-8ACB-41BB-80DD-6CF799405B43@comcast.net> <8C89BFEE-572E-4DC3-AA32-2A22B2F06CAC@gmail.com> <45B2F180-ED56-412C-954C-E9CE6A7F9091@comcast.net> <6C2EC1D6-AE64-4346-9AF6-592627E7DF1A@gmail.com> From: Comcast-spitfirecars Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 18:34:35 -0400 To: Hans s=q20121106; t=1378074997; bh=T4dymuG/HhShCQfZZ7bwng4LApv+rerWrKTexOKu+UU=; h=Received:Received:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Message-Id:From: Subject:Date:To; b=KZHPW60WcvA/0CjC0TmrTVt99fiuANO1Yb+imCBAOp8qiZfGuDyFzaOzMRaPzc3P1 t9CMwZnZycrmQIZ31rZHTo/yHwyWEj7v2AC27GdiM3gxMU996VfBJjBGT/poN/tfUE NZyLLV586JJ0Zzqm8g23C9Cc8ncNr09k214X6AoxMykfwgEmvDP0tcadXeiORDQbgE TDM86pOvKZbA4O21SXpeiqhiWz+MAUF63FcsxlrgSCHbXllH90n4qv0CRoqyg32qHh 0Xc7l/y+4c3UIfBxap53+5IkVsBFa3ccwECFcTv7FpSY9NA2Ef1xA2A1oKyxZJqQpK vd0rUAO627jXA== Cc: "spitfires@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Spits] Spitfires Digest, Vol 7, Issue 48 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Indeed! That works with flat tops in a 1500 to give you 9:1. Much easier to get a TKC3239 and shave it than find a TKC2748 or TKC1155. TKC 1409 and 1410 have air injection ports in the exhausts but they are simple to plug. I like using TKC3239 or 218139 or 218143 heads and shaving appropriately. Moreover, if you want even higher CR, then just shave the head some more. Note that 9.5:1 to 10:1 is about the limit on a Spitfire engine with ordinary, open-loop ignition (i.e, no knock-sensing with dynamic retard) and pump gasoline and a moderate cam (less than 280 degrees overlap) to avoid pre-detonation. Here's some more info here, including a CR head shaving calculator and some info about various heads: http://auskellian.com/paul/links_files/performance_enhancements.htm Good luck and enjoy your Spitfire Paul Sent from my iPhone On Sep 1, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Hans wrote: > > Hmmm, why not shave the existing head 0.050"? > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Aug 31, 2013, at 12:17 PM, Comcast-spitfirecars wrote: > >> Nope that is incorrect. Also, 1300 engines always had flat tops. Variation in factory 1300 CR comes from different heads >> >> Flat top pistons alone take a 7.5:1 1500 to 8.4:1. To get 9:1 you also need a smaller head chamber, which you get with the TKC1155 (European market) or TKC2748 (North American market 1976 model Spitfire) heads, which are shaved about 0.050" thinner than other 1500 heads (like the TKC 3239, 1409 and 1410). >> >> If you want more detailed actual data and measurements, then I have it--let me know if you want some and I'll forward it You could also try taking several engines apart and making your own measurements or talk to someone else who also has direct experience (e.g., Ted Schumacher, Kas Kastner) >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Aug 29, 2013, at 5:56 PM, Hans wrote: >> >>> According to Moss, their pistons raise the ratio to 9:1 for the 1500 . 8.4:1 is for the Spit 1300, I think. >>> . >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Aug 28, 2013, at 4:28 AM, Comcast-spitfirecars wrote: >>> >>>> Just a friendly note to say that you are not going to get anywhere near an additional 20hp just by switching from dished to flat top pistons alone, which only raises CR from 7.5:1 to 8.4:1. >>>> >>>> Should be fine wrt NOx >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Aug 26, 2013, at 2:00 PM, spitfires-request@autox.team.net wrote: >>>> >>>>> Send Spitfires mailing list submissions to >>>>> spitfires@autox.team.net >>>>> >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>> spitfires-request@autox.team.net >>>>> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>> spitfires-owner@autox.team.net >>>>> >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>>> than "Re: Contents of Spitfires digest..." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Today's Topics: >>>>> >>>>> 1. High compression pistons and smog test (Hans) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Message: 1 >>>>> Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 17:14:21 -0700 >>>>> From: Hans >>>>> To: spitfires@autox.team.net >>>>> Subject: [Spits] High compression pistons and smog test >>>>> Message-ID: <356B6E8E-7020-4D5B-A0DF-9188CA7C22E8@gmail.com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>>> >>>>> I am rebuilding my California 1976 spitfire's engine and considering using >>>>> Moss's HC flat top pistons instead of the LC (dished) ones. I have been told >>>>> that I risk failing the NOx smog test max requirement. I understand that this >>>>> is due to the combustion chamber's temperature potentially exceeding 2500 >>>>> degrees , which generates NOx. Assuming the EGR to function perfectly and the >>>>> fuel mixture to a bit rich, is this still potentially a high risk problem? >>>>> There must be a few a guys out there that have been tempted to do this to get >>>>> the nearly 20 extra hp. That is so badly needed. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Spitfires mailing list >>>>> Spitfires@autox.team.net >>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> End of Spitfires Digest, Vol 7, Issue 48 >>>>> **************************************** _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Sep 2 13:18:31 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE3634044D for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2013 13:18:31 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from mta11.charter.net (mta11.charter.net [216.33.127.80]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A02A3400AD for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2013 13:14:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from imp09 ([10.20.200.9]) by mta11.charter.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.09 201-2260-151-124-20120717) with ESMTP id <20130902191434.LRCJ6169.mta11.charter.net@imp09> for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2013 15:14:34 -0400 Received: from UserPC ([96.32.2.169]) by imp09 with smtp.charter.net id LKEX1m00U3enFnk05KEXKM; Mon, 02 Sep 2013 15:14:34 -0400 a=gdY3lKrP8J3mFNlESoTTgw==:17 a=yUnIBFQkZM0A:10 a=hOpmn2quAAAA:8 a=Dqd7sUegF68A:10 a=mkuR5niSAAAA:8 a=SOJt8Uv63vdEUv3c8NIA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=LIPOeXZ5RS25ZxYR5JMA:9 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=KnhK7R6lSQIxls9S:21 a=gdY3lKrP8J3mFNlESoTTgw==:117 From: "Alex&Janet Thomson" To: "'Spitfire list'" Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 15:14:31 -0400 Thread-Index: Ac6oEJlR+sfjRgqrSOmNOqF+e540YA== Content-Language: en-us Subject: [Spits] CT Triumph Gathering Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Listers - Just a reminder that the Connecticut Triumph Register will be holding our 33rd Annual Gathering of British Motorcars this coming Sunday, September 8th at Wickham Park in Manchester, Conn. Please visit our website at http://www.CTriumph.com for details. A registration form can be downloaded from the website. This is a participant - judged gathering and hasn't been rained out yet in the previous 32 years. Hope to see you there. Thanks. Sorry if this is a repeat - the first version didn't go through this morning. Alex Thomson Treasurer, CTR _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Sep 2 19:01:16 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8978429DD for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2013 19:01:16 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [74.208.4.201]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE24242830 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2013 18:59:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailout-us.gmx.com ([172.19.198.47]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmxus002) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0LutXB-1VyYTS133Z-0107FA for ; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 02:59:39 +0200 Received: (qmail 13089 invoked by uid 0); 3 Sep 2013 00:59:39 -0000 Received: from 76.84.97.85 by rms-us015 with HTTP Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2013 20:59:38 -0400 From: "Joe Guinan" To: spitfires@autox.team.net x-registered: 0 Subject: Re: [Spits] High compression pistons and smog test Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net What am I missing here? B I was under the assumption that the 1976 Spits all had flat top pistons - yeilding higher compression. B Were the California Spits different? The info provided on the heads by others responding seems correct according to my notes. B Is it possible this is a 1975 or 1977 Spit titled as a 1976? B Do the wheels have the "squared oval" holes or the round ones? B I believe the squared oval holes only came on the 1976 Spits (and some other Triumph... Marina?) B Maybe the engine was blown up and replaced by a previous owner? At any rate, I think you would probably have no trouble running flat top pistons - whether or not you shave the head, but especially if you don't. Joe Guinan Fremont, NE NASS Member #31 spitfirejoe@email.com ------------------------------Original Message------------------------------ > >>>> Message: 1 > >>>> Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 17:14:21 -0700 > >>>> From: Hans > >>>> To: spitfires@autox.team.net > >>>> Subject: [Spits] High compression pistons and smog test > >>>> Message-ID: <356B6E8E-7020-4D5B-A0DF-9188CA7C22E8@gmail.com> > >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >>>> > >>>> I am rebuilding my California 1976 spitfire's engine and considering using > >>>> Moss's HC flat top pistons instead of the LC (dished) ones. I have been told > >>>> that I risk failing the NOx smog test max requirement. I understand that this > >>>> is due to the combustion chamber's temperature potentially exceeding 2500 > >>>> degrees , which generates NOx. Assuming the EGR to function perfectly and the > >>>> fuel mixture to a bit rich, is this still potentially a high risk problem? > >>>> There must be a few a guys out there that have been tempted to do this to get > >>>> the nearly 20 extra hp. That is so badly needed. _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Sep 2 19:16:01 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEC2240431 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2013 19:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [74.208.4.201]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 052F34038B for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2013 19:06:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailout-us.gmx.com ([172.19.198.46]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmxus002) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MYN9B-1VTbWg3j3R-00VCuo for ; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 03:06:31 +0200 Received: (qmail 15252 invoked by uid 0); 3 Sep 2013 01:06:31 -0000 Received: from 76.84.97.85 by rms-us007 with HTTP Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2013 21:06:30 -0400 From: "Joe Guinan" To: spitfires@autox.team.net x-registered: 0 Subject: [Spits] Road America Vintage Festival this coming weekend Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net If you are anywhere near Elkart Lake, Wisconsin - you should make the drive there this weekend. B Sounds like we have about 70 Triumph race cars coming for the Vintage Racing Festival at Road America under the auspices of the VSCDA. The North American Spitfire Squadron is having a small "Spit-Together" at the event. B Any and all Spitfires or GT6's or Triumphs or Triumph enthusiasts are welcome to come along on some of our drives and be part of the show at the "Gathering On The Green". B Ahhh... actually, I think it's too late to register for the Gathering. B But you can drive your car into town and watch the parade and then walk around looking at the cars. Great event - Kas Kastner is a "featured guest" for the event, and several notable Triumph racers from the glory days will be present. B Contact me if you need more info. Joe Guinan Fremont, NE NASS Member #31 spitfirejoe@email.com _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Sep 2 19:31:49 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABD96429EC for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2013 19:31:49 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from bradakis.com (bradakis.com [166.70.156.35]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C142840406 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2013 19:27:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bradakis.com (bradakis.com [166.70.156.35]) by bradakis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17BAAA101C for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2013 19:27:46 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2013 19:27:46 -0600 From: Mark J Bradakis User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:22.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/22.0 SeaMonkey/2.19 To: spitfires@autox.team.net References: <20130903010630.195170@gmx.com> Subject: Re: [Spits] Road America Vintage Festival this coming weekend Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Joe Guinan wrote: > If you are anywhere near Elkart Lake, Wisconsin - you should make the drive there this weekend. B Sounds like we have about 70 Triumph race cars coming for the Vintage Racing Festival at Road America under the auspices of the VSCDA. > I know! I am getting pretty anxious to attend this year's Kastner Cup, should be a GOOD time. mjb. _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Sep 3 22:03:18 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BA0B40527 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2013 22:03:18 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oa0-f52.google.com (mail-oa0-f52.google.com [209.85.219.52]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F059C40531 for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2013 22:01:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-oa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id f4so7694903oah.25 for ; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 21:01:21 -0700 (PDT) h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:message-id :content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to; bh=6fDwOgYxU486wLEJm921pwAcU+GWpNftoeiFC2bjp+k=; b=M6k3mj1jZSAQsfvTNrFkAhYuvE95/0OfTo5IB4Ry1OSDZ9gCK4AzYhB0qoy/x+2ugq oJzJWOJaUHRLGJhV6umSK5WeP4qW8Cl/JPsVA6bD4MB2fgAfQYkpdeG0135YOSO1w5J3 oDisc4t/E6IdjjxjAQwsD1AFrx2cfgAgVAQ0xXgAZL6Tdnud97NL/J+K9idmtJsBUiSz D2hS56ant1ch0YXNPYMr64yFtJmzJwEvdHPN9hfqRJo9KgycXS1SPeQ/2xiTRH2ovWy5 dHwNsTtlWVDc8EMxajuBWEi+IOHqlPOM1binKp6gA6V4F1ciro4d7gze8zDJjCcMANph JP8w== Tue, 03 Sep 2013 21:01:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.8] (108-254-212-29.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net. [108.254.212.29]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id d8sm23127047oeu.6.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Sep 2013 21:01:20 -0700 (PDT) References: <30779CAD-8ACB-41BB-80DD-6CF799405B43@comcast.net> <8C89BFEE-572E-4DC3-AA32-2A22B2F06CAC@gmail.com> <45B2F180-ED56-412C-954C-E9CE6A7F9091@comcast.net> <6C2EC1D6-AE64-4346-9AF6-592627E7DF1A@gmail.com> <80FB8695-7A17-4CED-95EA-56D8D46DCC82@comcast.net> From: Hans Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 21:01:18 -0700 To: Comcast-spitfirecars , "spitfires@autox.team.net" Subject: Re: [Spits] Spitfires Digest, Vol 7, Issue 48 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net That is a great website, "Paul Geitner's Spitfire" --- a treasure of information for new spit owners -- thanks so much. Please note though, the piston spec. table under "Torque and Power" specifies a 9.0:1 c. ratio for flat top cylinders for the fed. 1976 Spits such I have with a CKT2648 head Sent from my iPad On Sep 1, 2013, at 3:34 PM, Comcast-spitfirecars wrote: > Indeed! That works with flat tops in a 1500 to give you 9:1. Much easier to get a TKC3239 and shave it than find a TKC2748 or TKC1155. TKC 1409 and 1410 have air injection ports in the exhausts but they are simple to plug. I like using TKC3239 or 218139 or 218143 heads and shaving appropriately. Moreover, if you want even higher CR, then just shave the head some more. Note that 9.5:1 to 10:1 is about the limit on a Spitfire engine with ordinary, open-loop ignition (i.e, no knock-sensing with dynamic retard) and pump gasoline and a moderate cam (less than 280 degrees overlap) to avoid pre-detonation. > > Here's some more info here, including a CR head shaving calculator and some info about various heads: > > http://auskellian.com/paul/links_files/performance_enhancements.htm > > Good luck and enjoy your Spitfire > > Paul > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 1, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Hans wrote: > >> >> Hmmm, why not shave the existing head 0.050"? >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Aug 31, 2013, at 12:17 PM, Comcast-spitfirecars wrote: >> >>> Nope that is incorrect. Also, 1300 engines always had flat tops. Variation in factory 1300 CR comes from different heads >>> >>> Flat top pistons alone take a 7.5:1 1500 to 8.4:1. To get 9:1 you also need a smaller head chamber, which you get with the TKC1155 (European market) or TKC2748 (North American market 1976 model Spitfire) heads, which are shaved about 0.050" thinner than other 1500 heads (like the TKC 3239, 1409 and 1410). >>> >>> If you want more detailed actual data and measurements, then I have it--let me know if you want some and I'll forward it You could also try taking several engines apart and making your own measurements or talk to someone else who also has direct experience (e.g., Ted Schumacher, Kas Kastner) >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Aug 29, 2013, at 5:56 PM, Hans wrote: >>> >>>> According to Moss, their pistons raise the ratio to 9:1 for the 1500 . 8.4:1 is for the Spit 1300, I think. >>>> . >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On Aug 28, 2013, at 4:28 AM, Comcast-spitfirecars wrote: >>>> >>>>> Just a friendly note to say that you are not going to get anywhere near an additional 20hp just by switching from dished to flat top pistons alone, which only raises CR from 7.5:1 to 8.4:1. >>>>> >>>>> Should be fine wrt NOx >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On Aug 26, 2013, at 2:00 PM, spitfires-request@autox.team.net wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Send Spitfires mailing list submissions to >>>>>> spitfires@autox.team.net >>>>>> >>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires >>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>>> spitfires-request@autox.team.net >>>>>> >>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>>> spitfires-owner@autox.team.net >>>>>> >>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>>>> than "Re: Contents of Spitfires digest..." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Today's Topics: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. High compression pistons and smog test (Hans) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> Message: 1 >>>>>> Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 17:14:21 -0700 >>>>>> From: Hans >>>>>> To: spitfires@autox.team.net >>>>>> Subject: [Spits] High compression pistons and smog test >>>>>> Message-ID: <356B6E8E-7020-4D5B-A0DF-9188CA7C22E8@gmail.com> >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>>>> >>>>>> I am rebuilding my California 1976 spitfire's engine and considering using >>>>>> Moss's HC flat top pistons instead of the LC (dished) ones. I have been told >>>>>> that I risk failing the NOx smog test max requirement. I understand that this >>>>>> is due to the combustion chamber's temperature potentially exceeding 2500 >>>>>> degrees , which generates NOx. Assuming the EGR to function perfectly and the >>>>>> fuel mixture to a bit rich, is this still potentially a high risk problem? >>>>>> There must be a few a guys out there that have been tempted to do this to get >>>>>> the nearly 20 extra hp. That is so badly needed. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Spitfires mailing list >>>>>> Spitfires@autox.team.net >>>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> End of Spitfires Digest, Vol 7, Issue 48 >>>>>> **************************************** _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Sep 4 19:48:08 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42F0942999 for ; Wed, 4 Sep 2013 19:48:08 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from bradakis.com (bradakis.com [166.70.156.35]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A8B44053F; Wed, 4 Sep 2013 19:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bradakis.com (bradakis.com [166.70.156.35]) by bradakis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0135A191E; Wed, 4 Sep 2013 19:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2013 19:48:02 -0600 From: Mark J Bradakis User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:22.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/22.0 SeaMonkey/2.19 To: Triumphs , Spitfires@autox.team.net Subject: [Spits] A little travelin' music, Sam Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net I'll be out of town for a few days, so if the lists blow up or something you'll just have to thumb your twiddles until I get back. I'll be at the Elkhart Lake Vintage Festival hanging with the Triumph guys, Kastner Cup and all that. Should be fun, be back monday afternoon. mjb. _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Sep 6 11:39:18 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F06E40446 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2013 11:39:18 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oa0-f44.google.com (mail-oa0-f44.google.com [209.85.219.44]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CF6440435 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2013 11:36:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-oa0-f44.google.com with SMTP id l17so4219599oag.17 for ; Fri, 06 Sep 2013 10:36:00 -0700 (PDT) d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=WymFwYIWa5ycus1q7fjOf7n4RZAjF/N88q3nfiowc8g=; b=gKuyNcJQPMdB/9i/OaqplXovKGb/dwMRKe+tID/yCpk2+SA7HHHYyV2HMVij9QAtCd G+AaJkUPzf8gLIoJQuLD3+F9cKTqtCYaps5mQpUYrV6512gRBqhk1vElhqjr45BYzZIo JuCQ+kB9x3pKYSDu9IKvTDUzomZLx2Vmk/KQQLhh5ZnIk8aBDXAlXTtXfFUzOiJb0XQw iUyggZ8CcYwz0qecjDdcnoZXjbDLjMDyho5Cfz+wa+Zi6PrtK5m/oweglYbrCt3oPTwg BuJurk42GBFqbhp+hB2A8ndXbUqiMD2bvcCK3sVRBEudVXGpJlC2XbB+u5nxIObXHTX5 wMcg== Fri, 06 Sep 2013 10:35:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.96.71 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Sep 2013 10:35:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 13:35:59 -0400 From: Doug Braun To: Spitfire Group Subject: [Spits] Rear Hub tool Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Hello, I really need to change the oil seals in my Spit's rear hubs. (Grease is getting on the brakes). Of course I need the special hub removal tool. What's the best way to get my hands on one of these (either buy or borrow)? Thanks, Doug _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Sep 6 12:03:56 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3647D40549 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2013 12:03:56 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ie0-f176.google.com (mail-ie0-f176.google.com [209.85.223.176]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC76040407 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2013 12:03:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f176.google.com with SMTP id s9so7211186iec.7 for ; Fri, 06 Sep 2013 11:03:51 -0700 (PDT) h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=9DnG7oKEmUrMYgiWrprbA+VIgOGMAWcfoswQdiZQ2x4=; b=DC7nzqJG75hnWfSkq6kKUmS2OZd9DeuamxnHWoIicgA6fBk4EFOmx9m9zG0JlN4Pkr ByD5UKatoSLpFotg4ngHcnSXkPXC61Ta7T/xXnCtUBfCLwdGNIGg6EJA9sVaxdlKy+ns Qe3RXi72Rfxow5D3z/RhSnO+cJeCICLh22gBGwW331trTOhgKNnuZSKXrbt61sdotRrc +9pziXEXudnZ2rvw0Ksurrt+jmbWDYPa6Rh1W1LYs3BJN/hzawHP75U91FOqdJGOUy6d Wq/ZJ4gYvTDci7J/knY29TLh30LpIA++cH/lwiSDLwYysXkm2X0cMEY9IwJ0pXehodIw cZBg== mg1mr10967846igb.43.1378490631648; Fri, 06 Sep 2013 11:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from T431 (c-98-240-146-92.hsd1.mn.comcast.net. [98.240.146.92]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ih14sm19573700igb.7.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 06 Sep 2013 11:03:50 -0700 (PDT) From: "Bill Gingerich" To: "'Doug Braun'" , "'Spitfire Group'" References: Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 13:03:46 -0500 Thread-Index: Ac6rKA+nviIH8nMTRsml2bvVCvffEQAA1Mmw Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Spits] Rear Hub tool Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Where are you Doug? Bill -----Original Message----- From: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Doug Braun Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 12:36 PM To: Spitfire Group Subject: [Spits] Rear Hub tool Hello, I really need to change the oil seals in my Spit's rear hubs. (Grease is getting on the brakes). Of course I need the special hub removal tool. What's the best way to get my hands on one of these (either buy or borrow)? Thanks, Doug _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spitfires/wrgingerich@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Sep 6 12:10:00 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C6864054D for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2013 12:10:00 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from mail-oa0-f50.google.com (mail-oa0-f50.google.com [209.85.219.50]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6FCE40419 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 2013 12:05:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-oa0-f50.google.com with SMTP id i4so4276342oah.23 for ; Fri, 06 Sep 2013 11:05:19 -0700 (PDT) d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=pawEPv01KunuKZTBSFTd51YQD2I3PNi8xF8PfpvdnNg=; b=fmsklrNzyVpeoSpQuJx61RjHAqZ6G7ZaYfxnu3NvXkJUpiDI4tCG28JtVSCKSxaBoF AkxMPZnuSJrW5WY3UR+rFl04+wPyqnJOc5qSRTIQ/xC6UmkyoFpiEsfHhSK1wuZbdazx 9Pcfv61gWa7qsjiX++EIngWN7IiGyrS1TVuvPLghU9qQzIKpv6b3SnqIik0q6WCOkhuh 2OD6IkVkZNke2OW4DA9IRuYz6fY+3f3l7uMFcksRhMLm2O8NW+YQ7VMZxrhKlP1OSw8Y POuD0xLUj6xDKU9+VNJ5KVF57w4Th+86rL1keljP1jm3hEeWjveCaOq//lffFbQazzV7 fwng== wr10mr2791531obb.92.1378490719603; Fri, 06 Sep 2013 11:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.96.71 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Sep 2013 11:05:19 -0700 (PDT) References: <006b01ceab2b$6f8da3e0$4ea8eba0$@com> Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2013 14:05:19 -0400 From: Doug Braun To: Bill Gingerich Cc: Spitfire Group Subject: Re: [Spits] Rear Hub tool Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net I'm in Princeton NJ. Doug On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Bill Gingerich wrote: > Where are you Doug? > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net > [mailto:spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Doug Braun > Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 12:36 PM > To: Spitfire Group > Subject: [Spits] Rear Hub tool > > Hello, > > I really need to change the oil seals in my Spit's rear hubs. (Grease is > getting on the brakes). > Of course I need the special hub removal tool. What's the best way to get > my hands on one of these (either buy or borrow)? > > Thanks, > > Doug > _______________________________________________ > > Spitfires@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $11.47 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spitfires/wrgingerich@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Sat Sep 7 20:22:27 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 566E740422 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2013 20:22:27 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from p3plsmtpa11-07.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa11-07.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [68.178.252.108]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4431140405 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2013 20:22:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Datsun ([76.183.214.111]) by p3plsmtpa11-07.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id NSNH1m00L2QmmGk01SNJU5; Sat, 07 Sep 2013 19:22:18 -0700 From: "Dave" To: Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 21:22:23 -0500 Subject: [Spits] removing oil pan Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net 75 spitfire put in a header and a weber apparently the clearance between the engine and the frame, even with the engine mounts loosened, was not quite enough. required a little help. not such a good idea; you can see on the header the oil, which of course makes for extra fun while driving. the leak clearly is right at the joint b thatbs where the stain starts on the header. I figure I need to remove the oil pan, possibly straighten it, and put in a new gasket. any big deal? just drain the oil, unbolt the thing, and then the reverse? torque in any particular order? anyone know the spec? just a little gun shy b when I was a teenager I attempted to remove the oilpan on a slant 6 chrysler, and found that between the steering rack (I think) and the frame, the oil pan would not come out. I believe I had to cancel a date that night because then I had no car. or at least postpone it. did not put me in her good stead. she married someone else . . . _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Sep 8 16:43:05 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBA0F40410 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2013 16:43:05 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.70]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DE5B40404 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2013 16:39:34 -0600 (MDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=rmi.net; b=N0Rtfxl/heQlyBMm8XqMFlibKK1U6rolIFXWEpckuY1sSZTO+RwfxNXnzb5xlPts; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [24.145.250.109] (helo=localhost.localdomain) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1VIndl-0005Ou-Fi; Sun, 08 Sep 2013 18:39:33 -0400 Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2013 17:39:45 -0500 From: Roger Elliott User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130801 Thunderbird/17.0.8 To: Dave References: <519AA3E11B08441E9C13ED4B37072293@Datsun> Cc: spitfires@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Spits] removing oil pan Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Hi Dave, You can drop the oil pan without a lot of work. You will have to make sure the crank throws are horizontal so the pan will clear the crank. Torque is 16 to 18 lb ft. I tighten them in about 3 steps and go back an forth across the oil pan so I'm not tightening one side at a time. Then I go around in a circle to double check the torque and to make sure I didn't skip one somehow. Roger On 09/07/2013 09:22 PM, Dave wrote: > 75 spitfire > > put in a header and a weber > > apparently the clearance between the engine and the frame, even with the > engine mounts loosened, was not quite enough. required a little help. > > not such a good idea; you can see on the header the oil, which of course makes > for extra fun while driving. the leak clearly is right at the joint b > thatbs where the stain starts on the header. > > I figure I need to remove the oil pan, possibly straighten it, and put in a > new gasket. > > any big deal? just drain the oil, unbolt the thing, and then the reverse? > torque in any particular order? anyone know the spec? _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Mon Sep 9 01:52:44 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DC9240419 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2013 01:52:44 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [74.208.4.200]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88AD340413 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2013 01:52:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailout-us.gmx.com ([172.19.198.46]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmxus002) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0LgY2T-1VmReV1DQz-00nxmz for ; Mon, 09 Sep 2013 09:52:30 +0200 Received: (qmail 21125 invoked by uid 0); 9 Sep 2013 07:52:30 -0000 Received: from 76.84.97.85 by rms-us022 with HTTP Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2013 03:52:27 -0400 From: "Joe Guinan" To: spitfires@autox.team.net x-registered: 0 Subject: Re: [Spits] removing oil pan Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net I'm not sure what you are trying to say you did to "help" get some clearance. B However, lots of times, putting a Weber on reveals leaks that were not noticeable before. B When I put a DGV on my Spit, oil started spurting out the dip stick tube.I guess with the different fittings, the intake was not sucking out enough fumes from the crankcase and enough blowby was getting by the rings to pressurize the block. B This may be your problem too, and you may not have inadvertenly broken the seal between block and oil pan. B What Weber did you put on? B DGV or DCOE? B Both can result in the same leaks occuring. Anyway, to answer your question... B People have changed crank and rod bearings with the engine in the car, so "Yes" you can remove the oil pan. B You might have to turn the crankshaft a bit to let the pan wiggle out - depends on where the connecting rod throws are. B 1/4 to 1/2 a turn should be enough if the pan is hitting the crank when you try to remove the pan. B You may find it easier to lift the engine a bit to get the oil pan out. Once out, clean the surfaces, put on the new gasket with sealer on both sides (one side at a time of course...) and re-install. B I tend to always tighten bolts in a "star pattern". B One on the right front, then one on the left rear, then one on the left front, then one on the right rear and so on. B Slightly snug first, then a little tighter, then fully tight. B I could look up the spec, but loose is loose, tight is tight, and overtight breaks bolts. B As long as you don't just start on one bolt and go around the engine tightening them all the way, you are probably not going to have problems. Then you can run it again and see if new leaks develop. B If not - problem solved! B If there are leaks, we can talk about ideas for eliminating crankcase pressures. Joe Guinan (just back from the Kastner Cup at Road America in Wisconsin) Fremont, NE NASS Member #31 spitfirejoe@email.com > ----- Original Message ----- > Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 21:22:23 -0500 > From: "Dave" > To: > Subject: [Spits] removing oil pan > Message-ID: <519AA3E11B08441E9C13ED4B37072293@Datsun> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > 75 spitfire > > put in a header and a weber > > apparently the clearance between the engine and the frame, even with the > engine mounts loosened, was not quite enough. required a little help. > > not such a good idea; you can see on the header the oil, which of course makes > for extra fun while driving. the leak clearly is right at the joint b > thatbs where the stain starts on the header. > > I figure I need to remove the oil pan, possibly straighten it, and put in a > new gasket. > > any big deal? just drain the oil, unbolt the thing, and then the reverse? > torque in any particular order? anyone know the spec? > > just a little gun shy b when I was a teenager I attempted to remove the > oilpan on a slant 6 chrysler, and found that between the steering rack (I > think) and the frame, the oil pan would not come out. I believe I had to > cancel a date that night because then I had no car. or at least postpone it. > did not put me in her good stead. she married someone else . . . > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Spitfires mailing list > Spitfires@autox.team.net > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/spitfires > > > End of Spitfires Digest, Vol 7, Issue 57 > **************************************** _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Sep 10 15:11:37 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F2D940560 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:11:37 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from m1plsmtpa01-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (m1plsmtpa01-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net [64.202.165.173]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C38EE40515 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2013 14:01:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Datsun ([76.183.214.111]) by m1plsmtpa01-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net with id PY1Z1m00Q2QmmGk01Y1auh; Tue, 10 Sep 2013 13:01:35 -0700 From: "Dave" To: References: <20130909075227.32430@gmx.com> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:01:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [Spits] removing oil pan Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net well, I pulled the pan, cleaned it, painted it, put in a new gasket, and reinstalled. oil is indeed coming out the dip stick tube. all that work may have been for nought! can I relieve that oil pressure somwhere/somehow? I replaced the filter and added 5 qts of oil - was that too much? _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Sep 10 15:26:47 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D9E54055F for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:26:47 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from mail-pa0-f53.google.com (mail-pa0-f53.google.com [209.85.220.53]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72AEC40521 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:21:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-pa0-f53.google.com with SMTP id lb1so8278253pab.26 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2013 14:21:22 -0700 (PDT) d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Q2S6L5yqrwqPVWad9SHVbC+aSYGiLcoawi0l/RZpxlQ=; b=QEGIPHlY4afWgK5gxPUzjXpSa29hY6MiwAGSZr3yHgdNcS1OgYlkoDzZ1GP+FDZaUz hBDvbG37TDSZ9tMGh7hLFRTeUy7XDuBysaBJ18xlNln1qAB74x6ZU7vryqwYfo3jVWQb dVLslHDaJRp2KJ+EeEE3LfGMqMxe2C002000nPBOklUVPIucbtf97tocFHAMc3SWWFz8 4MvVU2W2TecOX9LFT5p6ph/WL+2Vy3pulTpqIz1tUm+KBIX16YkDIJIWI28H9/BcmuO3 RUEHACPDXmRF4PTyPI8QSEx7IC5IBehpAFscemIHRKB3gXm6fzkVBzCAnrx1dDPIffhR byLw== im10mr27660509pbc.5.1378848082161; Tue, 10 Sep 2013 14:21:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.184.99 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Sep 2013 14:21:22 -0700 (PDT) References: <20130909075227.32430@gmx.com> <2836039A8F7442A9BEC2907BE8088439@Datsun> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 17:21:22 -0400 From: Doug Braun To: Spitfire Group Subject: Re: [Spits] removing oil pan Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net How much gas is coming out of the dipstick tube? Try putting a rubber glove or balloon over the tube and see if there is enough gas to inflate it. Also, if you remove the oil filler cap (thus providing another place for gas to exit), does oil stop coming out of the dipstick tube? Doug On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Dave wrote: > well, I pulled the pan, cleaned it, painted it, put in a new gasket, and > reinstalled. oil is indeed coming out the dip stick tube. all that work > may have been for nought! > > can I relieve that oil pressure somwhere/somehow? > > I replaced the filter and added 5 qts of oil - was that too much? > ______________________________**_________________ > > Spitfires@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.**html > Suggested annual donation $11.47 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/** > options/spitfires/doug@**dougbraun.com _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Tue Sep 10 15:52:36 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 379D540534 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:52:36 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from nm36-vm6.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm36-vm6.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [98.136.216.221]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B591E40522 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:51:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [98.137.12.190] by nm36.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Sep 2013 21:51:47 -0000 Received: from [98.136.164.71] by tm11.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Sep 2013 21:51:47 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp233.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Sep 2013 21:51:47 -0000 s=s1024; t=1378849907; bh=ob4qo+tLbwSoZQvr28nNJqGdi/gu6dPgETEIG9H/df0=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Subject:References:From:Mime-Version:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Date:Cc:To:X-Mailer; b=vdPUfnZDBLYwozHivmXPZBVmZw+3kw3eXffGI4N3N3lzUh5ODoFRU8J91aw6GzbnLMdM2uSmVMEjVKr5rrw6Ztd3vqvZd8awg4nfWSg4MALW7euQDYRorJsFJcoxkE0EWZfYSJvRBKJRBZh2nAYCpiY6jHcZf6y7pnoC8A6xm+A= YgFJDyC.Auva649gxVb5D4Riw1ilNsoEAFXSTS9MU7ETtHTGUJtWbN6F1GXn WVQnh_PlZhlqfaE5vn2ZytfA0peRKZ1Ierzqgjga4TOZttxyotKIB.YavJai .Bh0h_Oyz4Menk_BX82qXHcg4P4G7O_5S058iqTPwuGI28hqeaHB99.cq5n1 uVzcvqWDRy92cY_rDuDBAhOS7iZtn_hAGZQkimhdJuLO5_caopJEddNPIcj7 yyraztr7g5vO6SfCdxi_yUosUSZVJk1._gSqAJSYp7LK8vNhGrrVUiM3KpUr UrzsoOg0QW_UrcAjYcMylXitOUYP6IhDUERfA_7TM084Z4hDEg7O7t0UnxNW wM0ud4.d1VF3nwmyVFPA._z8SWfJA.IYNzJqxPAYjwYsdcar7qXae8pgB2as wkYiCGPvbpvFHFNPkcmmbyjyfxsWiABt.hllReiRo935xX6bHJ1UIP4XXm10 xsWcDxrISwrETPwwuq2r7S.q5jF5naCVhyra.O05NgdQNwrJhxs2USTvrXUX AD.OIYzhbDNLRQUKVlqV0cxO5_bkDu6Y7dwW5ltbCjg-- smtp233.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Sep 2013 21:51:47 +0000 UTC References: <20130909075227.32430@gmx.com> <2836039A8F7442A9BEC2907BE8088439@Datsun> From: Michael Altomare Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 17:22:23 -0400 To: Dave Cc: "" Subject: Re: [Spits] removing oil pan Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net When this happened to me on my '77 with the 32/36 DGV Weber, I made a blanking plate for the mechanical fuel pump (I was running an electric fuel pump with a pressure regulator) and added a threaded hose fitting and a hose with a PCV and connected it to the intake manifold. At first I ran it to the carb, but that got the carb too dirty. It ran great when I went to the manifold. Michael from my iPhone 5 On Sep 10, 2013, at 4:01 PM, "Dave" wrote: > well, I pulled the pan, cleaned it, painted it, put in a new gasket, and reinstalled. oil is indeed coming out the dip stick tube. all that work may have been for nought! > > can I relieve that oil pressure somwhere/somehow? > > I replaced the filter and added 5 qts of oil - was that too much? _______________________________________________ > > Spitfires@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $11.47 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spitfires/maltomar@bellsouth.net _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Sep 11 13:54:05 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0772403BB for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 13:54:05 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from qmta09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.96]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7A15403EA for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 13:39:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from omta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.43]) by qmta09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id PotV1m0050vyq2s59vf86D; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 19:39:08 +0000 Received: from sz0079.wc.mail.comcast.net ([68.87.26.138]) by omta05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Pvf81m00H2ymm843Rvf8BN; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 19:39:08 +0000 Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 19:39:08 +0000 (UTC) From: George Parker To: spitfires@autox.team.net s=q20121106; t=1378928348; bh=j6BWZgcxKQZAfWUoI2lQFoU5RgzykUL6fLVcb5Gbs80=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=Ee4fhmABW2XFCK+JwqQgFKkaxz4gvIuIfJHv73kUGzGBVyh9QwaJBv8zEFVxISQwQ 0dZHhu0bIMGZlfL5UEKQ/pf9EgI7oBkdxQTK4FeuWcsbC0oo2FZ64FzrVq47sAP6hb M+J57DjSR2IgaPkXSdRFXCBqdHzDO7AmZHTaqe6VeaG0e9dYIfTIZWKiaGuQARUkAI 7VXMLdu/jlJQ7eMMIX0y6noSX5u0+gosKH1B8Dc6mjRMDjtdOFswsXYLSU4P1lMKs6 YmqukQGiX04PmXzenc7yCYoyX9a/XwQBMW00UE7hczr4ABqEkWw8bd54o8zS+VAbxV LjHbSjvifTCxg== Subject: Re: [Spits] removing oil pan Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Isn't the sump capacity only 4 quarts? Is your charcoal canister (if you have one) clogged?B That could also cause elevated pressure inside the block. My thoughts for today.... v/r, George P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" Subject: Re: [Spits] removing oil pan well, I pulled the pan, cleaned it, painted it, put in a new gasket, and reinstalled. B oil is indeed coming out the dip stick tube. B all that work may have been for nought! can I relieve that oil pressure somwhere/somehow? I replaced the filter and added 5 qts of oil - was that too much? _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Wed Sep 11 14:16:08 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 238644038B for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 14:16:08 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from mail-yh0-f50.google.com (unknown [209.85.213.50]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32F8F4003F for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 14:04:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-yh0-f50.google.com with SMTP id a41so3772427yho.23 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 13:03:37 -0700 (PDT) h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=HmuEPeDvkJJmDYIsTVHfPuInjFlAYlK5Ci237kh30To=; b=BJR9Q6ees52L457NmPUt2Y/mpN8PHvWhvIQEUwxiNBR/DYAHxtqIi4+hG4Pn4PPC3f rsGTs+qn49BYsfjNO6Ot94PqCwzNBX0yYFXya6k3KLrNzVG1hyRvT2HCGfzbAnIwESeM nLKzicPVoUieQjMFbOcjTYVTqtg3P4OC6ZcacDkEVt5cN+U3si4fanETYTVdkBvJ8a9O joOokeVj/AStykQVHxm7hDkb+stmLR4adT+DCaNSQUD8z4MqO1XYHPKSj8/Zt67se6Lp B7muWVFmR4Nsn838N41HocbFlsW68VjmO5/OJrr92RTxL8NwLoGU273oUGfd1uveGln/ RSRw== k35mr2581859yhf.120.1378929817633; Wed, 11 Sep 2013 13:03:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from T431 (c-98-240-146-92.hsd1.mn.comcast.net. [98.240.146.92]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id x29sm34794759yhd.4.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 11 Sep 2013 13:03:37 -0700 (PDT) From: "Bill Gingerich" To: "'George Parker'" , References: <1791551406.2124799.1378928348252.JavaMail.root@sz0079a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 15:03:32 -0500 Thread-Index: Ac6vKKyfa81TJhfZRtKs8BQ6UCJ0mQAAOn8w Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Spits] removing oil pan Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Mine takes about 4.5 qts with a Motorcraft FL1A filter. BillG -----Original Message----- From: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of George Parker Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 2:39 PM To: spitfires@autox.team.net Subject: Re: [Spits] removing oil pan Isn't the sump capacity only 4 quarts? Is your charcoal canister (if you have one) clogged?B That could also cause elevated pressure inside the block. My thoughts for today.... v/r, George P. _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Thu Sep 12 20:11:02 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 162DF40446 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2013 20:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [74.208.4.201]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 701AB403CF for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2013 20:10:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailout-us.gmx.com ([172.19.198.46]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmxus002) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0Lxfkl-1Vzr4N0Aqx-017I8z for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2013 04:10:56 +0200 Received: (qmail 8421 invoked by uid 0); 13 Sep 2013 02:10:55 -0000 Received: from 76.84.97.85 by rms-us021 with HTTP Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 22:10:54 -0400 From: "Joe Guinan" To: spitfires@autox.team.net x-registered: 0 Subject: Re: [Spits] Spitfires Digest, Vol 7, Issue 59 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net It's possible that we are dealing with excessive "blowby" in the engine - combustion gasses getting by worn rings and pressurizing the crankcase. When I put a DGV on my 1980 Spit, it blew a lot of oil out the dipstick onto the header. I drilled a hole into the outer side of the manifold plenum below the carb - there is a spot there that looks like it was designed for it. I tapped this hole and put a hose barb into it. Then I ran a hose from the valve cover vent tube to this hose bar. I put a "T" fitting in the hose and ran another hose up to the charcoal cannisters to vent my fuel tank. Problem solved, but it does introduce oily fumes to the intake, and gums up the valves a bit. A "separator" cannister plumbed into the main hose helps get some of the oily fumes out, and then has to be drained periodically. After rebuilding the engine, I installed twin side draft Dell'Orto DHLA carbs on the car (like the Weber DCOE). I have NO idea if the venting solution I used before is still needed, but I have put two smaller hose barbs into the manifold anyway. There are perfect spots in the two outer manifold branches for these holes. The rest of the plumbing is basically the same. I have photos of these modifications. If you need to see them, let me know. The trick of replacing the fuel pump with an electric one, using a blanking plate to cover the hole in the block, and drilling that plate to accept another hose barb stikes me as a good one. This gives you two separate places to suck the excess pressure out of the block. I've kept the original style mechanical fuel pump so far, but have an electric one to install sometime. Joe Guinan Fremont, NE spitfirejoe@email.com NASS Member #31 (Join the North American Spitfire Sqaudron at http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/nass/) spitfirejoe@email.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:01:29 -0500 > From: "Dave" > To: > Subject: Re: [Spits] removing oil pan > Message-ID: <2836039A8F7442A9BEC2907BE8088439@Datsun> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > well, I pulled the pan, cleaned it, painted it, put in a new gasket, and > reinstalled. oil is indeed coming out the dip stick tube. all that work > may have been for nought! > > can I relieve that oil pressure somwhere/somehow? > > I replaced the filter and added 5 qts of oil - was that too much? Joe Guinan Fremont, NE NASS Member #31 spitfirejoe@email.com (Please trim your NASS Email messages) _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Fri Sep 20 21:18:27 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FDC142A55 for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2013 21:18:27 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from bradakis.com (bradakis.com [166.70.156.35]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E66B427E3; Fri, 20 Sep 2013 19:44:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bradakis.com (bradakis.com [166.70.156.35]) by bradakis.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE428A101D; Fri, 20 Sep 2013 19:44:29 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 19:44:28 -0600 From: Mark J Bradakis User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:22.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/22.0 SeaMonkey/2.19 To: Triumphs , Spitfires@autox.team.net Subject: [Spits] Team.Net changes coming soon Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net The last few days you may have noticed that it might take 2, 3, 4 or more hours for a simple message to one of the Team.Net lists to get posted. There have been some serious network problems happening. I'm hoping that will change soon. On tuesday, Sep. 24th, a local Comcast contractor will be installing broadband cable. After 20+ years of DSL based networking, I'm going to give cable a try. There will be a few days of testing, setting up, getting the hang of it and such, but I hope to have Team.Net running on a network that should be 5 - 10 times faster than the current DSL service. There will be periods of downtime during the switch, the IP addresses involved will be changing and it takes time for these changes to propagate around the world. I'll provide more immediate notice of service interruptions as they come up, try not to leave all you loyal subscribers hanging for too long. It should be a change for the better, we shall see. mjb. _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive