From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Sep 9 06:42:30 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C66A2580728 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 12:09:53 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from wavecable.net (mail1.wavecable.net [76.14.0.240]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 044D525805BF for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 12:09:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.113.232.45] (HELO [192.168.1.13]) by wavecable.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.8) with ESMTP-TLS id 98422043 for spitfires@autox.team.net; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 11:13:30 -0700 From: Dennis Reese Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 11:09:53 -0700 To: Spitfire Group Subject: [Spits] Brake system? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Status: RO I have just finished with new brakes all around on my 75 Spit. Everything seems to be OK, but I have very little to "no" pedal. Goes to the floor and after a couple of pumps the car stops - sort of. What am I missing? New master cylinder? If so, which. Moss and VB both seem to sell the Lucas/TRW variety for something like $200 and another aftermarket thing for about $100 less. Rest assured I am not out on the highway with this thing -- just up and down our 1/2 mile driveway. Any advice is always appreciated. Dennis Reese _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Sep 9 06:42:30 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A98B125807EC for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 12:12:52 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from mail-qg0-f49.google.com (mail-qg0-f49.google.com [209.85.192.49]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B9EC25805BF for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 12:12:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-qg0-f49.google.com with SMTP id f51so621979qge.22 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 11:12:55 -0700 (PDT) h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=MACxGOz7DrvdbKd/2WWNMUKQhwDjCOC2VR0gxUGU/KI=; b=nvnVphlp6B4kuTXQ42YgH3UE2HcNvyPZEGGMEOCUA25vhvPYy3lLm+WdpYHt7pcl5k p4y9EOc0vQwPZCQpw9D+joEz+DSjnvrMLffgturodWmWDtLpXXVa/CfGMWZ+uPRIbvOR ZzF5utaLdK52K6X/G80ysOGIwx87dW2FRO++ZTI0mtp4Iz4cBnvgb2HvIV7vRh9dx9sF J4zk6I/SSD0hWhQqhG+yi3STvPDiMkwJI+hs5XGOh9pceAhHEL8czBDa8fUxPGr5G4fC Eg8qAhAY6/+ceXsYWKikFckIBDcoUzVru0mGJRBUvTrJv+ei+0FMiINVaDcJpqeCzh9j 97wQ== i90mr31268874qgf.56.1403979175579; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 11:12:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.96.63.106 with HTTP; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 11:12:55 -0700 (PDT) References: <3E6954F2-B5E5-4257-BDC6-0AC0A9F6D9F5@wavecable.com> Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 11:12:55 -0700 From: Jody Kerr To: Dennis Reese Cc: Spitfire Group Subject: Re: [Spits] Brake system? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Status: RO Did you check out the PDWA? When I rebuilt the brakes on my mum's '78 I found out the hard way that the rubber in it was too far gone. On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Dennis Reese wrote: > I have just finished with new brakes all around on my 75 Spit. Everything > seems to be OK, but I have very little to "no" pedal. Goes to the floor and > after a couple of pumps the car stops - sort of. What am I missing? New > master > cylinder? If so, which. Moss and VB both seem to sell the Lucas/TRW variety > for something like $200 and another aftermarket thing for about $100 less. > > Rest assured I am not out on the highway with this thing -- just up and > down > our 1/2 mile driveway. > > Any advice is always appreciated. > > Dennis Reese > _______________________________________________ > > Spitfires@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $11.47 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spitfires/jodyfkerr@gmail.com > -- http://www.theymightberacing.com/ 1953 Studebaker Champion 1960 Austin Healey 3000 (BT7L/5479) 1974 Jensen Healey MKII (14291) 1974 Jensen Healey MKII (18854) 1978 Triumph Spitfire (Mum's) 1981 Triumph TR8 1970 MG MGB 1980 Triumph TR7 "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." --Douglas Adams _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Sep 9 06:42:30 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BC3625808F7 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 18:05:16 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from qmta02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.24]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA8912580762 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 18:05:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from omta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.35]) by qmta02.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Kzyk1o0030ldTLk5105GQL; Sun, 29 Jun 2014 00:05:16 +0000 Received: from resmail-ch2-210v.sys.comcast.net ([162.150.48.244]) by omta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id L05G1o00A5G6mwa0105GLM; Sun, 29 Jun 2014 00:05:16 +0000 Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 00:05:16 +0000 (UTC) From: Donald H Locker To: Dennis Reese References: <3E6954F2-B5E5-4257-BDC6-0AC0A9F6D9F5@wavecable.com> Thread-Topic: Brake system? Thread-Index: yX94i+GUeshEO2iid5J7HnbTShcAFw== s=q20140121; t=1404000316; bh=SEjrtr2NoiE3enMrY1Sn61AbRG2vCUsQm21Qd6jyZFM=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=LQK6JomYi/LmHkn0bzZRlMvK+M7vLvZJ8bZBN4H0g0LxkvEVudCWen18fF1y69Od3 59vrnDhIdeS9jqB7/3xKnt3mMoVTEpxMiQAMOl0bjHSrB+hbcR9x1vZ6GV/0pEs696 dy7628TNPuibXjo3QRSvTTrDY9Li2xz7JteBsB2dolehOvAOyXQin1F4cZ6NJEnvpA ehmLBF5++lX8JJ23oVmJn/20IiZH0RNr9cWRMNwyn7h91FNLxq5PJhEDScmlyHAnga C8jsiOSSPj6oPhmM35lLUSX0krfs/0redaLv7Wr2zhYsHkkuQNE7XPKATALYtoraRP r5vlyw4ER35vA== Cc: Spitfire Group Subject: Re: [Spits] Brake system? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Status: RO Hello, Dennis. Brakes are pretty simple systems, so look for fluif [sic] going where it shouldn't, air in the pipes, or oil on the pads/rotors/drums and you will find the problem. Of course, clean and grease-free friction surfaces are a must; from your note, this doesn't sound like an issue as the brakes do work after pumping. If you eventually get some pedal firmness after pumping a bit, the most likely problem is air in the pipes. This requires bleeding to correct. If you've bled from all four corners and still have a soft pedal, I would recommend doing it again, but using a different technique. Use a three-foot/one metre length of clear vinyl tube and raise it high instead of putting it down into a catch bottle. Watch the air in the fluid rise in the tube as you pump the pedal gently. When no more bubbles rise, you can close the bleed screw. Because the fluid in the tube keeps air away from the bleed screw, you don't have to have one person operating the pedal and one working the bleed screw. The presence of the bubbles (to my old eyes, at least) is much more clear with the vinyl tube. It is also possible, if this is a recent rebuild, that the brakes are not yet adjusted. The fronts are self adjusting, and the pads will move to the rotor and establish their operating position with a few real actuations. If the rears are not well-adjusted, they can reduce total performance, but not as much as the front. If both are out, you will have some trouble for a while. Try pumping up the pressure several times and see if the pedal improves before going out for the next drive. Then make sure the rears are correctly adjusted. The PDWA is often blamed for brake problems - if it leaks fluid to the outside world, that is a problem. Otherwise, it really can't affect braking performance. It is a high-pressure differential pressure switch. If the pressure on the front circuit is significantly different that the pressure in the back circuit, the switch turns on the light. The shuttle moves, but DOES NOT change anything in the hydraulics. Hope this helps. Donald. ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dennis Reese" > To: "Spitfire Group" > Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 2:09:53 PM > Subject: [Spits] Brake system? > > I have just finished with new brakes all around on my 75 Spit. Everything > seems to be OK, but I have very little to "no" pedal. Goes to the floor and > after a couple of pumps the car stops - sort of. What am I missing? New > master > cylinder? If so, which. Moss and VB both seem to sell the Lucas/TRW variety > for something like $200 and another aftermarket thing for about $100 less. > > Rest assured I am not out on the highway with this thing -- just up and down > our 1/2 mile driveway. > > Any advice is always appreciated. > > Dennis Reese > _______________________________________________ > > Spitfires@autox.team.net > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html > Suggested annual donation $11.47 > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums > Unsubscribe/Manage: > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spitfires/dhlocker@comcast.net _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Sep 9 06:42:30 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DE062580A18 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 21:44:19 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ie0-f178.google.com (mail-ie0-f178.google.com [209.85.223.178]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3CCB25808F5 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 21:44:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f178.google.com with SMTP id rd18so5579668iec.23 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2014 20:44:21 -0700 (PDT) h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=wxeSj/UfQTVu79tJUKgnoCwV6JAPNRBaagzwOg13LqI=; b=FYzL6C7l3uyWEdlucvREVAvrZItg5WB6n1VGzuz+VFB081K5rqmg9sHrFzwyiTcKAh kN0Uw0CKaeVLVC/HAWKDKFZEs+bgh2rQUDhFHAdX8TNPn7TCzWMweW2F45cg4PqH0b6E 7gQollSW6WbgGjGtcXjai2+evCDru0ve6nN9SQVrvbLKv6UMJtH3nW0Z8DSevNp2HY+J T70CbB6geOlkoSnqLov+ojQL98g1LWmrGvEztzg+9kLadLLxtxbPMAlWyvukwWUQzYV2 ucdJg/E67dfOjFh2WXVPtu8L3wGKTGMM7h14nYXrsLfWgV9dpiKV8XgiSR+/VOhM8pzL PPAQ== Sat, 28 Jun 2014 20:44:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from T431 (c-98-240-146-92.hsd1.mn.comcast.net. [98.240.146.92]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id kb7sm12223468igb.7.2014.06.28.20.44.19 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 28 Jun 2014 20:44:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "Bill Gingerich" To: "'Dennis Reese'" , "'Spitfire Group'" References: <3E6954F2-B5E5-4257-BDC6-0AC0A9F6D9F5@wavecable.com> Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 22:45:54 -0500 Thread-Index: Ac+S/DZzOLZ0yEhWS52Pa5pJnQYrRQATxBfg Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Spits] Brake system? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Status: RO Several others have mentioned re-bleeding the system. One thing that I've used that helps with bleeding is Speedbleeders. www.speedbleeder.com. It's a bleed screw with a check valve built in. The check valve only allows fluid and air out. It won't allow stuff to be sucked back in when the pedal is released. Makes bleeding a one person task. Worth the $8 or so per wheel. Sorry I don't recall which part number, but they know it. Also be sure to bleed in the correct order - furthest wheel first. Do right rear, left rear, right front, left front. BillG '74 Spit -----Original Message----- From: Spitfires [mailto:spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dennis Reese Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 1:10 PM To: Spitfire Group Subject: [Spits] Brake system? I have just finished with new brakes all around on my 75 Spit. Everything seems to be OK, but I have very little to "no" pedal. Goes to the floor and after a couple of pumps the car stops - sort of. What am I missing? New master cylinder? If so, which. Moss and VB both seem to sell the Lucas/TRW variety for something like $200 and another aftermarket thing for about $100 less. Rest assured I am not out on the highway with this thing -- just up and down our 1/2 mile driveway. Any advice is always appreciated. Dennis Reese _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/spitfires/wrgingerich@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Sep 9 06:42:32 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E3AD25849C1 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2014 12:32:53 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from wavecable.net (mail.wavecable.net [76.14.0.235]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BCF92580565 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2014 12:32:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.113.232.45] (HELO [192.168.1.9]) by wavecable.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.8) with ESMTP id 99541683 for spitfires@autox.team.net; Mon, 30 Jun 2014 11:36:33 -0700 From: "Dennis Reese" To: "'Spitfire Group'" Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 11:32:53 -0700 Subject: [Spits] Brakes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Status: RO Consensus seems to be that I need to continue bleeding. So I did -- no air bubbles, same result. While I hate the thought of starting over the only thing that isn't new is the master. Does that sound reasonable? Sent from my MOTOROLA BRAVOb" on Consumer Cellular _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Sep 9 06:42:32 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B470F25849FE for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2014 12:48:44 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from mail-yh0-f41.google.com (mail-yh0-f41.google.com [209.85.213.41]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23DBA2580470 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2014 12:48:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-yh0-f41.google.com with SMTP id z6so5226644yhz.0 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2014 11:48:48 -0700 (PDT) d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=bapkbG2Cqwla4Li0rEfEBviG7stX1Rc2JkE6VImTKNs=; b=UJXHKKJHKjdKKhTCt8Io9sANX1w7nTQgjuFT9IoG0W8PrX52U33PcuhIsvPSC14rii XwGiPJA/NFwyZYgI245gfeDgFUdjWRNuSr/apspdCRyi5JQkFheTnHED275CqFfBghTi pnVZpgkM5tAmeiR4+bV0LUWXj9QBpHc7Judhz4GD2bvzhcBjaGltHpfDzLV9ZbW0RJxP llvLofWQ1kJ1RB2bAIk7oSg4nwcNuZKvXTRrykeG8F6ROLhkxIJu0Z4sAT0Wtykv52SS u6BxzvguAQTNqqaJr07oRASBmAhN8R7ojIbxtCnqqJ7QFcU9ivKvzzaKLb0LFQBAWXrn Lclw== j53mr6249459yhi.139.1404154127962; Mon, 30 Jun 2014 11:48:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.170.62.65 with HTTP; Mon, 30 Jun 2014 11:48:47 -0700 (PDT) References: <8f4f170b-eacb-44bc-b784-7db5420c604f@blur> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 14:48:47 -0400 From: Doug Braun To: Dennis Reese Cc: Spitfire Group Subject: Re: [Spits] Brakes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Status: RO Is the "tipping valve" at the rear of the M/C properly put together? This is open when the pedal is up, to allow the reservoir to communicate with the cylinder, and it closes as soon as you press the pedal, so that pressure can build up in the cylinder. Normally, a bad seal anywhere will allow fluid to leak out onto the ground (or your foot!), but a bad tipping valve will allow the fluid to leak back into the reservoir. In any case, make sure you check EVERYWHERE for a leak! Is fluid being used up as you try to use the brakes? Doug On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Dennis Reese wrote: > Consensus seems to be that I need to continue bleeding. So I did -- no > air bubbles, same result. While I hate the thought of starting over the > only thing that isn't new is the master. Does that sound reasonable? _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive From spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Sun Sep 9 06:42:32 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: mharc@autox.team.net Received: from autox.team.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4E7C25849CE for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2014 13:00:20 -0600 (MDT) Delivered-To: spitfires@autox.team.net Received: from mail-ie0-f181.google.com (mail-ie0-f181.google.com [209.85.223.181]) by autox.team.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D95702580470 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2014 13:00:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f181.google.com with SMTP id y20so7233857ier.12 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2014 12:00:23 -0700 (PDT) h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=Z0bAXjj63oFs7rdbT3fprptMZ+n3nWAJOM0JDXLTUR8=; b=Xw14wJ0mbMBt+Dt8HGjvOxOFuVU4kHI+s0204961bXkvZRyoMbtjtMWLnoMcbRdB25 gKJDFtlgtw69xGcvoeAWTszRIYPpojfK8P+/kT26+ZXIjqR9UlN68wsmnYM647lwUBe+ b8ApMKJYe5p6r9ujFGEXnwwFAjwtgHONTpaJzG9ujACa39h8flYnwMygAYUc+0N9ukoP 1Liepf79AYjoJXe+qCnQpwAsjzmeStG1y3kPdGgLEnyYWnsc8Y3G/JL9lV9N+mGdxHuG HR++ApSvFWK2kS305fuXX/k/YVuB/tnlvSqcc3Er2Jubjv41QIv5SuL2+so5+ilYgvtc YGow== Mon, 30 Jun 2014 12:00:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from T431 (c-98-240-146-92.hsd1.mn.comcast.net. [98.240.146.92]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id t1sm27114975igh.9.2014.06.30.12.00.21 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 30 Jun 2014 12:00:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "Bill Gingerich" To: "'Dennis Reese'" , "'Spitfire Group'" References: <8f4f170b-eacb-44bc-b784-7db5420c604f@blur> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 14:00:58 -0500 thread-index: Ac+Ukb7XqHqomSfuSiSgxhYq6Q74FAAAZtiw Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Spits] Brakes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net Status: RO I'd say try rebuilding the master cylinder. The kits are cheap, and it's not a hard job. BillG -----Original Message----- From: Spitfires [mailto:spitfires-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Dennis Reese Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 1:33 PM To: 'Spitfire Group' Subject: [Spits] Brakes Consensus seems to be that I need to continue bleeding. So I did -- no air bubbles, same result. While I hate the thought of starting over the only thing that isn't new is the master. Does that sound reasonable? _______________________________________________ Spitfires@autox.team.net Archive: http://www.team.net/archive